Miniatures Games - That aren't GW

[Judge Dredd]

Update.

Bought 2 of the books. There are 4 books. Book 4 is ancient and fantasy skirmish games.

The rule book is shockingly slight. Edge cases aren't discussed at all as far as I can tell. Some bits feel contradictory, like 1 action point to move and/or shoot, but later it states it's always an action point to shoot. I assume the latter is right, but it's a weird oversight.

The sci-fi skirmish scenarios book is very good. A couple seem to be very similar, but there's some creative stuff. Two that stand out are "mud glorious mud" where there's a flash flood, and you have to claim islands with walkways between them, and "sewer rats", where there's sewer pipes that enemies pop from randomly.

Still building terrain, but hoping to give it a go soon.


Doesn't look like I mentioned it. Got a couple of games of Gaslands in. Fun game, but it takes longer that I expect.

 

[GrammaNazi]

I've played both Gaslands and 6th ed Car Wars, and prefer Car Wars between the two.

Gaslands has simplified car stats to allow gangs of cars, crazy sci-fi weaponry, template movement ala X-wing, but the big downside for me was the collision rules. The chain reaction of crashes that occur at the starting line could last over an hour. Car A hits car B, causing B to hit car C, causing C to hit D, etc. Not my kind of fun.

Car Wars has complicated vehicles similar to Battletech with armor values and hit points per location, allowing your one car to last for the battle. Movement is done with a template like the Turning Key used in the 1980s version. The big improvement in the new version is weapons & armor are bought using points on a card system. The old days was a number crunching hell using pencils and calculators.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I've played both Gaslands and 6th ed Car Wars, and prefer Car Wars between the two.

I never got to play Car Wars. Either it was before my time, or was never really a thing here. I played a 90s card game with a similar theme that was a lot of fun. Not sure if it was Car Wars related. Does Car Wars use toy cars?

Given that gaslands games can last hours, (I've yet to see a race finish) I'd hate to see how long Car Wars takes to play. It'd be the Twilight Imperium of car combat games.

I've heard Games Workshop made Dark Future back in the 80s, and that had it's fans. That was before my time and never seen it played.

For me the biggest criticism I have of Gaslands so far is that lightweight cars are completely fucked. I've never seen one make it to the first gate. Low hull points and +2 to attacks against them is brutal.

 

[GrammaNazi]

I GM about 10-12 Car Wars events each year at local cons. A game of 4 new players will pick up the rules within an hour and the events always finish under 4 hours. True, it's not quite a beer and pretzel game, but it can be played on a game night and fits perfectly into a con schedule of 3-4 hour game slots. The scale of Car Wars has changed, from the original of paper chits on a 1" graph paper, to the current scale of Matchbox size, around 12mm. Gaslands has the same scale.

My next game interests are of Deep Wars, a 28mm skirmish game on the ocean floor, and Bot Wars, a Transformers-esque skirmish game.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Small update.

Modelling For Advantage reviewed the Konflikt 47 box. There were some surprises. First was the inclusion of a physical rule book. One of the off putting things was I heard they were going with a digital rule book and all you got was a QR code. That seems not to be the case. Maybe it's the army lists that are digital only? Also, no swastikas' on the transfer sheet. Instead they use fictional flags.

And while technically GW, there doesn't seem to be an Age of Sigmar thread. I'm putting serious thought into buying into Spearhead.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Also, no swastikas' on the transfer sheet. Instead they use fictional flags.

If they are all fictional flags then I don’t see a problem. Or a narrative reason, like if they Germans had a coup and the Nazi party got replaced.

And while technically GW, there doesn't seem to be an Age of Sigmar thread. I'm putting serious thought into buying into Spearhead.

It’s popular in my area. Might want to try it out. Also, we might want to merge all the Warhammer threads together.

 

[Judge Dredd]

If they are all fictional flags then I don’t see a problem. Or a narrative reason, like if they Germans had a coup and the Nazi party got replaced.

They're all fictional, as the US flag is like the old Captain America shield. I don't know the lore however.

Also, we might want to merge all the Warhammer threads together.

I didn't know there were more. I'm fine with 40k/GW being it's own thread though. I can imagine games like K47 getting lost in the shuffle.

 

[Dracula]

Picked up a Warcow set with a buddy who was looking for a skirmish game to play, after getting burned out with Age of Sigmar.
The rules are alright, but the minis have flaws
"Song of the Dormant" set which we picked up contains two armies, with models being cast in two different types of resin which I'll call bluecast and greycast.
Models made in bluecast are highly detailed, require little cleaning and are easy to put together. Greycast is somewhat opposite: okay detail but lots of mold lines and needs filling/trimming to glue in place.
What I find odd is that the demon side of the box has all of it's characters are bluecast, with only the cannon fodder troops being greycast


Meanwhile, one of the human character is made in greycast. The halberds on those troops are very fragile.

That paladin on the left is really tricky to glue, because his hammer and hands are a separate part from the body. While model shows here is well connected on it's own, mine was a bit warped and I had to fix that bit with some sprue glue as filament.

Problem gets even worse in the extra pack we got, because all demons are in bluecast while humans are all greycast
One of the sides is clearly getting a better bargain out of this box.


While I cannot say much about the rules, having only played a few crash course games, model wise this is definitely not a set that would attract a lot of beginners looking for an alternative skirmish.

 

[GrammaNazi]

I attended a fairly large historical mini convention this past weekend. Attendance is usually in the 3-5,000 range. The majority of attendees are 40-70 year old white males, with around 20% (a guess) having a military background. Having said that, troons are starting to appear. I saw at least 4 from across the room as they never dress normally. Garish clothes, rainbow armbands, anything that shouts quirky & gay plus the teenage boy voices that always give them away. A 0.1% population is tolerable as long as they're just playing games but once the enbies & troons start barking up about representation and rights, kick them out. They are a minority that won't be missed as we just want to play games.

 

[Potentially Criminal]

Played my first game of Bolt Action two weeks ago, really my first time trying to play some tabletop stuff in 20 years.

So. Much. Fun.



Also, put together the StuG III for BA. Got it ready for the Normandy campaign. Tried to do some battle damage on the left side skirt

 

[Judge Dredd]

Finally got to play One Hour Skirmish Wargames today. Only the barebones rules on a simple scenario, but it played out as I hoped it would.

It could've just been the cards, but guys were surprisingly resilient. I had assumed a 50% chance to hit, and a 50% chance to be fatal would've resulted in a blood bath, A total of 3 casualties in 3 turns. I pulled crap for a moral test and lost the game.


Bit of a rant not related to any specific wargame or line of minis, but I'm getting a little frustrated at the lack of bodies in some sprues. eg. 5 bodies, 40 hears, and 20 weapons on the sprue. Neat. Lots of options, lots of things for the bits box. But I feel as though they could remove 5 heads and maybe a couple of weapons to get an extra body or two, bumping the model count from 20 a box to 28. Or weapon options should be more useful. I don't know, I just get a little salty when I have four sprues and a sixth of each sprue is nonsense I can't use like a flare gun, a cigarette, and 4 right hands with pistols and knives but only 1 left hand. There are exceptions, like Stargrave Crew being full of hands holding computers, spanners, bags, etc. But that's a feature of that kit, not a bug.


I bought the K47 starter set. Not read the rules yet or full lore yet. I have built one guy so far.

Related to the above, I think a sprue has enough bits to build 6-8 guys, but only 3 torsos. I'm a little salty, but from what I understand they're a hyper elite unit, and because they're in every Axis discount box you supposedly end up dozens of them pretty quick if you collect Axis.

If they are all fictional flags then I don’t see a problem. Or a narrative reason, like if they Germans had a coup and the Nazi party got replaced.

Turns out it's a bit of both.

In the lore, nazis have been overthrown by a secret society called The Green Vault. According to Mordian Glory this was done in part to sell the game in mainstream stores, but also as a way to justify mirror matches as nazi remnants are still running around.

The Soviet Block starter army has been delayed, officially due to a manufacturing issue. Though everyone I talked to about it thinks it's because of things happening with the Ukraine war.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Another update.

Another picture, better this time. The models look more shiny than they do in RL, but the colours and focus are better, that's the main thing.

Using the worst Stahltuper pose to test the colour scheme. Originally I painted him in german infantry/vehicle colours, but while it fit the WW2 aesthetic, it was a bit bland. This silver and blue paint job looks much more snazzy, but loses a lot of weird war 2 mood. I really like the grey scheme on the box, but that would mean using paints instead of markers. I do have some speed paints, so will try them. But any suggestions and ideas welcome.

The two ladies are from Stargrave Mercenaries 2 kit. I like how the cat girl came out (it's just base colours). The one in the middle you can't see properly, but I liked how they are coming along with the tan and green pilot suit with white padding. Still need to choose a colour for gloves, gun, and boots, and paint the face. No real plan for these, but might use them as mech pilots for my 40k knights, objective markers (rescue the pilot), or as "second in command" for One Hour Skirmish Wargames.

 

[ShitLurker]

Picked up a Warcow

I was curious as well. The shit material on most of the models was a huge letdown and most of the games I've played have been pretty unenjoyable. I'll likely sell it all and file it as a loss.

To my absolute bafflement, I've gotten back into warmachine. Since SFG took over it seems to be going in the right direction and it's for the most part still the game I loved in Mk1 and Mk2.

On the opposite side, Malifaux 4th seems to have landed like a wet fart. Nobody seems to particularly care and the couple of games I tried were still taking way too long.

In more neutral, Kings of War is blueballing everyone with it's 4th editiom which should be drooping soonish. Wouldn't mind getting back into it though warmachine is my current jam.

 

[Dracula]

I was curious as well. The shit material on most of the models was a huge letdown and most of the games I've played have been pretty unenjoyable. I'll likely sell it all and file it as a loss.

After playing more games and the full intro campaign, I fully agree that Warcrow is overall a failure.

1. After taking a closer look, I realized that the blue cast material used for some of the models is just 3D-printed resin.
2. The rules in the campaign book are extremely limited, with a large chunk wasted on a fictional scenario describing various actions. I’d rather have a clear breakdown of how the game actually plays and a glossary at the back explaining abilities and how they work.
3. Many rules are poorly translated from Spanish. This is especially bad with the printed unit cards, where some stats still use Spanish abbreviations, and we had no idea how to interpret them without looking it up online.
4. When we tried to look up the rules online, all we found was version 1.5, with no errata for 1.0. It looks like the devs treat rule updates like software patches. This basically invalidates the printed rulebook that comes in the box.
5. All dice and measurements are custom, which I generally dislike. Their custom measuring system is especially annoying compared to simply using metric or imperial.
6. The Feudals faction intro warband includes a wizard hero with a magic missile spell. She can overcast it to nearly double the range and make defending against it borderline impossible. Combined with the low health of heroes and troops and the ability to activate the same character again in the same round, she becomes a sniper who can clear the board before anyone can react. This is basic ‘what not to include in a beginner game’ territory.

Overall, it’s a very lethal skirmish game with too many rules for too few models, and the models themselves are subpar despite being sold at a premium. Once the astroturfing dies down, the game will too.

I’ve decided to get back to Warcry. That game is much better balanced for a 5–10 model skirmish.

 

[ShitLurker]

After playing more games and the full intro campaign, I fully agree that Warcrow is overall a failure.

Agreed with most of your points. And you didn't seem to notice some of the more retarded eccentricities in the rulebook, like how forests work like spheres of darkness in this game. You can't see ANYTHING inside a forest, so 2 models inside cannot see each other, and they are so stubborn in keeping it this way, that one of the Faq/errata points was to allow models that are base to base to always see each other to avoid a unit becoming retarded by being moved into a forest. Also, LoS is asymmetric in the worst way possible, your leader guy is the only relevant model when attacking, so spreading out your dudes has zero benefit outside of body blocking since your charge and movement and range all is done through the leader, BUT line of sight and targeting requires to see half or more of the target unit and any model is fine. So suddenly, you have the leader poking their head from behind a house while the rest of the unit is behind it, that fucker can shoot anything it sees, but it cannot be shot because you only see the leader, hence 1 model out of a 4 man, so sucks to be you. It has that usual first edition jank but with a reek of "I do things this way to be special!". The custom dice at least add things to the game proper, and the turn wheel is a novel concept that I would like other games to explore, but the measurements with their made up bullshit our outright aids.

Also, this is just my tism speaking, but

This thing being called a rock troll instead of a rock golem or construct still drives me up a wall. It's another "oooh ooooh!, You expected a troll when I called it a troll, but in MY world, this is a Troll!". Specially when so much of the range looks "just fine" at best, like if they have no spark or charm even though they are competently made.

 

[Dracula]

Agreed with most of your points. And you didn't seem to notice some of the more retarded eccentricities in the rulebook, like how forests work like spheres of darkness in this game. You can't see ANYTHING inside a forest, so 2 models inside cannot see each other, and they are so stubborn in keeping it this way, that one of the Faq/errata points was to allow models that are base to base to always see each other to avoid a unit becoming retarded by being moved into a forest. Also, LoS is asymmetric in the worst way possible, your leader guy is the only relevant model when attacking, so spreading out your dudes has zero benefit outside of body blocking since your charge and movement and range all is done through the leader, BUT line of sight and targeting requires to see half or more of the target unit and any model is fine. So suddenly, you have the leader poking their head from behind a house while the rest of the unit is behind it, that fucker can shoot anything it sees, but it cannot be shot because you only see the leader, hence 1 model out of a 4 man, so sucks to be you. It has that usual first edition jank but with a reek of "I do things this way to be special!". The custom dice at least add things to the game proper, and the turn wheel is a novel concept that I would like other games to explore, but the measurements with their made up bullshit our outright aids.

Also, this is just my tism speaking, but
View attachment 8282170
This thing being called a rock troll instead of a rock golem or construct still drives me up a wall. It's another "oooh ooooh!, You expected a troll when I called it a troll, but in MY world, this is a Troll!". Specially when so much of the range looks "just fine" at best, like if they have no spark or charm even though they are competently made.

There are a lot of skirmish games out there. You’re delusional if you think people will invest in you again after a poor first impression.

As for the troll, I suspect it’s a mistranslation from Spanish. Check the product description on their official store and tell me it doesn't read like someone copy pasting the text through a translator without a review.
Another product I read earlier raised similar suspicions. There are multiple mentions of some “stain” that the character can use for buffs, which is not a thing in the game. “Tinge,” however, certainly is. So whatever tool was used picked the wrong synonym, and no one bothered to check.

How Corvus Belli can afford to pay multiple wargame channels to shill their game but can’t hire a decent translator is beyond me.

 

[Judge Dredd]

How Corvus Belli can afford to pay multiple wargame channels to shill their game but can’t hire a decent translator is beyond me.

Because a box of 6 guys is like £80 or some insane number. Just checked my FLGS, and a box of infinity figures is on sale. £105 for a squad of 10, down from £130. And £55 for a 6 man squad. There is one hero I seriously considered, but luckily for my wallet I've not seen them in the wild, and they seem to be out of print.


As bad as GW prices are, seeing "cheap" games like Star Wars Legion, Infinity and Fallout being almost twice the price makes me wonder if there's some currency conversion bullshit going on.



On a completely unrelated topic. What are kiwi's take on HeroScape. Asking Brits gets a "what the fuck is heroscape" but when I ask an American they fall into a nostalgic overdose and are unreachable for the day.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It finally happened. Ended up with a pile of shame.

Long story short. Me and a friend were slowing building our bolt action armies. He decided he wanted to get into Warhammer 40k Combat Patrol, so I switched gears to focus on that (knights was my faction of choice), then just recently he finished his bolt action army and wants me to finish mine so we can play.

Problem is I had a bunch of German infantry and not much else. I ended up buying a King Tiger and a Panther. Overkill on reflection, but I have them now, might as well make the most of them.


So my pile of shame is:
The Victrix late war germans kit, while value for money if you want teams and characters, as there's 4 snipers, a mortal team, a MMG team, a medic, a spotter, and likely more I forget. The kit itself is unfun. I hate working with it. The layout make no sense (such as heads that are one peice, and then one that is cut in half above the eyes and has to be glued together. Why?) and there's a lot of fiddly bits like "attach this piece that is just a guys forearm, and with no way to get the alignment right".

Some of a warlord german infantry box. Not sure how to build it as the special weapons are cool but I'm not sure how to run them. eg. There's a couple of anti-tank rifles, but the only options that can take them (snipers and gun teams) don't match the running poses of the models.

Warlord King Tiger and Panther. (I wanted an armoured car instead of a panther but they had none in stock.)

40k knight armatures. One is mostly painted and partially built.

A box of WGA Eisenkern (basically star wars stormtroopers or killzone hellgast)

A box of Stargrave Scavengers. This one doesn't really count as I bought it as a bits collection.

Most of the Konflikt 47 starter box.

40k Kill Team starter box. I keep running into delays on this one due in part to perfectionism.


My immediate plan is as follows.
Hammer out the Bolt Action/K47 stuff. First, write up the list. My friend's America list is about 1300-1500 points depending on options. A single King Tiger is a third of that.

Once the warlord and wga infantry are built, it should be trivial to production line the paint job. Sprayer em, slap some marker on the guns, helmets, and faces, wash, varnish, done. Tabletop ready.

Build and paint the vehicles. I'd like to try the oil wash technique, but got to knock out the pile of shame. There can be other vehicles, or I can leave them basecoated and finish later.

Then back to the knights, or finishing off the K47 starter set so we can play with rift units.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Apologies for the triple, but something about Konflikt 47's slow rise in popularity I want to discuss.

I don't know if it's selection bias, but I notice some 40k YouTubers jumping on the bandwagon, while kits are slowly starting to appear in model shops.

With this the fun police have appeared. Pleading that YouTubers talk about Trench Crusade instead, and "helpfully pointing out" that the game has nazis as a playable faction and that's problematic. (It doesn't and they aren't.)

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

has nazis as a playable faction and that's problematic. (It doesn't and they aren't.)

hellish rapists (they explicitly mention rape as a major thing the hell soldiers can do to be turned into the fancy hell troopers) are kosher but nazis are a bridge too far in devilry