- Joined
- May 9, 2017
I don't think he's likely to be mugged or burgled by children.
Most cost-effective gun for self-defense (2022 edition) - Pew-pew for me and you-you
- Thread starter NoReturn
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2015
Go to the range and shoot a standard body target at 5-7 yards. if you can stay within the lines with a .45, that is your caliber. If you can't do it with a .45 but you can do it with a 9mm, that is your caliber. If you can't get them all in then try .380. Only if you've absolutely fucked the dog with a .380, like you get less than half in the body then try it with a .22.
Now pick your gun. Shoot everything the range has to offer in your caliber. Ranges are usually pretty good about having middle-of-the-road guns. If you are left handed then only shoot guns that have ambidextrous magazine ejectors and slide releases. Feel it in your hand. Is there a dove-tail resting on the web of your hand that gives it a really nice feel? is your ring finger or pinky falling off the gun uncomfortably? Do you notice a little glow on the front or rear sights that is helping you line up your shot? How long is the trigger pull? can you slowly release a pulled trigger and feel a click before coming all the way back out? Practice firing the gun again from that clicking noise rather than letting the trigger come all the way back forward.
Lastly, unload each gun and press it up against your appendix and sit down as if it were in a holster and bend this way and that. Press it against your hip and bend this way and that. Can you see yourself having that thing on you all day? What are you most likely to carry every day for hours at a time and what would you consider a hassle and leave in the drawer?
The guns that meets most, or all of these criteria are the right guns for you. The cheaper of the ones that fit these criteria are the most cost-effective. Buy that model, preferably with a self-luminous sights upgrade. If you can afford one with the picatinny rail, get that too. After that, get the version that is optics-ready in case you want to spring for a reflex sight.
Then buy a box of Hornaday Critical Defense ammo or something with similar grains and hollow-point in your caliber. Keep your gun loaded with that and only take it out when you go to the range to shoot cheap rounds. If you live in a humid area, shoot your critical defense ammo every 5 years or so and buy a new box, otherwise you can probably keep it around for 10 years.
The only exception this rule that I would make is if you have a .22. I would absolutely 100% only buy a .22 revolver. I've personally experienced several instances where a .22 round has been unable to generate enough force to push the slide back all the way and eject the expended cartridge. This is from personal hearsay, but a .22 semi-auto would be my weapon of last resort.
Now pick your gun. Shoot everything the range has to offer in your caliber. Ranges are usually pretty good about having middle-of-the-road guns. If you are left handed then only shoot guns that have ambidextrous magazine ejectors and slide releases. Feel it in your hand. Is there a dove-tail resting on the web of your hand that gives it a really nice feel? is your ring finger or pinky falling off the gun uncomfortably? Do you notice a little glow on the front or rear sights that is helping you line up your shot? How long is the trigger pull? can you slowly release a pulled trigger and feel a click before coming all the way back out? Practice firing the gun again from that clicking noise rather than letting the trigger come all the way back forward.
Lastly, unload each gun and press it up against your appendix and sit down as if it were in a holster and bend this way and that. Press it against your hip and bend this way and that. Can you see yourself having that thing on you all day? What are you most likely to carry every day for hours at a time and what would you consider a hassle and leave in the drawer?
The guns that meets most, or all of these criteria are the right guns for you. The cheaper of the ones that fit these criteria are the most cost-effective. Buy that model, preferably with a self-luminous sights upgrade. If you can afford one with the picatinny rail, get that too. After that, get the version that is optics-ready in case you want to spring for a reflex sight.
Then buy a box of Hornaday Critical Defense ammo or something with similar grains and hollow-point in your caliber. Keep your gun loaded with that and only take it out when you go to the range to shoot cheap rounds. If you live in a humid area, shoot your critical defense ammo every 5 years or so and buy a new box, otherwise you can probably keep it around for 10 years.
The only exception this rule that I would make is if you have a .22. I would absolutely 100% only buy a .22 revolver. I've personally experienced several instances where a .22 round has been unable to generate enough force to push the slide back all the way and eject the expended cartridge. This is from personal hearsay, but a .22 semi-auto would be my weapon of last resort.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
It's a personal thing, but even if I don't get to the range every month (And with ammo prices these days, I certainly don't!), I strip and clean my carry gun every month or two. I carry tucked IWB, and it accumulates a slow crust of dead skin, hair, lint, and gods knows what else. I know that realistically it's not a problem, it just makes me feel better.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
I personally have a Makarov PM for everyday carry, with double-stack magazines loaded with Hornady Critical Defense HP (95gr). One mag in the gun with two spares. Is it "cheap"? Well, my Makarov was $449 as a brand new Arsenal Bulgaria model, since milsurp Makarovs are not that common anymore, so I would say no. But 9x18mm is basically identical to .380ACP when it comes to the ballistics, and the Makarov PM itself is a very simple and rugged gun with a manual safety to boot.
My biggest complaint is that the magazine release is a knob you have to slide back to release the magazine...which is also at the bottom of the grip, so you're basically releasing/pulling the magazine out in one motion instead of hitting a button to drop the mag.
Honestly, my personal advice? Don't skimp out on price. Sure, you don't have to go Full Geardo like Lucas Botkin, but to a certain extent you are getting what you pay for.
For a handgun, like almost everyone else has said here, a Glock 19 is a solid choice. 9x19mm is perhaps the most common self defense round and you have a wide selection of ammunition types to choose from.
For a long gun, I'd advise an AR-15. There's some good ARs that can be had for less than $600, and they're easy to learn to shoot with while having lots of upgrade potential to suit your specific needs, not to mention the ammunition supply is very plentiful.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you, personally, like to shoot. What feels comfortable in your hands? What feels comfortable on your hip? You can have a top of the line customized HK VP9, but if you don't like to shoot it and you leave it in the drawer, what's the damn point in having it?
My biggest complaint is that the magazine release is a knob you have to slide back to release the magazine...which is also at the bottom of the grip, so you're basically releasing/pulling the magazine out in one motion instead of hitting a button to drop the mag.
Honestly, my personal advice? Don't skimp out on price. Sure, you don't have to go Full Geardo like Lucas Botkin, but to a certain extent you are getting what you pay for.
For a handgun, like almost everyone else has said here, a Glock 19 is a solid choice. 9x19mm is perhaps the most common self defense round and you have a wide selection of ammunition types to choose from.
For a long gun, I'd advise an AR-15. There's some good ARs that can be had for less than $600, and they're easy to learn to shoot with while having lots of upgrade potential to suit your specific needs, not to mention the ammunition supply is very plentiful.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you, personally, like to shoot. What feels comfortable in your hands? What feels comfortable on your hip? You can have a top of the line customized HK VP9, but if you don't like to shoot it and you leave it in the drawer, what's the damn point in having it?
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
Well, not everyone is going to become a shooter. Some people just want a gun that they can shoot, in an emergency. That's not me, but it's a valid position to hold, as long as they're willing to train up to a point that they aren't a danger to themselves and those around them. So for people like that, a Hi-Point or something is fine.
Me, I've Barbied up my daily carry gun (S&W .45 Shield) with Hogue grips, a green laser/led flashlight combo, and completely replaced the trigger and sear spring with a kit from Apex Tactical. I keep meaning to replace the iron sights with Tritium-fiber optics, but there's always something more important to spend another ~$150 on. But I love shooting it, I just wish .45 ammo wasn't so damned expensive.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
Oh I understand that, I was just giving my 0.02₽, and that is a valid position to take. I, personally, am a firearms enthusiast (have been since I was 9 and got my first .22), but I understand that most people are not, and that most people probably aren't willing to drop over $1,200 like I did on an AKM I customized for my own needs.
I know one Kiwi posted that memed-on video of Randy Stair, and I say this to all prospective first-time gun buyers/owners as a result:
PLEASE get good training from a reputable instructor and take time to go to the range to train yourself. PLEASE don't be an unsafe assclown like him. Not only can good training mean the difference between you living or dying if worst comes to worst, but it can also help prevent a negligent discharge or an accidental injury to someone else. I lucked out growing up with a father and uncle who were both military and law enforcement who did classes in their spare time, but good instruction is worth spending the money on. You don't have to be Larry Vickers or Matt Best, but at least be a safe and responsible shooter who has a good handle on the basics.
Like this retro HK advertisement:
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- Joined
- May 5, 2022
One thing I should mention about the AR builds.
You gotta fire them. I've seen folks with a cheap build from parts only and it jams every few rounds. I'd rather trust a Styer AUG with new mags (they had feed issues) rather than a shoddily parted AR that wasn't fired.
Cheapest semi-auto .308 I can think of would be a CETME-C parts kit + Barrel + DIY receiver. You will have to wield though so you can fuck up the alignment catastrophically...
Side note, 9x18 firearms can be converted to .380. Pm (Makarov) is a good example. Unfortunately they are 8 rounds unless you somehow managed to bribe your way into (or design your own) Pmm.
For bullpups you're choices:
AUG
VHS
Tavor
Tavor takes STANAG mags where the AUG that takes NATO sucks ass and feels like pulling a sponge for a trigger, that should be taken into consideration when using the AUG (Mags are expensive).
You gotta fire them. I've seen folks with a cheap build from parts only and it jams every few rounds. I'd rather trust a Styer AUG with new mags (they had feed issues) rather than a shoddily parted AR that wasn't fired.
I would kill for a proper 74 kit in 5.45. Even more for a STG-942. A friends dad got an import one for 200 USD in a pawn shop in the 90s.
Cheapest semi-auto .308 I can think of would be a CETME-C parts kit + Barrel + DIY receiver. You will have to wield though so you can fuck up the alignment catastrophically...
Side note, 9x18 firearms can be converted to .380. Pm (Makarov) is a good example. Unfortunately they are 8 rounds unless you somehow managed to bribe your way into (or design your own) Pmm.
For bullpups you're choices:
AUG
VHS
Tavor
Tavor takes STANAG mags where the AUG that takes NATO sucks ass and feels like pulling a sponge for a trigger, that should be taken into consideration when using the AUG (Mags are expensive).
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
I have not tried to fit a double-stack in mine yet, but the magwell seems a little wider than a single-stack, I might order a double-stack to see if its compatible with my Mak.
I wouldn't use a -74 or any 5.45x39mm gun unless I was over in Eastern Europe and 7.62x39mm is somehow rare. It's just inferior to 5.56x45mm, but admittedly I am far more familiar with the AK platform than the AR.
Just don't get a bullpup, they are NOT worth it for the average civilian...
...which your average civilian for sure doesn't know how to weld.
I advise AGAINST parts kits unless you know what you are doing in regards to gunsmithing (and I don't). It's one thing to swap out the pistol grip/handguard/buttstock on an AR or AK, it's another to build a gun together from parts. You get precisely one chance to fuck up and you have quite possibly made an IED that will fuck your face, chest, and arms up.
- Joined
- May 5, 2022
I wanted an AK-74 purely to add to my collection man.
Neither is a pump action shotgun. I know of cases where they choked the pump and it jammed. Bullpups are used differently and confer certain advantages/disadvantages. Part of the reason they were not widely adopted is because it requires more to learn due to the complexity of the design (AUG A1 reloads comes to mind), but you are more maneuverable.
Give someone with critical thinking skills and he can do most things in gunsmithing. I always test fired my builds with a huge plexiglass shield, a string, and bench vise... Hardest one (aside from designing from scratch one) would be designing a replacement select-fire autosear for a semiautomatic only imho but that's illegal for most of us unless you pay the SOT......
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2021
Buy a sex robot and attach a claymore inside the pussy. Use it as a distraction by either having the robber fuck it or just shoot it when the robber picks it up. For gun just get a shotgun honestly.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
Fair enough. I have a Lee-Enfield and a
Like I said earlier dude, whatever works best for you is what you need to aim for. We all have our preferences, and there ain't no shame in them.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2021
Guns, especially guns that are used for self-defense, are an extremely personal thing. Where do you live? In the methlands or are you bugmanning it up in the city? How much can you afford to shoot it in training? What size are your hands? All of these are very relevant questions that you have to answer for yourself.
Personally I would never recommend .22 for self defense if there was another option. It has nothing to do with size or power; as others have said, you don't see anyone lining up to get shot by a .22. Its the reliability of the rimfire cartridge that is the big disqualifier. I have shot a LOT of .22, a lot of that at rimfire competitions. Rimfire competitions are hilarious, because rimfire makes it a point to fuck your day up. The stuff just isn't nearly as reliable as the trashiest centerfire cartridge out there. Sucks, but it is what it is.
So I'd say this. If you are in the boonies, look into a shotgun. Biden memes aside, a shotgun is generally a pretty good and cheap option.
If you're in an urban area, glocks are good. 9mm. I'd also consider a revolver. .38 special +P is a nasty boi. Shotguns and shit like AR/AKs are out of the question, not just because you can and likely will poke holes in your neighbors house and it would be a bitch to point that thing around corners in your house; but also because urban DA's will have a bigger incentive to go hard after you if you shoot a dindu on his way to becoming an engineer or doctor with an "assault weapon".
Above all - train with your weapon. Put in the time to get familiar with it before you buy any ammo. Carry that shit around with you, disassemble it, assemble it, dry fire it (most new guns should be ok with that), make it so it is a part of your body. This is a very personal weapon that you are relying on to save your life or others lives, why would you not get intimately familiar with it? Then go and put 500 rounds through it at a range of some kind, at minimum. Do this over a period of a month so it gets tattooed inside your skull.
Personally I would never recommend .22 for self defense if there was another option. It has nothing to do with size or power; as others have said, you don't see anyone lining up to get shot by a .22. Its the reliability of the rimfire cartridge that is the big disqualifier. I have shot a LOT of .22, a lot of that at rimfire competitions. Rimfire competitions are hilarious, because rimfire makes it a point to fuck your day up. The stuff just isn't nearly as reliable as the trashiest centerfire cartridge out there. Sucks, but it is what it is.
So I'd say this. If you are in the boonies, look into a shotgun. Biden memes aside, a shotgun is generally a pretty good and cheap option.
If you're in an urban area, glocks are good. 9mm. I'd also consider a revolver. .38 special +P is a nasty boi. Shotguns and shit like AR/AKs are out of the question, not just because you can and likely will poke holes in your neighbors house and it would be a bitch to point that thing around corners in your house; but also because urban DA's will have a bigger incentive to go hard after you if you shoot a dindu on his way to becoming an engineer or doctor with an "assault weapon".
Above all - train with your weapon. Put in the time to get familiar with it before you buy any ammo. Carry that shit around with you, disassemble it, assemble it, dry fire it (most new guns should be ok with that), make it so it is a part of your body. This is a very personal weapon that you are relying on to save your life or others lives, why would you not get intimately familiar with it? Then go and put 500 rounds through it at a range of some kind, at minimum. Do this over a period of a month so it gets tattooed inside your skull.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2014
TheGoodNamesHaveBeenTaken
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2022
If you possibly can, try as many different brands and types as you can before you buy.
I see they are quite popular here in the comments but the Glock is not universally accepted as the be all/ end all gun for everyone.
I have seen comments disparaging the quality of Ruger and S&W.
All I can say is that doesn't match the experiences of my peer group.
Every company makes a few duds.
Both Ruger and S&W stand behind what they sell.
If you go for a Taurus, buy new.
If you are the original owner the gun comes with a life time warranty.
If you buy it used, it does not.
I don't know if you are considering concealed carry so I will spoiler the rest of this.
It has some thoughts about choices for a carry gun if anyone cares.
I see they are quite popular here in the comments but the Glock is not universally accepted as the be all/ end all gun for everyone.
I have seen comments disparaging the quality of Ruger and S&W.
All I can say is that doesn't match the experiences of my peer group.
Every company makes a few duds.
Both Ruger and S&W stand behind what they sell.
If you go for a Taurus, buy new.
If you are the original owner the gun comes with a life time warranty.
If you buy it used, it does not.
I don't know if you are considering concealed carry so I will spoiler the rest of this.
It has some thoughts about choices for a carry gun if anyone cares.
There is a good rule of thumb that the lighter, smaller, easier to conceal and carry guns will be harder to shoot well.
Then there is another rule that the mouse gun in your pocket that you actually carry will be worth more to you in a gunfight than the .45 that you left in your dresser becase it is too big of a hassle to carry.
This isn't to say with a good holster you can't carry a .45.
This is somthing else to keep in mind, if you want to conceal carry don't be surprised if you wind up spending way more than you thought before you wind up with a holster set up you like.
If they are honest most every gun enthusiast has the "box of holsters".
Holsters that looked great in the shop or sounded cool on line but just didn't work out for one reason or another.
Most of mine are super cheap ones I tried when I first got my carry license.
However I have a few inexpensive holsters I really like and some higher price ones I rarely if ever use.
I tend towards leather.
I know Kydex (a thin plastic you can mold with a hair dryer) is popular now with he tacti-cool kids.
I don't know anyone who has had good luck with nylon and Velcro.
I await my autistic ratings becase no one said anything about carrying.
However once you make the jump over in to gun owner I suspect you start feeling good about your ability to defend yourself and family if God forbid you should ever have need to.
I suspect it wont take long for the wheels to start turning and for you to think "Well I'm covered if somthing happens at home. But what about the rest of the day?"
If you are in a state that actually recognizes the full 2nd Amendment (the right to keep & bear arms) and allows you to do this without jumping through too many hoops* I urge you to consider it.
If you are considering or recently have become a gun owner, congratulations!
I know ammo and range time are expensive and everyone is busy but a gun is not a magic amulet that protects you from evil.
If you are a new shooter take a class and hang out with some experienced shooters if you know any.
I still suggest taking a class becase "experienced" doesn't always mean safe.
Use eye and ear protection with every shot you take (that can be ignored in a true self defense situation).
Best of luck.
Feel free to message me and I would pass on what little knowledge I have or point you in the direction to find an answer from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
*My state that maintains requiring a photo ID is too much of a restriction on voting requires a $150 application fee and for you to have taken a 16 hour class (prices vary on that) before you can bear arms outside your home.
They also make you pay for a mother may I card before you can buy a gun or ammo.
Some rights are more equal than others apparently.
Then there is another rule that the mouse gun in your pocket that you actually carry will be worth more to you in a gunfight than the .45 that you left in your dresser becase it is too big of a hassle to carry.
This isn't to say with a good holster you can't carry a .45.
This is somthing else to keep in mind, if you want to conceal carry don't be surprised if you wind up spending way more than you thought before you wind up with a holster set up you like.
If they are honest most every gun enthusiast has the "box of holsters".
Holsters that looked great in the shop or sounded cool on line but just didn't work out for one reason or another.
Most of mine are super cheap ones I tried when I first got my carry license.
However I have a few inexpensive holsters I really like and some higher price ones I rarely if ever use.
I tend towards leather.
I know Kydex (a thin plastic you can mold with a hair dryer) is popular now with he tacti-cool kids.
I don't know anyone who has had good luck with nylon and Velcro.
I await my autistic ratings becase no one said anything about carrying.
However once you make the jump over in to gun owner I suspect you start feeling good about your ability to defend yourself and family if God forbid you should ever have need to.
I suspect it wont take long for the wheels to start turning and for you to think "Well I'm covered if somthing happens at home. But what about the rest of the day?"
If you are in a state that actually recognizes the full 2nd Amendment (the right to keep & bear arms) and allows you to do this without jumping through too many hoops* I urge you to consider it.
If you are considering or recently have become a gun owner, congratulations!
I know ammo and range time are expensive and everyone is busy but a gun is not a magic amulet that protects you from evil.
If you are a new shooter take a class and hang out with some experienced shooters if you know any.
I still suggest taking a class becase "experienced" doesn't always mean safe.
Use eye and ear protection with every shot you take (that can be ignored in a true self defense situation).
Best of luck.
Feel free to message me and I would pass on what little knowledge I have or point you in the direction to find an answer from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
*My state that maintains requiring a photo ID is too much of a restriction on voting requires a $150 application fee and for you to have taken a 16 hour class (prices vary on that) before you can bear arms outside your home.
They also make you pay for a mother may I card before you can buy a gun or ammo.
Some rights are more equal than others apparently.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2018
If your unfamiliar with firearms then get a .22 for practice and get some training. There's 1,000's of classes for just about everything and most are at least somewhat good so do some research. Training will also help you chose what gun will suit you.
As for a recommendation, a Glock of any flavor will be fine. People will get into massive arguments over caliber but most of the popular ones are will do the job. You can get a used one for a decent price and unlike cars used guns aren't really a problem. Glock's more so as they are really durable. I'd also get a basic bitch AR and pump shotgun but the pistol is far more important for self defense.
As for a recommendation, a Glock of any flavor will be fine. People will get into massive arguments over caliber but most of the popular ones are will do the job. You can get a used one for a decent price and unlike cars used guns aren't really a problem. Glock's more so as they are really durable. I'd also get a basic bitch AR and pump shotgun but the pistol is far more important for self defense.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2014
A lot of good suggestions in this thread, but I see an element overlooked: bystanders. How close you live to other people should be the first thing on your mind, not necessarily price. If you live in a house, a handgun may be safe to use without worrying about hitting your neighbors, but a 22 would not only go through your walls if you miss, but also the house next to yours. If you hit anyone besides the attacker, you will go to jail for negligent discharge. Be careful.
If you live near other people, such as in an apartment, a pump-action shotgun with birdshot would best prevent other people from being killed by your self-defense. I think it will maim the attacker enough to neutralize the threat. Buckshot and slugs are not good options for this.
If you live near other people, such as in an apartment, a pump-action shotgun with birdshot would best prevent other people from being killed by your self-defense. I think it will maim the attacker enough to neutralize the threat. Buckshot and slugs are not good options for this.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
Birdshot is an excellent way to give your attacker something to brag about after he kills you.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2014
Well, then use a powerful handgun and hope it doesn’t hit anyone in a crowded living situation, that’s up to you to assume that risk. People were overlooking the obvious so i said something.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2022
If you are worried about neighbors use hollow points.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
Another version I like a lot. The lil sped fired ~50 shots and only killed two co-workers, didn't even need a couch to get cucked.