Neo Retro Shooters - The intricacies of the renaissance of the "genre" known for gibs, quips and labyrinths.

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

I really liked Prodeus starting out but it got really boring for me the further along I kept progressing.

It was good enough for me to finish it and I hope they take a look at what worked and why then make another game. It would be fun if the levels were a little bit more metroidvania. When revisiting levels I just bounced past most enemies because I was going to a specific section to do a thing.

Putting out ammo types for weapons you wouldn't get until later levels were a nice hint that you should come back later and explore a bit. That was fun, unfortunately it was completely absent in late-game levels for obvious reasons.

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

I hate this term and the fact that so many people have sprung out of the woodwork to capitalize on the trend. Ion Fury was good, Cultic looks cool and I will have to try it sometime, but aside from that none of the so-called boomer shooters have really appealed to me.

I don't know why people can't just call them Doom/Quake/Duke clones. It's a lot less gimmicky and tells you which of the classic FPSes it is copying right away. None of them even play remotely the same barring the classic Build Engine games. I don't know why you would lump them all together just based on them being old retro shooters (I'm also fine with that. The term boomer is just so overused that it has lost any real meaning).

 

[BiggestKai]

For some reason I've been going through roguelite FPS games.
Ziggurat, Nightmare Reaper, Gunfire Reborn and Roboquest. Out of all of these I think the least roguelite one was Roboquest and it incidentally happens to be my favorite of the bunch and overall a game I really enjoyed, but it's mostly because movement and combat pace feels like it was designed by someone who's actually played the game and wanted to make it enjoyable instead of just setting player movement speed to max and calling it a day.
Also funny how it and Nightmare Reaper both have a bolter weapon that's more fun to use than Boltgun's. Roboquest's explodes too so you can mini rocket jump with it which I like.

>tfw an RTS comes out once every 5 years or so

I'm hoping any of these catch your interest
RTSs:
DORF
Tempest Rising
RTT:
Ratten Reich(warning: possible furfaggotry)
Last Train Home(apparently comes out in 3 hours from this post which is neat)
huh:
Age of Darkness: It's like one of those warcraft custom maps where you defend against an increasingly endless horde, or They Are Billions but in a fantasy setting

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

For some reason I've been going through roguelite FPS games.

Try the Infinite Doom WAD for GZDoom.

Cool little rougelite Doom based WAD with challenges, unlockables, etc. It's still in development and there's new patches every couple weeks, I spent a few weeks playing it and it was very fun when it wasn't crashing my computer.

 

[Mr. Duck]

As of now there is dozens and dozens of upcoming Neo Boomer Shooters, I would love to talk about them and hype them, but after Graven and Wrath : Aeon of Ruin I am now convinced that Neo Boomer Shooter devs are the second most laziest game devs losing only to Quirky Indie RPG ones.

The common factor among those two is being developed by nu3D Realms, which is one of the most incompetently managed studios out there (they are making around 8 games at once with a staff of -100), it's so bad that it makes the original 3D Realms (that ran DNF's development into the ground) look good by comparison, the studio is currently owned and managed by the same hack who made the shitty Rise of the Triad remake in 2013, who's now the self-proclaimed "Father of the Retro Shooter".


And claims that nu3DR is going to "redefine AAA".


They are redefining AAA so well that their most hyped game, Phantom Fury, released a demo that was a gigantic buggy mess (couldn't find shorter videos about it).

It shows that they haven't learned anything since the bugfest/poorly designed mess that was ROTT 2013.

 

[Sparky Lurker]

They are redefining AAA so well that their most hyped game, Phantom Fury, released a demo that was a gigantic buggy mess (couldn't find shorter videos about it).

It shows that they haven't learned anything since the bugfest/poorly designed mess that was ROTT 2013.

The curse of Build Engine games is getting shitty 3D sequels it seems.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Selaco, a sci-fi gzdoom shooter with sim elements. unfortunately it's been in development forever and the current release date (5/30/2024) is for the start of early access, lol. however the demo is good as hell IMO. I'm very much looking forward to it.

another good gzdoom shooter I'm on the train for is Supplice. at first glance it doesn't really seem to have much going for it except the tight pixel art style (the art is being done by the Ion Fury guy). but real heads who follow the Doom modding community will be interested to know that Pillowblaster (Russian Overkill, Guncaster) and esselfortium (Back to Saturn X E1, E2, and hopefully some day E3) are on the team, among others. the gameplay and mapping are extremely tight. it's another early access project but progress is coming along steadily. they recently released episode 2.

Forgive Me Father is one of my personal faves, an obvious Lovecraft tribute with a unique art style and some light RPG elements. there are two playable characters with different abilities, and the skill tree allows you to mutate your arsenal to improve or even change the function of specific weapons entirely. it has a sequel in early access.

Project Warlock takes more after Wolf3D style games. I enjoyed it a lot, it has some fun ideas, especially the upgrade/spell system. it also has a sequel in early access that's much more ambitious for better or worse. much of the game design has been changed drastically from the first game, so YMMV.

for the roguelike-likers, there is of course Devil Daggers and its sequel, Hyper Demon. Chop Goblins is similar. if you're also a Schizophrenia Enjoyer like me, check out Post Void.

side mention for Incision and Boomerang X. also, whatever the fuck this is. there are more I'm not remembering right now, I'll add them later.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

The common factor among those two is being developed by nu3D Realms, which is one of the most incompetently managed studios out there (they are making around 8 games at once with a staff of -100), it's so bad that it makes the original 3D Realms (that ran DNF's development into the ground) look good by comparison, the studio is currently owned and managed by the same hack who made the shitty Rise of the Triad remake in 2013, who's now the self-proclaimed "Father of the Retro Shooter".
View attachment 5527312

And claims that nu3DR is going to "redefine AAA".
View attachment 5527315

They are redefining AAA so well that their most hyped game, Phantom Fury, released a demo that was a gigantic buggy mess (couldn't find shorter videos about it).

It shows that they haven't learned anything since the bugfest/poorly designed mess that was ROTT 2013.

That probably explains why Apogee cut themselves out of 3D Realms and cozied up to New Blood, which was founded by the people that worked on the RotT remake and learned what didn’t work.

 

[Calandrino]

I don't know why people can't just call them Doom/Quake/Duke clones. It's a lot less gimmicky and tells you which of the classic FPSes it is copying right away.

I assumed they're called "boomer shooters" because you shoot things with a rocket launcher and they go boom.

Otherwise, it's not a logical term for a new-fangled 3D game.

 

[11 Herbs and Spices]

I don't know why people can't just call them Doom/Quake/Duke clones

Early FPSes were already called "Doom clones" so I assume it's to not correlated the ones from the 90s with more recently made games. I don't get why genre/mechanics naming in games is getting as bad as electronic music where the names mean nothing at best, misleading at worse.

 

[Biggie Smalls' Taint]

To the people who enjoy Boltgun: Did you play past the first chapter? According to Steam's achievements, over 70% of you haven't. Because that game falls off harder than a one-legged drunk with vertigo trying to surf.

Those later levels where the devs just made a giant symmetrical shape and called it a day are terrible. Which hallway did you just go down? Was it the grey one with the giant skulls on the wall, the grey one with the giant skulls on the wall or the grey one with skulls on the wall? Incorrect answer. You were supposed to go down the grey hallway with the giant skulls on the wall. DUH.

It gets way more enjoyable when you know the map and where to go.

"B-but DOOM was full of mazes, too!" Yeah but Doom had the decency of giving you a map and actually populating the levels with enemies. In Boltgun the levels are empty if you're not in a purge.

That's another thing. If a "boomer shooter" locks you in a room and starts spawning mobs instead of placing enemies naturally through the level, it's not a boomer shooter. Serious Sam is not a boomer shooter, despite being older than 98% of Twitter.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

IMO boomer shooters should be taking the gameplay of old games like Doom/Quake/Blood and delivering them in an updated package with modern graphics and other modern bells and whistles.

This is my problem with a lot of the Neo-CRPGs that people like Obsidian make. There's this weird mentality with CRPGs and Boomers Shooters where they seem almost afraid to update their game to fit the modern standard. Like bruh, I've got a lot of time and money invested in a PC that can play modern games, I would like my games to look modern.

A game can have retro mechanical style without looking like it got ported over from 1998.

 

[The Ugly One]

That's another thing. If a "boomer shooter" locks you in a room and starts spawning mobs instead of placing enemies naturally through the level, it's not a boomer shooter. Serious Sam is not a boomer shooter, despite being older than 98% of Twitter.

If I don't have to push a button to open a door at the bottom of a pit to get the red key, it's not a boomer shooter.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

This is my problem with a lot of the Neo-CRPGs that people like Obsidian make. There's this weird mentality with CRPGs and Boomers Shooters where they seem almost afraid to update their game to fit the modern standard. Like bruh, I've got a lot of time and money invested in a PC that can play modern games, I would like my games to look modern.

A game can have retro mechanical style without looking like it got ported over from 1998.

a few reasons why a lo-fi style can be advantageous:

• art assets take much less time and money to produce, leaving more oxygen for things like feature development and map design
• targets a wider range of hardware, increasing accessibility and the size of your audience
• simplified visuals, if done properly, do a lot of work towards making the game more visually legible, as objects are easier to identify and read at a glance (again, if done properly)
• stylized visuals give the game an instantly recognizable aesthetic character, and a good style elevates the game's thematic immersiveness

sprite-based visuals and - to a lesser extent - low-poly visuals were, IMO, babies that were thrown out with their respective bathwater during the tech frenzy of the late 90s and early 2000s. many older lo-fi games accomplish much more visually than modern games with highly detailed graphics, because older devs were forced to try to do more with less. compare the following images:





the first is the most recent Call of Duty. yes, I know The Brown Shooter Franchise is the most meme example possible. however, this particular screenshot does look fantastic from a technical standpoint. the perspective blur is just right, the specular lighting looks great, the rain and environmental lighting are all wonderful. credit to their art and engine team, seriously. but which image gives you better access to information that's directly relevant to playing the actual game? the locations of enemies, the kind of threat they represent, how legible the level geometry is, what direction you might reasonably explore next? all that blur and bloom looks great but it actively interferes with the information the game is trying to communicate to you. this is the strength of lo-fi: rather than kitchen sinking every conceivable graphical simulation effect onto the screen just because it looks pretty, it builds from the bottom up, first constructing a visual language to interface with the player, then finding ways to add pop and visual appeal.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

art assets take much less time and money to produce, leaving more oxygen for things like feature development and map design

While that's true to a certain degree, I am not so sure I'm willing to say there's a huge level of difference between say Pathfinder: Kingmaker or Wrath of the Righteous versus say Pillars of Eternity. Both are CRPGs, but one looks and plays like its 30 years old and the other feels like something that rightfully exists when it came out.

And I do understand that Pillars of Eternity's goal was to emulate old CRPGs, but I think Pillars (along with basically every other Obsidian Project) misses the mark.

stylized visuals give the game an instantly recognizable aesthetic character, and a good style elevates the game's thematic immersiveness

I think this is untrue for like 90% of pixel art based games. For every solid game you have, you have 10,000 that are lazy as shit and generic as fuck looking. Pixel games are to the late 2010's and mid 2020's what drab, gray and brown map design was to 2000's era shooters.

but which image gives you better access to information that's directly relevant to playing the actual game? the locations of enemies, the kind of threat they represent, how legible the level geometry is, what direction you might reasonably explore next?

This is a good question and a good point, but I think it leaves out some relevant information. In the Doom screen shots the goal is to Rip and Tear until it is done. In the Call of Duty Screen Shot the contextual information that's missing is that its a semi-stealth mission where you're having to make snap decisions based on often incomplete information. The dark lighting and lack of knowing what is present is as much part of the presentation as what's shown.

And while I will say the "realistic" look probably doesn't work for Retro Shooters like DOOM or DOOM Eternal, or any others like them, that doesn't mean they can't choose a style that is decently high fidelity without sacrificing their identity.

Style is important after all, and much like the readily killing off of internet websites, the samey artstyles and genre types really seem like they drag down the rest of the industry.

I mean it seems like 90% of all releases each year are: Pixel Retro Shooters, Souls-Like games, Third Person Adventure games, First Person Shooters, a high fidelity racing game, and then 20-30 "cozy" Harvest Moon style farm games with a slightly different gimmick. Oh and like 97 unneeded Paradox DLCs

 

[Gravemind]

The common factor among those two is being developed by nu3D Realms, which is one of the most incompetently managed studios out there (they are making around 8 games at once with a staff of -100), it's so bad that it makes the original 3D Realms (that ran DNF's development into the ground) look good by comparison, the studio is currently owned and managed by the same hack who made the shitty Rise of the Triad remake in 2013, who's now the self-proclaimed "Father of the Retro Shooter".
View attachment 5527312

And claims that nu3DR is going to "redefine AAA".
View attachment 5527315

They are redefining AAA so well that their most hyped game, Phantom Fury, released a demo that was a gigantic buggy mess (couldn't find shorter videos about it).

It shows that they haven't learned anything since the bugfest/poorly designed mess that was ROTT 2013.

Nobody has any faith in 3D Realms considering the sheer degree of projects they keep taking on that continually keep turning into vaporware until a couple of them inevitably trade hands over to Nightdive Studios and they finally get a proper release.

 

[Kerr Avon]

The real question is when is Oshry starting his titty skittles

 

[The Pulverizer]

Shoot enemies, collect secret, shoot enemies. Repeat till boss fight comes up.

The only difference amongst all of the boomer shooters is the sprites, textures, and HUD. You'd have to be retarded to find clones of DOOM, a game that is now 30 years old, refreshing.
Neo Boomer Shooters? More like No Original Ideas.

 

[Ser Prize]

Do any of these nu boomshoots have good melee? I really like shit like Dusk where you can deflect bullets with melee weapons and shit.

 

[The Pulverizer]

a few reasons why a lo-fi style can be advantageous:

• art assets take much less time and money to produce, leaving more oxygen for things like feature development and map design
• targets a wider range of hardware, increasing accessibility and the size of your audience
• simplified visuals, if done properly, do a lot of work towards making the game more visually legible, as objects are easier to identify and read at a glance (again, if done properly)
• stylized visuals give the game an instantly recognizable aesthetic character, and a good style elevates the game's thematic immersiveness

sprite-based visuals and - to a lesser extent - low-poly visuals were, IMO, babies that were thrown out with their respective bathwater during the tech frenzy of the late 90s and early 2000s. many older lo-fi games accomplish much more visually than modern games with highly detailed graphics, because older devs were forced to try to do more with less. compare the following images:

I think visually the challenge should be using the new graphics while also maintaining some kind of visual clarity. But you also don't want the enemies to feel like they don't belong in the 3D environment they're in.
In Doom (2016) the enemies are visually distinct but they don't blend with the environment well. Going back to Doom 3 the enemies blend perfectly with the levels but you can easily recognize them from a distance.


You don't have to go all the way back to Doom 3. Half Life: Alyx also had impressive realistic environments with stylized enemies that fit well with the levels. Mario Odyssey also did that really well while using less advanced graphics.
Developers don't need old-school pixelated textures to avoid the Call of Duty effect. Indie devs probably just use them because they're cheaper, which is undestandable. My problem lies with the lack of new mechanics and ideas.