Megathread Non-binary genders / Enbies - When Male and Female Aren't Special Enough

[LtCucumber]

David Bowie, I should've clarified. And they hate him because he had consensual--if drug-addled--sex with 15-year-old Lori Mattix, a groupie in the 70s. Not saying that's great for obvious reasons, but rock stars have gotten up to worse shit. Following Bowie's death, the victim was very vocal in saying she loved it; she co-wrote an article about it if you're interested.

ohh yeah that, i forgot about that.
God knows there's all sorts of stuff musicians have done generally. Michael Jackson's the biggest example of this, what with all that plastic surgery and other stuff he apparently got up to.
Of course, it doesn't excuse anything, but still if she still stands by "it was consensual and i enjoyed it" even though he's dead (as many people know with the situation with british now-deceased celebrity Jimmy Savile, all the allegations came out when he died) and she can say what she likes about him now, that does sorta say something. I mean it can't be to do with fear of people calling her out. Everyone loved Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris before all the allegations came out, dead or alive they still got in shit

I mean, not excusing using drugs to lower inhibitions for sex, but usually people regret it afterwards, myself included. Not saying it was okay, i'm saying he was lucky she didn't report that shit if she regretted it

 

[cuddle striker]

eh, the 70s. fuckin tumblr.

 

[Meowthkip]

(as many people know with the situation with british now-deceased celebrity Jimmy Savile, all the allegations came out when he died)

Everybody wanted to fuck David Bowie. David Bowie in Labyrinth jump-started puberty for me and many, many other people.

Nobody ever wanted to fuck Jimmy Savile.

 

[LtCucumber]

Everybody wanted to fuck David Bowie. David Bowie in Labyrinth jump-started puberty for me and many, many other people.

Nobody ever wanted to fuck Jimmy Savile.

Good point- i think what I was saying is that usually this sort of allegation comes out after they're dead. Because then they can essentially say what they want (if that makes sense)

I will have to agree with the nobody wanted to fuck Jimmy Savile, not even when he was hosting top of the pops he still looked like the poster child for rapists everywhere. Though allegations came out about Rolf Harris even though he's still alive (but that was by association with Savile i think. It was a while ago i cant remember a lot)

I'm not sure how i feel about the situation. I mean i'm trying to see it from her point of view, that if she still stands by the "it was enjoyable and i wanted it" then i can understand why it's not in all of the papers calling Bowie out? Because usually in these cases the other person involved says something like "_____ sexually assaulted me, ___ and____ happened beforehand" or something similar. I've never been involved with this sort of situation, and i'm not 100% familiar with how these allegations go.

This will seem a little weird, but i do feel like Tumblr was getting offended on this woman's behalf. If she's been open in saying it was consensual/enjoyable as swingbatta said, then wouldn't it not be a big allegation case as tumblr wants it to be?
I feel like i've gone into risky territory for that last paragraph; but i'm not 100% sure on the situation back in the 70s, i even forgot about it until someone brought it up

 

[80's Dad]

This will seem a little weird, but i do feel like Tumblr was getting offended on this woman's behalf.

That is literally what 95% of tumblr is about.

 

[LtCucumber]

That is literally what 95% of tumblr is about.

Pretty much. When you don't give into letting them get offended on your behalf, suddenly you deserve every shitty thing you get.. makes sense.
They'll speak over anyone. Bonus points if they're not the race/gender/sexuality/whatever of the person they're getting offended for.
I have an example, that i decided to spoiler due to it potentially being deemed powerleveling, thought I'd post it anyway for you guys to chuckle at due to the painful stupidity and autism of this one guy i used to have as a friend on social media.

Spoiler: For (a very entertaining) example

A liberal i argued with recently tried to tell me (in the midst of an argument which was mainly him losing his cool and telling me to fuck off, calling me a dumbass, etc) how all black people think and then proceeded to speak for all black people's thoughts despite being white. Honestly, for someone so outspoken about how he thinks racism works, and bashing white people (including quality level buzzwords like "entitled white guy" aimed at me), he was happy to speak for all black people based on how he believes they think.
Then when i called him out on his racism as well as giving decent points that he couldn't answer, he tells me the discussion is over, resulting in an indirect post twisting my words to make him look right.
Bonus points for him ignoring me telling him if he doesn't like it he can delete me on facebook and indirectly post about me on facebook for his internet friends and online boyfriend.

TL/DR; Liberals are idiots and will lose their cool in arguments, contradict themselves, and then throw a fit and end an argument when they aren't winning.

 

[cuddle striker]

well, she was a minor so technically, yeah, he was a prick to do it.

she may or may not be OK with it, all we can do is believe what she says about that.
so yeah.

 

[Synthesizer Patel]

Speaking of "gender-nonconforming celebrities", I'm reminded of people like Eddie Izzard, who comparatively recently "came out as transgender" (although doesn't want to be a woman, so the kind of transgender that means whatever you want). Also Richard O'Brien, who I think considers himself "third gender", but I just remember reading that some time ago when I was nostalgic about the Crystal Maze.

So I guess some of the people who bent the rules of what men are, who kind of showed that you can do feminine things but still be a straight (white) man... Maybe they have that mindset that "cis straight people are always gender-conforming and probably transphobic. I'm not those things, therefore I must be trans/non-binary/whatever". Like how I suspect a lot of the people on tumblr and similar places came to the same conclusions about their own identities. With a healthy pinch of "wanting to join the queer club" along with it.

On a side note, the phrase "I identify as" is stupid, yeah. What does that even mean? Why not just say "I am"? Kind of sounds like they're admitting that they know they're not really [gender], they just relate to it. Which is at odds with the whole insistence that "If you imply that I'm not male/female/etc in every way then you're literally murdering me".

 

[AnOminous]

Speaking of "gender-nonconforming celebrities", I'm reminded of people like Eddie Izzard, who comparatively recently "came out as transgender" (although doesn't want to be a woman, so the kind of transgender that means whatever you want). Also Richard O'Brien, who I think considers himself "third gender", but I just remember reading that some time ago when I was nostalgic about the Crystal Maze.

I'm not sure about Izzard. He might have just gotten tired of being called a shitlord for being a man who liked to dress in women's clothing. Transvestitism is now oppression or some shit, so he just said okay whatever.

 

[swingbatta]

Speaking of "gender-nonconforming celebrities", I'm reminded of people like Eddie Izzard, who comparatively recently "came out as transgender" (although doesn't want to be a woman, so the kind of transgender that means whatever you want). Also Richard O'Brien, who I think considers himself "third gender", but I just remember reading that some time ago when I was nostalgic about the Crystal Maze.

So I guess some of the people who bent the rules of what men are, who kind of showed that you can do feminine things but still be a straight (white) man... Maybe they have that mindset that "cis straight people are always gender-conforming and probably transphobic. I'm not those things, therefore I must be trans/non-binary/whatever". Like how I suspect a lot of the people on tumblr and similar places came to the same conclusions about their own identities. With a healthy pinch of "wanting to join the queer club" along with it.

On a side note, the phrase "I identify as" is stupid, yeah. What does that even mean? Why not just say "I am"? Kind of sounds like they're admitting that they know they're not really [gender], they just relate to it. Which is at odds with the whole insistence that "If you imply that I'm not male/female/etc in every way then you're literally murdering me".

Richard O'Brien was genderbending before it was cool. From what I've seen in interviews, though, his "third gender" identity was more "I like doing feminine things and I can't be arsed to explain it because it's very nebulous and new-agey, so let's just say I'm a third gender." Also I think he's done a lot of drugs.

 

[Meowthkip]

Richard O'Brien was genderbending before it was cool. From what I've seen in interviews, though, his "third gender" identity was more "I like doing feminine things and I can't be arsed to explain it because it's very nebulous and new-agey, so let's just say I'm a third gender." Also I think he's done a lot of drugs.

If kiddies on Tumblr did more drugs they'd probably be kind of fun.

 

[AnOminous]

Richard O'Brien was genderbending before it was cool. From what I've seen in interviews, though, his "third gender" identity was more "I like doing feminine things and I can't be arsed to explain it because it's very nebulous and new-agey, so let's just say I'm a third gender." Also I think he's done a lot of drugs.

There's a lot to be said for the ethic of just doing whatever the fuck you feel like, and telling anyone who doesn't like it to go fuck themselves.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

Richard O'Brien knows he is a man and stated that trans women are also men. He is just a dude who likes womens clothing.

I guess it's because he was born in 1942 and didn't grow up with tumblr/buzzfeed and so on.

 

[Banana]

I swear to god whenever I see actual men identifying as "nonbinary" and not just fake transbois aka teenage to twentysome girls with butch lesbian haircuts I have to wonder how much they hate themselves, considering that the whole "thirdgender" trend more or less seems to usually be adapted by women.

I mean I know some men who jump on the whole sjw gender trender train to get some easy lays, ale you need to do is put some flowers in your beard and say you're totes not a man anymore and the sjw chicks will hopp on your *not male* cock (while claiming they aren't straight of course)

seems a bit too serious here to be that, though. maybe he's reading too much buzzfeed?

I've actually met this person before, he's gay so he's definitely not just doing it for easy SJW lays although I've met a few straight male trenders who seem like they do it for that reason. This guy used to be a drag queen though and actually used to say he was cis back when I met him, and he ironically got a lot more masculine looking since then when he jumped on the trender train and he's stopped doing drag as far as I know. No idea why he did it, maybe he wanted to stand out more since when I met him he lived in a really SJW area full of trenders.

 

[LtCucumber]

Richard O'Brien knows he is a man and stated that trans women are also men. He is just a dude who likes womens clothing.

I guess it's because he was born in 1942 and didn't grow up with tumblr/buzzfeed and so on.

I mean, O'Brien directed Rocky Horror, and Frank is portrayed as a transvestite/just a man in a dress (then again i think that's how trans people were perceived then anyway) so it's not surprising to hear that he thinks that trans women are men who wear women's clothing.
Men who enjoy dressing in women's clothes but aren't transgender are pretty cool too though.
I wonder how O'Brien felt about the rocky horror remake which featured a trans woman, and the character of frank being portrayed as a trans woman (female pronouns instead of male, etc)

 

[Synthesizer Patel]

Good to know re: O'Brien being more in the "whatever the fuck happens" camp: admittedly I can't see him as the kind of social justice gender politics type, but I don't know much about him outside of the things I've seen him in. I seem to remember him being on a few lists/arguments of genderspecial celebrities in an attempt to prove that it's not just gullible teenagers on the Internet (combined with "POC have recognised other genders for centuries" of course).

Izzard, though, I can believe that he does consider himself transgender, and not just saying it in a "leave me alone and let me wear a dress" kind of way. Maybe because he's more actively political and quite left-wing, he pops up every now and then to give his opinions on things. Though as far as I know he still calls himself "he", and I've not bothered to look into it too much. Mainly because I grew up watching his stand-up videos, and I try to keep his politics away from the comedy I remember.
Same with celebrities in general, really. I keep seeing tweets made by Graham Lineham that make me cringe, so best to ignore and avoid things like their twitter accounts. fftopic:

 

[Urban Superstition]

David Bowie, I should've clarified. And they hate him because he had consensual--if drug-addled--sex with 15-year-old Lori Mattix, a groupie in the 70s. Not saying that's great for obvious reasons, but rock stars have gotten up to worse shit. Following Bowie's death, the victim was very vocal in saying she loved it; she co-wrote an article about it if you're interested.

I heard that she lied about her age?
Any adult who knowingly has sex with a minor is a major scumbag, but it's terrible to dig up dirt on a recently-deceased, widely-beloved celebrity.

 

[AnOminous]

I heard that she lied about her age?
Any adult who knowingly has sex with a minor is a major scumbag, but it's terrible to dig up dirt on a recently-deceased, widely-beloved celebrity.

It was known he'd done that for a long time. Lori Maddox had written about it and given extensive interviews about it. It's just standard SJW to shit on someone's fresh grave, because that's just the kind of people they are.

 

[LtCucumber]

For some reason I found this topic again due to post ratings and I'm kinda digging it up again because this reminds me of someone on my facebook that just kinda pisses me off for a buttload of reasons.

Reason being that she's taken seriously as a nonbinary person despite coming out to hop on the bandwagon after two other trans people came out, and making no attempt to pass at all.
:powerlevel:even more pissed about the organisation we're a part of using her chosen name on flyers but still uses my original name despite me having been out for years and trying so fucking hard to be taken seriously. It's like they don't take real trans people seriously but take her seriously despite the only effort she's made to "transition" is cutting her hair and changing her name to something neutral.
(apologies for the salt about this- I'm just done with her shit and have been for a while now)

Another little fun thing for you guys that happened around last year. Went to one of her parties, and an ex boyfriend of hers tried to white knight for her and correcting me when I used "she" to describe her. She accepts female pronouns for a start. But I'd been drinking, felt brave, told him to stop being a dumb twat, and that I can't exactly remember she doesn't like being referred to as a girl if she fucking looks like one almost all the time.

It also seems like nonbinary people are really manipulative? I'm not going to go into it, but let's just say fair few of her exes (all guys, despite her saying she's pan) don't exactly have the "best" opinion of her. There's another nonbinary person I know of that's also manipulative as fuck but I can't remember his name for the life of me.

i'll pick up on this topic again when I can find my glasses and am not getting a headache from looking at a computer screen half blind.

 

[LazarusOwenhart]

For some reason I found this topic again due to post ratings and I'm kinda digging it up again because this reminds me of someone on my facebook that just kinda pisses me off for a buttload of reasons.

Reason being that she's taken seriously as a nonbinary person despite coming out to hop on the bandwagon after two other trans people came out, and making no attempt to pass at all.
:powerlevel:even more pissed about the organisation we're a part of using her chosen name on flyers but still uses my original name despite me having been out for years and trying so fucking hard to be taken seriously. It's like they don't take real trans people seriously but take her seriously despite the only effort she's made to "transition" is cutting her hair and changing her name to something neutral.
(apologies for the salt about this- I'm just done with her shit and have been for a while now)

Another little fun thing for you guys that happened around last year. Went to one of her parties, and an ex boyfriend of hers tried to white knight for her and correcting me when I used "she" to describe her. She accepts female pronouns for a start. But I'd been drinking, felt brave, told him to stop being a dumb twat, and that I can't exactly remember she doesn't like being referred to as a girl if she fucking looks like one almost all the time.

It also seems like nonbinary people are really manipulative? I'm not going to go into it, but let's just say fair few of her exes (all guys, despite her saying she's pan) don't exactly have the "best" opinion of her. There's another nonbinary person I know of that's also manipulative as fuck but I can't remember his name for the life of me.

i'll pick up on this topic again when I can find my glasses and am not getting a headache from looking at a computer screen half blind.

I'd imagine the key difference is down to the levels of noise and reeeeeeeeee ing that she's willing to do compared to you. No company really wants the hassle of dealing with anybody who's different but if she's made a ton of noise they will, purely to avoid liability. If you quietly tick along trying to be accepted but not looking like a major lawsuit/discrimination case they won't bother trying to be inclusive.