Megathread Non-binary genders / Enbies - When Male and Female Aren't Special Enough

[bad yiff]

Same here. I don't recall them ever making a huge fuss over her playing Frank N Furter. In fact, I think I actually saw some posts celebrating it. Strange to me that they suddenly have no problem with stuff like this when it's their Trans Queen or whatever. Get the feeling if it was literally anyone else they would have thrown a fit over it.

I can't do the mental gymnastics that comes with this shit. First they say gender doesn't matter and that clothing or anything else isn't gendered, but then they get their feelings hurt when drag queens are just out there having some fun. But for some strange reason drag kings (or trans masc??) are OK to them, just never drag queens because yeah.. How dare you literally murder trans women by enjoying dressing up as a woman sometimes without identifying as transgender. The NB community is littered with double-standards, most of which has to do with clothing funnily enough despite constantly screaming about how clothing isn't gendered and gender is a social construct.

And speaking of the social construct bit, it does seem pretty insulting to insist that stuff when transgender people suffering from serious dysphoria can't just view gender in that way. A transgender man would not be caught dead in a dress; Not unless they've fully transitioned and are completely comfortable with themselves -- completely true to themselves even (this is why I think Laverne was fine taking the part of Frank N Furter: because she is totally comfortable with herself. But not all transgender people would feel the same)

They think because they've "figured out gender" or something that it means everyone doesn't need to be bound to traditional gender constructs. Nevermind the fact some people are seriously uncomfortable in dresses, or suits, or what-have-you. Obviously that's all just the evil cis people controlling everyone, telling everyone what to do or wear. I seriously see them blaming cis people for "truscum" trannies not wanting to wear what makes them uncomfortable, which is invalidating as fuck, and I feel for those people that just wanna live their damn life without getting told their gender is a lie by some teenager basically.

 

[LtCucumber]

I just saw this video by Trevor Moran in the suggested videos. Followed him for a long time, thought he was coming out as trans.

Spoiler: video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDIWGlBt3o&t=28s

On the contrary. He talks about how he's a feminine guy, he likes wearing makeup, and people tried to push him to transition to become a woman, saying things like "omg you look so good as a woman you should transition", because he would "kill it"... "as if it's a fucking sport- 'like you'd fucking kill it being transgender' ". He got a bunch of women's clothing, and was even planning on starting HRT, made appointments to do so and start transitioning.

Because he's a feminine guy who likes to wear makeup, and he felt lost and I'm guessing he was easily influenced by the many people on his social media encouraging him to "go trans", because he'd look good as a woman.
I guess he was still in the process of finding himself- "I was rushing into it just because I was so lonely and very confused"

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

I'm glad he managed to stay strong with being who he is. And it really, really sucks that people tried to pressure him into being a girl.

 

[LtCucumber]

I'm glad he managed to stay strong with being who he is. And it really, really sucks that people tried to pressure him into being a girl.

It really sucks. This situation does really show how much people will say "you're trans" if you don't 100% conform to gender roles. That's like, the biggest middle finger to transgender people. I've known the girliest girls who have come out as trans, and are transitioning to become a man, same with men who are now women. Being gender nonconforming does not make you transgender, and pushing that mentality on people is extremely damaging, not only for the person you're pressuring, but for the trans community as a whole. Just for the sake of being progressive, but the people doing this look extremely sexist- "you're not a woman unless you're girly", "you're not really a man even though you're comfortable as a man because you like to wear makeup"- it's complete bullshit

It's past the point of acceptance. It's gotten to fetishization and pushing that on other people because "you'd look hot as the opposite gender (and trans people are better than the icky cis, obvi)"- honey that's what drag is for. Not transitioning. Transitioning because you think you'd be a hot man or woman is among the many reasons NOT to transition.

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

That's what bugs me about Tumblr. They assume because you're a guy and wear makeup that it means you're trans, or if you're a girl who can be androgynous or like to dress like a guy instead of liking girly things, it makes you a trans boy.

And other people on Tumblr can push that onto someone who is naive and young and figuring themselves out and really fuck them up.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

I will note, though, that he's a lot girlier looking than even your average effeminate gay dude.

Not that that makes it okay to pressure him into being trans, of course, but I can understand why a lot of people would think he's an "egg", as opposed to other youtube swishes like Joey Graceffa or Tyler Oakley, who you would never come close to mistaking as women.

 

[LtCucumber]

I will note, though, that he's a lot girlier looking than even your average effeminate gay dude.
View attachment 343648
Not that that makes it okay to pressure him into being trans, of course, but I can understand why a lot of people would think he's an "egg", as opposed to other youtube swishes like Joey Graceffa or Tyler Oakley, who you would never come close to mistaking as women.

Those pictures may be from when he was planning on transitioning, he did say he replaced his entire wardrobe with women's clothing.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Those pictures may be from when he was planning on transitioning, he did say he replaced his entire wardrobe with women's clothing.

Good point.
I did scroll back in his insta/videos for a while and even over a year ago, he's still pretty girly looking, which to be fair is partly just because his face looks like that.
Also every gay dude on youtube is required to have an unfortunate facial hair phase and now it's his turn!!

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

That's what bugs me about Tumblr. They assume because you're a guy and wear makeup that it means you're trans, or if you're a girl who can be androgynous or like to dress like a guy instead of liking girly things, it makes you a trans boy.

And other people on Tumblr can push that onto someone who is naive and young and figuring themselves out and really fuck them up.

I looked that term up.

Oh. Yeah, that's legit every trans masc person on Tumblr. Still the same damn hair. Seems more like a fashion thing than anything else.

You're both catching on to the same thing here.

It's not an accident that gender identity groups have proliferated in an era of targeted marketing and advertising.

It's hard for marketers to figure out exactly which people they should market to when all they have is their online information. But now, people will happily divide themselves up into fashion categories that allow incredibly specific targeted marketing, since as soon as they move to a new fashion phase, they'll also incorporate a different gender identity category.

I suspect the 65 gender identities stuff is basically a test balloon for seeing how much we can get people to self-categorize according to their own consumption (both current and aspirational) patterns. You market sleek charcoal suits to "trans masculine" identities, and blue hair dye to "non-binary AFABs," while "trans boys" get binder and anime ads, with some plastic surgeons on the side.

Imagine if we could get people to loudly declare their exact "clique"-style identity on Facebook, etc.: "I'm a demi-nerd with some jock tendencies." "I'm soft emo." "I'm scenequeer leaning toward dramafag." Suddenly, marketing departments don't even have to bother with expensive persona research and testing. People have laid it all out for them, and it costs them nothing. The only price paid by the self-categorizer is a subsuming of individual identity into a group based on consumer behavior, which a lot of people no longer recognize as a real price at all.

It's just like the way Alexa, Siri, etc. make people perfectly content to choose to have a potential wiretap device listening in on their intimate conversations 24/7. The 21st century is and will be monstrous because marketers have figured out how to make people believe they truly are choosing specific acts, behavior patterns, and consumption styles that primarily benefit retailers and advertising algorithms.

 

[Meowthkip]

You're both catching on to the same thing here.

It's not an accident that gender identity groups have proliferated in an era of targeted marketing and advertising.

It's hard for marketers to figure out exactly which people they should market to when all they have is their online information. But now, people will happily divide themselves up into fashion categories that allow incredibly specific targeted marketing, since as soon as they move to a new fashion phase, they'll also incorporate a different gender identity category.

I suspect the 65 gender identities stuff is basically a test balloon for seeing how much we can get people to self-categorize according to their own consumption (both current and aspirational) patterns. You market sleek charcoal suits to "trans masculine" identities, and blue hair dye to "non-binary AFABs," while "trans boys" get binder and anime ads, with some plastic surgeons on the side.

Imagine if we could get people to loudly declare their exact "clique"-style identity on Facebook, etc.: "I'm a demi-nerd with some jock tendencies." "I'm soft emo." "I'm scenequeer leaning toward dramafag." Suddenly, marketing departments don't even have to bother with expensive persona research and testing. People have laid it all out for them, and it costs them nothing. The only price paid by the self-categorizer is a subsuming of individual identity into a group based on consumer behavior, which a lot of people no longer recognize as a real price at all.

It's just like the way Alexa, Siri, etc. make people perfectly content to choose to have a potential wiretap device listening in on their intimate conversations 24/7. The 21st century is and will be monstrous because marketers have figured out how to make people believe they truly are choosing specific acts, behavior patterns, and consumption styles that primarily benefit retailers and advertising algorithms.

Holy shit, dude.

What will the radical queer communists make of this?

 

[Wallace]

You're both catching on to the same thing here.

It's not an accident that gender identity groups have proliferated in an era of targeted marketing and advertising.

It's hard for marketers to figure out exactly which people they should market to when all they have is their online information. But now, people will happily divide themselves up into fashion categories that allow incredibly specific targeted marketing, since as soon as they move to a new fashion phase, they'll also incorporate a different gender identity category.

I suspect the 65 gender identities stuff is basically a test balloon for seeing how much we can get people to self-categorize according to their own consumption (both current and aspirational) patterns. You market sleek charcoal suits to "trans masculine" identities, and blue hair dye to "non-binary AFABs," while "trans boys" get binder and anime ads, with some plastic surgeons on the side.

Imagine if we could get people to loudly declare their exact "clique"-style identity on Facebook, etc.: "I'm a demi-nerd with some jock tendencies." "I'm soft emo." "I'm scenequeer leaning toward dramafag." Suddenly, marketing departments don't even have to bother with expensive persona research and testing. People have laid it all out for them, and it costs them nothing. The only price paid by the self-categorizer is a subsuming of individual identity into a group based on consumer behavior, which a lot of people no longer recognize as a real price at all.

It's just like the way Alexa, Siri, etc. make people perfectly content to choose to have a potential wiretap device listening in on their intimate conversations 24/7. The 21st century is and will be monstrous because marketers have figured out how to make people believe they truly are choosing specific acts, behavior patterns, and consumption styles that primarily benefit retailers and advertising algorithms.

Fuck. Where's my horrifying rating?

But yeah, regarding the discussion upthread. The social pressure to transition in these communities is huge. "Rapid-onset gender dysphoria" becoming the new hotness.

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

Hm.

I decided to look up dysphoria on Tumblr to see what people had to say about it.

Most of the enby ones use the second one, from what I've noticed.

 

[LtCucumber]

View attachment 344351 View attachment 344352
Hm.

I decided to look up dysphoria on Tumblr to see what people had to say about it.
View attachment 344356
Most of the enby ones use the second one, from what I've noticed.

"you can't have social dysphoria without having gender dysphoria" that is very true. HOWEVER, it does not need a separate term, and I don't even know if it's a real form of gender dysphoria. Social situations that can make you more aware of dysphoria or make it worse? Yes, completely, that can happen. Trans people (real trans people) may feel some sense of distress when misgendered, especially since they're trying to pass. And I can understand some aspects of "gender euphoria" but it's not an opposite to gender dysphoria. It doesn't make your dysphoria go away, it just makes you feel good about yourself.

Gender euphoria isn't really a thing. It does not need a stand alone term, and it absolutely does not have roots in gender dysphoria. It doesn't affect your gender dysphoria. For example, :powerlevel:my partner and I went bowling yesterday, a kid went up to me and was about to ask me something and his mother then said "no i was pointing over there" and the poor kid was like "but you said ask him"- Sure, it made me feel great, but it doesn't prevent any feelings of dysphoria.:powerlevel:
It's like if someone said "I like your hair" or gave you any other compliment. It makes you feel good, but that's kinda it. Maybe I'm a little cynical as people go overboard with gender euphoria, and use it as an excuse to call themselves trans. I believe Milo Stewart was (and maybe still is) very guilty of this. I know she mentioned it in videos, and was using it as a crutch. iirc, she mentioned people gendering her correctly gives her gender euphoria, while mentioning in other videos that the dysphoria she had is now nonexistent. Someone telling you that you're a cute (whatever gender you are), and you feeling good about it does not mean you have dysphoria. Discomfort with the sex characteristics that you have means you have dysphoria.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

Gender euphoria is fetish fulfillment, no more and no less. It feels good to people who sexualize being the opposite sex, and it feels good in a sexual way. A lot of the gender-euphoria types are pretty open about the fact that this kind of validation in public arouses them.

 

[LtCucumber]

Gender euphoria is fetish fulfillment, no more and no less. It feels good to people who sexualize being the opposite sex, and it feels good in a sexual way. A lot of the gender-euphoria types are pretty open about the fact that this kind of validation in public arouses them.

Thank you. I don't see anyone with dysphoria talking about gender euphoria. I can see how it started out as a tumblr thing.

Feels like it should be on a TV advert.

"Do you not have dysphoria but claim to be trans?"
"Do you want to be as oppressed as the others with minimal effort?"
"Then gender euphoria is for you! Just say you feel good when someone calls you bunself and that eliminates need for dysphoria"

 

[One Man Bland]

It really sucks. This situation does really show how much people will say "you're trans" if you don't 100% conform to gender roles. That's like, the biggest middle finger to transgender people. I've known the girliest girls who have come out as trans, and are transitioning to become a man, same with men who are now women. Being gender nonconforming does not make you transgender, and pushing that mentality on people is extremely damaging, not only for the person you're pressuring, but for the trans community as a whole. Just for the sake of being progressive, but the people doing this look extremely sexist- "you're not a woman unless you're girly", "you're not really a man even though you're comfortable as a man because you like to wear makeup"- it's complete bullshit

It's past the point of acceptance. It's gotten to fetishization and pushing that on other people because "you'd look hot as the opposite gender (and trans people are better than the icky cis, obvi)"- honey that's what drag is for. Not transitioning. Transitioning because you think you'd be a hot man or woman is among the many reasons NOT to transition.

I don't remember if it was mentioned in this one or in another, but there's also been suggestion that this exact attitude might actually be really dangerous for gay and lesbian teens since a lot of them tend to go through a period of gender non-conformity and experimentation when they're trying to figure things out, and with quite a bit of a historical basis forcibly giving people hormones and sex changes as a cure/punishment for homosexuality there's a big risk of "trans" becoming an acceptable cover for what's essentially conversion therapy. Hell, there's even been a few of those articles about "Christian parent accepts trans daughter" fluff pieces that get passed around where, when you read between the lines, it's more the parents going "I'd rather have a daughter than a son who's a faggot." But no one seems to want to say anything to them because questioning this is "transphobic" now.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

there's a big risk of "trans" becoming an acceptable cover for what's essentially conversion therapy.

We are ALREADY there. Also disabled children who don't conform to gender norms are at risk.

Children with downs syndrome
autistic children: 1 2

 

[sheephead]

I find it much harder with all this tumblr gender bullshit to figure yourself out. Is it insecurity and the unhappiness with the own body that everyone experiences or actual gender dysphoria? Is it the mind tricking itself into thinking it's dysphoria or is it serious? This is even more difficult for very young people/teenagers because, know,

And shit, I can definitely see why so many tumblrinas seem to believe they're trans considering a large part of the community shits on everyone that admits to being cishet and thinks that just breaking gender norms/disliking the size of your breasts is a sign of dysphoria. Every enbie/genderspecial that I've talked to basically says that their identity is tied to how they dress or what hobbies they have and 95% appear to have no desire to transition and look like every other girl, yet they apparently feel the need to announce how 'gay' and 'queer' they are every other second.

 

[Wallace]

I find it much harder with all this tumblr gender bullshit to figure yourself out. Is it insecurity and the unhappiness with the own body that everyone experiences or actual gender dysphoria? Is it the mind tricking itself into thinking it's dysphoria or is it serious? This is even more difficult for very young people/teenagers because, know,

And shit, I can definitely see why so many tumblrinas seem to believe they're trans considering a large part of the community shits on everyone that admits to being cishet and thinks that just breaking gender norms/disliking the size of your breasts is a sign of dysphoria. Every enbie/genderspecial that I've talked to basically says that their identity is tied to how they dress or what hobbies they have and 95% appear to have no desire to transition and look like every other girl, yet they apparently feel the need to announce how 'gay' and 'queer' they are every other second.

Take a look at how it benefits them. It excuses/explains away their anxiety and depression about their appearance, sexuality, or interests. It gives them a peer group that offers unconditional love and acceptance (right up until they don't) to combat the sense of social alienation. It gives them leverage to use against people who bother them, including their parents.

The fact that so many of these genderspecial kids are also socially anxious/awkward and have nerdy hobbies is not a coincidence. I've said before that this is a cult, and I maintain that position.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

For 95% of them, if they had been born ten years earlier, they would've been scene kids.

Weird hair? Check.
Too much makeup? Check.
Sorta androgynous? Check.
Sorta bisexual? Check.
Really mad at their parents and having to live in the suburbs? Check.