NPCs: Born or made?

[gang weeder]

As with most social behaviors it's probably a combination of nature and nurture as to what "makes someone an NPC." We also might have to define what exactly is meant by the term. To me, it implies someone who values social comfort over truth, and this includes the vast majority of the population. As we can see with troonism, if saying that 2+2=5 leads to social acceptance, most people will say it, or at least not really try to argue against it. This is a pretty predictable way for humans to evolve, as being liked by the rest of your tribe is obviously of more concrete benefit than being correct in the abstract on some autistic debate topic (as Socrates found out the hard way).

As someone else pointed out, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. It just depends on what those dominant social values are that the average person is conforming to.

 

[The Wicked Mitch]

Born but certainly very heavily reinforced for obvious reasons by those who rule over us. I encourage you to look into the work done by Solomon Asch during the 50's on conformity and social pressure.

In short an astounding percentage of the population will consistently go with the group consensus even if it's blatantly, objectively wrong.

 

[Sailor Kim Jong Moon]

Does anyone think Meyer Briggs personality could impact the odds of NPC behavior?

For example ~20% of women are ISFJ. It’s also pretty common in men. Could explain the bullshit were being subjected to.

Idk how valid MB personality is. But, it’s interesting to consider. Especially the SF (sensing, feeling) grouping.

 

[Saint Agustin]

Wow, this thread really became a well of information on behavioral science.

Kiwis are a smart bunch

 

[Never Scored]

The no inner speech thing is fascinating. I’m never really sure what to make of it. Are they saying people literally never have any? I can accept I suppose that people may have very different ways of inner reflection, we all think in lots of different ways, verbally, images, intuition etc. but are they saying some people have literally no inner reflection at all? That’s really weird.

It's weird. I've seen it portrayed as almost hearing a voice in your head. That sounds schizo to me. I see images in my head moreso than a voice. I learn much better from seeing something written down or a diagram or a demonstration than I do from someone verbally telling me something. When I read something written down my brain extrapolates a visual in my mind as opposed to hearing the words in my head. I always wondered if it was related to the inner voice thing. It's incredible how different people have totally different thought processes and ways of forming ideas. I retain almost everything I read, but very little I hear. I've met people who were the opposite.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

I've seen it portrayed as almost hearing a voice in your head.

The Simpsons: Homer talking to his brain compilation - YouTube

I like how Homer has an internal monologue despite having a crayon in his brain making him stupid.

 

[Never Scored]

He also sees cartoons in his head like me.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

I'd say made for the most part. NPC is a state of being in autopilot and we live a system that does it damnest to make sure we stay in that mode through a combination of easy dopamine hits and low expectations. Anyone who can't examine their life and realize NPC behavior they fell into at one point is very likely still a NPC. Sadly alot of people are doomed to be forever NPC because they never get the shock or critical idea that wakes them up.

Just because you are aware of yourself now doesn't mean you can't fall back into NPC mode.

 

[L50LasPak]

Born, overwhelmingly. Think about it for ten seconds. Too many leaders pulling in different directions and absolutely nothing gets done. The labor doesn't get distributed where its needed, people don't know what they want, society has no direction, and things spiral into indolence until its too late. Then you go extinct.

Think about the level of conflict and uncertainty that can arise from just two strong leaders who have even moderately differing opinions from one another. Now consider the consequences of adding just one more strong personality to that matrix; the consequences are exponential. 2x2=4. 3x3x3=27. You've just complicated things by an additional 675%, where every single point of difference could mean death.

Having the overwhelming majority of human beings lack the capacity for higher thought is not a defect. Its a failsafe system which we have defeated and will shortly face the consequences for doing so.

 

[ddw]

absolutely born. NPCs are recognizable as kids if you spend enough time interacting with them. based on personal experience (as a gradeschooler):

• they have no ability to question why a punishment or rule even exists, just laments it at most
• doesn't have any knowledge of stuff not taught in school
• (idk the modern equivalent so i'll just stick with what it was like in the 2000's) doesn't use the internet because it's "dangerous" or they "might get a virus" and if they use it at all they just go on a handful of kid sites like the cartoon network site and webkinz, not based stuff like screwattack and newgrounds. forget about trying to show them a youtube video
• very hesitant to complain about parents, even in total privacy

 

[Megaton Punch]

It's interesting how certain people seem to default to "everyone is an NPC, free will does not exist" as a cope. They don't seem to realize how telling that statement is. The idea of not being a blind conformist is not only alien to them, but humanly impossible.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Having the overwhelming majority of human beings lack the capacity for higher thought is not a defect.

What if there could have been an increased natural urge to cooperate or empathize, without having an "NPC state"?

Of course, centralized civilization - at least or especially technological - may have been unable to emerge then.

 

[Bungus Scrungus]

I'd answer the question, but I'm shocked to discover by the similar threads section below that this meme is at least in it's Wojak form anyways 3 years old at this point. It's going to turn 4 this year. Jesus Christ, where does the time go?

 

[ToroidalBoat]

The idea of not being a blind conformist is not only alien to them, but humanly impossible.

Reminds me of the schoolyard "logic" kids can have: "if it's different it's wrong".

(in Current Year it may be something like "if it's different it's cringe")

where does the time go?

I made a thread awhile back on the 2010s being a blur.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Does anyone think Meyer Briggs personality could impact the odds of NPC behavior?

For example ~20% of women are ISFJ. It’s also pretty common in men. Could explain the bullshit were being subjected to.

Idk how valid MB personality is. But, it’s interesting to consider. Especially the SF (sensing, feeling) grouping.

SJ types in general are known to basically be the biggest conformists for the most part.

Spoiler: MBTI Sperging

If we're bringing in MBTI then we need to pay close attention to what the 4 main groupings are. There's SJ, SP, NT, and NF. SJs (ESFJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ISTJ) are normies and make up at least 45% of the population combined. SPs are probably something like 35% (ESFP, ESTP, ISFP, ISTP). Both of these groups act totally differently from each other in a lot of cases and won't really see the world in anywhere near the same way since the underlying functions are different. An ESFJ wants to please and be liked. An ESFP wants to have fun and stick his dick in everything.(

 

[Sailor Kim Jong Moon]

SJ types in general are known to basically be the biggest conformists for the most part.

Spoiler: MBTI Sperging

If we're bringing in MBTI then we need to pay close attention to what the 4 main groupings are. There's SJ, SP, NT, and NF. SJs (ESFJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ISTJ) are normies and make up at least 45% of the population combined. SPs are probably something like 35% (ESFP, ESTP, ISFP, ISTP). Both of these groups act totally differently from each other in a lot of cases and won't really see the world in anywhere near the same way since the underlying functions are different. An ESFJ wants to please and be liked. An ESFP wants to have fun and stick his dick in everything.(

Does the S element make normie-hood more likely, you think? Seems like they’re constrained to what’s in their immediate vicinity making it easier to use mass media to convince them of stupid shit

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Does the S element make normie-hood more likely, you think? Seems like they’re constrained to what’s in their immediate vicinity making it easier to use mass media to convince them of stupid shit

S can mean two different things. Introverted Sensing (which is Si and is the defining element in Sjs) and Extraverted Sensing (likewise for SPs). Both can be NPCs and the categories trend toward it implicitly. They can also learn to think for themselves if the inclination is given.

Spoiler: How they work in detail

By itself, either way, it denotes simply that the user doesn't take in information from abstract concepts but uses more or less purely physical stimuli. The difference from there then comes in what physical stimuli is being processed followed by how.
An Si user will (broadly) more or less follow the rules given to them and remain within those confines. They default to being NPCs because their brains 'see' primarily based on prior experience and default to instruction. The function itself is basically a filing cabinet.
An Se user will simply see the world and process it internally to some degree as it comes up. They live based on continuous inputs and will program themselves along with it. The function itself is essentially a camera.

 

[Sailor Kim Jong Moon]

S can mean two different things. Introverted Sensing (which is Si and is the defining element in Sjs) and Extraverted Sensing (likewise for SPs). Both can be NPCs and the categories trend toward it implicitly. They can also learn to think for themselves if the inclination is given.

Spoiler: How they work in detail

By itself, either way, it denotes simply that the user doesn't take in information from abstract concepts but uses more or less purely physical stimuli. The difference from there then comes in what physical stimuli is being processed followed by how.
An Si user will (broadly) more or less follow the rules given to them and remain within those confines. They default to being NPCs because their brains 'see' primarily based on prior experience and default to instruction. The function itself is basically a filing cabinet.
An Se user will simply see the world and process it internally to some degree as it comes up. They live based on continuous inputs and will program themselves along with it. The function itself is essentially a camera.

I think there’s a thread somewhere on here that has a survey. I couldn’t find it after three seconds so gave up.

Anyway, I bet $20 that NTs are vastly over represented in the autistic Thunderdome.

And SF is vastly over represented on Twitter.

Anyone who’s cognitive functioning (or whatever) is confined by the senses and emotions is most likely going to end up an obnoxious NPC to the worst degree. Plus Sensing is 70+% of population and Feeling is 60+% of population. “I see current issue. Current issue makes me feel sad. Therefore, narrative narrative narrative.”

The question is: to what extent does nature select this distribution of NPCs or is it nurtured by society.

And another question: How can we influence or alter their natural NPC setting - without owning the mainstream media and big tech corps? Is it possible? (Are the SF retards trainable?)

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

I think there’s a thread somewhere on here that has a survey. I couldn’t find it after three seconds so gave up.

Anyway, I bet $20 that NTs are vastly over represented in the autistic Thunderdome.

And SF is vastly over represented on Twitter.

Anyone who’s cognitive functioning (or whatever) is confined by the senses and emotions is most likely going to end up an obnoxious NPC to the worst degree. Plus Sensing is 70+% of population and Feeling is 60+% of population. “I see current issue. Current issue makes me feel sad. Therefore, narrative narrative narrative.”

The question is: to what extent does nature select this distribution of NPCs or is it nurtured by society.

And another question: How can we influence or alter their natural NPC setting - without owning the mainstream media and big tech corps? Is it possible? (Are the SF retards trainable?)

Clearly nature favors them and society nurtures it. As others have said, a million different people trying to be the leader just leads to conflict and someone needs to sweep the floors. Trying to produce a million elites will leave 90% of them unsatisfied.
As for if SFs are trainable: that depends. xSFJ mainly just wants their to be emotional harmony and order in their life. If you can convince then to think more about their actions instead of just going with what's cool then they'll more or less just do it because they like you. Think Brett from Inside Job.
An XSFP is essentially a born hedonist. If you can convince them it gives them extra pleasure and status without too much work (and perhaps part of that comes from being a good person) then they'll do it. Think Goku from DragonBall.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

TThe no inner speech thing is fascinating. I’m never really sure what to make of it. Are they saying people literally never have any? I can accept I suppose that people may have very different ways of inner reflection, we all think in lots of different ways, verbally, images, intuition etc. but are they saying some people have literally no inner reflection at all? That’s really weird.

To be fair, if I remember the study correctly it wasn't "no inner speech" but that most (like 70%) people when randomly asked throughout the day what are they thinking reported nothing. Implying that they are just passively navigating life on autopilot for the majority of the time. Imo its not that they aren't capable of it just that they don't.

The whole thinking in words vs thinking in images is unrelated to the original study but still a fascinating concept to ponder. As someone who is constantly in my own head just thinking/talking to myself, being able to do it in images would be pretty cool. Not to be confused with visualization (at least I think, maybe i'm wrong on that. Also a super cool thing to try out), which was another thing tangentially related that pol was running with.