OMG SHOGUN IS GETTING AN FX ADAPTATION

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Bunny Wigglesworth said:
This series shames Hollywood
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If only there were some way for Hollywood to collectively cleanse themselves of their shame:
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Overall the show was really great. I have some minor quibbles, but really they're just nitpicking. Probably the best show Ive seen since Fargo ended after season 3.

The only parts that irritated me are Blacktiorne constantly being saved/not executed for what seems like pretty much no reason at all. I'm sure this is explained more in the book, but the show makes him seem constantly hated by all sides (the Osaka crew, the Portuguese and even the (future) Shogunate) but for virtually no reason everyone has to pretend like he's a bargaining chip, or at least like his death would cause an issue, when it really seems like he isn't and it wouldn't. I mean I get that Mariko sort of protects him, and obviously hes the MC, but there are a lot of times where he should've just been killed. I mean he's not a novelty, he's not valuable (especially after they already have his cannons and "tactics"), and no one important really cares for him.

It does get a bit long at parts. I guess it's more of a romance/drama than I generally care for. I didn't need a 10 min tea scene where Mariko makes peace with her cuck husband. Karate Kid 2 did it better and in like 2 minutes.

Also I know it ends where the book ends, but I totally feel ripped off not having a big samurai battle at the end.

Still, by far the best show in years.
 
I haven't read the book yet (although I do want to read it and watch the older series) but the finale subverted my expectations in a good a way. Up until episode 8 or so I kept wondering how they'd wrap up any large scale battle that might take place. I think thematically, and especially from a Japanese storytelling POV, the ending was great. The series was always character-driven and seeing things wrap up for everyone was more satisfying imo than a standard epic battle. It solidified Toranaga's strategic prowess and added more intrigue to his character (Yabushige asking him if he really wanted to be Shogun all along) and had a lot of heavy moments for Blackthorne. It left enough things open to speculate but answered all the right questions.

One of the best things I've seen in a long time. RIP to my boy Yabushige though.

Edit: also appreciated that the female characters were interesting without being complete cunts. Ochiba was way more interesting than I thought she would be. Usually when a character has an introduction like her, it's easy to guess how she'll react throughout the story. I was surprised with her plotline and thought it was refreshing.
 
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One plotline I don't get. Ochiba supposedly throws her towel with toranaga but this directly threatens her son's inheritance to become a shogun. As long as the heir lives, he and Ochiba are threat to toranaga rule. Inevitably, toranaga will either exile or kill both of them.

In real life, she supposedly fought to the last breath and died in siege battle against Tokugawa Iseyasu (insane ..and badass on its own).

Anyway, Everything about this show is poetic....every character arc finishes so completely by episode 10.
 
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RIP to my man Yabushige, all he wanted was to live through the clusterfuck of feudal politics and be funny as fuck while doing it.

Also Fuji-sama is best girl. If I was Blackthorne and saw this woman pull a gun on the guy threatening me and tell him to fuck off on pain of death, I'd fall in love right then and there.
 
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HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS said:
One plotline I don't get. Ochiba supposedly throws her towel with toranaga but this directly threatens her son's inheritance to become a shogun. As long as the heir lives, he and Ochiba are threat to toranaga rule. Inevitably, toranaga will either exile or kill both of them.

In real life, she supposedly fought to the last breath and died in siege battle against Tokugawa Iseyasu (insane ..and badass on its own).

Anyway, Everything about this show is poetic....every character arc finishes so completely by episode 10.
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We were shown how her father was a bloodthirsty maniac and the show set her up to seem like she would be willing to do anything (including large scale bloodshed) to get revenge for her father's death and to solidify her son's position on the throne. She was cold and calculated and meant to be unsettling, but the story really subverted this by showing how affected she was by Mariko. You could see the ice melt, so to speak, when she had that conversation with Mariko under the guise of speaking to Blackthorne. I thought it seemed like she was hardened into that kind of person to begin with because of the kind of upbringing she had (homicidal and powerful father) and her father's murder by people who ingratiated themselves into her and her father's lives/home under the guise of ally-ship. I don't think she was a bad person at her core, so seeing a person she loved die for a worthy cause (one that was necessitated by Ochiba's own actions) shook her out of it. It was a nice narrative conclusion to show her being more than her father and turning away from the path of murder and bloodshed. The show never says this, so it was really just how I interpreted it and I could be wrong.

I'm not really sure if she knew that Toranaga would threaten her son's position on the throne either. We see the scene of Yabushige asking Toranaga if what he really wanted was to be Shogun all along, but I don't know if this means anyone else (including Ochiba) had worked it out by that point or not. Toranaga was perceived to be very loyal to the Taikou and this included his/Ochiba's son. It seemed like Ochiba's motivations towards Toranaga in the beginning were mostly about revenge for her father. I think she likely would have assumed that Toranaga would help protect the throne for her son if she wasn't so hyper-focused on killing him for fucking over her father.

It's kind of funny though because (in real life, and maybe in the show depending on how you interpret Toranaga's motivations, since we are never given a definitive answer) she was right not to trust Toranaga in regards to her son. If he really wanted to become Shogun and overrule her son's power then she was right all along not to trust him. These are the kinds of things that the show left open-ended enough for several interpretations. I think that's one reason I enjoyed it so much.
 
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I think the legitimacy of shogunate was somewhat fluid unlike the kingship. After all, Taiko/Toyotomi Hideyori was never formally declared a shogun because he was a lowborn.

It was by this mechanism which allows Tokugawa/Minawari to claim the shogunate. After the battle of Sekigahara, Ieyasu/toranaga reigns supreme and unchallenged. Eventually, maybe because Taiko/Toyotomi were never formally shogunate, Minawari/Tokugawa could wrestle the title of shogunate from the emperor after some court intrigues.
 
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has anyone seen this yet? Is it pretty good? It's on a bit too much of a slow boil for me, it didn't really grab me the way other shows have, is it worth the wait? I've been looking for new shows to get into lately.
 
Balthier said:
but the story really subverted this by showing how affected she was by Mariko. You could see the ice melt, so to speak, when she had that conversation with Mariko under the guise of speaking to Blackthorne
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I actually hated this at first, and then enjoyed it - it's akin to the practice of fostering your children with other nobility to build up alliances without having to give up a son or daughter in marriage.
Pedophobe said:
I watched about half and yeah it wasn't a trainwreck but it was kind of pointless and at best just made me want to read the book. So congratulations Hollywood I guess, that's a win.
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I consider the show a huge success if it made people want to read the book.

Found this gem on Twitter/X:
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SaltAndGoldMine said:
I actually hated this at first, and then enjoyed it - it's akin to the practice of fostering your children with other nobility to build up alliances without having to give up a son or daughter in marriage.

I consider the show a huge success if it made people want to read the book.

Found this gem on Twitter/X:
View attachment 5967073View attachment 5967075View attachment 5967077View attachment 5967080
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Precisely the reason why toranaga can't bring himself to kill John Blackthorne, allow him to leave, and permit seppuku. Motherfucker says and does no Japanese cucks can say or do because it's death if they do. John blackthorne is toranaga's boundary breaker and that amuses him to no end. A man not bound by the rules of the society yet trapped by the very rule he grows to respect.
 
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HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS said:
Precisely the reason why toranaga can't bring himself to kill John Blackthorne, allow him to leave, and permit seppuku. Motherfucker says and does no Japanese cucks can say or do because it's death if they do. John blackthorne is toranaga's boundary breaker and that amuses him to no end. A man not bound by the rules of the society yet trapped by the very rule he grows to respect.
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He's like an angry, foul-mouthed, aggressively English version of that slave Julius Caesar had standing next to him during triumphs whispering "Remember, you are mortal." Except if Caesar also kept the guy around because he found him funny.
 
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