One Piece - I'm Gonna Be the Pirate King!

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take nearly any devil fruit and you can make it bullshit powerful if you stretch it far enough. one of the big villains was made out of fucking strings and he was able to lock down an entire country and nearly massacre everyone in it. a guy made out of mochi was able to utterly devastate luffy until he got bit by the snakeman. luffy was always special in that he was just as smart in his application of his fruit as his enemies were, the fact that it's actually some ancient freedom god's powers doesn't mean anything to him because he just thinks of it as rubber. tapping into its true power just means that reality is rubber to him. people are conflating "inherited will" with "being born special" and it's not that joy d boy was the most special boy ever, it's that the fruit is the manifestation of people's desire of their idea of who joy boy was, coming back to life and freeing everyone. it's like if you ate a martin luther king jr painting and could take the form of idealized version of him that everyone has, instead of turning into the man himself. it'd also get you banned from a lot of places, but at least you'd have a good shot at becoming the prime minister of canada.
Even if it wasn’t planned, the issue is the emotional impact, and the aspect of “Shanks using it as a way to free himself from Imu’s control” can take away from it.
That's fair, but we don't know if that was Shanks's intention yet. All we know was, Luffy ate the freedom man fruit, and then Shanks was freed from Imu's control.
 
Literally does what everyone should know it does when we saw Doffy's and Katakuri's awakening. It gives the world its properties. String, mochi, rubber.
None of these fruit were a forbbiden fruit that the WG had to cover up for years. Doffy's fruit isn't an incarnation of a String God or something like that.
It is exactly what you should have thought it was if you paid attention.
I did?....that is why I can talk about its impact on the narrative not the generalization of the fruit. If it was just Luffy being able to make the world rubber that is fine but the fact that the fruit has significance in the world as being the same fruit as "the chosen one" as @Random Internet Person said it feels less impactful.

I legit just said it being the hidden god fruit is what rubs people the wrong way not it just being a wack DF made powerful because of Luffy's creativity.
You do realize that Oda is very open about the things he did not plan, right? Clearly he planned this. He did not plan about Shank's arm though. Credit for that goes to his editor at the time.
I'm not sure what context this is for
was it for what Random said or what I added. Clearly he planned for Shanks to save Luffy but the argument is that it was an impulsive thing Shanks did to save his friend instead of some grand plan that would be more significance years later. I don't think Oda planned for it to be that important.
 
None of these fruit were a forbbiden fruit that the WG had to cover up for years. Doffy's fruit isn't an incarnation of a String God or something like that.
It is not. So? It causes a whole lot of things to turn into strings. It allows to someone to possess an entire army like puppets. The seats even saved it for someone who should be king of the world. The Nika fruit is a lot like that. A blind man should be able to tell it is powerful. It turns everything into rubber. The fact that everyone was acting like it was a weak power should have clued us in that information about it was suppressed. Not to mention that Doffy's fruit still is a Paramecia.

Also, Luffy was always destined to make waves. After the revelation of the significance of the D., Luffy was never really a random underdog. He was a key person before the Nika revelation. Nika merely served to inform us on how, not whether. We were already informed that he was the chosen one.

I did?....that is why I can talk about its impact on the narrative not the generalization of the fruit. If it was just Luffy being able to make the world rubber that is fine but the fact that the fruit has significance in the world as being the same fruit as "the chosen one" as @Random Internet Person said it feels less impactful.

I legit just said it being the hidden god fruit is what rubs people the wrong way not it just being a wack DF made powerful because of Luffy's creativity.
As I said above, Luffy was clearly meant to be the man to carry Roger's legacy and the Will of D. As for it being hidden, that was explained. The WG did not want the fruit's real symbolism to be revealed. Luffy was always set up with "Sun this, laughter that, savior of Fishman Island, FREEDOM!!!" and the revelation that Nika was a thing just tied everything together. Sharly had a prophecy about him for goodness's shake! Nika was them admitting that yes, Luffy is a chosen one. They danced around it long enough that it was obvious.

As for it being powerful because of the creativity of the user, that was the very reason for the awakening and why it is regarded as godlike. It is the fruit that rewards creativity with the power and versatility to match. It is not powerful because it is a god fruit, it is a god fruit because it is powerful at the right hands. It was just a rubber fruit at the hands of the uncreative. It take someone free and creative like Luffy to make it godly. The WG just pretended that bending reality like rubber was not part of its power set. Such a fruit SHOULD have been legendary.

I'm not sure what context this is for
was it for what Random said or what I added. Clearly he planned for Shanks to save Luffy but the argument is that it was an impulsive thing Shanks did to save his friend instead of some grand plan that would be more significance years later. I don't think Oda planned for it to be that important.
We know that he did not plan for Shanks to lose an arm. His editor pushed for that. As for how important it was meant to be, perhaps he told his editor that Imu was the Devil and made contracts with people. He might not had decided yet to make it so that the left arm was the catalyst for the contract. Perhaps Shanks was meat to overcome it differently or cut the arm later? Oda certainly plans for a whole lot more that we can imagine. He did not plan for everything though. Sometimes, he got inspired and rolled with the punches. Ace being Roger's son and the Supernovas are two more examples. What I know is that if he added something and it turned out to be important, he must have thought it should be the case. He has said that apart from some cases, the skeleton and most of the structure was decided before even the first chapter was published. There was enough leeway for future inspiration but he always considered how it would fit in the grander story. It is why it is so hard to guess what was always planned for and what came later. Everything fits.
 
🤷‍♂️I don't have the energy to respond to all of that
Yeah I agree, For example during the fight with Enel, Luffy is immue to his devil fruit powers but to counter this Enel can predict his moves. So Luffy has to come up with a plan to counter it.
Or how he used water and his blood to actually hit Crocidile. Using the natural weakness to a devil fruit created some interesting fights
 
🤷‍♂️I don't have the energy to respond to all of that
Ok. Let me sum it up. The story started to have a "Chosen One" narrative around the time of the Will of D. getting name- dropped. Every time it was mentioned later, it was getting more and more clear that it was going that route. That is my argument. It did not start with Nika.
 
Ok. Let me sum it up. The story started to have a "Chosen One" narrative around the time of the Will of D. getting name- dropped. Every time it was mentioned later, it was getting more and more clear that it was going that route. That is my argument. It did not start with Nika.
Please, it started when Kureiha doxed Roger.
 
Ok. Let me sum it up. The story started to have a "Chosen One" narrative around the time of the Will of D. getting name- dropped. Every time it was mentioned later, it was getting more and more clear that it was going that route. That is my argument. It did not start with Nika.
ok I should have been specific
I stopped caring because i didn't feel like arguing any further. Said what I needed to say and now waiting on something else interesting to be said.
 
It was like how that deep sea contract on Shanks’ arm could have changed Shanks losing his arm in the first arc and treating it like no big deal. At first it was “Shanks was trying to keep Luffy safe, even saying that Luffy’s safety mattered more than a literal limb”, now it’s also some sort of “Shanks made a tactical move to free himself from the control of Imu”, which can take away some of the emotional impact of the scene.
Him "letting it happen" has been a thing since Pre-timeskip when Topknot revealed Haki.

The contract explained the why.

Dude still lost his arm saving Luffy, the minutia is kind of irrelevant.
 
Dude still lost his arm saving Luffy, the minutia is kind of irrelevant.
The issue with this line of criticism is it is predicated on: a) characters who by this point have an effect on global events not being allowed to have special elements to them and b) events already portrayed are required to be immutable with no underlying elements being revealed later. Both these ideas are retarded and run conflict towards any narrative where your protagonist plays an active role.

Gear 5 is a great logical exaggeration of how Luffy has fought throughout the series, and the only real criticism I have towards it is Oda clearly couldn’t make good in his promise to not have Kaido get taken out with a big punch (like literally every other antagonist Luffy has beaten).
 
the only real criticism I have towards it is Oda clearly couldn’t make good in his promise to not have Kaido get taken out with a big punch (like literally every other antagonist Luffy has beaten).
I mean, at least we had plenty of attacks to soften Kaido up before hand. Lightning bolt gymnastics was crazy.
 
If anything, I think the underlying problem was complacency.

They're playing on easy mode because they've had a vague version of Immortality and Regeneration with the only way to handle it is a very niche ability. They haven't had that many challenges in centuries.
i think imu also sorta ruined the plan by taking control of gunko. but its like you said as well they have not had an actual challenge since at least rogers time when they kept trying to take shanks back.
 
Gear 5 is a great logical exaggeration of how Luffy has fought throughout the series, and the only real criticism I have towards it is Oda clearly couldn’t make good in his promise to not have Kaido get taken out with a big punch (like literally every other antagonist Luffy has beaten).
Key thing i will admit i missed with my criticism is what Kaido said to him along the lines of "You're not Joy Boy". It was also something I remember Mihawk saying during Marineford where Luffy's greatest ability is rallying people.
 
Key thing i will admit i missed with my criticism is what Kaido said to him along the lines of "You're not Joy Boy". It was also something I remember Mihawk saying during Marineford where Luffy's greatest ability is rallying people.
And then when Kaido fell into the volcano, he had a flashback talking about how Joy Boy was the one who’d beat him. Which probably indicates/sets up how things will play out in the endgame, where Luffy does something, and someone goes “this is the work of Joy Boy!”, or some prophecy relating to Joy Boy coming true.
 
And then when Kaido fell into the volcano, he had a flashback talking about how Joy Boy was the one who’d beat him. Which probably indicates/sets up how things will play out in the endgame, where Luffy does something, and someone goes “this is the work of Joy Boy!”, or some prophecy relating to Joy Boy coming true.
He will fulfill a prophecy that everyone else follows by being Luffy
 
Gear 5 is a great logical exaggeration of how Luffy has fought throughout the series, and the only real criticism I have towards it is Oda clearly couldn’t make good in his promise to not have Kaido get taken out with a big punch (like literally every other antagonist Luffy has beaten).
The punch was not enough. It was the Conqueror's Haki and the new technique that did it. If he just went the big punch route, his hand would be burned off. The technique allowed him to hit Kaidou without touching him.
 
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