One Piece - I'm Gonna Be the Pirate King!

[Avroboros]

Hi all. I took a break from the series for ~2 years or so since the end of Egghead due to how atrociously bad the pacing had gotten (and due to how confusing the beginning of the Elbaph saga was).

Can anyone here be kind enough to tell me what the FUCK has been going on?? Why the fuck does Shanks have a half-celestial dragon brother for some reason? Why THE FUCK was Queen revealed to be Franky's father all along? What the actual fuck is Oda doing at this point?

I got this video in my recommended a couple days ago and i watched it, and that's how I came to learn about some of this bullshit that's been going on, which is heartbreaking at best, and deeply badly written at worst:

 

[Random Internet Person]

Why the fuck does Shanks have a half-celestial dragon brother for some reason?

What the actual fuck is Oda doing at this point?

We are slowly reaching the endgame, where we are seeing the biggest questions of this world being answer. Also, much of the lore will be more explained the more Luffy does things while in Gear 5.

 

[Incecticyder]

Can anyone here be kind enough to tell me what the FUCK has been going on?? Why the fuck does Shanks have a half-celestial dragon brother for some reason? Why THE FUCK was Queen revealed to be Franky's father all along? What the actual fuck is Oda doing at this point?

Any plot-point can be made into bad writing if you explain it badly enough. Why the fuck does Shanks have a half-celestial dragon brother for some reason? Because twins are a thing and both are Celestial Dragons. Shanks was raised by Roger so he disagrees with the rest of his family and stays away. Why THE FUCK was Queen revealed to be Franky's father all along? It was an SBS question. People noticed that Queen's age, personality and interests matched what we knew about Franky's parents and asked Oda about it. That's it. If you do not understand the plot, consider this: You were not paying attention.

I got this video in my recommended a couple days ago and i watched it, and that's how I came to learn about some of this bullshit that's been going on, which is heartbreaking at best, and deeply badly written at worst:

That is considered one of the stupidest, most biased and moronic One Piece hit-pieces we have seen in a while. It frames everything that has happened as "THE WORST THING EVAAAAARRR!" and uses tired arguments such as "muh fanservice!" as excuses. He hates the fact that things connect together for no reason other than they do. New information that does not contradict previous knowledge is treated as bad writing because he said so. His arguments fall into arbitrated conclusions. Guys like him would dismiss the Silmallirion and the rest of Tolken's works as they fall in the same category of world building. In fact, world building is treated like a sin by hacks like this. Look at page 644 for what conversation we had regarding him and his video.

Thread 'One Piece'

Jun 11, 2018

I've been pondering making this thread for a good while now because I felt that my constant sperging kinda derailed the general Anime/Manga thread, however, my procrastination was always greater and more enveloping, but the current manga arc's hype proved far too great for me to resist.

So here you go, this thread is basically for discussing, theorizing..etc. on all things OP. Just keep any manga spoilers in spoiler brackets so things don't get ruined for the anime-only heathens (lol). Failure to do so may result in a PM from @Trombonista containing One...

• Done
• Replies: 13,796
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Reactions: x 10 x 1 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 1

Keep going until the conversation regarding it ends.

Also, do not base your understanding of everything regarding an anime from one video. Didn't you guys learn this from Super Eyepatch Wolf's Bleach hit-piece which was so badly researched that he had to make apology? Videos that are "Here is why I dropped this" are almost always filled with the worst arguments possible UNLESS the watcher knew they would not like it and just stopped watching it after a while.

 

[McMitch]

In fact, world building is treated like a sin by hacks like this.

Listen, world building is fun when you already have the rest of a story fleshed out, but most people treat it as the end-all-be-all of quality story telling. Frankly, it’s not, and even with a series like One Piece of Oda hadn’t taken the time to develop characters and a plot you actually care about than even with all the world building in the world the series would be FUCKING BORING.

 

[Incecticyder]

Listen, world building is fun when you already have the rest of a story fleshed out, but most people treat it as the end-all-be-all of quality story telling. Frankly, it’s not, and even with a series like One Piece of Oda hadn’t taken the time to develop characters and a plot you actually care about than even with all the world building in the world the series would be FUCKING BORING.

Not saying it is the only thing that matters but it is most important for epics. As story that is set in a fictional world and is meant to last 30+ years of publication better have good worldbuilding. An epic is like a sandwich. Worldbuilding is the slices of bread and the characters are the ingredients you put in-between. A sandwich needs both bread and ingredients. If you fuck up the bread, the ingredients will spill out on the floor and your hands. That Shane guy treats the worldbuilding as a bad thing. He has a problem with the fact that worldbuilding exists in One Piece period. He complains about characters that were just introduced. There is no "wait and see where the story goes with them" approach. The character exists and therefore the story sucks now. There is no criticism of the execution. It is like watching a samurai movie and complaining about it having swordfights. Not about it having BAD swordfights, just having swordfights is enough to call it bad.

It would be like someone going "One Piece sucks because this newly introduced character is underdeveloped" and you find out he is talking about Doflamingo as he was first shown after Arabasta. You did not wait for the character to get developed and show where he fits in the world. Doflamingo was mysterious until Dressrosa arc and he became a beloved antagonist since. Maybe Shamrock will be the same. Can you really judge whether a character will be relevant by just a few chapters? I do not think so. As for Shanks, what the fuck do you know about him, Shane? We knew almost nothing about him beyond Luffy, the Roger pirates, his own crew, his relationship with WB and the fact he was willing to talk to the Elder Stars. The man was a mystery. Having a brother and father is normal.

As you said, Oda develops his characters and gives you reason to care about them. EVERY ONE PIECE FAN KNOWS THAT!

 

[McMitch]

Worldbuilding is the slices of bread and the characters are the ingredients you put in-between.

World building would be the condiments. The bread is the plot and the innards of the sandwich are the characters. Without either of those two elements specifically you simply don’t have a sandwich.

 

[Incecticyder]

World building would be the condiments. The bread is the plot and the innards of the sandwich are the characters. Without either of those two elements specifically you simply don’t have a sandwich.

It depends. Imo, a world is part of the plot. At least as far as epics go. The world of One Piece is alive! It has history. It was not born when the characters were. Cultures exist and co-exist. They interfere with one another. Great events happen all over it. The characters we do not see do things when we are not looking. There are epic stories in this world's past and they inform the plot. The worldbuilding in One Piece is very intertwined with its plot. Neither exists in a vacuum. That is why I compared it to Tolkien. Both Oda and Tolkien made that kind of worldbuilding.

 

[Avroboros]

Any plot-point can be made into bad writing if you explain it badly enough. Why the fuck does Shanks have a half-celestial dragon brother for some reason? Because twins are a thing and both are Celestial Dragons. Shanks was raised by Roger so he disagrees with the rest of his family and stays away. Why THE FUCK was Queen revealed to be Franky's father all along? It was an SBS question. People noticed that Queen's age, personality and interests matched what we knew about Franky's parents and asked Oda about it. That's it. If you do not understand the plot, consider this: You were not paying attention.

I read your post and your arguments are essentially just trying to be the "Oda's lawyer" and trying to justify everything as "world building" (despite how badly executed these were, or how unnecessary these were). If I present any criticism you'll somehow spin it as the most ingenious thing Oda has ever done and that it's totally normal for [thing] to have happened so "shut up, its your fault, trust the process". There's many obvious issues with that but let me move onto your points below.

That is considered one of the stupidest, most biased and moronic One Piece hit-pieces we have seen in a while. It frames everything that has happened as "THE WORST THING EVAAAAARRR!" and uses tired arguments such as "muh fanservice!" as excuses. He hates the fact that things connect together for no reason other than they do. New information that does not contradict previous knowledge is treated as bad writing because he said so. His arguments fall into arbitrated conclusions. Guys like him would dismiss the Silmallirion and the rest of Tolken's works as they fall in the same category of world building. In fact, world building is treated like a sin by hacks like this. Look at page 644 for what conversation we had regarding him and his video.

Nope, that's not what happened ("show me you're a fanboy without explicitly saying you're a fanboy" type comment). I can easily summarize the main cores of the video's criticisms since that's the point of the video.. it's to criticize:

1. Stagnation (the idea that every arc reuses the same formula to move the story)
2. Repetition (the idea that every arc reuses the same formula to conclude itself)
3. Importance Inflation (the idea that everyone MUST be interconnected, all-powerful and meaningful)
4. Pacing (self-explanatory)
5. Fake-Urgency (the idea that an arc has no emotional stakes without some kind of time-limit)
6. Fake-Out Deaths (the idea that Oda cannot let his characters die and milks the audience's feelings)
7. Flashback Exhaustion (this ties to Pacing but still, the idea that you must re-explain a character to audience 10 times mid-arc)

I recommend you ACTUALLY watch the video and take some time to process his criticisms rather than misrepresenting them out of bad faith. This isn't a personal attack on you bro, its a fictional work written by a guy who's not perfect (no author is perfect in fact, you can have the most divine writing imaginable and still fuck-up here and there, an example of this phenomenon being Naruto).

It frames everything that has happened as "THE WORST THING EVAAAAARRR!" and uses tired arguments such as "muh fanservice!" as excuses.

This guy isn't stating that everything is "HURR DURR DA WOST THIN EVA" (Again, you're not being honest here, he's criticizing the points above^), nor did he cry about fanservice (Again, you're lying. He just stated that Brook's and Sanji's gags have gotten old after decades of constant repetition, which they did but might still entertain you if you have a perpetual toddler-level humor).

He hates the fact that things connect together for no reason other than they do. New information that does not contradict previous knowledge is treated as bad writing because he said so. His arguments fall into arbitrated conclusions.

It does present itself as bad writing tho (or if we're being generous, as nonsensical and unnecessary). The guy in the video said it well, when everyone's meaningful, important and interconnected in some way, the world starts to feel smaller, characters feel less special, achievements/milestones feel less noteworthy.

When I look at Shanks and see that his father is a God-Knight (now Gorosei) and that he's actually been a Celestial Dragon all-along with le evil powerful twin brother, the level of appreciation for where he has gotten in life feels less like hard work and more like destiny. The man has the soul of a Conqueror because his BLOOD is all-powerful. When I look at Franky and his relation to Queen, I see that he's not a genius badass cyborg because of his upbringing and personal merit, but simply because his BLOOD is that way.. it all just feels forced and restrictive rather than natural and organic. I personally have no problems with Sanji being royalty or Blackbeard being the son of Rocks (Blackbeard's backstory in particular is smart and explains many things about his character), but when everyone starts being royalty, son of a conqueror, descendant of a great-leader or all-powerful being.. it gets tiring and repetitive. Why can't Shanks just be some normal guy who became what he is through his childhood as Roger's apprentice? Isn't that just enough? Do we really have to overinflate a character's worth OVER and OVER again? Next thing Oda will tell us is that Nami is beautiful and hot-headed because she's the biological daughter of Gloriosa and Akainu... and you're gonna be there defending it by saying "errm akshyally dude this is heckin based and oda-pilled?? why did you miss the obvious hints about her beauty and her personality bro this is like, totally your heckin fault". Its unnecessary. You don't need to inflate a character or add special context to a character to make it special. I could see the appeal to Shanks being the son of a World Noble, but the whole thing with Franky is unjustifiable (HE HAS TO BE SPECIAL DON'T YOU GET IT? HE'S A CYBORG SO HIS FATHER **MUST** BE A CYBORG!! GODA DOES IT AGAIN!!).

Guys like him would dismiss the Silmallirion and the rest of Tolken's works as they fall in the same category of world building. In fact, world building is treated like a sin by hacks like this. Look at page 644 for what conversation we had regarding him and his video.

We ARE NOT talking about the same level of world building as Tolken my nigga. One Piece nowadays is far from it. Again, you're exaggerating here and talking shit on this guy because of your feelings. He's not treating world building as a sin, he's saying (and I agree) that Oda's world building has become poor as the decades followed. Its overbloated, some aspects of it are still unexplained, and while even an actual fucking mouse has a backstory and flashback, over 20 years later many characters still haven't been used in any meaningful way (Remember Dragon? I bet you're gonna say that Dragon doing jack shit and letting Ginny be raped is a good thing because he's muh strategist or something).

Keep going until the conversation regarding it ends.

Also, do not base your understanding of everything regarding an anime from one video.

That's another exaggerated statement. Just because I agree with a video doesn't mean that I based my entire understanding of the series to it (I handled the atrocious pacing and managed to watch the entire series up until Egghead, One Piece even was my favorite anime), there's many things I disagree with the creator of that video, like I said, I don't mind Sanji's and Blackbeard's backstory, it works on them because Sanji's backstory at the time was pretty surface-level and the introduction of this heritage was unexpected. And Blackbeard's work because it explains fundamental principles of his character such as ambitions, personality, his biology being different.. etc.

Didn't you guys learn this from Super Eyepatch Wolf's Bleach hit-piece which was so badly researched that he had to make apology?

Idk who this is.

Videos that are "Here is why I dropped this" are almost always filled with the worst arguments possible UNLESS the watcher knew they would not like it and just stopped watching it after a while.

Let me ask you this then. If his arguments are so terrible could you please at least explain to me what was the narrative genius behind the many fake-out deaths that occurred? Surely there must be some logical explanation for so many characters that should've been dead to still be alive right? Including: Merry (the butler), Gin, Mr 9, Miss Monday, Ingram, Pell (infamous example), Mr 2, Pagaya (the worst example I've seen of them all), Bellamy, Saul (another infamous example)... (and many others, actually watch the video and take a look at the list).

 

[Random Internet Person]

Why can't Shanks just be some normal guy who became what he is through his childhood as Roger's apprentice?

He still kind of is? The whole flashback with this arc explains how he was found by Roger as a baby, and the WG even went to Roger to return Shanks, but they refused every single time. By the time we first see him, he's already an adult, and Roger's influence on him is well established. The only thing the Shamrock reveal did was to connect him to the bigger picture of the story more than he already was by giving his hat to Luffy.

 

[Incecticyder]

I read your post and your arguments are essentially just trying to be the "Oda's lawyer" and trying to justify everything as "world building" (despite how badly executed these were, or how unnecessary these were). If I present any criticism you'll somehow spin it as the most ingenious thing Oda has ever done and that it's totally normal for [thing] to have happened so "shut up, its your fault, trust the process". There's many obvious issues with that but let me move onto your points below.

The point is that his critiques are too subjective. Not everything Oda does is genius but many of the things people complain about are not a big deal. Many just either do not pay attention or are upset that the story did not take their fanfic's route.

1. Stagnation (the idea that every arc reuses the same formula to move the story)

Using a good formula is not a bad idea on its own. What would be bad is if you do not know what makes it work and change the wrong thing. On its own, reusing a formula is what many great stories do. The Odyssey did it all the time. Do not feel the need to re-invent the wheel. There is a reason why everyone says that.

2. Repetition (the idea that every arc reuses the same formula to conclude itself)

The story takes places in islands. They always leave the island at the end because that is how such a story goes. Yes, NEARLY every arc concludes with the villain going all out but that is to be expected. The difference is in the flavor as every villain does it in a way that fits them and their character. Crocodile was a Bond villain so his bomb was a back-up plan in case his superweapon plan failed, Enel was just having a god complex and wanted to kill people with a giant thunder cloud, Spandam destroyed Enies Lobby by accident because he is an idiot, Moria absorbed a lot of shadows to become a damage sponge but was destined to lose because he was too complacent, Magellan was forced to go all out to prevent a prison escape, Hody was unprepared for everything, Caesar got cocky and allowed Luffy in melee range thinking his poison would be fast enough to save him, Doflamingo had a mental breakdown of rage and stress from his puppets escaping, BM's hunger pains were a ticking time bomb that went off and destroyed the fragility of her governance, Kaidou was actually aware of the trope and wanted to be the villain so he forced Luffy to become Joy Boy by threatening to drop Onigashima onto the capital and Saturn downfall was caused by his own hand. Every villain that concluded their arc, did it in a way that informed you of their personality and character.

But that is not all now. is it? There are arcs that end differently. Most East Blue arcs ended with the villain being a small threat all things considered. Smoker subverted things by being undefeated by Luffy until Punk Hazard. Luffy had to turn tail in terror of him. Then, Kuma turned out to be merciful in Thriller Bark even though he was working for the WG and remained undefeated by the crew. Later, Kizaru was ready to demolish everyone and the SHs were seemingly killed by Kuma who could no longer be obviously merciful and landed the third defeat in their lap. Amazon Lily ended up with Luffy never fighting Hancock at all. Marineford ended in near total defeat for everyone and Luffy lost Ace.

And that still is not all. Amazon Lily, Impel Down, Marinefort, the flashback, Dressrosa, Zou and Tottoland separated the cast and had them interact with mainly new or returning characters which changed the dynamic and atmosphere of said arcs by a lot. Repetition? These arcs changed who the main characters were temporarily! Few stories take that risk.

3. Importance Inflation (the idea that everyone MUST be interconnected, all-powerful and meaningful)

Not everyone. Just the important people. Why spend time on those that will not be important? There is not enough time for that. You have to give the screentime to those that matter now or later. I doubt that Perona is all that connected with Vivi but some people will be connected if it fits the story and explains things.

4. Pacing (self-explanatory)

Fair but most Post-Timeskip arcs have been described as easier to read binging as opposed to weekly. Dressrosa and Totto Land were regarded as tiresome until people reread them and called them masterpieces. Opinion change.

5. Fake-Urgency (the idea that an arc has no emotional stakes without some kind of time-limit)

Bullshit. There is both urgency AND emotional stakes. Arabasta had the bomb and bringing back together a country ravaged by civil war. Skypeia had a cruel god and two tribes that let past pain and beliefs cause them more suffering in the present. Enies Lobby had Robin before the Buster Call even happened. Thriller Bark had Brook and the sun. Sabaoby, Amazon Lily, Impel Down and Marinefort are obvious. Fishman Island had racism and the scars that it produces. Punk Hazard had the kids and the rest of Caesar's victims. Dressrosa had the toyfication and all that it means. Totto Land had Sanji's and Pudding's trauma and eventual tragic romance. Wano had everything basically. Egghead had Bonney and Kuma. Even without the urgency, there is emotional investment.

6. Fake-Out Deaths (the idea that Oda cannot let his characters die and milks the audience's feelings)

Fair, some deaths should have remained. Not all of them are without justification for survival.

Modern media is too quick to kill characters that it ends up losing the gravitas.

7. Flashback Exhaustion (this ties to Pacing but still, the idea that you must re-explain a character to audience 10 times mid-arc)

It depends on the flashback. Most people are interested in the lore. Could some of them be shorter? Maybe but never in ways people want.

I recommend you ACTUALLY watch the video and take some time to process his criticisms rather than misrepresenting them out of bad faith. This isn't a personal attack on you bro, its a fictional work written by a guy who's not perfect (no author is perfect in fact, you can have the most divine writing imaginable and still fuck-up here and there, an example of this phenomenon being Naruto).

I am not calling any author perfect. His arguments are in bad faith though. I can understand wanting a break but this is not it. Also, not feeling attacked.

I just wish he was better at what he was doing.

This guy isn't stating that everything is "HURR DURR DA WOST THIN EVA" (Again, you're not being honest here, he's criticizing the points above^), nor did he cry about fanservice (Again, you're lying. He just stated that Brook's and Sanji's gags have gotten old after decades of constant repetition, which they did but might still entertain you if you have a perpetual toddler-level humor).

I was being somewhat hyperbolic. That being said, the humor is mainly directed at teens. Do those gags entertain me? I personally prefer Sanji's banter with Zoro and miss the skull jokes over these two gags but I understand why Oda or the editor might decide otherwise.

It does present itself as bad writing tho (or if we're being generous, as nonsensical and unnecessary). The guy in the video said it well, when everyone's meaningful, important and interconnected in some way, the world starts to feel smaller, characters feel less special, achievements/milestones feel less noteworthy.

Why care about that? We are reaching the One Piece! Of course the people who have come this far are the important and the strong! That was the point! The characters trained hard to reach this point as everyone from now on will be strong and well connected! What is so surprising about that?! Strong people affect the world!

When I look at Shanks and see that his father is a God-Knight (now Gorosei) and that he's actually been a Celestial Dragon all-along with le evil powerful twin brother, the level of appreciation for where he has gotten in life feels less like hard work and more like destiny. The man has the soul of a Conqueror because his BLOOD is all-powerful.

Most CDs are not the warrior kings their ancestors were. Shanks and his family are rare exceptions. Their blood is not allpowerful. That is the point with CDs. They think that they are gods but they are not better than us.

When I look at Franky and his relation to Queen, I see that he's not a genius badass cyborg because of his upbringing and personal merit, but simply because his BLOOD is that way.. it all just feels forced and restrictive rather than natural and organic.

Being a genius has little to do with his father. His father kicked him out and Franky is a self-made man. Like Tony Stark. More even. Genius parents do not always have genius kids. Why is Queen a cyborg? Because he studied with Vegapunk. Why is Franky a cyborg? Because he is a badass.

We ARE NOT talking about the same level of world building as Tolken my nigga.

Now who is treating an author like he is perfect?

One Piece nowadays is far from it. Again, you're exaggerating here and talking shit on this guy because of your feelings. He's not treating world building as a sin, he's saying (and I agree) that Oda's world building has become poor as the decades followed. Its overbloated, some aspects of it are still unexplained, and while even an actual fucking mouse has a backstory and flashback, over 20 years later many characters still haven't been used in any meaningful way (Remember Dragon? I bet you're gonna say that Dragon doing jack shit and letting Ginny be raped is a good thing because he's muh strategist or something).

Mice having flashbacks and backstories and shit. No, the mice were part of other people's backstory. The world is not bloated. It is being filled. As for Dragon, he was weak. He said so. He had no resources to save Ginny. Sucks to suck. No greater plan, just no power. Do not put words into my mouth.

That's another exaggerated statement. Just because I agree with a video doesn't mean that I based my entire understanding of the series to it (I handled the atrocious pacing and managed to watch the entire series up until Egghead, One Piece even was my favorite anime), there's many things I disagree with the creator of that video, like I said, I don't mind Sanji's and Blackbeard's backstory, it works on them because Sanji's backstory at the time was pretty surface-level and the introduction of this heritage was unexpected. And Blackbeard's work because it explains fundamental principles of his character such as ambitions, personality, his biology being different.. etc.

You still let the video color your impression of the story instead of taking the time to find out for yourself. You came here with a negative opinion and assumed that he was more right than he was. If you were more neutral, it would have been better.

Idk who this is.

Look him up. Or don't. His videos did enough damage.

Merry (the butler)

Fair, he had no point after but killing characters after the Otaku killer would have been a bit too much for a new manga.

Gin

Gin was never meant to die. Poisoned but he clearly was tough.

Mr 9, Miss Monday, Ingram

Robin was acting against Crocodile.

Pell (infamous example)

Iirc, Arabasta was around the time of the 9/11 attacks so yeah...

Mr 2

He was arrested both times. They keep antidotes for Magellan's poison in there so that the prisoners can spend their lives in there.

Pagaya (the worst example I've seen of them all)

Pagaya was meant to survive as a joke. He even poked fun at that.

Bellamy

Bellamy was captured and tortured, not killed.

Saul (another infamous example)

He was always meant to survive. The attack used was Ice Time CAPSULE! Time capsules preserve and Giants are strong.

Overall, Oda tries to kill the characters that actually serve purpose with their death. He has improved in that regard. The pre-Time Skip stuff was worse. Now, he kills more characters. Thankfully, not to the point of Martin. Tired of that.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

all that aside davy jones has to fit into all of this somewhere as well. him and joyboy are for sure connected somehow given how imu reacted when rocks asked him who he was scared of more.

My running theory is that Davy is Luffy and Joyboy is effectively Shanks. With Joyboy being the inspiration that sends Davy out to sea, with Imu's resentment towards Davy I think Imu was also inspired by Joyboy but Davy was chosen as the heir so to speak. Which is what set Imu down the path of whatever the fuck he has become.

 

[Avroboros]

He still kind of is? The whole flashback with this arc explains how he was found by Roger as a baby, and the WG even went to Roger to return Shanks, but they refused every single time. By the time we first see him, he's already an adult, and Roger's influence on him is well established. The only thing the Shamrock reveal did was to connect him to the bigger picture of the story more than he already was by giving his hat to Luffy.

The problem I'm trying to get at is that its just TOO convenient. If it happens once, twice, thrice, sure (like I said, I can understand the appeal of Shanks being a World Noble since it creates some moral and biological conflict between Luffy and his Idol), but the fact that every character is connected at every facet of their lives makes it feel like Shanks was given this life purpose by God or some shit. The man has this ultra powerful and controversial bloodline, and of course HE (the one with the Celestial Dragon blood) had to be the one to be found by Roger (the man who stands against everything the Celestial Dragons stand for, second-only to Joy Boy). its cliché, and the weight of Shanks achievements feel mitigated as a result (to me at least, the reason why I'm here in this thread in the first place is because I'm genuinely curious as to how the average One Piece fan feels about this. I love the series and deep down I know I'll keep following it around, but this could've been handled so much better).

Using a good formula is not a bad idea on its own. What would be bad is if you do not know what makes it work and change the wrong thing. On its own, reusing a formula is what many great stories do. The Odyssey did it all the time. Do not feel the need to re-invent the wheel. There is a reason why everyone says that.

Normally I would agree, but One Piece's loop towards narrative arcs isn't great:

Arrive at Island -> Haha funni locals and rules -> Oh no oppressive ruler is making everyone miserable -> Meet tragic character that needs help ([insert tragic flashback]) -> Evil nigga is ambatublow the shit out of everyone -> Luffy punch baddie in the face -> Everyone laughs parties and leaves

Mind you, this series handles some of the most fucked-up topics known to man. Could you just not make something unique at least once in a while instead of dealing with every single type of traumatic event the same way? Just like pre-timeskip did, I'm literally not asking for much here.

The story takes places in islands. They always leave the island at the end because that is how such a story goes. Yes, NEARLY every arc concludes with the villain going all out but that is to be expected. The difference is in the flavor as every villain does it in a way that fits them and their character. Crocodile was a Bond villain so his bomb was a back-up plan in case his superweapon plan failed, Enel was just having a god complex and wanted to kill people with a giant thunder cloud, Spandam destroyed Enies Lobby by accident because he is an idiot, Moria absorbed a lot of shadows to become a damage sponge but was destined to lose because he was too complacent, Magellan was forced to go all out to prevent a prison escape, Hody was unprepared for everything, Caesar got cocky and allowed Luffy in melee range thinking his poison would be fast enough to save him, Doflamingo had a mental breakdown of rage and stress from his puppets escaping, BM's hunger pains were a ticking time bomb that went off and destroyed the fragility of her governance, Kaidou was actually aware of the trope and wanted to be the villain so he forced Luffy to become Joy Boy by threatening to drop Onigashima onto the capital and Saturn downfall was caused by his own hand. Every villain that concluded their arc, did it in a way that informed you of their personality and character.

But that is not all now. is it? There are arcs that end differently. Most East Blue arcs ended with the villain being a small threat all things considered. Smoker subverted things by being undefeated by Luffy until Punk Hazard. Luffy had to turn tail in terror of him. Then, Kuma turned out to be merciful in Thriller Bark even though he was working for the WG and remained undefeated by the crew. Later, Kizaru was ready to demolish everyone and the SHs were seemingly killed by Kuma who could no longer be obviously merciful and landed the third defeat in their lap. Amazon Lily ended up with Luffy never fighting Hancock at all. Marineford ended in near total defeat for everyone and Luffy lost Ace.

And that still is not all. Amazon Lily, Impel Down, Marinefort, the flashback, Dressrosa, Zou and Tottoland separated the cast and had them interact with mainly new or returning characters which changed the dynamic and atmosphere of said arcs by a lot. Repetition? These arcs changed who the main characters were temporarily! Few stories take that risk.

You're essentially just saying this repetition is fine because the villain is different and so the way it happens is SLIGHTLY different. Bro.. This is like me looking at an alarm clock 24/7 and finding it interesting because the clock changes color and makes a different sound each minute that passes (pretty exaggerated analogy but surely you must get what I mean). If the same formula happens OVER AND OVER again, whats even the point? You can literally predict how the arc will end, Ayo timed-event is happening?? death doesn't exist so nobody relevant will actually die, luffy will punch baddie in the face and everyone will celebrate. Post-timeskip arcs are the worst offenders, practically every arc I've seen from these modern arcs repeat the same fucking pattern verbatim, unlike how pre-timeskip arcs at least had some variation to it.

Not everyone. Just the important people. Why spend time on those that will not be important? There is not enough time for that. You have to give the screentime to those that matter now or later. I doubt that Perona is all that connected with Vivi but some people will be connected if it fits the story and explains things.

Why care about that? We are reaching the One Piece! Of course the people who have come this far are the important and the strong! That was the point! The characters trained hard to reach this point as everyone from now on will be strong and well connected! What is so surprising about that?! Strong people affect the world!

That's not what I'm talking about at all. its not about "Important people" (like duh no shit nobody wants to see 50 episodes about the Foxy Pirates while Luffy is fighting all the Gorosei at once), its about the "worth of important people" and the convenience behind their stories (I have never even addressed strength whatsoever, and no shit everyone needs to train hard and be strong, you're misrepresenting my point). Like I replied to the other dude above, how fucking convenient for example is it that Franky (a cyborg) JUST HAPPENS to have a cyborg for a father. Luffy JUST HAPPENS to have grown up with the Pirate King's son (which I'm not against I always liked Ace and this backstory, but like, fucking hell bruh). Everyone simply JUST HAPPENS to descend from one another. EVERYONE (that's at least relevant to the story to some degree) is special and has the blood of kings and Gods.. you cannot have someone with a relatively normal or humble background anymore that's simply forging his own legend. Again, this makes the world of One Piece feel smaller and smaller. I will not stress this enough, the Franky and Queen shit was the tipping point.

Mark my words, the day Oda announces that Nami is indeed a descendant of the Rocks Pirates, Amazon Lily or the Admirals or some shit and that she's the legendary super sandler lunarian that was once Nefertari D. Lili's grandmother that's actually Imu's daughter all along and we as the readers could've predicted this because her back tingled once in Chapter 69 of the Little St James Arc.. is the day I will enact great and holy jihad against that man and rape him (bismillah may Prophet Daniel Larson protect me).

Fair but most Post-Timeskip arcs have been described as easier to read binging as opposed to weekly. Dressrosa and Totto Land were regarded as tiresome until people reread them and called them masterpieces. Opinion change.

You cannot defend the pacing, we're not doing this shit.

Bullshit. There is both urgency AND emotional stakes. Arabasta had the bomb and bringing back together a country ravaged by civil war. Skypeia had a cruel god and two tribes that let past pain and beliefs cause them more suffering in the present. Enies Lobby had Robin before the Buster Call even happened. Thriller Bark had Brook and the sun. Sabaoby, Amazon Lily, Impel Down and Marinefort are obvious. Fishman Island had racism and the scars that it produces. Punk Hazard had the kids and the rest of Caesar's victims. Dressrosa had the toyfication and all that it means. Totto Land had Sanji's and Pudding's trauma and eventual tragic romance. Wano had everything basically. Egghead had Bonney and Kuma. Even without the urgency, there is emotional investment.

Remove the bomb or similar timed-events and you tell me if its gonna be the same level of urgency. Only the "emotional stakes" (doing a lot of heavy-lifting here) will remain. Just because you have a narrative point doesn't automatically mean that the emotional investment is genuine. If I know with 100% certainty that the character won't die and will be rescued the moment Luffy punch baddie, is that a real stake? I have seen this happen over, and over, and over, and over, and over.. again. Why should I care about Doflamingo's birdcage if I know it won't matter? Why should I care about Bartholomeo being one-shot by Yasopp if I know he's alive? I haven't seen an actual grave and funeral, so I will assume a character is fine and alright (One Piece has explicitly taught this, you cannot trust what it says).

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The point is that his critiques are too subjective. Not everything Oda does is genius but many of the things people complain about are not a big deal. Many just either do not pay attention or are upset that the story did not take their fanfic's route.

It depends on the flashback. Most people are interested in the lore. Could some of them be shorter? Maybe but never in ways people want.

Bro.. We are over 1100 chapters deep into this. we don't need to see Sanji feeding a rat 10 times in a single chapter, we don't need to see Robin crying and Ohara burning just because a poneglyph was mentioned.. We GET IT, WE KNOW these characters, we have been balls deep inside this series for YEARS. Flashbacks are supposed to be used when someone is new to the series and is learning about a character for the first times. We have seen these flashbacks so many fucking times that I'm personally at the risk of MEMORIZING their dialogues, thats how bad this pacing is. We don't need this.

I am not calling any author perfect. His arguments are in bad faith though. I can understand wanting a break but this is not it. Also, not feeling attacked.

I just wish he was better at what he was doing.

How is presenting criticism and asking questions bad faith?

I was being somewhat hyperbolic. That being said, the humor is mainly directed at teens. Do those gags entertain me? I personally prefer Sanji's banter with Zoro and miss the skull jokes over these two gags but I understand why Oda or the editor might decide otherwise.

Teens =/= Toddlers. I started watching One Piece as a teen and I chuckled or eye-rolled once or twice, that's all. Its repetitive humor from decades ago (Thriller Bark aired in 2008 ), its time for Oda to move on and let Brook mature as a character (Sanji can keep being pervy but no more nosebleeds that put the lives of everyone at risk like in Fish-Man Island please).

Now who is treating an author like he is perfect?

I'm not. I don't care about Tolkien, I'm saying that Tolkien makes better world building than Oda, hence why you can't compare them.

As for Dragon, he was weak. He said so. He had no resources to save Ginny. Sucks to suck. No greater plan, just no power. Do not put words into my mouth.

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Bruh. See? This is exactly the problem I mentioned when it comes to you. Any criticism anyone brings up that targets the writing and narrative point will automatically be countered by you as "Nuh uh character said so". Your excuse for Shanks' backstory and having an evil twin? "Twins are a thing" (when I wasn't talking about the character on a superficial level, I'm talking about Oda's writing). Besides, even the in-lore explanation for Dragon's "actions" don't make sense. Man is the head of the largest Anti-Government organization in the World (an actual army with Army Groups and Divisions scattered across the globe), has some of the strongest motherfuckers in the world part of his army, knows who took Ginny, knows an approximation of where she was taken.. His course of action?

>Does absolutely jack shit
>"Hurr Durr all according to plan" having ass

Not even an effort for 2 fucking years, not even lifting his finger to save someone that was supposedly his friend, someone that's close to Kuma and the rest of the Revolutionaries (remember Iva?). Absolutely jack shit (despite the fact that the Revolutionary Army already raided Mary Geoise multiple times in the past). He let her become Celestial Dragon Fleshlight and let Kuma raise the Rape-baby. "Hurr durr we have no resources", how about you get your fat ass out of that couch and actually do something yourself if thats the case, Ging Freecss ass nigga.

He has been "according to plan" for over 1000 chapters, and didn't do shit to save Iva and Inazuma from Impel Down either. The fact that you sit there and think this is justifiable and totally normal just shows that you're a bootlicker who refuses to think and push back against anything presented to you by the story. No matter what Oda says or does, you'll be there to wipe his ass for him.

You still let the video color your impression of the story instead of taking the time to find out for yourself. You came here with a negative opinion and assumed that he was more right than he was. If you were more neutral, it would have been better.

No. Most of the criticisms presented in the video were already things I thought of while watching the series and reading the manga (the worst offender being the Pacing obviously). The video only revealed to me the nonsense that was revealed during the Elbaph saga, since I spent 2 years in the dark.

Fair, he had no point after but killing characters after the Otaku killer would have been a bit too much for a new manga.

Whatchu talking about chief?

Gin was never meant to die. Poisoned but he clearly was tough.

The gas was treated as a death-sentence, everyone desperately scrambled for masks and tried to avoid it like the plague. If you can survive that shit through bullshit toughness then why bother with the masks? Luffy and half of Baratie could've survived that too.

Robin was acting against Crocodile.

>Mr.9 and Miss Monday essentially ate fucking grenades to the face by Mr. 5. Zero lasting effects whatsoever despite Vivi's horror at the sight

>Ingram ate an Island-sized nuke to the face and came back with a single Band-Aid to the face.

Get out of here.. And what are you even talking about.

Iirc, Arabasta was around the time of the 9/11 attacks so yeah...

The Arabasta arc was written between 2000-2002. You're telling me that a character that was meant to sacrifice himself by carrying what's essentially a nuke to the sky in a Japanese anime couldn't die because muh 9/11? Despite how ludicrous the argument is and how many equally ridiculous fake-out deaths also occurred?



Not even any missing limbs or genuinely meaningful physical debilitations either btw. GODA IS COOKING.

He was arrested both times. They keep antidotes for Magellan's poison in there so that the prisoners can spend their lives in there.

Magellan: "Do you have any last words?"
Bon Clay: "I have no regrets."
Magellan: "XD aight fam you good I'm not killing you anymore here have the antidote XD"

Pagaya was meant to survive as a joke. He even poked fun at that.

No shit. "I'm sorry for being alive" having ass. You're perfectly fine with Oda throwing any semblance of logic and integrity (cheap ass emotional manipulation again) for a joke? Fucking Pagaya didn't even end up with a scratch, that motherfucker was as pristine as Walter White's methamphetamine. Absolutely impeccable down to the molecular level.

Bellamy was captured and tortured, not killed.

Let's remind ourselves of what happened through the official One Piece Wiki shall we?:

News of Bellamy's defeat spread quickly, and within three days Doflamingo personally descended on Mock Town to deliver punishment, using his powers to force Bellamy into a deathmatch against Sarquiss. Knowing he had disgraced the Donquixote flag, Bellamy could only argue that he had been trying to prevent the Straw Hats from posing a future threat to Doflamingo, and beg in vain for another chance. Unconcerned, Doflamingo declared that Bellamy was no longer needed, made Sarquiss land a finishing blow, and left the remnants of the Bellamy Pirates in helpless terror. Against all odds, however, Bellamy survived.

He was always meant to survive. The attack used was Ice Time CAPSULE! Time capsules preserve and Giants are strong.

Oda milked the shit out of Saul's "death" for decades and we're supposed to accept that it makes sense that he's alive over some attack technicality? Aokiji didn't kill him for some reason (he already respected Saul's final wish and let Robin go, but I guess Aokiji also let him go because he was feeling generous that day), neither any of the Marines that surrounded the island and came right after (truly, they cannot simply put an end to a mortally wounded 2km tall giant that betrayed them). Aight bro, you do you.

Overall, Oda tries to kill the characters that actually serve purpose with their death. He has improved in that regard. The pre-Time Skip stuff was worse. Now, he kills more characters. Thankfully, not to the point of Martin. Tired of that.

You mean Pedro? Can you tell me what his death achieved?

Nvm sorry I'm asking too many questions I forgot asking questions is bad faith!

Still, I am genuinely curious how you'd justify the dozens of fake-out deaths that I haven't listed (Pekoms being the worst one.. buddy had 3 "deaths", and since there's no grave or funeral, we can assume he's alive). You need to remember that just because you criticize a series doesn't mean you inherently hate it. I can list you any of my favorite pieces of media and at the same time give you X examples of nonsense present in them. Stop trying so hard to justify all this, bad writing is bad writing.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

(like duh no shit nobody wants to see 50 episodes about the Foxy Pirates while Luffy is fighting all the Gorosei at once)

Speak for yourself.

 

[McMitch]

[extensive sperging]

No one’s going to read your essay on why One Piece is bad. Every couple of months some sperg decides to regurgitate every criticism of the series he collected from 4chan here; no one in this thread, outside maybe one or two other retards, is going to agree with you.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

No one’s going to read your essay on why One Piece is bad. Every couple of months some sperg decides to regurgitate every criticism of the series he collected from 4chan here; no one in this thread, outside maybe one or two other retards, is going to agree with you.

The fact that complaints are becoming more frequent is evidence of their validity. Meanwhile, the people who say that there's nothing wrong and the series is better than ever has whittled down to just three very angry, incredibly stupid posters.

 

[Incecticyder]

The problem I'm trying to get at is that its just TOO convenient. If it happens once, twice, thrice, sure (like I said, I can understand the appeal of Shanks being a World Noble since it creates some moral and biological conflict between Luffy and his Idol), but the fact that every character is connected at every facet of their lives makes it feel like Shanks was given this life purpose by God or some shit. The man has this ultra powerful and controversial bloodline, and of course HE (the one with the Celestial Dragon blood) had to be the one to be found by Roger (the man who stands against everything the Celestial Dragons stand for, second-only to Joy Boy). its cliché, and the weight of Shanks achievements feel mitigated as a result (to me at least, the reason why I'm here in this thread in the first place is because I'm genuinely curious as to how the average One Piece fan feels about this. I love the series and deep down I know I'll keep following it around, but this could've been handled so much better).

It was a coincidence. Anything could be "convenient" if you try hard enough. Luffy finding a man like Zoro as his crewmate. Finding a master navigator. Finding an expert sniper who happens to be the son of his friend. Finding a modified human who can fight and cook. Finding a princess just in time to save the kingdom. Finding a doctor in time to save Nami. Finding the LAST scholar alive who is necessary to finding One Piece. Finding a shipwright that can create a sci-fi ship to fight enemies with sci-fi weapons on a 18th Century based story. Finding a musician who can fight and has connection with a previous character. Finding the best helmsman in the world. See how that works? And that is just the crew. There are tons of convenient coincidences in every story ever. Especially one that has been published for almost THIRTY YEARS!

Arrive at Island -> Haha funni locals and rules -> Oh no oppressive ruler is making everyone miserable -> Meet tragic character that needs help ([insert tragic flashback]) -> Evil nigga is ambatublow the shit out of everyone -> Luffy punch baddie in the face -> Everyone laughs parties and leaves

Ignoring the arcs that change stuff around of course.

East Blue largely ignored this formula.

Arabasta had a good ruler and was a normal country with little weirdness. The tragic character of the arc was introduced much earlier.

LRLL was not a traditional country, hardly any citizens were met and no king. Foxy was a joke villain and not tragic character or threat of destruction.

Water 7 has a good ruler, the locals and their rules are normal, the tragic character that needed help was introduced much earlier. Nothing was destroyed as the city was build to withstand the waves. Overall, the arc ended with a defeat with no one celebrating.

Enies Lobby was an invasion at a base. Had a boss that did not oppress, just mismanage. No new tragic character. The blowing shit up was NOT part of the villain's plan. Arc ends with the crew losing their beloved ship with a lot of crying.

Post-Enies Lobby is a mini-arc and had no new island so there is little conflict beyond Garp half-assing his work.

Thriller Bark was an island that was made into a ship and thus had a captain. The oppressed people were largely left alone as their deaths would ruin the zombies. Nothing was blown up or caused large scale damage as Kuma was holding back.

Sabaoby had a lot of the formula in order to lull the audience into sense of ease only to turn things around by having them be defeated.

Amazon Lily had a cruel ruler but not an oppressive one. Said ruler was also the person with the tragic backstory. Nothing was blown up or even threatened to. Luffy left with urgency rather than celebration.

Impel Down had a warden, not a traditional ruler nor a country. The warden was not too kind but he was not supposed to be. Blowing up the prison was not in the cards.

Marinefort was a base. Had a boss that was a boss rather than a king or something. No oppressed people or wacky rules. Destroying the island was something the bad guys wanted to prevent apart from BB and the arc ended in defeat as Ace and WB died.

Fishman Island had a good king who did not oppress. The bad guy was an unsurper.

Punk Hazard had no oppressive ruler, just a deceiving boss. Not a country or wacky rules.

Dressrosa had a king that was beloved as Doflamingo had everyone fooled. It also had multiple tragic flashback characters, one of whom was the villain.

Zou had no evil kings. The crew did not fight the main bad guy either. No new tragic flashback character either. The crew left in urgency due to Sanji.

Totto Land was weird. BM was beloved and feared by the population but was not really oppressive. Most citizens liked her rule until the SHs orchestrated events that caused her to go berserk.

Egghead had no real king, just a head scientist. No one was oppressed either. The tragic flashback characters are old ones who were not introduced here.

As for Elbaf, it has yet to conclude.

Overall, only Skypeia and Wano truly follow that formula. Arabasta and Dressrosa less so. The rest of the arcs change things around though.

Mind you, this series handles some of the most fucked-up topics known to man. Could you just not make something unique at least once in a while instead of dealing with every single type of traumatic event the same way? Just like pre-timeskip did, I'm literally not asking for much here.

We are reaching the deepest layer of the truths that the WG wants to hide. Of course things get darker.

You're essentially just saying this repetition is fine because the villain is different and so the way it happens is SLIGHTLY different. Bro.. This is like me looking at an alarm clock 24/7 and finding it interesting because the clock changes color and makes a different sound each minute that passes (pretty exaggerated analogy but surely you must get what I mean). If the same formula happens OVER AND OVER again, whats even the point? You can literally predict how the arc will end, Ayo timed-event is happening?? death doesn't exist so nobody relevant will actually die, luffy will punch baddie in the face and everyone will celebrate. Post-timeskip arcs are the worst offenders, practically every arc I've seen from these modern arcs repeat the same fucking pattern verbatim, unlike how pre-timeskip arcs at least had some variation to it.

As I said above, the formula changes. As for no one relevant dying, what are you even talking about. Just recently we had Vegapunk die. Yasuie, Izo and Asura died. Orochi, BM, Kaidou and Kanjuro for the villains died. CP0 guys died. Pedro died too. You cannot just kill characters without taking into consideration what you cannot do anymore with them. Characters have to die AFTER the story is done with them, not before.

Bro.. We are over 1100 chapters deep into this. we don't need to see Sanji feeding a rat 10 times in a single chapter, we don't need to see Robin crying and Ohara burning just because a poneglyph was mentioned.. We GET IT, WE KNOW these characters, we have been balls deep inside this series for YEARS. Flashbacks are supposed to be used when someone is new to the series and is learning about a character for the first times. We have seen these flashbacks so many fucking times that I'm personally at the risk of MEMORIZING their dialogues, thats how bad this pacing is. We don't need this.

Look, you can not like the fact that the pacing is sometimes wack. Criticism like that is valid. But most of the flashbacks teach a lot of things we did not know. Rocks, Roger, Noland, Oden, you name it. Most of these flashbacks show new things.

We did not know that Ohara had been warned by the WG before for example.

How is presenting criticism and asking questions bad faith?

When a bit of research answers everything, it is bad faith.

Teens =/= Toddlers. I started watching One Piece as a teen and I chuckled or eye-rolled once or twice, that's all. Its repetitive humor from decades ago (Thriller Bark aired in 2008 ), its time for Oda to move on and let Brook mature as a character (Sanji can keep being pervy but no more nosebleeds that put the lives of everyone at risk like in Fish-Man Island please).

Sanji has been largely keeping things under some control after a while. Fishman Island had mermaids and he was with the Okama for TWO YEARS! It has gotten better with every arc.

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Bruh. See? This is exactly the problem I mentioned when it comes to you. Any criticism anyone brings up that targets the writing and narrative point will automatically be countered by you as "Nuh uh character said so". Your excuse for Shanks' backstory and having an evil twin? "Twins are a thing" (when I wasn't talking about the character on a superficial level, I'm talking about Oda's writing). Besides, even the in-lore explanation for Dragon's "actions" don't make sense. Man is the head of the largest Anti-Government organization in the World (an actual army with Army Groups and Divisions scattered across the globe), has some of the strongest motherfuckers in the world part of his army, knows who took Ginny, knows an approximation of where she was taken.. His course of action?

>Does absolutely jack shit
>"Hurr Durr all according to plan" having ass

Not even an effort for 2 fucking years, not even lifting his finger to save someone that was supposedly his friend, someone that's close to Kuma and the rest of the Revolutionaries (remember Iva?). Absolutely jack shit (despite the fact that the Revolutionary Army already raided Mary Geoise multiple times in the past). He let her become Celestial Dragon Fleshlight and let Kuma raise the Rape-baby. "Hurr durr we have no resources", how about you get your fat ass out of that couch and actually do something yourself if thats the case, Ging Freecss ass nigga.

He has been "according to plan" for over 1000 chapters, and didn't do shit to save Iva and Inazuma from Impel Down either. The fact that you sit there and think this is justifiable and totally normal just shows that you're a bootlicker who refuses to think and push back against anything presented to you by the story. No matter what Oda says or does, you'll be there to wipe his ass for him.

Are you expecting the RA to fight the WG and the demons that infest it just like that? Even the ROCKS PIRATES lost that fight when Imu showed a FRACTION of his power! What if Imu possessed the RA? What if he summoned the immortal God's Knights? He is taking things slow because he knows that taking them on directly would only lead to demonic possession and death!! MY DUDE! READ THE STORY!! Yes, he runs the strongest anti-WG organization, he is still a relatively small fry when bigger fries have been crushed!

Even BB Pirates could force the RA to run! They are not that strong!

No. Most of the criticisms presented in the video were already things I thought of while watching the series and reading the manga (the worst offender being the Pacing obviously). The video only revealed to me the nonsense that was revealed during the Elbaph saga, since I spent 2 years in the dark.

Anything can be made out to be bad. Most agree that while the pacing of the arc has not been great, the arc overall has been entertaining.

Whatchu talking about chief?

The Otaku Killer! Look him up! Manga was not allowed to show too much violence because they were blamed for his actions! Late 90s and 2000s manga were affected and toned down their themes. You do not do research!

The gas was treated as a death-sentence, everyone desperately scrambled for masks and tried to avoid it like the plague. If you can survive that shit through bullshit toughness then why bother with the masks? Luffy and half of Baratie could've survived that too.

If you use poisons, you must have antidotes too. It is normal.

>Mr.9 and Miss Monday essentially ate fucking grenades to the face by Mr. 5. Zero lasting effects whatsoever despite Vivi's horror at the sight

>Ingram ate an Island-sized nuke to the face and came back with a single Band-Aid to the face.

Get out of here.. And what are you even talking about.

Mr.9 and Ms. Monday I think makes sense due to what I said above with the Otaku Killer. Sucks but still.

Ingram was "killed" by Robin because she wanted to sabotage Crocodile. She wanted the Poneglyph, not the villain's victory.

The Arabasta arc was written between 2000-2002. You're telling me that a character that was meant to sacrifice himself by carrying what's essentially a nuke to the sky in a Japanese anime couldn't die because muh 9/11? Despite how ludicrous the argument is and how many equally ridiculous fake-out deaths also occurred?



Not even any missing limbs or genuinely meaningful physical debilitations either btw. GODA IS COOKING.

Yes, the biggest terrorist attack affected the entire world. Who knew?

Magellan: "Do you have any last words?"
Bon Clay: "I have no regrets."
Magellan: "XD aight fam you good I'm not killing you anymore here have the antidote XD"

If he was planning to incapacitate him and let him freeze to death, it makes sense as to why these would be said. For all Magellan knew, Mr.2 would die a slow death. He did not know about 5-5.

No shit. "I'm sorry for being alive" having ass. You're perfectly fine with Oda throwing any semblance of logic and integrity (cheap ass emotional manipulation again) for a joke? Fucking Pagaya didn't even end up with a scratch, that motherfucker was as pristine as Walter White's methamphetamine. Absolutely impeccable down to the molecular level.

We have seen people walking off lightning even on camera. Reality is unrealistic.

Let's remind ourselves of what happened through the official One Piece Wiki shall we?:

News of Bellamy's defeat spread quickly, and within three days Doflamingo personally descended on Mock Town to deliver punishment, using his powers to force Bellamy into a deathmatch against Sarquiss. Knowing he had disgraced the Donquixote flag, Bellamy could only argue that he had been trying to prevent the Straw Hats from posing a future threat to Doflamingo, and beg in vain for another chance. Unconcerned, Doflamingo declared that Bellamy was no longer needed, made Sarquiss land a finishing blow, and left the remnants of the Bellamy Pirates in helpless terror. Against all odds, however, Bellamy survived.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EsjwVu_ihKU

He survived. People can survive things that could have killed them. Zoro did too. Luffy too. In real life, it happens all the time in real life.

Oda milked the shit out of Saul's "death" for decades and we're supposed to accept that it makes sense that he's alive over some attack technicality? Aokiji didn't kill him for some reason (he already respected Saul's final wish and let Robin go, but I guess Aokiji also let him go because he was feeling generous that day), neither any of the Marines that surrounded the island and came right after (truly, they cannot simply put an end to a mortally wounded 2km tall giant that betrayed them). Aight bro, you do you.

He did not kill him because he LOVED him! They were friends!

A lot of the Island was fine even after the bombing too. We saw that on the flashback. Why aim at a giant you think is dead anyway?

You mean Pedro? Can you tell me what his death achieved?

Nvm sorry I'm asking too many questions I forgot asking questions is bad faith!

Still, I am genuinely curious how you'd justify the dozens of fake-out deaths that I haven't listed (Pekoms being the worst one.. buddy had 3 "deaths", and since there's no grave or funeral, we can assume he's alive). You need to remember that just because you criticize a series doesn't mean you inherently hate it. I can list you any of my favorite pieces of media and at the same time give you X examples of nonsense present in them. Stop trying so hard to justify all this, bad writing is bad writing.

Pedro delayed BM and crippled one of her best combatants. BM Pirates wanted to capture Pekoms alive and probably did. Those things were explained. How about you actually read the story?

The fact that complaints are becoming more frequent is evidence of their validity. Meanwhile, the people who say that there's nothing wrong and the series is better than ever has whittled down to just three very angry, incredibly stupid posters.

No one is saying the story is perfect, I am saying that this guy nitpicks for things to complain about and ignores actual issues with the arcs.

 

[McMitch]

The fact that complaints are becoming more frequent is evidence of their validity. Meanwhile, the people who say that there's nothing wrong and the series is better than ever has whittled down to just three very angry, incredibly stupid posters.

Absolute retard logic. The increase in criticism, both positive and negative, is a consequence of the series becoming more popular. The fact the negative criticism amounts to the same handful of YouTube-derived talking points (themselves pulled from /a/), many of which are supposed to marks against Oda despite being foundational to serialized media if not storytelling in general, are indicative of the less-than-midwits attempting to put something down due to its popularity. If you had things your way the series would be about nobodies losing everything to accomplish nothing.

tl;dr you are a retard whose opinion is formed by other people slightly less retarded.

 

[Lone Star]

He was always meant to survive. The attack used was Ice Time CAPSULE! Time capsules preserve and Giants are strong.

I'm not interested in reading these huge slapfights to see if this was mentioned, but we literally saw Robin and Luffy both being frozen solid similar to Saul and both survived just fine. So Saul being frozen right near huge flames isn't too terribly far of a reach.

 

[Incecticyder]

I'm not interested in reading these huge slapfights to see if this was mentioned, but we literally saw Robin and Luffy both being frozen solid similar to Saul and both survived just fine. So Saul being frozen right near huge flames isn't too terribly far of a reach.

Giants can withstand explosions in the stomach. That should tell you everything.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

My running theory is that Davy is Luffy and Joyboy is effectively Shanks. With Joyboy being the inspiration that sends Davy out to sea, with Imu's resentment towards Davy I think Imu was also inspired by Joyboy but Davy was chosen as the heir so to speak. Which is what set Imu down the path of whatever the fuck he has become.

so imu would be blackbeard in a way? he wants the power for himself and believes he is meant to be king of the world.

I'm not interested in reading these huge slapfights to see if this was mentioned, but we literally saw Robin and Luffy both being frozen solid similar to Saul and both survived just fine. So Saul being frozen right near huge flames isn't too terribly far of a reach.

i always just went under the assumption that aokiji never had any intent of killing them so he used his powers in a way that would freeze them but not kill them. its why his fights with garp and sakazuki are more brutal because he was fighting to kill them.