Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

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Updates on Stack Overflow since people seem to be interested:

Sara Chipps talks about how the CoC is updated to be really specific about using pronouns, (as mentioned in the comments, the shoe-horned "text diffs" are incorrect)

https://stackoverflow.blog/2019/10/10/iterating-on-inclusion/?cb=1

Funnily enough one community member has asked if comments regarding pronouns should be removed like "thank you"s in posts
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/ques...ouns-qualify-the-same-way-as-a-thank-you?cb=1
https://web.archive.org/web/2019101...ouns-qualify-the-same-way-as-a-thank-you?cb=1

The downvoted answers are always entertaining to read.
One suggests "I have posted a feature suggestion in the FAQ to allow presenting one's preferred pronoun as a label next to the user name." Another says to leave pronoun mentions alone. The most downvoted is from a moderator rolling over who says "We will be rolling back edits that remove personal pronouns from posts, and with repeated behavior of editing out personal pronouns we will conduct our normal intervention process that we use for all infractions."
 
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Updates on Stack Overflow since people seem to be interested:

Sara Chipps talks about how the CoC is updated to be really specific about using pronouns, (as mentioned in the comments, the shoe-horned "text diffs" are incorrect)

https://stackoverflow.blog/2019/10/10/iterating-on-inclusion/?cb=1

Funnily enough one community member has asked if comments regarding pronouns should be removed like "thank you"s in posts
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/ques...ouns-qualify-the-same-way-as-a-thank-you?cb=1
https://web.archive.org/web/2019101...ouns-qualify-the-same-way-as-a-thank-you?cb=1

The downvoted answers are always entertaining to read.
One suggests "I have posted a feature suggestion in the FAQ to allow presenting one's preferred pronoun as a label next to the user name." Another says to leave pronoun mentions alone. The most downvoted is from a moderator rolling over who says "We will be rolling back edits that remove personal pronouns from posts, and with repeated behavior of editing out personal pronouns we will conduct our normal intervention process that we use for all infractions."
Absolutely none of this is in any way relevant to answering or asking questions. Holy fuck what is wrong with SO.
 
Absolutely none of this is in any way relevant to answering or asking questions. Holy fuck what is wrong with SO.

As soon as an organization contracts social justice cancer, it's no longer about its original purpose. It's only about social justice and metastasizing social justice to other things. So whatever it is you liked about that organization is gone. It's pronouns from here on in.
 
As soon as an organization contracts social justice cancer, it's no longer about its original purpose. It's only about social justice and metastasizing social justice to other things. So whatever it is you liked about that organization is gone. It's pronouns from here on in.
The similarities to cancer are uncanny. The organism cells lose their original function and only multiply and spread to other tissue, strangling and suffocating healthy tissue until the host dies.
Reminds me of this:
 
Absolutely none of this is in any way relevant to answering or asking questions. Holy fuck what is wrong with SO.
I am not sure if it is out of genuine Stack Overflow employee beliefs or a desperate need to virtue signal coming from upper management. From a business perspective the community creates 99% of the content of the site (other stack overflow company attempts at monetizing such as stack overflow teams or ad placements might not have worked: bad ads, malware?) so they should really keep their userbase happy. They are not swimming in money and so in a place to ignore their community mods and uers.
 
I looked it up and it is a few finance companies and a long list of niche tasks. Also to be clear my intellectual masturbation quote is about whoever said we don't use FP languages because they are too powerful or some crap like that. It's also not a good fit for lots of general purpose programming where we can't boil everything down into nice math-like functions.

Anyway pretty much every reason I can come up with is already stated here
https://softwareengineering.stackex...more-popular-in-the-industry-does-it-catch-on


This is disingenuous to call modern computers basically Moore machines. You can try to draw out an FSM for an Intel or ARM processor as an exercise in futility. At least do what CS papers do and call computers random-access machines.

I don't wish to continue this essentially academic debate. /g/ already has enough circlejerk from what I've seen.
>"here's some good programming languages not filled with pajeets copy/pasting code from StackExchange"
>lol nobody uses this intellectual wank
>"lots of people use it, here's a list"
>that's niche and doesn't count (lol who uses banks or telephones anyway?), here's a StackExchange link


Decent bait, I'll admit.
 
idk the point in being misleading in what I say. Go back to /g/ if you want to continue your academic circlejerk about whatever "everyone should be using because it is so powerful". Or better yet, contribute to an open source FP project, or get a job writing FP code. Then you surely won't have to deal with low quality code.
 
idk the point in being misleading in what I say. Go back to /g/ if you want to continue your academic circlejerk about whatever "everyone should be using because it is so powerful". Or better yet, contribute to an open source FP project, or get a job writing FP code. Then you surely won't have to deal with low quality code.
I do all of these. But the sperging should move to the programming thread.
 
What does he hope to get out of it besides kicking stallman when he's down?
I suppose he wants to get his side of the story more known - I don't see any connection to the recent events surrounding Stallman. For context this is part of a 7 hour interview with the Computer History Museum and this is a dispute that goes back like 40 years.

Update: Another Stack Overflow moderator resigned - apparently a very longtime one. https://meta.stackoverflow.com/ques...ack-overflow-community-elected-moderator?cb=1
 
GitLab, a San Francisco-based provider of hosted git software, recently changed its company handbook to declare it won't ban potential customers on "moral/value grounds," and that employees should not discuss politics at work.
Gitlab makes a pretty solid move. Looks like a requisitioned hit piece by The Register to dirty their name.
Remember, gitlab is your friend
Edit: adding sources:
DevOps


Blood money is fine with us, says GitLab: Vetting non-evil customers is 'time consuming, potentially distracting'
Code-hosting biz also bans staff from talking politics at work
By Thomas Claburn in San Francisco 16 Oct 2019 at 04:57

64 Reg comments SHARE ▼
image by JoeBakal http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-832894p1.html


GitLab, a San Francisco-based provider of hosted git software, recently changed its company handbook to declare it won't ban potential customers on "moral/value grounds," and that employees should not discuss politics at work.

The policy addition, created by co-founder and CEO Sid Sijbrandij and implemented as a git pull request, was merged (with no approval required) about two weeks ago. It was proposed to clarify that GitLab is committed to doing business with "customers with values that are incompatible with our own values."

Such a declaration could run afoul of legal boundaries in some circumstances. While workers have no constitutional speech protection in the context of their employment, federal labor law requires that employees be allowed to discuss the terms and conditions of their employment and possible unlawful conduct like harassment, discrimination, and safety violations.

But it's perhaps understandable given how, over the past few years, workers in the tech industry have become more vocal in objecting to business deals with entities deemed to be immoral or work that conflicts with declared or presumed values.

At Google, for example, employees have protested the development of a censored search engine for China, the company's Project Maven AI protect for the Pentagon and its provision of cloud services to federal agencies like US Customs and Border Protection (CBP), US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and the US Office of Refugee Resettlement. And currently Googlers are sounding off on internal message boards about the company's decision to remove content supportive of democracy protests in Hong Kong.

nadella
Microsoft, GitHub staff tell Satya Nadella: It's time to ice ICE, baby. Rip up those tech contracts
READ MORE

Meanwhile at Microsoft's GitHub, employees at both companies have objected to GitHub's business with ICE, not to mention Microsoft's government contracts. Employees at Amazon have also urged the company not to sell its facial recognition technology to police and the military.

And recently workers at devops biz Chef raised similar objections to doing business with ICE. Three weeks ago, Chef, after refusing to bend, decided not to renew its contracts with CBP and ICE.

In what appears to be an effort to avoid such protests, Sijbrandij amended his company's handbook to state: "We do not discuss politics in the workplace and decisions about what customer to serve might get political."

And what reason does Sijbrandij's pull request provide to support this position? It says, "Efficiency is one of our values and vetting customers is time consuming and potentially distracting."
Historical precedent
If you can see how people might respond to IBM, infamous for providing technology that helped the Nazis in World War II, saying, "Who has time to look into the source of this hard German currency?" you can imagine how GitLab's policy amendment has been received.

Drew Blessing, a staff engineer at GitLab, in a discussion of the policy change, appears to be incredulous that Sijbrandij would word the statement in a way that suggests the company will take anyone's money.

"Is there no scenario we can envision where we would choose not to do business?" Blessing asked. "I understand that it may be a rare occasion where we would want to, but it seems like we may want to reserve that right rather than say we never will? Obviously we could always change the policy if that occasion arises, but it seems like a strange signal to send to say we won’t ever exclude a customer."

Sijbrandij responded by saying the company can change its strategy at any time, though it would honor standing commitments to customers.

Unsatisfied with Sijbrandij ducked his question, Blessing pressed for an answer. "Can you comment on this question, please?" he said.

"Is the timing of this update coincidental or in response to what’s happening in the Chef community? Unless it’s entirely coincidental it seems like we’re signally that we would accept a similar contract and would hold our ground if people disagreed."

Sijbrandij responded by stating, "as this [merge request] indicates we would do business with any entity that we're allowed to do business with." He also said the policy change wasn't a direct response to what happened at Chef "but that situation did cause me to think about it and make this [merge request] to explain the reasons better."

Some people are fine with business deals divorced from moral considerations. Ben Fellows, a cloud computing consultant, argues that GitLab is just a tool maker shouldn't be accountable for how its services are used, just as an automaker would not be expected to ensure only law abiding citizens drive its vehicles. If ICE has violated the law, he argues, there are legal processes to deal with that.



"The problem with the whole 'activism' mindset is it doesn't actually target the people who created the problem, it just creates lots of noise – and the problem with noise is facts get lost," Fellows said.

But as others point out, GitLab has made statements about its values. It has a Code of Conduct, in which it talks about empathy for others. Similar statements about values landed software biz NPM in hot water earlier this year after it fired several workers who sought to unionize, making a mockery of said values.

As a commenter identified as "casiotone" observed, "If your values aren't used to inform who you're doing business with, why do you bother pretending to have values at all? This [merge request] demonstrates that you don't have any values except 'we want to make money, and it doesn't matter who gets hurt.'"

The Register asked GitLab to comment. We've not heard back. ®

Edit 2: sharks in the water:
1571333929346.png
 
Last edited:
Gitlab makes a pretty solid move. Looks like a requisitioned hit piece by The Register to dirty their name.
Remember, gitlab is your friend
DevOps


Blood money is fine with us, says GitLab: Vetting non-evil customers is 'time consuming, potentially distracting'
Code-hosting biz also bans staff from talking politics at work
By Thomas Claburn in San Francisco 16 Oct 2019 at 04:57

64 Reg comments SHARE ▼
image by JoeBakal http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-832894p1.html


GitLab, a San Francisco-based provider of hosted git software, recently changed its company handbook to declare it won't ban potential customers on "moral/value grounds," and that employees should not discuss politics at work.

The policy addition, created by co-founder and CEO Sid Sijbrandij and implemented as a git pull request, was merged (with no approval required) about two weeks ago. It was proposed to clarify that GitLab is committed to doing business with "customers with values that are incompatible with our own values."

Such a declaration could run afoul of legal boundaries in some circumstances. While workers have no constitutional speech protection in the context of their employment, federal labor law requires that employees be allowed to discuss the terms and conditions of their employment and possible unlawful conduct like harassment, discrimination, and safety violations.

But it's perhaps understandable given how, over the past few years, workers in the tech industry have become more vocal in objecting to business deals with entities deemed to be immoral or work that conflicts with declared or presumed values.

At Google, for example, employees have protested the development of a censored search engine for China, the company's Project Maven AI protect for the Pentagon and its provision of cloud services to federal agencies like US Customs and Border Protection (CBP), US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and the US Office of Refugee Resettlement. And currently Googlers are sounding off on internal message boards about the company's decision to remove content supportive of democracy protests in Hong Kong.

nadella
Microsoft, GitHub staff tell Satya Nadella: It's time to ice ICE, baby. Rip up those tech contracts
READ MORE

Meanwhile at Microsoft's GitHub, employees at both companies have objected to GitHub's business with ICE, not to mention Microsoft's government contracts. Employees at Amazon have also urged the company not to sell its facial recognition technology to police and the military.

And recently workers at devops biz Chef raised similar objections to doing business with ICE. Three weeks ago, Chef, after refusing to bend, decided not to renew its contracts with CBP and ICE.

In what appears to be an effort to avoid such protests, Sijbrandij amended his company's handbook to state: "We do not discuss politics in the workplace and decisions about what customer to serve might get political."

And what reason does Sijbrandij's pull request provide to support this position? It says, "Efficiency is one of our values and vetting customers is time consuming and potentially distracting."
Historical precedent
If you can see how people might respond to IBM, infamous for providing technology that helped the Nazis in World War II, saying, "Who has time to look into the source of this hard German currency?" you can imagine how GitLab's policy amendment has been received.

Drew Blessing, a staff engineer at GitLab, in a discussion of the policy change, appears to be incredulous that Sijbrandij would word the statement in a way that suggests the company will take anyone's money.

"Is there no scenario we can envision where we would choose not to do business?" Blessing asked. "I understand that it may be a rare occasion where we would want to, but it seems like we may want to reserve that right rather than say we never will? Obviously we could always change the policy if that occasion arises, but it seems like a strange signal to send to say we won’t ever exclude a customer."

Sijbrandij responded by saying the company can change its strategy at any time, though it would honor standing commitments to customers.

Unsatisfied with Sijbrandij ducked his question, Blessing pressed for an answer. "Can you comment on this question, please?" he said.

"Is the timing of this update coincidental or in response to what’s happening in the Chef community? Unless it’s entirely coincidental it seems like we’re signally that we would accept a similar contract and would hold our ground if people disagreed."

Sijbrandij responded by stating, "as this [merge request] indicates we would do business with any entity that we're allowed to do business with." He also said the policy change wasn't a direct response to what happened at Chef "but that situation did cause me to think about it and make this [merge request] to explain the reasons better."

Some people are fine with business deals divorced from moral considerations. Ben Fellows, a cloud computing consultant, argues that GitLab is just a tool maker shouldn't be accountable for how its services are used, just as an automaker would not be expected to ensure only law abiding citizens drive its vehicles. If ICE has violated the law, he argues, there are legal processes to deal with that.



"The problem with the whole 'activism' mindset is it doesn't actually target the people who created the problem, it just creates lots of noise – and the problem with noise is facts get lost," Fellows said.

But as others point out, GitLab has made statements about its values. It has a Code of Conduct, in which it talks about empathy for others. Similar statements about values landed software biz NPM in hot water earlier this year after it fired several workers who sought to unionize, making a mockery of said values.

As a commenter identified as "casiotone" observed, "If your values aren't used to inform who you're doing business with, why do you bother pretending to have values at all? This [merge request] demonstrates that you don't have any values except 'we want to make money, and it doesn't matter who gets hurt.'"

The Register asked GitLab to comment. We've not heard back. ®
LMAO. The Register is fucking terrible when it comes to politics. Basically every EU article is unashamed arselapping.

On Call, Who Me and their articles on the ataribox are pretty funny tho. Probably because most of the content is externally generated.
 
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LMAO. The Register is fucking terrible when it comes to politics. Basically every EU article is unashamed arselapping.

On Call, Who Me and their articles on the ataribox are pretty funny tho. Probably because most of the content is externally generated.
God. I used to respect El Reg. How young and foolish I was.
 
GitLab, a San Francisco-based provider of hosted git software, recently changed its company handbook to declare it won't ban potential customers on "moral/value grounds," and that employees should not discuss politics at work.

Good for them. I'm happy to see at least one tech company focusing on tech.

I found the following to be both funny and autistic:
The policy addition, created by co-founder and CEO Sid Sijbrandij and implemented as a git pull request, was merged (with no approval required) about two weeks ago.

:story: of course they use git to run the company. I would love to see some dangerhair working there get btfo'd with "CLOSED, WONTFIX" when they start making bullshit pull requests with their complaints.
 
Should put in their company policy "ICE WELCOME"
 
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Gitlab makes a pretty solid move. Looks like a requisitioned hit piece by The Register to dirty their name.
Remember, gitlab is your friend

That Register headline. How long has it been taken over by screeching lunatics? Do they even realize how absolutely insane that headline is, and how it looks like fanatical insanity?
 
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