Paganism and the Occult - Ouija boards, sage smudging, and hexes, oh my!

[ASU]

This is going to be the weirdest thing i have ever written, but it is true.

One of you magnificent bastards made a post two or three months ago that started a chain of events that led me to Buddhist Enlightenment. I was agnostic before. I've felt it now.

The Kiwi (I don't remember who it was) said something like "Westerners think karma is something that takes many lifetimes to escape, when actually, most Eastern religions teach that it can be escaped in any single lifetime".

This somehow led me to digging up Alan Watts lectures in flv (lol) format that I dl'd from 4chan years ago. I started ripping his lectures from YouTube. I'd listen to them and talk about them to a friend who works near me. After two weeks, she had a moment of kensho, which is the first stage of Enlightenment. At this time I was not yet Enlightened, but because repeating what I was learning was accurately spreading the Buddhas Dharma, she began to Wake Up to her Inner Nature. She went from massive social anxiety (she is trans and so on) to none.

So a few more days go by, I'm still listening to the lectures, and I get into a convo on the bus with a crackhead. He was lost in lies and self-deception, and I could see lies built upon lies that were destroying him. His mind couldn't rest. He was addicted to thinking, addicted to talking. He was losing his mind because he was terrified of sobriety, terrified by the thought of boredom.

In that moment I suddenly felt incredible compassion, stronger than anything I've ever felt in my life. I loved that crackhead like he was myself. It felt like hallucinogens. For three days I felt that way. Light as a feather. Grinning constantly. Pure happiness. My social anxiety melted. I danced and random passersby would whisper to my friends "he is a great dancer", even though I was always too nervous to try before.

Kiwi Farms helped two people find inner peace. That's fucking ludicrous, but it happened. I love you all.

And the lolcows too.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I don't believe that there is any reason to believe in the supernatural. Although I don't believe that Non-overlapping magisteria can apply to literalist interpretations of religions I believe that most religions are normally interpreted in a metaphorical way that is very value heavy and lacking attempts at description of the state of the world. As a result I consider Asatru to be completely compatible with naturalistic empiricism as it is an ideal to strive towards rather than a state of the world

What are some things you would refuse to do (i.e., use ouija boards to contact spirits, perform sacrifices, etc.)

Unlike some conservative Asatruars I take a slightly more positive view on Seiðr. I consider it to be mostly in the domain of women but I have no problem with it being performed by a man as long as he does not use it as a justification for his natural effeminate tendencies. Odin performed it to gain wisdom rather than to indulge his desires and Loki's word is obviously not to be trusted.

I consider myths about cognate deities to still apply like the Romans did. Just as they had Interpretatio Graeca and Interpretatio Germanica I consider Gresk Oversettelse, Hindi Oversettelse, Celtic Oversettelse, Latin Oversettelse, and Slaviske Oversettelse to be legitimate sources of theology in increasing order of legitimacy (due to linguistic relatedness as seen in chart below)

Spoiler: indo european languages and their relation to each other

old norse is Asatru and it is to the bottom left corner above low franconian

I also don't think positively of alcohol so I would advocate replacing ale with tea in rituals

I highly disapprove of worship of Loki and imagine Loki as being the rat king, a non passing tranny who has blue hair and yells about pronouns

One day we'll find the Rat King. It'll be a tranny so poorly passing, so fat, and so boisterous that it'll make ADF look like a cis woman. He'll be the moderator of 123456chan, which he had to give up due to his fibro pains. He's an indie developer with at least 100 unfinished projects, most of them scams with stolen assets. Our top experts will find that he once operated an entire pedo ring. Merely mentioning his name (which is some combination of "witch," "crystal", a flower, and a greek goddess) will incur a chimpout so large that it will reverberate throughout the Internet. Every tranny will come to his defense like he was their own child. The ones who don't will be ex-lovers that supply us with juicy secrets of questionable veracity. Suicide threats and doxxing attempts like you've never seen before. Kiwi Farms will erupt into an inferno of autism bigger than Shaner, Marjan, and Autphag combined.

Until then, we wait...

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Since he was the first person to have died is he often considered to be Abel (the first person who dies in the bible)

That is a very common interpretation, yes.

 

[Eldritch]

@Eldritch what do you think about the Vanir and the Aesir
In Norse mythology there are actually 2 pantheons the Vanir who are fertility deities and the Aesir who are war related deities. I consider them to represent masculinity and femininity (and think that the disproportionate worship of the Aesir in contemporary Asatru is a problem that is responsible for the skewed sex ratios of 60-70% male) but I haven't heard much about them

From what I could tell, Aesir seem more civilization oriented, representing things like knowledge, strength, and bravery. The Vanir appear more nature oriented, and represent love, virility and such.

Both seem about equal in importance, but not many Vanir aside from Freyja and Freyr are well recorded, making their specific worship difficult.

I also don't think positively of alcohol so I would advocate replacing ale with tea in rituals

I highly disapprove of worship of Loki and imagine Loki as being the rat king, a non passing tranny who has blue hair and yells about pronouns

Wuss.

Also, If you think worshiping Loki is stupid, I've heard about a Ukrainian group that worships Fenrir, and other people that worship jotun.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Also, If you think worshiping Loki is stupid, I've heard about a Ukrainian group that worships Fenrir, and other people that worship jotun.

The brotherhood of wolves is Czech not Ukranian. That is probably the most idiotic thing I have ever hear of

I sort of understand worshipping some of the nonhostile Jotun as long as it is not support of them against the Aesir.

What do you think about Ragnarok?

 

[Eldritch]

What do you think about Ragnarok?

Expanding on the gods representing society and nature, Ragnarok could be interpreted as the downfall of civilization through war or some other means.

 

[Sheikh_Speare]

I don't really have anything to contribute to this thread as I'm an occultist but not a pagan.

However, one of my favorite writers is Julius Evola, and I'd recommend his works to anyone who wants to understand what being a pagan in the modern context really entails.

 

[Melkor]

I'll be attending a water ceremony this Saturday with some tribal members. It's meant to cleanse and purify the body of water we're blessing. Idk if I can take a video of it but I'll see if I can take pictures.

 

[IHeardThatCurtis]

As someone who loves the occult/Paganism and the history behind it, I find it so fascinating. I have a few friends who are Wicca and doing further research i found everything about so interesting, Of course i would want to know more about it although i never asked of course because i did not want to be outted or made fun of for asking around.

 

[Wallace]

As someone who loves the occult/Paganism and the history behind it, I find it so fascinating. I have a few friends who are Wicca and doing further research i found everything about so interesting, Of course i would want to know more about it although i never asked of course because i did not want to be outted or made fun of for asking around.

Wicca and most neo-pagan religions are very much 20th century constructs, drawing from heavily romanticized views of Celtic polytheism peppered with material from the Hermetic societies of 19th century Europe (Crowley, et al.). And of course, every major person involved in it has added their own spin to the mythos/mystery around it. While the core tenets of neo-pagan religions are generally recognizable, each individual group will do things their own way, a little different from anyone else.

So, while Wicca certainly can't claim much in the way of provable heritage from pre-Christian paganism, it does have value as a philosophy. If it's a way for you to help understand the world and yourself better, and cope with day-to-day life, more power to you.

 

[IHeardThatCurtis]

Wicca and most neo-pagan religions are very much 20th century constructs, drawing from heavily romanticized views of Celtic polytheism peppered with material from the Hermetic societies of 19th century Europe (Crowley, et al.). And of course, every major person involved in it has added their own spin to the mythos/mystery around it. While the core tenets of neo-pagan religions are generally recognizable, each individual group will do things their own way, a little different from anyone else.

So, while Wicca certainly can't claim much in the way of provable heritage from pre-Christian paganism, it does have value as a philosophy. If it's a way for you to help understand the world and yourself better, and cope with day-to-day life, more power to you.

Of course and something i find fascinating is the occult and trying to find deep meaning in yourself and the paranormal.For one example Nazi Occultism is very interesting since they tried to look for many ways to beat the Allies forces.

Heinrich Himmler was really big into the occult and the supernatural, I think their was a account of him or perhaps Hitler sending some troops to Egypt to find some artifact that he believed could help them. But i don't think that could be correct.

 

[Wallace]

Heinrich Himmler was really big into the occult and the supernatural, I think their was a account of him or perhaps Hitler sending some troops to Egypt to find some artifact that he believed could help them. But i don't think that could be correct.

Isn't that the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark?

 

[Melkor]

Alright, so I'm back from the water ceremony. Long story in the spoiler.

Spoiler: LONG

So I had to be there at 7 am. I left around 6:15 and drove to a lake on tribal property. Only tribal members are allowed and you're required to show your tribal ID when you go there. They're very strict with that kind of thing.

There were a few different people from different tribes, and some from different clans of my tribe--mostly of the Bear clan. Some of the others were from the Chippewa tribe and there was one elder from a tribe all the way up in Ottawa. Most of the people there were Potawatomi, though.

Me and many other student interns were there, so I wasn't alone. I hung out with the guy I worked with in IT, and after going with the tribal elder woman to pray to the lake spirit and offer it a pinch of tobacco, all sat down in a circle around the sacred fire. When you enter the circle, you take a pinch of healing herbs and tobacco and throw it in the fire as an offering, then go clockwise and sit down where you want to sit. Going counter clockwise is considered unlucky (I think) or it pisses off the spirits. Or maybe it's just the wrong way, I dunno.

We started out blessing the four cardinal directions, starting with east and going all the way around clockwise to north. This was to acknowledge the unborn children (east), the young children (south), the veterans and elders (west), and our ancestors (north). One of the elders from Ottawa played the drum and we had little shakers too--the Indian name for it escapes me right now but they're vital to almost every ceremony. He sang for about 5 minutes, then we had the elder woman stand up with the other women in the circle and we sang and blessed the water we would drink. The women perform the water ceremony because they carry the "water" in their wombs when they're carrying a child; they're the lifegivers. It's also important to note that any women who were on their cycles (or their "moon time" as one of the elders put it) had to sit outside the circle in the second row because they're considered very spiritually powerful when they're on their cycle.

Anyways, once the water was blessed, we were handed little paper cups and were poured some of the water to drink. There was more talking, then we passed around a feather to speak to the group. Some people got emotional because well. It's a sacred ceremony and people are honored to attend such a thing.

The woman who blessed the water earlier then, once we left the sacred fire, mixed a bowl with strawberries (symbolizing the first fruit of spring, and it's also considered the first fruit the Creator made) with ground up Indian corn and some of the lake water and "fed" the lake. Basically taking spoonfuls of the stuff and dipping it in the lake water. This was to honor and allow the lake spirit to "feast".

We broke for lunch after that, then had a pipe ceremony of sorts afterwards. We went around the sacred fire again and were told about how peace pipes are considered sacred objects; they're not just something you can smoke on a day to day basis. If someone gives one to you as a gift, it's not necessarily yours yet. What you have to do is take the pipe bowl, put it in a creek/place with moving water and leave it for 4 days and 4 nights, then go back to the creek and take it back. You also take the pipe itself and bury it in Mother Earth and leave that for 4 days and 4 nights, you then dig it up. If you put the pipe together and it doesnt fit, or the pipe bowl keeps slipping off, the pipe isn't meant for you, and you have to give that pipe to someone else.

We also talked about acquiring a tribal name. You have to meet with an elder or spiritual leader of your trive and offer them tobacco, then ask them to find you a name. Typically you allow the elder a year for them to pray to the spirits to have a vision or dreams regarding your name. In very rare cases, when that year is up, the elder won't have a name for you. You also have to get to know the elder so they get an understanding of your personality--have dinner with them, attend ceremonies and tribal events wit them, etc.

It was then time for us to leave--at least, for the interns. I said my goodbyes but then went up to my tribe's spiritual leader, offered him a small sack of tobacco, and asked him to find my tribal name. He knows my grandfather, who is tribal, so once he knows my name he will have my grandfather contact me because I'm over 600 miles from where my tribe is located. I'm only nearby for 8 weeks because of my internship.

If anyone has any questions regarding certain things like, what happens after a person gets their tribal name, feel free to ask. That's the gist of my time at the ceremony today.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I see Ragnarok as being about the end of Asatru and the rise of Christianity. We need to write a new myth of the reverse Ragnarok, a Ragnaheimta (god's recovery)

Maybe Ragnætrelding (god's dawn, slight assimilation or Ragna and nætrelding ) because although Götterdämmerung mistranslates Ragnarok as twilight of the gods as opposed to fate of the gods it still is culturally influential so dawn of the gods may be a suitable calque going back



I would consider the usage of alcohol to be something that should be left in medieval times because it makes it more difficult to live as a warrior, the introduction of coffee and tea is often credited for the enlightenment

 

[Clownshirt]

Alright, so I'm back from the water ceremony. Long story in the spoiler.

Spoiler: LONG

So I had to be there at 7 am. I left around 6:15 and drove to a lake on tribal property. Only tribal members are allowed and you're required to show your tribal ID when you go there. They're very strict with that kind of thing.

There were a few different people from different tribes, and some from different clans of my tribe--mostly of the Bear clan. Some of the others were from the Chippewa tribe and there was one elder from a tribe all the way up in Ottawa. Most of the people there were Potawatomi, though.

Me and many other student interns were there, so I wasn't alone. I hung out with the guy I worked with in IT, and after going with the tribal elder woman to pray to the lake spirit and offer it a pinch of tobacco, all sat down in a circle around the sacred fire. When you enter the circle, you take a pinch of healing herbs and tobacco and throw it in the fire as an offering, then go clockwise and sit down where you want to sit. Going counter clockwise is considered unlucky (I think) or it pisses off the spirits. Or maybe it's just the wrong way, I dunno.

We started out blessing the four cardinal directions, starting with east and going all the way around clockwise to north. This was to acknowledge the unborn children (east), the young children (south), the veterans and elders (west), and our ancestors (north). One of the elders from Ottawa played the drum and we had little shakers too--the Indian name for it escapes me right now but they're vital to almost every ceremony. He sang for about 5 minutes, then we had the elder woman stand up with the other women in the circle and we sang and blessed the water we would drink. The women perform the water ceremony because they carry the "water" in their wombs when they're carrying a child; they're the lifegivers. It's also important to note that any women who were on their cycles (or their "moon time" as one of the elders put it) had to sit outside the circle in the second row because they're considered very spiritually powerful when they're on their cycle.

Anyways, once the water was blessed, we were handed little paper cups and were poured some of the water to drink. There was more talking, then we passed around a feather to speak to the group. Some people got emotional because well. It's a sacred ceremony and people are honored to attend such a thing.

The woman who blessed the water earlier then, once we left the sacred fire, mixed a bowl with strawberries (symbolizing the first fruit of spring, and it's also considered the first fruit the Creator made) with ground up Indian corn and some of the lake water and "fed" the lake. Basically taking spoonfuls of the stuff and dipping it in the lake water. This was to honor and allow the lake spirit to "feast".

We broke for lunch after that, then had a pipe ceremony of sorts afterwards. We went around the sacred fire again and were told about how peace pipes are considered sacred objects; they're not just something you can smoke on a day to day basis. If someone gives one to you as a gift, it's not necessarily yours yet. What you have to do is take the pipe bowl, put it in a creek/place with moving water and leave it for 4 days and 4 nights, then go back to the creek and take it back. You also take the pipe itself and bury it in Mother Earth and leave that for 4 days and 4 nights, you then dig it up. If you put the pipe together and it doesnt fit, or the pipe bowl keeps slipping off, the pipe isn't meant for you, and you have to give that pipe to someone else.

We also talked about acquiring a tribal name. You have to meet with an elder or spiritual leader of your trive and offer them tobacco, then ask them to find you a name. Typically you allow the elder a year for them to pray to the spirits to have a vision or dreams regarding your name. In very rare cases, when that year is up, the elder won't have a name for you. You also have to get to know the elder so they get an understanding of your personality--have dinner with them, attend ceremonies and tribal events wit them, etc.

It was then time for us to leave--at least, for the interns. I said my goodbyes but then went up to my tribe's spiritual leader, offered him a small sack of tobacco, and asked him to find my tribal name. He knows my grandfather, who is tribal, so once he knows my name he will have my grandfather contact me because I'm over 600 miles from where my tribe is located. I'm only nearby for 8 weeks because of my internship.

If anyone has any questions regarding certain things like, what happens after a person gets their tribal name, feel free to ask. That's the gist of my time at the ceremony today.

I would love to know more about what happens after a person gets their tribal name! Also, when you receive yours, I'd be interested in learning what it is (if that's allowed, I admit I don't know too much about these things).

 

[Eldritch]

I see Ragnarok as being about the end of Asatru and the rise of Christianity. We need to write a new myth of the reverse Ragnarok, a Ragnaheimta (god's recovery)

I would consider the usage of alcohol to be something that should be left in medieval times because it makes it more difficult to live as a warrior, the introduction of coffee and tea is often credited for the enlightenment

Don't see a good correlation there. I also don't care for the idea of adding myths.

Ragnarok seems irreversible to me, only a select few gods survive. Baldr, Vithar, Mothi, Magni, Vali, Hothr, and the daughter of Sol. If Ragnarok represents the rise of christianity then that would mean the gods are already dead. Ragnarok leaves us with a destroyed but recovering world, the nearly extinct but recovering human race, and about seven gods. Sounds more like a nuclear war than mass conversion.

Mead is the true and honest drink of the gods and you say it goes against their ideals? Drinking makes you a more effective warrior, if you ask me.

What do you think of Wyrd?

I would love to know more about what happens after a person gets their tribal name! Also, when you receive yours, I'd be interested in learning what it is (if that's allowed, I admit I don't know too much about these things).

I concur.

 

[Melkor]

I would love to know more about what happens after a person gets their tribal name! Also, when you receive yours, I'd be interested in learning what it is (if that's allowed, I admit I don't know too much about these things).

I concur.

Once a tribal member receives their Indian name, at least for my tribe, what they have to do is choose 4 sponsors--they can be anyone you know, and I'm pretty sure they have to be tribal as well. Then there's a naming ceremony involved, and your immediate family is there with you. For each person who comes to the ceremony, you have to have gifts for them. It's like a backwards birthday. The gifts can be anything--necessities like paper towels, or you can MAKE gifts for them like medicine pouches, little carved or sculpted totems, things like that. I'm not sure what else is involved during the naming ceremony, but you also have to have food/dinner/a feast prepared for everyone afterwards.

I know nothing about Indian recipes, aside from fry bread, which is literally fried bread.

 

[Tailypo]

I dabble in different types of paganism, but I lean more towards Hellenism than anything else. I've had a special interest in Greek mythology since I was a kid and there's a chance I might have Greek ancestry, so I guess that's why I was drawn to this particular religion.

Athena is the main goddess that I worship, so my altar is pretty much devoted to her. Hellenists are really big on reciprocity and piety to the gods, which is shown by the offerings you make to them. I usually offer Athena olives since the olive tree is one of her symbols.

Other things that are not necessarily related to Hellenism: I celebrate most pagan holidays, like Samhain, Yule, and Ostara, and I have a deep respect for nature. I also used to have my own herbs on my balcony, but they unfortunately dried up while I was away for a month. I haven't had the chance to buy new herbs.

I would never use a ouija board, as it is completely unpredictable and most people who use it have no idea how to safely communicate with spirits.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

What do you think of Wyrd?

I see it as either being similar to amor fati in its relevance to individuals. The purpose of it is to teach somethin very similar to what Nietzsches idea of eternal recurrence is to teach as are most ideas of fate


So how is everyone celebrating the solstice today?

 

[Ebola]

I dabble in Meme Magic and Memetic Warfare. I know nothing of the old gods or past traditions, so I guess in some ways that helps.