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General Emílio Médici said:
Racial equality in the armed forces is a different thing from racial equality in general. Army segregation must have been hell on the logistics and probably caused morale issues.

By their very nature Armed Forces are already segregated, since everyone goes through training regiments and classifications that go along with it.

Probably has some to do with honor as well. The fact army blacks got shafted out of the G.I. Bill was probably not exactly seen as honorable to a lot of them.
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Im talking about the civil war not ww2.
 
JJLiautaud said:
What I find interesting is how many southern generals supported racial equality and so forth after the war Forrest Longstreet and so forth.
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The average antebellum southerner didn't hate blacks. Look down on and be (understandably) afraid of the potential of a Haiti 2 steam-powered jigaboo, yes, but the very flanderized racial animus that existed in the south was a direct product of the experience of reconstruction. Blacks were the only real thing holding up the incredibly corrupt reconstruction governments outside of federal garrisons and were used as police by them (where they would often abuse their newfound authority).

The general laxity of Confederate higher-ups towards blacks makes the monocausal thesis look even more ridiculous the more you look into it. Even Jefferson Davis went out of his way to teach his slaves how to read despite it being against state law at the time.
 
I'm gonna post this here since this is basically the strategy game thread for KF.
Playing a browser game called Pax Historica, it uses AI and lets you larp throughout various periods in history, it's use of AI facilitates diplomacy which appeals to my modern day-geopolitical autism. Ukraine is acting like they have huge leverage on me as I'm trying to negotaite Minsk 2 in early 2016 but I guess that's accurate to real life.
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Sooty Soot said:
I'm gonna post this here since this is basically the strategy game thread for KF.
Playing a browser game called Pax Historica, it uses AI and lets you larp throughout various periods in history, it's use of AI facilitates diplomacy which appeals to my modern day-geopolitical autism. Ukraine is acting like they have huge leverage on me as I'm trying to negotaite Minsk 2 in early 2016 but I guess that's accurate to real life.
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Ukraine was the largest producer of Child Porn in the world for a long time until the war cut production down. The AI is probably acting as if it has the tapes of you enjoying slavic orphans in Kiev.
 
Sooty Soot said:
I'm gonna post this here since this is basically the strategy game thread for KF.
Playing a browser game called Pax Historica, it uses AI and lets you larp throughout various periods in history, it's use of AI facilitates diplomacy which appeals to my modern day-geopolitical autism. Ukraine is acting like they have huge leverage on me as I'm trying to negotaite Minsk 2 in early 2016 but I guess that's accurate to real life.
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No that is me you are typing to on the other end.
 
Sooty Soot said:
My dream of a full North-Afro-Eurasia CK2 will never be fulfilled because of nu-Paradox fans. The worst part is it would be alright in terms of performance with modern CPU's even with CK2 being 32bit and being locked to a single core.
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The Tianxia mod for CK2 might help with that dream. Its still in development, I belive. Its incompatible with HIP, though.

Side note, "Tianxia" roughly translates to "All Under Heaven." So this upcoming CK3 dlc and the last big one "Roads to Power," were literally lifted from fan mods down to the titles (The "Rise to Power" mod for CK2 lets you play landless). Paradox has no original ideas or vision anymore. They're just poaching the ideas of modders who, frankly, are doing more to keep this game alive than they are.
 
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Snekposter said:
So you get the second KKK formed based around how that movie portrayed them, complete with robes and fancy ceremonies and silly titles, as well as a general ultranationalist bent instead of anything exclusively aimed at blacks, so you had chapters scattered throughout not just the South but also the Midwest, Northeast, and as mentioned above even a few distinctly Canadian ones.
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Not just present in the Midwest, dominant there. One third of Indiana. Huge control in Colorado and California. That’s one of the bizarre holes in the public memory: the North basically adopted a Southern nationalist movement as a symbol for American nationalism.

I maintain the KKK is the most plausible route for an alt history American fascist movement because the whole Wilsonian progressive vibe essentially WAS the American-flavored (so, empty praise for democracy but still authoritarian in substance) version of it. That’s the irony with America; our fascism actually comes and peaks earlier than European fascism, which was inspired in part by it, so it got forgotten, especially with progressive whitewashing.

But that’s also why HOI trees always feel half baked and LARPy. You need a start back in the early 1920s. For most factions having a start in the 1920s makes the four ideology (communism, fascism, reactionary, democracy) split far more plausible. (For America, the Confederacy is the reactionary meme ideology that makes sense. They should have never made it the fascist branch. Confederates for what, in other country, are dumbass WW1 monarchist restorations.)
 
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Computer God Autism said:
The average antebellum southerner didn't hate blacks. Look down on and be (understandably) afraid of the potential of a Haiti 2 steam-powered jigaboo, yes, but the very flanderized racial animus that existed in the south was a direct product of the experience of reconstruction. Blacks were the only real thing holding up the incredibly corrupt reconstruction governments outside of federal garrisons and were used as police by them (where they would often abuse their newfound authority).

The general laxity of Confederate higher-ups towards blacks makes the monocausal thesis look even more ridiculous the more you look into it. Even Jefferson Davis went out of his way to teach his slaves how to read despite it being against state law at the time.
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Southern whites deeply hated black people. Men were drafted into slave patrols and the culture surrounding that was the foundation for the rise of the first KKK. The Civil War and Reconstruction were a source of racial conflict precisely because these events involved extending more rights to black Americans. A handful of states were majority black, and their white population risked losing their grip over the state and in general poor whites were kept content in their poverty by being higher up than black people on the American caste system. Part of the reason for the decline of the first KKK was that rich whites did not like seeing the poor whites normalizing political violence and disrupting economic recovery.

Ironically, Reconstruction and its failure resulted in the South converting the North into being more racist (and I would say briefly even more racist than the south) Western states banned black migration and the rise of the KKK in the 1920s was actually more of a Northern/Midwestern populist thing.

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
I maintain the KKK is the most plausible route for an alt history American fascist movement
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You could probably combine it with the technocratic business plot people to make for an interesting story. Most fascists took power through similarly strange alliances. Problem is that the Klan was actually dead by 1930.
 
Slap47 said:
Southern whites deeply hated black people.
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Your entire argument is just projecting a handful of economic institutions to extrapolate (condescend) the emotional state of a general populace. Free states hunted runaway slaves too, both as a matter of public policy and with private incentives, and the National Labor Union was excluding free blacks from its ranks concurrent to the formation first KKK - who shot white politicians (including the first congressman to be assassinated in office) as much as black ones.
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
You need a start back in the early 1920s. For most factions having a start in the 1920s makes the four ideology (communism, fascism, reactionary, democracy) split far more plausible.
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Problem is 1930s 'democracy', communism and fascism had few meaningful differences in function. Sure, communists only violently overthrew their countries while fascists would save that for the fait-accompli, but when it came to their perspectives on managerialism they were largely interchangeable, the only real difference was the extent to which they were willing to exercise direct state power over culture and the economy. FDR's admin was infiltrated top to bottom with literal soviet agents who could write policies while the cripple's first inaugural address would be indistinguishable from one of Mussolini's speeches if it didn't mention a Congress.

The only sensible 'fascist' option for a post-Wilson, post-Bonus Army 1936 America would been an actual Business Plot manifesting because the player picks the new communist route, which is just FDR being more open about his admiration of Stalin and trying to implement direct analogues to Soviet policies.
 
Computer God Autism said:
Problem is 1930s 'democracy', communism and fascism had few meaningful differences in function. Sure, communists only violently overthrew their countries while fascists would save that for the fait-accompli, but when it came to their perspectives on managerialism they were largely interchangeable, the only real difference was the extent to which they were willing to exercise direct state power over culture and the economy. FDR's admin was infiltrated top to bottom with literal soviet agents who could write policies while the cripple's first inaugural address would be indistinguishable from one of Mussolini's speeches if it didn't mention a Congress.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Recovery_Administration
At this moment in time from the early days of the New Deal, it is difficult to recapture, even in imagination, the heady enthusiasm among a goodly number of intellectuals for a government planned economy. So far as can now be told, they believed that a bright new day was dawning, that national planning would result in an organically integrated economy in which everyone would joyfully work for the common good, and that American society would be freed at last from those antagonisms arising, as General Hugh Johnson put it, from "the murderous doctrine of savage and wolfish individualism, looking to dog-eat-dog and devil take the hindmost.
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Yup, FDR was a full-blown technocrat even worse than the ones we've got around right now.
 
Slap47 said:
You could probably combine it with the technocratic business plot people to make for an interesting story. Most fascists took power through similarly strange alliances. Problem is that the Klan was actually dead by 1930
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Why did the 2nd klan die?
 
The final Tinto Maps has released, covering the World again.
Old world map:
old.webp
New world map:
new.webp
Imo the older one had a better appearance, being brighter and having thick outlines.
  • 28,570 locations - compared to 2,500 in EUIV 1.0, 4,500 in EUIV 1.37
  • 1,523 settled countries - compared to 970 in EUIV 1.37
  • 149 building-based countries
  • 450 societies of pops
  • 672 different terrain combinations (coming from Climate, Topography, and Vegetation) - compared to 16 terrain types in EUIV 1.37
  • 2,083 cultures- compared to 367 in EUIV 1.37
  • 513 languages
  • 294 religions - compared to 27 in EUIV 1.37
  • 74 goods - compared to 30 in EUIV 1.37
  • 121 markets
  • A total of 426.350.077 (426M) population worldwide
 
Blackstar said:
The final Tinto Maps has released, covering the World again.
Old world map:
View attachment 7976336
New world map:
View attachment 7976335
Imo the older one had a better appearance, being brighter and having thick outlines.
  • 28,570 locations - compared to 2,500 in EUIV 1.0, 4,500 in EUIV 1.37
  • 1,523 settled countries - compared to 970 in EUIV 1.37
  • 149 building-based countries
  • 450 societies of pops
  • 672 different terrain combinations (coming from Climate, Topography, and Vegetation) - compared to 16 terrain types in EUIV 1.37
  • 2,083 cultures- compared to 367 in EUIV 1.37
  • 513 languages
  • 294 religions - compared to 27 in EUIV 1.37
  • 74 goods - compared to 30 in EUIV 1.37
  • 121 markets
  • A total of 426.350.077 (426M) population worldwide
Click to expand...
Reminds me that I should start planning my New World polity maximalization mod. There are far too few states, missing the Mississippians alone should be rectified.
 
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