Pathfinder: Kingmaker - From Tabletop to Desktop

We also know, from the game, that Mendev is awash in Magical gear. Even entry-level crusaders (and cultists!) are packing, at minimum, Masterwork tier swords, as well as Plate armor worth upwards of 1000gp. All Irabeth would have to do is kill a couple demon patrols and she'd be set.
That's not really true, they all have like 50g armor, a cold iron longsword worth 100g, a light crossbow normal shield and 2 potions of cure light wounds that they never drink like true gamers. Soldiers and cultists are even worse equipped. You don't start to come up against generic humans with magic weapons until act 3.

So it's true that they are entrusted with a lot of gear in service to the state, I guess, but not anything crazy.
Around act 3 now, and I'm definitely amused by the loading screen hot tip letting me know that spell resistance is "a rare ability that allows enemies to resist spells". Bitch what, RARE? I'd be surprised if Mendevian peasant children weren't rocking SR 15 at bare minimum. Everything in this game has spell resistance.
Yeah, it's that sort of game. Every fight on above normal feels unfair and you have to min max to an unreasonable extent and that gameplay loop really determines how much the game appeals to you. Most fights are still less painful then the spider cave in kingmaker though.
 
So I looked it up, and of course it's a major topic in the Pathfinder community.

I found two lore-friendly options, though I'm certain there are more. One is the Elixir of Sex Shift - 2250 gp, which is pricey, but perfectly manageable for an adventurer like Irabeth or Anevia (about the same cost as a single +1 weapon) - and the other is the Serum of Sex Shift - which appears to do the exact same thing, only for a mere 60gp (maybe it got rebalanced for 2nd Edition? Paizo felt the need to make the sex change potion even cheaper?).
It's a well-known fact amongst tabletop players that Pathfinder is the system for autistic DnD 3.5 minmaxers and ERPers (the two often overlap because autism). The writers themselves are degenerate coomers and it shouldn't be a surprise that they shoehorn their fetishes into the lore, e.g. Desna, Sarenrae, and Shelyn are in a lesbian threesome and Pharasma is an all-powerful mommy Mary Sue waifu of a writer. I have no doubt that the tranny stuff was written by her SJW eminence Amber E. Scott herself since she was one of the main writers for the base tabletop adventure path. Paizo isn't called Pozzo for no reason. Hell, we should be grateful that Paizo has been hands-off so far despite Owlcat's success.
 
It's a well-known fact amongst tabletop players that Pathfinder is the system for autistic DnD 3.5 minmaxers and ERPers (the two often overlap because autism). The writers themselves are degenerate coomers and it shouldn't be a surprise that they shoehorn their fetishes into the lore, e.g. Desna, Sarenrae, and Shelyn are in a lesbian threesome and Pharasma is an all-powerful mommy Mary Sue waifu of a writer. I have no doubt that the tranny stuff was written by her SJW eminence Amber E. Scott herself since she was one of the main writers for the base tabletop adventure path. Paizo isn't called Pozzo for no reason. Hell, we should be grateful that Paizo has been hands-off so far despite Owlcat's success.
Yeah, the minmaxing was something else I've been noticing, ever since I picked up the Owlcat games. I still remember when D&D books had sections telling kids NOT to roll 18s for their stats, since it was more interesting to play flawed characters, and if everyone was 18, then "the value of 18 would diminish". But now in WotR, I'm seeing loading screen tips that lecture new players on the importance of dump stats and build optimization. I thought maybe that was just the vidya games, but that's a structural feature of Pathfinder now, I take it?

Also, while digging through the online archives, I did notice a ton of ERP content too - like spells of horniness that take the place of Suggestion and Charm Person, at least a dozen deities with some kind of incest story, and of course that bard spell that makes everyone coom themselves. Again, wasn't really thinking too much of it - after all, even the succubusses have no tits, so how degenerate could it be? - but I guess when the main writers for the setting have no hetero fetishes, but every middle-aged cryptolesbian fetish, then banning "normal" sexiness while encouraging "weird" sexiness is going to be the inevitable result.


This might be autistic as fuck, but it's also reminding me of a notorious Neverwinter Nights mod from way back in the day, called Dance with Rogues. It was basically a Harlequin romance novel reworked into a mod that was as long as the base game; you play a beautiful princess who gets abducted and raped by a hunky Fabio pirate, and then slowly rises through the roguish ranks to become a beautiful redhaired pirate queen who gets all the dick she wants. iirc, rumor was that the mod's author was a Woman's Studies professor.

I played that mod when I was in highschool, specifically because it was tagged "Adult Content". Young kid, full of hormones, horny 24/7, you'd think an overlong porn mod would be right up my alley, yes? But bizarrely, the mod was actually really boring. Except for the occasional bikini armor, there was almost nothing in Dance with Rogues that would hold the interest of a cishet guy. It may have been because, despite the rape pirates (or maybe because of the rape pirates?) Dance was very obviously written by a woman, for women; it put far more focus on the intrigues of romance and relationships, than it did on the practical business of going out and killing monsters.

Wrath seems the same way. Irabeth and Anevia, for example, their story hinges on them ditching the crusade to go play Sex in the City together. To me, that seems insane, maybe even a little insipid. But to a middle-aged woman writer, Irabeth's decisions might make sense: who wants to die in the Abyss, still clutching your grandfather's sword and surrounded by the corpses of a thousand demons slain by your hand, when you could instead have a nice apartment, in a trendy city, where you can just sit around all day with your NB femmeboifriend, doing fujoshi stuff on a Church pension?
 
Yeah, it's that sort of game. Every fight on above normal feels unfair and you have to min max to an unreasonable extent and that gameplay loop really determines how much the game appeals to you. Most fights are still less painful then the spider cave in kingmaker though.
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How in the fuck did someone who knows how d20 systems work look at that stat block and go "hmm yes, this is a normal non-boss encounter for a level 11 party."
 
this is a normal non-boss encounter for a level 11 party.
At least it has 36 AC, meaning you'll occasionally hit it.
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68 AC, meaning every attack you have will miss. Meaning that I'm pretty much the only one who can hit him as he has 34 touch AC but he has close to 1200 HP, so it'd take about a dozen fireballs to kill him, by then my party would be did. To be honest, I turned on an "attacks always hit" option in the Toybox mod I used, because if the game is going to be cheap, so can I. You'll be LV 13 - 14 at this point and you're supposed to cheese with with pillars of light and that but still. From what I read, Owlcat had the baseline of the monster, being Lv19, then had it level up with normal character levels, so it developed 68 AC and permanent heroism, haste, stat buffs and the like. For comparison, the end game boss has an AC of 74, Lantern King from Kingmaker had max AC of 44.
 
Yeah, I'll have to grab that mod. there's difficulty and then there's...why am I even wearing armor or buffing my party at all? Adding 12 to my AC or saves does fuckall because enemies are 10+ levels higher than me, so their attack rolls only miss on 1s even after stacking protective buffs, their save DCs are in the thirties, spells have a 50% chance to even get through the magic resistance, and I'm basically just save scumming/cheesing fights with summon spells because skeletons provide convenient patsies for them to one-shot with their absurd titan strength scores.
 
Why was king maker so much more wholesome? Written earlier?
Written earlier + Owlcat actually improved on the plot and made things much more cohesive. The original tabletop version is very sandbox-y and didn't really have a "big bad". WotR is pretty notorious because of how badly it's written and because mythic levels are a shit show that no GM wants to deal with. For reference, in the tabletop, Iomedae forces all the PCs to a surprise pop quiz where every time you get something wrong you get trumpeted and suffer from deafness/ability damage/etc. She's also just a salty bitch considering the source of her power came from the Starstone and isn't far off from the PCs' source of mythical powers.

Tl;Dr the older Pathfinder adventure paths are decent-good and the newest ones are trash.
 
I played a little more this evening, and I'm actually

sort of glad that I know Anevia's deep, dark secret. One, it goes a long way to explaining why my coworkers are such fuckups. Two, the jawline on his portrait makes more sense. And three, now I'm reading every line of dialogue he says in an "it's MA'AM" voice, which is massively amusing.

And yeah, just get a polymorph spell cast on you, and you're all set. You don't even need the Cursed Belts of Sex Change if you're some weirdo; there's like a dozen spells available at any urban mage college that will erase your girldick.

The bad news is, now I'm wondering how long it will be until wokies are putting incest, zoo, and pedo stuff into their games. And not as demon shit, either - demons have always been doing that stuff ever since First Edition, because they're demons. Rather, I mean, putting these fetishes into RPGs as something the Good Guys (tm) routinely engage in, and if you don't like it, you're a Nazi.

A few years ago I'd say no, that's insane, would never happen. But consider where these people are at now:
Cleavage and a little thigh on a literal succubus? EWW NO TOXIC!
Interspecies trans-lesbians with serious mental problems, working in positions of undeserved authority, shirking their duty and screwing over company finances in order to spice up their gay marriage? YAS STUNNING AND BRAVE!

-edit- also, it kind of reminds of something I saw a few weeks ago, which would probably be of interest to KF.

I was digging through some Pathfinder fluff, looking for info on gods and demons to help flesh out the backstories for my characters, when Google led me to a thread on RPG.net. It's a "Let's Read" of Pathfinder's Book of the Damned. Here's an example of how these particular posters think:
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Sarcasm and Poe's Law? Or do some gamernerds genuinely believe that a cult dedicated to incest necrophilia is merely"icky", and ultimately, less evil than a cult being heteronormative and insufficiently inclusive towards enbies...?
Looks to me like someone actually doesn't have a group and just wants the praise.

Written earlier + Owlcat actually improved on the plot and made things much more cohesive. The original tabletop version is very sandbox-y and didn't really have a "big bad". WotR is pretty notorious because of how badly it's written and because mythic levels are a shit show that no GM wants to deal with. For reference, in the tabletop, Iomedae forces all the PCs to a surprise pop quiz where every time you get something wrong you get trumpeted and suffer from deafness/ability damage/etc. She's also just a salty bitch considering the source of her power came from the Starstone and isn't far off from the PCs' source of mythical powers.

Tl;Dr the older Pathfinder adventure paths are decent-good and the newest ones are trash.
Mythic Levels aren't the problem it's the spells. Spells are broken once you get mythic featherfall.
Legendary Games did a okay job balancing that out a little bit, but the spells were still an issue. Just remember to add more mythic spellcasters in case the players the players want to abuse the rules. It's all fun and games until the players die in the first round against an archer doing 700 damage minimum or an mage doing 1200+. Increased casting speed helps for mythic spells at least as a rule.
 
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At least it has 36 AC, meaning you'll occasionally hit it.
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68 AC, meaning every attack you have will miss. Meaning that I'm pretty much the only one who can hit him as he has 34 touch AC but he has close to 1200 HP, so it'd take about a dozen fireballs to kill him, by then my party would be did. To be honest, I turned on an "attacks always hit" option in the Toybox mod I used, because if the game is going to be cheap, so can I. You'll be LV 13 - 14 at this point and you're supposed to cheese with with pillars of light and that but still. From what I read, Owlcat had the baseline of the monster, being Lv19, then had it level up with normal character levels, so it developed 68 AC and permanent heroism, haste, stat buffs and the like. For comparison, the end game boss has an AC of 74, Lantern King from Kingmaker had max AC of 44.
Its shit like that that makes me wish the Gunslinger was around. "What's that? Its a couple GP a bullet? Well, I get to strike at your touch AC, cutting it down to just half."
 
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How in the fuck did someone who knows how d20 systems work look at that stat block and go "hmm yes, this is a normal non-boss encounter for a level 11 party."
Oh right. By the way during beta in Act 1 of the game one of the possible random encounters you can fight is a level 12 priest, but not just a level 12 priest.

A level 12 priest with fucking Harm.
To put this in perspective, Lorewise the Queen Paladin Immortal Woman is statted to be a level 12 paladin. While statwise, you are currently level 1 Which would mean you'd probably have less than 30 HP.
Harm does 10 HP dmg per caster level, save turns it into half - oddly Harm doesn't stop doing damage at 1 hp.
The math says die.

Apparently this was a "bug" but in Kingmaker one of the random encounters in Act 1 was 1d6 bugbears. And again, you're probably still level 1.

At the pattern this is going the next module is going to have 1d20 Demiliches with Power Word: Kill somewhere up their rectal-skull crevices.
If i choose the lich path can I have the tranny torn apart by skellingtons. Was going to do a "good" run first but the TTT (time to tranny) in this game was so low I quickly realised the world was beyond redeeming.
iirc there was a datamine of who you can rip apart into skellington boner formation, and the answer is But being a lich does piss literally everyone off, until you call them a bigot. So that's fucking funny.
Especially since it
 
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Well my favourite RTWP RPG experience was soloing bgii as a sorcerer so I'm ok with power gaming to break the difficulty curve but so far WotR is a lot less fun than King maker or bg ii due to the much less open world
 
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Unrelated to both Pathfinder games but has anyone messed up with Solasta yet? It's cheap enough that I might buy it for my friends if it works somewhat properly and the make-a-dungeon features are fun enough.
@Waifuwars Got most of the points, but I'll had some extras. The 3d combat in my opinion wasn't really special. I never felt like using the fly spell unless it was to get access to hard to reach places. The story is bad and the voice acting is more insulting. The biggest insult was the lack of content. The dungeon maker offers nothing new except for creating new challenge fights. It's no where near as in-depth as neverwinter nights modules. You don't even get new enemies in the dungeon maker. The campaign is short and easy(not sure if 5e is to blame). It's worth $10 for the content that it has. I rather they toned down the graphics to include more classes, more dungeon maker mechanics, custom campaigns, or the ability to create your own classes. Also, I'm pretty sure it's single player only.
 
Ironically Pathfinder struggles with pathfinding. During the whole siege with Drezen but especially the fight with Balor Darrazand the game kept having strokes whenever I tried to make anyone move if there was anything resembling walls around. It got as bad as making half my party unable to move.
 
Its was around Act 4 that the crazy difficulty was getting to me. Why are the AC of the enemies so fucking high? It wasnt this bad in Kingmaker.
Really? Cause the Wild Hunts in the final Act were the most bullshit difficulty spikes I've ever seen in video games up till that point.

With this and the crusades, It's nice to know Owlcat has learned absolutely nothing about why people hate their games.
 
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Really? Cause the Wild Hunts in the final Act were the most bullshit difficulty spikes I've ever seen in video games up till that point.

With this and the crusades, It's nice to know Owlcat has learned absolutely nothing about why people hate their games.
There are some enemies in Act 4 that have AC as high of 50 or 60. Not bosses either. What the fuck? Do I need to min max and cheat to win?
 
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Still meandering around Act 3, it's a shame how good Camellia is at buff botting and putting out reasonable damage when she's out of spells. She's a real hateful murderhobo of a character; one of those personalities that you look at and think "god, why do any of these people put up with you? It's almost impressive how far out of your way you'll go to be a huge bitch to every single person you catch sight of"

she's totally Chaotic Evil. Wearing a magic alignment-obscuring amulet is basically wearing a billboard screaming "I'm Chaotic Evil". And it explains her horrible personality. Even Daeran ribs people in a jokey way and Regill is cold but not a total dick; Camellia's just "fuck off I hate everyone I love misery and suffering and being a total asshole all the time".
 
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Still meandering around Act 3, it's a shame how good Camellia is at buff botting and putting out reasonable damage when she's out of spells. She's a real hateful murderhobo of a character; one of those personalities that you look at and think "god, why do any of these people put up with you? It's almost impressive how far out of your way you'll go to be a huge bitch to every single person you catch sight of"

she's totally Chaotic Evil. Wearing a magic alignment-obscuring amulet is basically wearing a billboard screaming "I'm Chaotic Evil". And it explains her horrible personality. Even Daeran ribs people in a jokey way and Regill is cold but not a total dick; Camellia's just "fuck off I hate everyone I love misery and suffering and being a total asshole all the time".
So if you look around when leveling her in other classes the game will straight up tell you at any time.

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Personally, yeah her backstory is edgeville but her personality and how she reacts to thing just makes her feel like a mean girl. I keep her around for being mechanically useful.
 
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