Pathfinder: Kingmaker - From Tabletop to Desktop

1.0.2g is stable at least for me, filesize bloat and having trouble with portals in Alushinyrra. The latest patch 1.0.3 has apparently deleted a critical NPC from Act 4 however, so you can't progress the story. Think I'll play the rest of the game on this patch, have had no major bugs once I got past the morale one in Act 3.
Music is baller
 
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I wish the opening was better. Act 2 does a way better job introducing characters and locations, the experience since marching on Drezen has been great

Kingmaker had a very strong first act, while in Wrath of the Righteous I think they do a poor job of introducing Kenabres, the important NPCs in the city, exactly what the hell the mongrels living beneath the city are, and why there is a freaking cultist den right below the city garrison.

Also demon is easily the least popular of the starting mythics, which is too bad because there's a lot of interesting content for it as the game progresses. I guess it's normal though as players usually don't go for outright evil paths, and if they are going to go evil it seems being a lich appeals more to people.
I guess being a demon though kinda trivializes the part where you're in the abyss, you spend like all of 10 minutes to slay a powerful demon and you get all his shit and followers based on demon justice

Also we've got another example now of a non triple A video game beating them when it comes to the soundtrack
 
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Let's do some math.
Fire + Fire + Water Kineticist blue flame blast + Kinetic blast weapon focus (Improved and Improved Critical) + Double Infusion mystic feat + Kinetic Blast mythic feat + pure flame infusion (Bypass Spell Penetration) and Unraveling infusion (Dispel Magic, don't need a SP check cause bypassing) + Azata Zippy Magic super power (Single target spells become double, so 2 fire balls since a Kinetic attack counts as a ranged touch magical attack) + Greater Kinetic Diadem (6d6+6 added) + Dex Modifier + Quicken and Empowered metamagic and gather power low to offset the entire burn cost =
f5f6a27ab6d585762d0c650fab01ced6d99f7570ea482bbe284ab0bfe0f23d15.png

I kinda stumbled into this build to be honest but having such a high damage output is worth being a glass cannon. Also worth looking up what the metamagic does just to improve damage output. The 43 and 27 are Lann and Arueshalae's bow attacks, they attack 3 time per turn but don't have the damage output unless critical.
For a quick explanation of meta-magic:
Maximize - Highest possible damage I.E. 3d6 will always be 18.
Quicken - Spell is casted as a quick action, no need to wait 3 seconds before casting.
Empowered - 1.5x the overall damage. So 3d6 roll say 10 damage, add any modifiers, times if crit then 1.5x to 15 overall.
There are other ones available for sorcerers and wizards and the like but Kinetic only have these 3.
 
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Not sure if Arcane trickster is a class in the new game, but I'm curious if it is whether they nerfed it? So in Kingmaker, you have a spell called scorching hellfire or something. It was like scorching ray but also did negative damage as well as fire damage. I could understand that each ray/missile would get its own sneak attack, but both the fire and negative damage got their own sneak attack as well. I'm curious if they fixed that so only one ray got a sneak attack regardless if there is two damage types.
 
Not sure if Arcane trickster is a class in the new game, but I'm curious if it is whether they nerfed it? So in Kingmaker, you have a spell called scorching hellfire or something. It was like scorching ray but also did negative damage as well as fire damage. I could understand that each ray/missile would get its own sneak attack, but both the fire and negative damage got their own sneak attack as well. I'm curious if they fixed that so only one ray got a sneak attack regardless if there is two damage types.
It is a class. I have no idea if hellfire ray got fixed, but I do know that Arcane Trickster is one of the classes that powergamers are recommending a lot, due to sneak attack rays.

As for the party sperging - I didn't like the characters at first. A few of them have grown on me, and there are enough characters to choose from that I can fill a party with people I don't hate, but the Whedonism complaints are real and valid. My advice is to go into the audio options and set "frequency of character voice response" to OFF. That goes a long way towards making them more tolerable.

Also, since this is Kiwifarms, let's see what Reddit's up to...

Screenshot 2021-09-18 at 14-52-04 r Pathfinder_Kingmaker.png

*sigh*
 
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It is a class. I have no idea if hellfire ray got fixed, but I do know that Arcane Trickster is one of the classes that powergamers are recommending a lot, due to sneak attack rays.

As for the party sperging - I didn't like the characters at first. A few of them have grown on me, and there are enough characters to choose from that I can fill a party with people I don't hate, but the Whedonism complaints are real and valid. My advice is to go into the audio options and set "frequency of character voice response" to OFF. That goes a long way towards making them more tolerable.

Also, since this is Kiwifarms, let's see what Reddit's up to...

View attachment 2549046
*sigh*
A pity artflow. ai doesn't do full body portraits. I have tons of custom ones for the smaller faces, but have nothing for the larger portraits.
:thinking:
 
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It is a class. I have no idea if hellfire ray got fixed, but I do know that Arcane Trickster is one of the classes that powergamers are recommending a lot, due to sneak attack rays.

As for the party sperging - I didn't like the characters at first. A few of them have grown on me, and there are enough characters to choose from that I can fill a party with people I don't hate, but the Whedonism complaints are real and valid. My advice is to go into the audio options and set "frequency of character voice response" to OFF. That goes a long way towards making them more tolerable.

Also, since this is Kiwifarms, let's see what Reddit's up to...

View attachment 2549046
*sigh*
Yaaaaaas qweeeeeeen slaaaaay.

Re: companions. It's a shame that you don't pick up the better ones until chapter 3. Regill has once again subverted the usual gnome race stereotypes. Guess Owlcat has a thing for making their gnome companions hardasses that enjoy constantly dunking on everything. The good aligned companions are again either bland (Sosiel) or amazingly stupid (Seelah). Ember is an interesting take on NG and creeped me out with how evangelical she becomes.

I've played and read through the original tabletop AP and I have to say they made a lot of changes for the better, though it's to be expected that they couldn't completely rewrite some of the major plot points. The AP is known for being retardedly written and I don't doubt a lot of people are going to want to do an evil playthrough the second time considering what the "good" side puts you through in the later chapters. Iomedae is a bitter hoe and I'll leave it at that.
 
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Unrelated to both Pathfinder games but has anyone messed up with Solasta yet? It's cheap enough that I might buy it for my friends if it works somewhat properly and the make-a-dungeon features are fun enough.
 
Re: companions. It's a shame that you don't pick up the better ones until chapter 3. Regill has once again subverted the usual gnome race stereotypes. Guess Owlcat has a thing for making their gnome companions hardasses that enjoy constantly dunking on everything. The good aligned companions are again either bland (Sosiel) or amazingly stupid (Seelah). Ember is an interesting take on NG and creeped me out with how evangelical she becomes.
Regill's good (odd because he's evil), as are the succubus and Ember, if you keep her response dialogue off. And Daeran is amusing in the same way a Slaanesh cultist is amusing.

The other ones I'm pretty meeeeh about.
  • Lann alternates between annoying and based; like Ember, you should keep his voice dialogue off, but his written dialogue is sometimes worthwhile.
  • Camellia is boring. HMMMM I WONDER IF SHE IS A GOOD GUY uggghhh
  • Sosiel is boring. Nice guy, but he should be off farming soy somewhere and not shitting up my crusade.
  • Slaweel or whatever her name is, is a diversity hire. I don't hate her, and she would make a solid fighter or even a warpriest for my main party, but she should NOT be a Paladin (yes, I know she's the Iconic Paladin, but Pathfinderdins are bad and they should feel bad). The fact that she's SASSY and MAKES JOKES (because she's BLACK, getit?! Black people are sassy and make jokes!) is annoying, but I could overlook that if she actually acted like a Paladin, instead of acting like a 90s antihero as envisioned by Whoopie Goldberg.
  • Wojack is also annoying. Some of his quests are fun, but the fact that he's one Whedon out of a dozen makes him wear out his welcome.
  • The furry actually starts improving once she turns into a furry. I still hate her, but less so than when I met her.
  • the dwarf slayer seems ok, but sort of generic, and why is he acting like such a badass when I'm a slayer with better stats and powers than him...? He's white, so I'm guessing he turns out to be either gay or trans, or evil, later on.
  • and Wenduag, I'm not sure why anyone would keep her alive or keep her around.

I also hate Irabeth (another diversity hire) and the gnome advisor, too. OH, and that goddamn dragon you get as an Azata; I had to reload my choice of Mythic Path because the first Azata quest alone was far too much.

A pity artflow. ai doesn't do full body portraits. I have tons of custom ones for the smaller faces, but have nothing for the larger portraits.
I see you are a man of culture.

When I saw the artflow thread on here, first thing I thought to do was use it for Baldurfinder portraits. Unfortunately, the top of the head gets cut off and there's no body, so the site's not ideal.
 
Unrelated to both Pathfinder games but has anyone messed up with Solasta yet? It's cheap enough that I might buy it for my friends if it works somewhat properly and the make-a-dungeon features are fun enough.
I played through it and the combat system is really well done, especially in regards to actually incorporating the 3 dimensions in combat (e.g. enemies on the walls, heights being accounted for). The dungeon maker is kind of a hassle to use, though I just tinkered with it a bit. The plot isn't anything special and using the 5e ruleset is a waste for such a well done combat system. Overall I'd recommend it if you get get it for $10 or under.

Edit: forgot to add this and didn't want to double-post
the dwarf slayer seems ok, but sort of generic, and why is he acting like such a badass when I'm a slayer with better stats and powers than him...? He's white, so I'm guessing he turns out to be either gay or trans, or evil, later on.
You have to give the Slavs some credit, but the slayer is pretty generic, but not pozzed. He basically is married to his craft as a heartless assassin and doesn't pretend to act otherwise. He has a daughter or something he left but that's pretty much it. He only gets pissed when you start criticizing his work. Still has more of an interesting character than Sosiel though.
 
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Sounds like they made a worse Gotrek then. Just started a Kingmaker campaign as a Goody-Two-Shoes (but seriously, the two evil persons you start with are just annoying as Grumpy Nihilistic Dwarf and Undead Haughty Elf), and even the "waah, men can't handle me" fem Barb and beauty-hating former Paladin are less annoying than those two. I mean, shit, as poorly-written and modern-day simp as the romance lines are with the angsty former Paladin I at least feel like there's a chance she'll quit being so angry at her good looks at the end.
 
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Regill's good (odd because he's evil), as are the succubus and Ember, if you keep her response dialogue off. And Daeran is amusing in the same way a Slaanesh cultist is amusing.

The other ones I'm pretty meeeeh about.
Regill's solid probably because he brings that practical soldiering experience of being an LE, he's harsh but not stupid. Ember unless you pass a perception check when you meet her is under the protection of Andoletta, an empyreal lord. She took pity on her child-like innocence which is why she saved her from the pyre.
Daeran I find kinda campy. Sosiel has no personality, same with Valerie from Kingmaker, Seelah is ehhh, I stopped using her cause her callouts were louder than anyone else's. Cami I had to have in the party as she was speced in buffs I needed for battle, I would have benched or killed her if not. Woljif they didn't know what to do with, he's okay if joking. Greybor's professionalism is kinda bland but he's okay. Lann is okay, he gives good advice and his monk class was crucial for me in Alushinyrra. His abundant step meant he could Dimension door up to a place, I'd use a scroll with Arue to get up there as well then we all go back down. If I took the entire party, I wouldn't be able to get back down, the game has something about moving to places where there isn't an active party member. Finniean was okay as a weapon but at Act 5 he's still only +1 meaning you have to go to the bladesmith's house right next to Iz in order to make him +5. Wenduag got herself killed unfortunately but I didn't know what to do with her.
Nenio I like, even if she interrupts a few times in dialog it's out of scientific curiosity. Her quest though, that was a hours slog through a maze of about a dozen puzzles and light redirecting. And it's one of the major dungeons for Act 5.
37dac61940faf67c94ca4110a5e0761189a204d185317b350b45c88c1b189bfe.png

The only hint here is "Must not be more than 3" and that was on an easily missed wall. Good luck. There's a knob one that's harder and I don't know how you'd figure that out apart from blind luck.
I also hate Irabeth (another diversity hire) and the gnome advisor, too. OH, and that goddamn dragon you get as an Azata; I had to reload my choice of Mythic Path because the first Azata quest alone was far too much.
Irabeth died defending Galfrey, so I'm not crying. And Aivu is good, I like my dragon friend who has 40/DR, permanent Heroism aura, 32 DC fear aura and a sonic breath attack that does 100+ damage and doesn't hurt allies, can also cast Greater Restoration 9 times a day and demons love to use level drains this late in the game. She's amazing.
There's a Fallout quest that was absolutely horrible. You'd find the mineshaft, get the reference but then underground you're forced and yes I mean actually forced to use the turn based mode of the game, you have to turn off leavers to stop endless respawns, the sigils will hold mass your party and the monsters have 55 AC with blur, mirror image and greater dispell. Aivu tries to use her breath weapon and the game says "Unavilaible for a reason:" but never gives the reason.
7b4b8f6b2b2c3ae5a9a629b27f0985d7e202907da2312c1ec543065ce86f5cd1.png

Aivu's fear aura caused one guy to run all the way back to the start of the caves, meaning I had to chase after him for another 10 minutes because he wouldn't sit still. This entire quest was designed by some from RPGCodex for pain.
I see you are a man of culture.
Good culture is using Arueshalae as a scout by giving her Invisibility from Woljif, not because she's useful and can disarm traps but because she whispers her callouts like "I'm glad I was useful to you" or "I will follow my dream." Did the same for Kanerah in Kingmaker and hearing "For you, anything" is good ASMR.

I finished yesterday and Act 5 really was rushed. Pulura's fall is an Act 3 dungeon on the Angel's path I think that they pushed back to 5. Baph's maze is a good dungeon but doesn't really tie into the overall feeling, it's kind of separate. Nenio's one here means you get to keep her as a companion and wouldn't be worth doing again, it's almost all puzzles with some combat. And then there's Iz, where you beat down Deskari but doesn't feel like a triumph, more just a thing to cross off the list. Threshold is short but most monsters there are 70+ AC, like Areelu or the Echo, for comparison, the Lantern King from Kingmaker had 44 AC.
Also tested out a bolt against Areshkagal and didn't get a stone from her, so go figure. There's no unique dialog for my character who worshiped Pharasma at the end, even though I got a blessing from her in Lost Chapel and all of Arue's struggles are summed up in 2 paragraphs. Greybor gets more description about what happens to him at the end than Arue does. Greybor both retired and took over an assassin's guild, so bad end triggers there.

It was clear that Act 5 is barely done in terms of plot and story. It's a half baked mess that Owlcat rushed out so they could beat Baldur's Gate 3. Thing is, this game needs at least another 6 months of bug fixing and Act 5 content before I'd consider it complete.
Also no decent shops Act 5, everyone is still selling +3 gear meaning you have to find your +5 stuff which is annoying.
It's still pretty good though, 140 hours my playtime. Even with the bugs, crusade management meant I had to rebuild my entire armies in Act 5, the long load times because the game remembers every area you've been to making cleaner a necessary mod and the rushed ending. It's getting to Drezen is a high point, the stuck on a rooftop in Alushinyrra because I cant Dimension Door down is a low.

Draven isn't in the game, the guy who teleported behind someone in Kingmaker, his hat is though.
6655a4231892ba7df707508d51c1314a61cfa6946fcd68b0b4c557aa0abd122f.png
 
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I'm kind of angry because I swaped to azata kineticist (until I can be a pile of bugs) and it's great... but basically unplayable in turn based because your gather power- low is a full round action instead of a move action. Turn based bugs are the worst and fairly common, game just decides your touch spells won't work unless you manually move first, charge likes to stop working mid charge the first round of combat, freebooter mark is a full round action instead of a move as well. Playing in real time mode is just terrible since most of your melee will have 3-5 attacks by level 10 and you have to figure out if the if the 16 numbers coming out of the melee stack are level 17 sabertooth cats mauling your characters or being themselves mauled and react quickly to keep your front line from dying.
 
I wish the opening was better. Act 2 does a way better job introducing characters and locations, the experience since marching on Drezen has been great

Kingmaker had a very strong first act, while in Wrath of the Righteous I think they do a poor job of introducing Kenabres, the important NPCs in the city, exactly what the hell the mongrels living beneath the city are, and why there is a freaking cultist den right below the city garrison.

Also demon is easily the least popular of the starting mythics, which is too bad because there's a lot of interesting content for it as the game progresses. I guess it's normal though as players usually don't go for outright evil paths, and if they are going to go evil it seems being a lich appeals more to people.
I guess being a demon though kinda trivializes the part where you're in the abyss, you spend like all of 10 minutes to slay a powerful demon and you get all his shit and followers based on demon justice

Also we've got another example now of a non triple A video game beating them when it comes to the soundtrack
It's weird since Demon is the only way to do Monk unarmed shit with a weapon, and yet Lich Spell Level boosting means you can do EK at level 1 for a caster, which is fucking sweet due to the BABs.

Been a while since I played though since this was beta, but goddamn is lich fucking tasty for making a 1/1 caster with 3/4 BAB. And then you dip into Magus since Owlcat doesnt have that dumb Magus broad study feat.
 
Okay, now that I've had a few days to think about it. I was digging a bit into the writing which lead me to the tv tropes page of Kingmaker, where in an AMA on subtext, a writer for the game said Linzi was written as gay. I got the feeling she leaned that way but I guess I didn't know how heavily.
That leads to my current thought of games like this and Disco Elysium in that marxist writers arn't writing better stories but are getting better at hiding subversive BS? I dunno.
 
Okay, now that I've had a few days to think about it. I was digging a bit into the writing which lead me to the tv tropes page of Kingmaker, where in an AMA on subtext, a writer for the game said Linzi was written as gay. I got the feeling she leaned that way but I guess I didn't know how heavily.
That leads to my current thought of games like this and Disco Elysium in that marxist writers arn't writing better stories but are getting better at hiding subversive BS? I dunno.
Her companion entries for Octavia are pretty gay. Especially the first one after you free her.
 
@ShoFuKan Don't know why I can't reply to your post but yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. Apparently there's a lot of cut content so people are hypothesizing that they might release a definitive edition. Aeon was supposed to have Terendelev as a companion and Lich was supposed to have a bigger buildup. Devil definitely got the shortest end of the stick content wise which makes me hesitant to dedicate another 60 hour playthrough on it.

My hot take is that there's not as big as an overlap between the BG3 audience and PF so they shouldn't have rushed it out. The PF system isn't easy to get into and Larian is an established name that they can't/shouldn't be trying to directly compete against. There's clearly a demand for more PF games and I do hope that Paizo keeps being relatively hands off approach, else I fear we might see them then Owlcat into another Beamdog.
 
Devil definitely got the shortest end of the stick content wise which makes me hesitant to dedicate another 60 hour playthrough on it.
Wait really? FUCK! I wanted to pursue that on my mythic path but I don't wanna do that if there is no content on it compared to the others that would just be added to some bullshit edition a year later.

:mad:

Is Swarm-that-walks unfinished as well?
 
Wait really? FUCK! I wanted to pursue that on my mythic path but I don't wanna do that if there is no content on it compared to the others that would just be added to some bullshit edition a year later.

:mad:

Is Swarm-that-walks unfinished as well?
From what others have said Devil has the least reactivity and content, which is a huge shame since it should be a huge deal for you to be in the Abyss in chapter 4. It was advertised as "the secret" mythic path in the Kickstarter, so I'm not surprised they slacked off on working on it. The Swarm path is fine from what I've heard and there's plenty of dialogue options for it as well.

I doubt they'll release a "new" version but I hope they'll patch in cut content or DLC later on. There's a "secret" ending like in Kingmaker but the buggyness of the final act makes me hesitant to try it.
 
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