Pathfinder: Kingmaker - From Tabletop to Desktop

I think the party members show up at some point in Act 5 of the main quest if you got a good ending for Lord of Nothing, and I think they also show up during the Dance of Masks DLC.
I believe there's also a way to use a save of the game to unlock a ridiculous ten-phase bossfight in the main campaign proper, but it's sortof like the secret endings - you're gonna need to look up a guide for it. I also believe you have to beat a secret boss in the side-campaign on one of the harder difficulties, which necessarily means building to cheese.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Tor Lugosi
Playing the game again. this time on Core. the first act fucking sucks balls. the bar fight alone is a bloody nightmare too many npcs to kill. i ended up skipping some fights to save money and resources. Red Salemence ring costs too much money but worth every penny for what i have plans for it. about to take Drazen and going Trickster path
 
Playing the game again. this time on Core. the first act fucking sucks balls. the bar fight alone is a bloody nightmare too many npcs to kill. i ended up skipping some fights to save money and resources. Red Salemence ring costs too much money but worth every penny for what i have plans for it. about to take Drazen and going Trickster path
Imo, core and above just make the game a complete unfun chore
 
I've forgotten how much I hate the camera gimmick in chapter four wherein you have to move the camera a certain way to get obstacles to move. Four years later and it's still buggy. Whoever came up with the idea should be fed their own intestines. Still, that bit of stupidity aside, I do like chapter four, especially how there's a multitude of ways to proceed through its main quest. I wish the demon city in Rogue Trader had as many ways through it and as much reactivity.

Also, I've been using the ToyBox cheat option to be able to see and pick whatever dialogue options you want regardless of mythic path or other limitations. Playing as an Aeon seems like it'd be endlessly frustrating and blue balling. 99% of the time, Aeon's special dialogue options go:
Aeon: I've seen into your soul and now know you have committed crimes!
NPC: nu-uh

No follow-up, no ability to judge them accordingly. The only time it seems like you're able to actually do anything is with party members and some bigger story events.
 
I've just started WOTR (Without playing Kingmaker, which I know isn't ideal, but I have better success with newer titles making me care about previous ones, I don't play many video games and am not very experienced with games so the lack of quality of life features can take me out of an older game if I don't have a prior interest in the franchise) and I'm genuinely having the time of my life. Normal mode FWIW.
I was just wondering when the building phase becomes less overwhelming for someone going in blind and not consulting guides? I'm not familiar with the Pathfinder system and there are so many classes, feats, prerequisites, and so on- I chose to have my characters run their straight initial classes because I'm playing on normal and just randomly found out I get a boar and a horse for my team. All of a sudden, I have to pick feats for pets I was surprised to get in the first place! It's so much fun, but I spend like 8 minutes per character who is about to level up to figure out what might be helpful and strengthen my group's cohesion and synergies.
 
  • Feels
Reactions: Anon88
I was just wondering when the building phase becomes less overwhelming for someone going in blind and not consulting guides?
Once you level up a couple of times you get used to it the beginning is the most overwhelming part. There's not a whole lot of choices you can make with your builds if you just stick to one class the whole time. Anyways even if you do somehow mess your builds up it doesn't matter that much because you're on normal. I don't use guides for my character builds either and my first play through some of my builds were pretty bad and I still managed to beat the game on that difficulty.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Triple Flutz
I was just wondering when the building phase becomes less overwhelming for someone going in blind and not consulting guides?
I'd say around Level 7. For most classes that's when you start getting Level 3 - 4 magic spells like cure critical wounds so Cleric can actually be a proper healer now
I'm not familiar with the Pathfinder system and there are so many classes, feats, prerequisites, and so on- I chose to have my characters run their straight initial classes because I'm playing on normal and just randomly found out I get a boar and a horse for my team. All of a sudden, I have to pick feats for pets I was surprised to get in the first place! It's so much fun, but I spend like 8 minutes per character who is about to level up to figure out what might be helpful and strengthen my group's cohesion and synergies.
Pets are real easy, make sure they have 4 Int if you're using them as a mount so you can get the mounted combat feat then put stats into STR, DEX and CON. They're essentially meat shields. For feats you want improved initiative, improved unarmed and the Crane Wing monk form from there. Crane Wing adds +4 AC as long as you're unarmed, which mounts are. If mounted like a horse, then charge and trample feats might serve them better.

Went through the Dance With Masks DLC a week or two ago and it was pretty fun, can see the influences of the ME3 DLC. Small adventure against Razmir with Trickster having the option to sell him a book. There's the added romance parts, Arue takes you to the temple of Desna, Galfrey continues to be shit cause she just rides away and Cami has the best cause she so very much wants to stab you.
Untitled.png

The expanded epilogues mod covered the new DLC and the Razmir slide was pretty funny.
92462ce918fcf4b5d8dd4d674cc05b299d8f3ab14b345fb2f702946eed1f3bb3.png
 
Cami has the best cause she so very much wants to stab you.
this has no right to be so fucking endearing
but camellia is played completely straight so it just works
The expanded epilogues mod covered the new DLC and the Razmir slide was pretty funny.
I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anon88 and Rockzo
It's so much fun, but I spend like 8 minutes per character who is about to level up to figure out what might be helpful and strengthen my group's cohesion and synergies.
And you'll probably do it wrong, but that's part of the fun. The system has so much nonsense in it that it's not unlike a language - the characters you make at first are going to be salvageable and get the job done, but it'll also be clear that you're not quite fluent yet. By the time you finish the game, you'll have a much better understanding, and if you give it another go, you'll be surprised at how much better your builds come together.

So like you, I started playing on Normal. I made something like a straight Vivisectionist in Kingmaker, and my builds for most of the companions were complete and total dogshit. I moved it up to daring with Wrath, and I made a really bizarre gish that was inefficient but fun (Fighter-Wizard-Bard-EK, the one point in Bard literally because it removes the arcane spell failure rate on all shields with all spells, not just bard spells). Then I upped it to Core, made an Aldori Defender - Duelist evasion-tank stacked up with every riposte-related feat in the game. Hard and Unfair require you to insert a bit of cheese into your builds, but Core really brings a lot more features of the system to life than does Daring, and it offers up a great incentive to figure out the little things.

For example, Woljif starts as an Eldritch Scoundrel. A lot of people try to move him into Arcane Trickster, but this is a really bad move - his spell progression will remain just as slow as it was before, and he'll get his BaB bonus downgraded from 3/4 to 1/2 for those ten levels. The AT capstone, which lets you apply sneak not just to rays and ranged-touch spells but instead to AoE spells as well, is pretty bad on him because he caps out at 6th-level spells and his saves for things like fireball aren't that great. So he's actually better to take to Scoundrel 20, with his spellcasting mostly being used to pack party buffs (and transformation, which gives him a full 20 BaB). ...but then you also might notice that level 3 in rogue is the fastest that you can turn daggers into DEX->Damage with Finesse Training. You can straight up stop taking levels in rogue and swap him over to a full-BaB class (Slayer, Ranger, Fighter, Bloodrager, etc) and he winds up shitting out damage at the cost of less utility.

Seelah is built to be your early tank with those feats in dodge and shield focus. Eventually, you'll come to be mildly annoyed at the fact that she has these feats, because paladin is a lot better with a two-handed weapon. She still brings insane utility as Paladin is one of the best classes in the entire game, but she falls off of being a reliable tank pretty early on, unless you dump a feat into Armor Focus: Heavy and grab the Mythic feat for Heavy - Avoidance around level 7/8. And so in my most recent run, I turned her into a shield bashing Slayer with a two-level dip into PLD for CHA -> Saves, and Shield Focus ceases to be a wasted feat. She spits out damage at the cost of utility.

Sosiel also has one of the worst fucking builds imaginable, and once you understand the system better, you come to hate that fucking character. Cleric is such a good class that it doesn't ultimately matter - he's still really useful - but shit like Extra Channeling, Toughness, and throwing a feat away on Heavy Armor proficiency is really fucking wild.

One of the new archetypes from Dance of Masks, Magic Deceiver, pairs idiotically well with Arcane Trickster and Azata. The sheer, ridiculous, stupid amount of damage you can shit out through combining spells, applying sneak dice to all spells, and pairing it with zippy magic is hilarious. I haven't yet gotten to 6th-level to see how retarded Chain Lightning is going to be, but I can only imagine. SLA Hellfire Ray also pairs perfectly with AT, even if it also begs for a one-level dip in loremaster to get imp-critical: ray.
 
Thanks everyone for the help- I'm actually at level 19 right now and slowly clearing up the Act 5 map and just doing things I find interesting as they pop up. As y'all said, part of the fun was utterly fucking up builds and using what I learned to refine it. Right now, my previously kinda mid MC just keeps on stacking crits and shield bashes on top of her boar and it's completely ridiculous, I can't wait to play it again and tinker with more classes and potentially tick the difficulty setting up by one either next run or the one after.
Two questions- is it possible to build Trever in a way where he doesn't fucking suck? I don't especially like him or Sosiel, but I like to have all my characters well-rounded even when I don't use them, and he pales in comparison to literally everyone else.
Second, I absolutely love Regill, he's probably my favorite of the bunch, but I encountered a bug that makes it so that his newer gnome hooked hammers don't show up in his list of potential weapons, meaning I'm stuck with the second one I encountered when I've since collected 2 new, more powerful ones. I unfortunately took a bunch of feats related to his mastery of the weapon type, do I need to respec into something else or is there a fix to this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anon88
is it possible to build Trever in a way where he doesn't fucking suck?
He starts are LV14 with 4 different classes. You could put more level ups into barbarian and fighter, therefore increasing his damage, using smite chaos from being a paladin and having proficiency in Falchion. You could also use Toolbox to reset him to LV1 to give him a viable chance with fighter and armored hulk for example.
Second, I absolutely love Regill, he's probably my favorite of the bunch, but I encountered a bug that makes it so that his newer gnome hooked hammers don't show up in his list of potential weapons, meaning I'm stuck with the second one I encountered when I've since collected 2 new, more powerful ones. I unfortunately took a bunch of feats related to his mastery of the weapon type, do I need to respec into something else or is there a fix to this?
Probably need to respec.

OwlCat did a stream a few days ago answering some questions:

-No Pathfinder, Starfinder, World of Darkness projects in development
-Future games will be fully voiced
-One new game will be UE5, will be more cinematic and will have a larger budget
-Other games may be traditional isometric CRPGs
-The games in development are NOT new IPs from Owlcat
-Potential Kingmaker/WOTR remaster to 2E ruleset in the future (Not confirmed, they aren’t sure whether to do it yet and even if they did that wouldn’t be a thing for atleast 3 years)
 
-One new game will be UE5, will be more cinematic and will have a larger budget
The fully cinematic game is rumored to be a third person sci-fi action rpg which sounds a lot like Mass Effect but I can't imagine Bioware giving that IP to anyone else. I'm very interested in hearing more about it.
-The games in development are NOT new IPs from Owlcat
That's very dumb of them I think Owlcat has enough of a following at this point to pull off their own IP. Continuing to use other people's IPs is just going to make it harder for them to make money in the long run. The sooner you make something you actually own the better. With having four games in development right now you would think one of them would be their own IP right?
 
Two questions- is it possible to build Trever in a way where he doesn't fucking suck?
If you find a mod that allows you to full-respec, lol. Otherwise, nah, his set-in-stone build is complete shit and there's no helping Armored Hulk - it's a garbage archetype.
but I encountered a bug that makes it so that his newer gnome hooked hammers don't show up in his list of potential weapons, meaning I'm stuck with the second one I encountered when I've since collected 2 new, more powerful ones. I unfortunately took a bunch of feats related to his mastery of the weapon type, do I need to respec into something else or is there a fix to this?
Try just equipping them anyways. Mine never showed up as being able to equip, and yet he always could, so I don't understand the bug.

Regill would also require a full-respec mod to move away from the Hooked Hammers. When he comes to you, he's already spent a lot of real estate on pumping them up. Much as I like Regill as a character and think his build is actually pretty cool, he's kindof annoying in that you're stuck doing the same thing with him every playthrough. Mythic Finesse is always a must-grab at M2.
That sucks. No CRPG is improved by fully voicing every line.
I mean, even beyond the performances sucking shit, I just imagine the nightmare of writing for these things when every line has to be finalized years and years in advance with absolutely no wiggle-room because that would require a costly reshoot. Having to condense everything in the first place to cut back on recording costs, and then also if it comes out in playtesting that something isn't really explained well or doesn't flow - well, sucks to suck, but you can't really go in there and spruce it up because it's too late.

I remember shortly after BG3 launched, there was some guy that everyone was dunking on because he said "please don't expect all indie studios to put out the same thing as BG3, please don't treat this like the new standard." 'Lo and behold, that man was absolutely fucking correct and the average dipshit isn't aware that BG3 cost over $100M, but now everything needs to be BG3.
 
That sucks. No CRPG is improved by fully voicing every line.
Voice main quest, character quests, romances and some party banter, leave side quests, other party banter and others quests as needed. You get the voiced stuff for people that want it but if you're going to have dialog heavy side quests, you don't need to pay for voice lines of minor quests.
Kinda reminds me that Wasteland 3 is fully voiced I think but that doesn't have as many written words as WOTR does for example.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Triple Flutz
I forgot to post when I finished the game, but I really, really enjoyed WOTR. There were very few moments I thought were on the annoying side like Blackwater, but I still enjoyed seeing the plot unfold, seeing my companions grow, (or not) and seeing my builds come online. I could have stood to push the difficulty up a notch once I got the hang of things, but I'm still glad I picked normal for my first playthrough because the learning curve wasn't too punishing, and now I can just try the next step up on my next playthrough.
I picked the Angel path and had my Commander romance Lann because he seemed the sanest of all options for straight females even though I'm not super driven by in-game romances and because I figured I wanted to experience the game as intended and that it would be a shame to miss out on extra content, and I didn't mind the romance.
I generally don't care for gnomes too much because they're often employed as comic relief and not much else, but Regill was my favorite character of the game by far. One of the high points of the game for me was the end of his companion quest.
My preference is for most of the game to not be developed with voice acting in mind, and I really liked the fact that most lines were unvoiced but then some pivotal scenes for the story or for companion quests were sometimes voiced- the dialogue and lore didn't feel like it suffered as much as it can when everything is thought of through the lens of what will sound good, how many lines can be paid for, etc.
Really enjoyed it, will def play again!
 
Back