Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

Stat distribution kinda sucked for the older mons, especially Gen 2 but I think a lot of older mons were hit hardest by the Ability Arms Race. With the powercreep (fuck Zacian) the older mons got screwed over by getting abilities when they were new and mostly meh. Hidden Abilities helped a little bit, like Multiscale Dragonite and Unaware Quagsire, but most haven't had any of the 3 slots adjusted since they were given them initially and they suffer for it.

Newer gens have introduced much stronger abilities and even early game Pokemon nowadays get good shit like Galewings (before nerf), Intimidate, Scrappy and Huge Power. And then the poor older mons like Pidgeot get stuck with Keen Eye, Tangled Feet and Big Pecks for it's HA.

TL:biggrin:R Pidgeot and other garbage need some of the love GF has for Zacian and Charizard sent it's way.
All you needed was a pokemon with ice beam and thunderbolt. Then you could steamroll all the way through the elite four...
 
Let’s do better examples.
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and then
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but also
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Re: the Eeveelutions debate, I've always thought an interesting way to handle it would be to have a regional variant of Eevee, and have it's evolutions be all clear derivatives of the originals. So, for example, Sylveon's ribbons and bows grow out of control and wrap all around the body, making for a ghost-type mummy variant.
Holy fuck that genius. Now I want a mummy Sylveon that ghost type.
 
Even though it was handy for remember which types were Special back then, I'm all for some eeveelutions that were physical types. Flareon got absolutely screwed by being the "attack" eeveelution and it never got particularly better by the time Gen IV rolled around. I'm ready to move past all that though and get my Dirt Eevee with Muddy Water, Gunk Shot, and Celebrate.
 
Flareon is alright in Generation 1. It's Special was 110 so it could hit pretty hard with Flamethrower/Fire Blast and Body Slam/Hyper Beam. Too bad it's so slow and has paper thin physical bulk. Awful coverage, but all Eeveelutions suffer from that. Game Freak has always seemed to hate Flareon though, from giving it a worse Special Attack in Gen 2 to passing it over for Flare Blitz in Gens 4 and 5 so it got stuck with Fire Fang.

I still want a Steel Eevee that's an absolute tank. Or finally round off the formally Special types with Dragon Eevee.
 
...Those are worse examples? The first two at least.

For those who don't know, the tiers in this website are Uber, Overused/OU, Underused/UU, Rarely Used/RU, Never Used/NU, and PU, which is a pun on pokemon which just stink. This is largely determined by their popularity in pokemon showdown matches the tier - more popular pokemon are assumed to be better. There's also the BL tiers, which are pokemon that are too good for their tier but not popular in the next tier up. If a Pokemon isn't even popular in PU, it's considered Untiered.

Beedrill is so bad that it's in the Untiered, but the much more aggressively statted Orbeetle is so good that it's in the... Untiered!

Raticate is so shite that it's in the untiered, but the much more defensively built greedent managed to reach the lofty heights of... Untiered!

These groups are easy comparisons to make, but the problem is that they're so shite by default that being half-decent is an unironically good thing.

As for the birds, that's a better example but still pretty iffy. Over time, the birds have generally improved in quality. Staraptor is UUBL, and has been UUBL for it's entire existence. Pidgeot was bottom-tier trash when it started, and the highest it's ever been is NU. More recently, we've had Talonflame, which was Ubers in it's time, and Corviknight, which is comfortably OU, but sandwiched between them is Toucannon who also came out Untiered.

It's not that they're getting squeezed out by new hotness, its that they were never good in the first place, and these newer ones occasionally fluke to greatest but are mostly just decent at best.

Also: Learn to thumbnail, mate. it's obnoxiously huge on PC.
 
Man, remember when Snorlax was so good that an entire generation's Smogon OU was centered around it? It could Curse up, throwing out Earthquakes and Double Edges that would break teams in half while becoming impenetrable itself because Fighting types were mediocre-to-bad in Gen II (you had to get lucky with a critical Cross-Chop from Machamp or simply eat shit) and when it did take damage from an exploding Cloyster, Forretress, Exeggutor, or (lol) Gengar, it'd just Rest it off. It was the best RestTalker, an astounding Belly Drummer, and could even learn Flamethrower or Fire Blast if you were sick of dealing with pesky Steely phazers that shrugged off your EQ/DEs (namely Skarmory). It was a god in competitive Pokemon, and 100% worth picking up in-game even if it was in the far back half, because that fucker had the other Leftovers.

Anyway, I wonder what Snorlax is up to these days.

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...Those are worse examples? The first two at least.

For those who don't know, the tiers in this website are Uber, Overused/OU, Underused/UU, Rarely Used/RU, Never Used/NU, and PU, which is a pun on pokemon which just stink. This is largely determined by their popularity in pokemon showdown matches the tier - more popular pokemon are assumed to be better. There's also the BL tiers, which are pokemon that are too good for their tier but not popular in the next tier up. If a Pokemon isn't even popular in PU, it's considered Untiered.

I just think pokemon should have focused more on the PVE side of things where it is at its best when exploring hidden areas in the post game with your favorite pokemon.

All those resources spent on the TCG tournaments and shit like smogon could have easily made a game better than sun/moon on the switch and had plenty left to spare.
 
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Man, remember when Snorlax was so good that an entire generation's Smogon OU was centered around it? It could Curse up, throwing out Earthquakes and Double Edges that would break teams in half while becoming impenetrable itself because Fighting types were mediocre-to-bad in Gen II (you had to get lucky with a critical Cross-Chop from Machamp or simply eat shit) and when it did take damage from an exploding Cloyster, Forretress, Exeggutor, or (lol) Gengar, it'd just Rest it off. It was the best RestTalker, an astounding Belly Drummer, and could even learn Flamethrower or Fire Blast if you were sick of dealing with pesky Steely phazers that shrugged off your EQ/DEs (namely Skarmory). It was a god in competitive Pokemon, and 100% worth picking up in-game even if it was in the far back half, because that fucker had the other Leftovers.

Anyway, I wonder what Snorlax is up to these days.

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See, that's how you make an argument like this, you show a Pokemon that actually was good and show how it's dropped in popularity.

But even then, note one particular line.

It could Curse up, throwing out Earthquakes and Double Edges that would break teams in half while becoming impenetrable itself because Fighting types were mediocre-to-bad in Gen II (you had to get lucky with a critical Cross-Chop from Machamp or simply eat shit)
Snorlax wasn't an OU threat simply because of it's own merits. Snorlax was an OU threat because Fighting types took several generations to become even decent, meaning it was a tank without a weakness.

As soon as good fighting types started making their presence known, snorlax began dropping in popularity. and it was slow and gradual, too.

There's another interesting OU pokemon from gen 1 and 2 to look at. One that went from UUBL in RSE (unpopular in OU but too good for UU) all the way down to NU in Gen 4.

That would be Jynx.

The reason for it's perilous drop is simple: Sucker Punch. Jynx always had sweeper-like stats even in gen 1, and a lot of that crippling overspecialisation with paper-thin physical defenses. But it's Ice and Psychic typing, combined with the Physical/Special being aligned to types, meant that darks and fires were working off Special and there wasn't a lot of Pokemon that could combine a jynx weakness with the bulk or speed to punish it.

As soon as the physical/special split came in, Jynx crumpled like a paper towel.

There's another reason worth discussing. Why Jynx and Snorlax ruled those early OU tiers.

Their stats aren't like, say, Charizard, Pidgeot, or Beedrill. They're not well-rounded at all.

They both have the crazy, spiky, overspecialised stats everyone else is complaining about being prevalent more with modern Pokemon.

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Specialisation is, has always been, and will always be the best way to rule the roost in competitive Pokemon. Always. The only exceptions are Pokemon with high enough BSTs that they don't need to cripple anything for it.
 
To be fair, the most minmaxed Pokémon is from Gen 2 and its competitive status is…strange. It’s Shuckle, and it only became good when it got access to multiple entry hazards.
 
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