Programming or Trades? - "Learn to code!" VS "Learn to weld!"

[Foghotten]

A bit of context here: I've been a tutor of history and linguistics for several years. I'm nearing the end of a contract, and I'm pretty much sitting on a dead-end career with zero job security. Freelance work in this field pays peanuts, and working for non-profits in this field is the equivalent of a court sentencing. I have huge projects I made on the side related to my studies, but I know better than to sell or present them to universities in case I actually struck gold.

So, I'm back to weighing options, both of which appeal to what I fundamentally like doing: fixing and creating shit. Trouble is, I'm kinda torn between manual labor and coding: the former has very reliable employment, and has practical benefits that will never leave me, but mastering the latter means that I could finally put to rest several ideas I've had in mind by giving myself an excuse to finally get to work (and even take one of my current projects a step further by turning it into software) at the cost of working in a field that might experience death-by-pajeet/LLMpocalypse in decades.

wat do

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Programming as a hobby and commission source, manual labor for big bucks and potential early retirement and/or disability checks

 

[mindlessobserver]

AI is going to replace most programmers. The biggest mega autists with Copilot will be able to do the work of 20 people who don't actually enjoy it and are just trying to get a paycheck. Tagentially related but AI is going to replace pretty much all middle income professional jobs. Nobody is going to need Paralegals, Accountants, Admin Assistants or Nurse Practitioners in the next 10 years.

Women most effected.

AI can't fix a broken breaker box though. Or clean out a drain.

 

[Angry Shoes]

Work with your brain, not with your back.

 

[batterybee]

If you have a concern about the time it will take to start earning, with welding you could be making money pretty quick if you pick it up well.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

If you can get in on trades you'd be better off doing trades.
Idk what ideas you're talking about with programming, but as you get older you'll appreciate having a more stable thing to rely on even if it's not flashy.

Also, this is just personal but imo there's a very significant passive advantage to being out interfacing with the real world vs. being inside a troll cave somewhere tapping away at a keyboard.
It presents physical opportunities and connections that you won't get otherwise, and it'll help make you resistant to the worst of the modern condition.

Bonus if you do something applicable to domestic (electric, plumbing, HVAC, etc), then that's something you don't have to pay someone else to do on your house.

One of the only life advantages with computer work is that it's usually remote, where I've noticed a bizarre trend in stay-at-home dads who can save on daycare because they're in a home office all day. But that's also what makes it so easy to outsource.

Although that said I'm sure whichever you go with you're going to spend time wondering if you weren't better off doing the opposite, but that's life.

Trouble is, I'm kinda torn between manual labor and coding

I don't think being in a trade is classified as manual labor. Obviously it's work you're doing manually, but it isn't like you're a somalian immigrant out hauling bags of sand or something. That is manual labor, and that's NOT something you want to do long term because your body's going to start to break and it won't be worth it.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

I've been a tutor of history and linguistics for several years.

Do tell. Which languages were involved?

I have huge projects I made on the side related to my studies, but I know better than to sell or present them to universities in case I actually struck gold.

I'm curious, but understand they won't be mentioned here.

Trouble is, I'm kinda torn between manual labor and coding

Choose neither.

AI is going to replace most programmers. The biggest mega autists with Copilot will be able to do the work of 20 people who don't actually enjoy it and are just trying to get a paycheck.

I've mentioned this in other threads, but one programmer can already do the work of dozens, or hundreds, by metaprogramming. Most programming jobs exist to occupy people. Businesses fundamentally prefer to have many employees who can be abused over a few who can't.

 

[The Luigi Player]

The day that AI replaces programmers will also be the year of replacing many labor jobs, including trades. But most AI "auto-coding" is so shit that you have to recheck in the code for errors (believe me, there is a lot). It would be the same amount of time as if you had written the code.

 

[Mitt Doggy Dogg]

As someone whos done both learn a fucking trade. I was a journeymen union electrican IBEW worker at 18, switched to HVAC around 22 and since I was about 30 I have been a software developer. A few years ago software was the deal but its a dead market right now. And you don't wanna go most of your life being a lazy software dev then having to go back to trade work. But if you wanna make money with a trade, get your masters and start your own company.

 

[glow]

AI is going to replace most programmers.

AI will replace low-skill assembly-line tier programmers who put together shitty wordpress websites and install plugins and do some custom integration coding between boring business systems.

I can then imagine it replacing the slightly better but still relatively lower skill programmers who build database front-ends that model business processes and integrates pre-existing systems.

The guy who builds those systems, the database, the OS, the device drivers, etc is unlikely to be out of a job in our lifetimes however. Try to be that guy.

It's also exceedingly unlikely that someone builds a more dexterous and versatile tool than the human hand in that time too. It's probably easier and has the greatest chance of success to join the trades unless you truly love and are constantly fascinated by computers. If you just want money then you probably won't have the passion to learn more than the bare minimum, and then you'll be replaced by a 22 year old business analyst wielding a large language model one day.

 

[Mitt Doggy Dogg]

The guy who builds those systems, the database, the OS, the device drivers, etc is unlikely to be out of a job in our lifetimes however. Try to be that guy.

I personally have no fear of AI replacing me, but I have noticed Indians and other foreigners taking jobs that should be stuck in America. Ive been thinking a lot lately about following what my parents did and either learn to be a bookkeeper or open a store. When I was a kid my dad owned 30 chainstores in 6 states, he retired with a small flea market booth and was happy, my mom was a book keeper for a lot of corporations as big or bigger then anyone I developed software for and now she also owns a flea market booth, a few houses and seems happy. It just seems like a very low work, low skill way to make money but they like people a lot more then I do. I worked in their stores when I was a kid and hated every minute of it so I don't see myself making that work out.

 

[Irregardless]

Programming as a hobby and commission source, manual labor for big bucks and potential early retirement and/or disability checks

The only people able to make any money off programming as a side gig are the people already doing it as a full time job, or at least a job tangential to it. Unless you do it every day or have a history of putting in a massive amount of time into it, the amount of time it takes to get get enough to be paid as a programmer and actually make money is not something you can do with a full time job. Somebody would be better off just hiring a pajeet, or programmer who gets things done fast and cheap. There are no pipe fitters manually slaving away by day and writing complex code by night, it just isn't a thing.

 

[Mitt Doggy Dogg]

Unless you do it every day or have a history of putting in a massive amount of time into it, the amount of time it takes to get get enough to be paid as a programmer

Yea you really do need to do it daily. When I first started it was just a hobby I enjoyed that turned into a forum that supplemented my income, and from there I somehow switched from trade work to full time development.

 

[sadrefrigerator]

You can ignore anyone who brings up AI or pajeets. They have no actual knowledge in the field. To put it briefly, actually coding is a very small part of the job as a software developer and coding AI is completely useless in the hands of somewho doesn't know what they are doing. The limiting factor in a developer's productivity isn't how much code they can write. Outsourcing fears have been around since before most people here have been alive. There it's never come to fruition and nothing has changed recently to suggest that it will.

What's your timeline like? It's nearly impossible to get into software development right now in the entry level. This will likely improve in the coming years, but for the time being, you won't be able to enter until the field unless you are very good and very lucky.

The jobs in software vary widely. There are jobs where you're on call 24 hours a day putting out fires once every other week, but there are also a lot of jobs where it is super relaxing and you don't have to put in more than a few hours of work a day. Job security isn't much of a thing in the field, but most people don't care too much. You can get paid a lot, a lot more than someone working as an employee in trades can ever hope to make. A trade employee is paid his rate because he is at a basic level expected to do x number of jobs an hour. Software developers are completely different. You are expected to meet current milestones as a team. You are also expected to maintain a system to keep it from failing. This introduces a lot of room for politics. A lot of times you'll get out in unfair situations where there is nothing you can do to fix a problem or escape blame for something that isn't your fault. In a lot of cases you just have a to find a new job.

Benefits in good companies are much better than what you would get in trade. You won't have any trouble getting far more vacation than the most tenured unioned tradesman. If you're sick, just tell everyone you're sick for the day and no one will bother you about it.

 

[Grub]

Bonus if you do something applicable to domestic (electric, plumbing, HVAC, etc), then that's something you don't have to pay someone else to do on your house.

Out of these I would say pick electrical. Plumbers have to deal with shit and install plumbing is seems kind of meh. New construction plumbers always seem miserable.

HVAC is fucking hard. Like if trades were a video game, you're picking extra hard mode. You basically have to do all the shit plumbers do, except with bigger pipes, you have to do electrical and you have to haul around big ass heavy fucking equipment. Sometimes onto rooftops or down into dark fucking holes underneath houses. As well as plumbing and electrical, you have to pretty much be able to do some light framing, drywall work, concrete work, gas fitting, welding and you'll be digging trenches and all the trenches you dig have to be deep because gas codes are a bitch. Your hands will constantly be full of cuts and injuries, you will be going up ladders and up the sides of buildings pretty much every day. If you go on the service side you'll pretty much have no life, or sleep or anything other than answering your phone for callouts any time night or day.

It is rewarding though and you get to do literally a little bit of every trade. You even get to fuck around with electronics and mechanical shit as well. Also the refrigeration cycle is cool as fuck and the modern world wouldn't exist without it.

Electricians though. Those guys fucking have the greatest jobs ever. They're always happy and cheerful as fuck. Fucking show up. Drill a few little holes. Shove their wires through, staple em up, come back to hook up their plugs, switches, lights and the panel and fucking done. They don't even clean up after themselves. Pieces of wire and insulation and shit just strewn around wherever they go. I don't even understand how they get away with that shit without customers complaining but they do. Like for real. You want a single wire ran from your panel, out to somewhere, a couple hours work, a little under $500 in materials, $800-$1000+.

 

[Irregardless]

Yea you really do need to do it daily. When I first started it was just a hobby I enjoyed that turned into a forum that supplemented my income, and from there I somehow switched from trade work to full time development.

Yea programming is one of those things that the amount of time you need to put into it to make any kind of profit off of it is the kind of time that would make you go "Why don't I just do this as a full time job too?". You're better off doing it full time and doing freelance for extra cash. I just have no idea why somebody would promote being a day laborer who does coding on the side, it sounds absolutely retarded lol. If anything you'd want to do the opposite, become a programmer and do fucking carving or wood working on the side.

 

[Mitt Doggy Dogg]

I just have no idea why somebody would promote being a day laborer who does coding on the side

When I first started I was a HVAC tech and in the winter when I wasn't on call every night, I enjoyed doing freelance gigs more to get better at programming or solving problems which is more why I enjoyed it, but I didn't need the money then I just did it because I enjoyed it. Now after 20 years of doing this shit daily fuck you pay me and I still will drag my feet. I can't see someone working 50+ hours a week having the time to do freelance work, hell I spend more time getting freelance work then I do doing it and I don't bother with stupid platforms like upwork or freelance. And yea I could easily see doing the opposite being more enjoyable. You gotta have some kinda hobbys so carving, wood working hell even fixing your own house up is enjoyable

 

[SuicidalStar]

i managed to find work at a place that's not run by insane people. it's definitely possible to find a job that you wont hate but like others have mentioned manual labor will be something that cant be replaced easily. my dad worked as a contractor since he was a teenager and he's had constant steady employment and still makes more than me even after he slowed down for retirement.

 

[Demonslayer1776]

Honestly these are such radically different career paths that I don't think they can be compared. The right choice depends on you as a person. To be a good programmer you have to put in alot of upfront work to learn the thought process and generally be a more mental worker. People will bring up AI and Pajeets in regards to software but if you're a truly good fit for that role you won't be replaced anytime soon. If you are insightful and creative you will be fine. AI hallucinates and Pajeets place 50 if statements next to eachother. To work in the trades you have less upfront studying but have to put in alot more physical labor and be willing to get a bit dirty. As you progress you will likely progress towards more of a sales or management role so you should have good people skills. I generally don't think most people are equally suited for both and you should focus on which is a better fit for your personality.

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

New construction plumbers always seem miserable.

Those mouth breathing retards deserve to be miserable. That said, you couldn't pay me to work in unconditioned houses all summer.

If I wasn't stuck on playing in the dirt, I would being looking at HVACR, preferably somewhere that does mostly commercial and light industrial.