XS is an AmWay product, isn't it? I got pulled into one of those with a friend. I hit them with too many tough questions and went back to work the next day. My bullshit detector is pretty strong.
My cousin is in one of them right now. It's one of the weight loss & nutrition BS things. I'm just going to say he's not the best person to sell anything related to either. I could since I gain & lose weight almost at will, but I hate people and I'm not a sap like him.
On an unrelated note, the MCA posts have become such an annoyance on my Facebook feed that I decided to hide all posts from these idiots. From what I'm getting, these people friend random people on Facebook, then tag them onto their pictures that show them holding their money out like kingpins while making TL;DR posts that aren't worth reading because it's literally the same message pasted over and over again from other MCA bots about how "THIS WORKED 4 MII CUZ I'M OPEN MINDED! MESSAGE ME ON HOW 2 GET DIS DOUGH NERMAL PEEPZ!". Part of me wants to start posting links exposing MCA just to rile them up.
I also did the same with some Wake Up Now idiot that friended me on Facebook back when I did Veema. All of his posts are nothing but network marketing this, and MLM that, and like all the other MLM idiots makes claims how college is a "scam" and how you have to work hard to earn money (AKA screw people over). I plan on going over my friend list just to delete everyone that's associated with some sort of MLM.
I actually went for a job interview many years ago for what I later found out was the same knife company Chris briefly worked for.
By the middle of the interview I knew what it was and had decided against it, but decided to finish the interview anyway just out of politeness...while Chris paid for knife sets to harass his family and their friends to buy amazing knives and scissors that can cut pennies.
When I was 18 I signed up for Vector as well, aka Cutco. I didn't have $130 or whatever for the demo kit so I pretty much turned the job down. Also I found out shortly after it was a scam.
I hear that if you really want some good knives, just get a job with them, buy the demo kit, then quit (because the demo kit would be worth like, a grand if you bought it from them as a customer) but I've heard that there are in fact better knives available that cost less.
I hear that if you really want some good knives, just get a job with them, buy the demo kit, then quit (because the demo kit would be worth like, a grand if you bought it from them as a customer) but I've heard that there are in fact better knives available that cost less.
This is true and another facet of the MLM life. The product is okay but you can probably get something much cheaper (in the case of household products) and/or in a greater quantity/quality. For $130 it's not like you bought a bunch of rusty razorblades and with maintenance they're not too bad... just like any product. My bizarre uncle who bears a striking resemblance to a drunken, disheveled Nobuo Uematsu gave them to my mom and dad as a wedding gift. Said uncle also dabbled in the Church of Satan and at another point Scientology if that gives you an idea of the kind of guy he is.
One of my friends who got in only far enough to buy the demo kit ended up taking them when she moved out.
One of the brands that I feel is an exception is Avon. The women who I knew sold it did it to supplement their income and because the product is pretty good. There's hits and misses like any beauty product but by no means were any of them dependent on it as a primary source of income.
Slightly OT, but I will say that the existence of pyramid schemes did lead to one good thing: that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Dee gets suckered into one. It's one of my favorites.
Believe me, I know. That's what enrages me the most about pyramid schemes. It'd be one thing if some guy just took your money and ran. It'd suck, but you could probably get over it and learn from your mistake, move on with your life. In pyramid schemes, however, they like to place all the blame on you when things don't turn out as planned.
In his memoirs, Joseph "Yellow Kid" Weil, the greatest con-artist in American history, said this was the typical strategy he'd use on "marks" (suckers) in his scams. When some get-rich-quick scheme Weil promoted "failed", and the dupe was cheated out of a small fortune, he'd blame the victim for making some crucial mistake, or not "believing" enough in the work. Often, Weil would successfully steer the mark to another, costlier con by manipulating his guilt, and promising an even bigger payoff if only he worked hard and believed in the new scam.
Goddamn! This Jamaican guy just called me four times in less than 15 minutes! I ended up blocking the number. I guess I am going to have to do some research and find out how to report this.
Goddamn! This Jamaican guy just called me four times in less than 15 minutes! I ended up blocking the number. I guess I am going to have to do some research and find out how to report this.
Well, it's interesting reading some posts in here from people being shocked and just learning about these. Which isn't bad, the more you know and all that. For me though growing up in Utah it seems like there is always some new scheme-of-the-week people try to push onto me. It always seems like the same people too, especially my sister. She probably gets the spiel from someone in her ward, then thinks it will make her rich quick and tries to hustle it onto all friends and family. Wonder if there is a pattern or really gullible people involved in these.
My dad has fallen into a couple of MLM scams, Amway and Herbalife. He never got in TOO deep, but it makes me so sad and so angry that he got involved at all. It preyed upon him.
With Amway, he was at an extremely vulnerable time. His 6-year-old business had failed and my family was living off my mother's income. He was desperate to contribute, so he did Amway. He stopped it when he was able to find a really good, full time job.
The second time, with Herbalife, it was again when he was vulnerable. In this case it was after he had retired from his job. The family was on a single income and he was desperate to help, but wasn't well enough for the stress of a full time job. So, he got lured into Herbalife.
They do prey on the greedy and naive, but also people who are so desperate to keep their heads above water they'll try anything. I really hope he never falls for another MLM.
Everyone, it's been a while. You might remember that some time ago I posted about NeoTech/Nouveau Tech/NeoThink Society. Well, around Christmas I splurged on myself and bought four of their books (used) on Amazon. I read a little of each book (as much as I could tolerate) with the intention of posting here about them. Three of them are at the office (for co-workers' perusal during downtime), and I'm out sick today. In front of me, however, is a copy of God-Man: Our Final Evolution. A combination of Objectivism, bicameralism, and (to me) seemingly unlimited laziness and optimism, God-Man is at once boring and insane. I'll come clean right now and say that, while I've enjoyed some of Ayn Rand's books in the past, I don't pretend to support her ideology. Similarly, bicameralism doesn't hold much water with me. I think even those who agree with one or both of these things will see how skewed these ideas are when taken up by "Frank R. Wallace" and his successor, "Mark Hamilton" (Wallace Ward and Wallace H. Ward, respectively).
God-Man's premise is that normal human beings can change, as individuals, into "God-Man," an ultraconscious being capable of amazing feats. This is based on the comparison between "bicameral man" (who had no self-consciousness) and current-day man, who retains some bicameral traits, such as relying on higher authority such as religion or government. The idea is that one day all of us can completely overcome the "unconscious" that's holding us back and be fully-"integrated" and "honest" beings. And so on. The cover indicates that this is the latest in a chain of great thinkers:
From the foreword:
Mark Hamilton said:
Foreword
by The Academy of Science Research Arm of Neo-Tech Publishing Co.
Three thousand years ago, man advanced from the bicameral "animal" mentality to human consciousness. Soon, we will advance again, from human consciousness to the new Neothink mentality. We now know exactly what we will become: God-Man — the highest life form on Earth, the final evolution of man.
[...]
Within days, you will rise into the higher consciousness of God-Man. ...The term "higher consciousness" is used throughout this book not in the context often seen in New Age literature. "Higher consciousness" describes how God-Man appears to us...
Higher aims of this practice will net the practitioner power: "you not only will predict the future, but will control the future in all areas of your life...from wealth to sex." Fair enough, if not as lofty as what I imagine "God-Man" to be.
The first section of the book denounces, among things such as "neocheating" and altruism, mysticism. This is a reasonable thing to reproach; it's been responsible for numerous frauds, for things like my company's sales team worshipping Vince Lombardi, and (in part) for the actions and success of the NSDAP, better known as the Nazis. I can't disagree here. Hamilton says that "mysticism mostly involves emotions and imaginations misused in forming mind-created 'realities'." (p. 41).
You can probably already see where I'm going: God-Man subverts its own message at every turn, either deliberately or blindly. For one, it makes unverifiable statements, such as "After 2001, you and I will experience exhilarating changes, as described within these pages." (p. viii) I take issue with the arbitrary choice of the year 2001, one I find mystical on its own. This is far from the last time he singles out 2001 as an arbitrary turning point, just like every other millenial mystic in the late 90s and throughout the 20th century. "After 2001, moreover," says "Wallace's Journal," "with the spread of Neo-Tech and collapse of mysticism, the next evolutionary jump of man will occur." (p. 29).
There are also assertions such as the one I pointed out in my first post, namely a complete alternative history if we had only accepted Aristotle into our hearts. I dislike Plato (what little I've tolerated) and indeed prefer Aristotle. Let's look at some of the nonmystical claims based on this different history.
Here's the timeline (pp. 32-33).
350 B.C. Aristotle 384 B.C.-322 B.C. Plato's philosophy identified as mystical and forever dismissed as dishonest, destructive. 200 B.C. America discovered. 100 B.C. Free-enterprise capitalism established around the world. Free marketers flourishing. All forms of mysticism and neocheating identified, discredited, and rejected. All government taxation and nonprofit spending programs abolished. All forms of initiatory force are morally condemned. Wars become obsolete and vanish. Arts, sciences, technology boom in totally free markets. Dynamic competition and value production rule. Romantic love flourishes, 0 B.C. All traces of mysticism, altruism, and collectivism are gone. Poverty essentially eliminated. The individual is the supreme value. Jesus builds the highest skyscraper in Asia Minor. Trains and steamships are major forms of transportation. 20 A.D. Electrical power developed, camera developed. 40 A.D. Internal-combustion engine developed. 50 A.D. Cars in mass production. Airplane developed. 60 A.D. Commercial airlines flourishing. Computer developed. 65 A.D. Crime and fraud become unprofitable, obsolete, and essentially eliminated by computerized ostracism. 70 A.D. Nuclear power developed. Nuclear weapons never conceived. 80 A.D. Man on the moon. Internet developed. 90 A.D. Cancer and most other diseases eliminated. 100 A.D. Man on Mars and heading for other planets. 110 A.D. Need for sleep eliminated. 120 A.D. Youth-perpetuating biological immortality developed. 140 A.D. Prosperity and happiness of conscious beings are universal. 200 A.D. Worldwide, commercial, biological immortality achieved. All diseases and aging eliminated. Man colonizing, mining, and commercializing the moon, asteroids, and Mars. Commercial shuttle flights, passenger, and freight, to space-station colonies. ...Achive access to the gravity-coded, interstellar universal computer. 1200 A.D. Energy and technology advanced to where sufficient energy can be generated for traveling to other earth-like planets in outer space. Science, knowledge, and fulfillment advanced to the point at which no economic or scientific incentive exists for directly communicating with or travelling to the billions of other, outer-space civilizations. 2000 A.D. Immortial conscious beings in a Neo-Tech, free-enterprise society are master of all known nature. People and goods are transported at the speed of light via electronic transfer. Most goods manufactured via nanotechnology with the electronic control of atoms and molecules. New knowledge is expanding at near the speed of light.
There is nothing to back these claims up. If you read them, you'll see how far-fetched and in places contradictory these assertions are. I won't go into too much detail, but examples such as the threefold elimination of mysticism, etc.; or the unfounded postulation that a "universal computer" exists; or the idea that we will somehow be able to ignore "billions" of other civilizations without a problem. This is the most blatant specific example of mysticism I've come across so far in this book, but the contradictions and overall helpless, mystical tone never quite leave.
Readers of Ayn Rand are probably familiar with things like values, value producing, and integration, if not in those exact words. With a section titled "uprooting laziness" and stating that "neocheaters are the mean, the guilty, the malefactors of society. And the value producers are the compassionate, the innocent, the benefactors of society" (p. 43), you expect that God-Man and his visionaries would envision a society where everyone does his share, works hard, and reaps benefits according to his effort and ability.
Let's look at the "Six Visions" or "Six Ultimate Gifts" as introduced in Chapter Two: Our Neo-Tech World.
The Six Ultimate Gifts said:
The Six Visions to follow show us life in the new mentality, specifically the Six Ultimate Gifts in the Neo-Tech World enjoyed by tomorrow's multitudes, gifts that I now personally enjoy, too...as you can, too, such as: 1 being surrounded by geniuses who make your every wish come true (First Ultimate Gift) 2 becoming a millionaire without lifting a finger (Second Ultimate Gift) 3 living well past 100 with extraordinary health and happiness (Third Ultimate Gift) 4 enjoying the exciting career of your dreams (Fourth Ultimate Gift) 5 making love to the person of your dreams (Fifth Ultimate Gift) 5a becoming slim and sexy with a more satisfying diet than those who are chubby (subset of Fifth Ultimate Gift) 6 rising with superior intelligence using 21st-century Neothink (Sixth Ultimate Gift)
After my Six Visions of the Six Ultimate Gifts, I automatically went through a personal renaissance that delivered five of the Six Ultimate Gifts to me, today.
These six gifts (or seven, with the odd addition of 5a to the list) are explained in the chapters that follow. As you can see, what we actually have is a philosophy that makes unfounded promises, based on no factual evidence, that we will become godlike, will be catered to by others (geniuses), will not have to work to become rich, and will be able to eat like "chubby" people and still be sexy. These promises, I believe, are intended to blitz the reader, put stars in his eyes, and blank his mind for the onslaught of literature he is expected to order, or read, after this.
I won't elaborate much further (I haven't read the whole thing), but as the cover indicates, packed with this book is another, The Neo-Tech Discovery. This is where the real pyramid scheme begins. I can go into this "supplement," but the following diagram from God-Man, which illustrates nothing technological, immortal, or godlike, should be evidence of what's going on when you switch to Neothink.
Definitely not the career of my dreams.
I'll read and write more about this if anyone's interested. There's a lot more going on here—for example, that the original writer/founder (now deceased) and "Mark Hamilton" are father and son, even though the introduction speaks of Hamilton as a totally unrelated party. If you look up the complicated history of this company, you'll come across a lot that sets off the "scam" and "pyramid scheme" alarm bells.
I've always been able to sniff these out and enjoy seeing them called out. I'm sorry to those whom have been preyed upon. When I can figure how to change enough details I will have to type up the story of someone I'm friends with who's trying to take a company from a legit corp and turn into this. Not out of greed, but because it'll save money and help people. Frankly, I don't think any of the MLMs have done this with goodness in their hearts as he is trying. I'm hoping the rest of the board can talk him out of it.
I do think while MLMs are just a center for scam that's another group that gets suckered in the good hearts, hey I can make some money we all want that, I can help my friends and loved ones make some too. The minorty sure but they are out there and those are the ones I feel worst for.
One thing I'd just like to throw out to those new and younger, there are some legit mentor programs out there, none of the cult esque stuff will ever happen but there are some awful mentor programs that are about the same. A corp partner of mine is in commerical real estate and a lot can come off kinda MLMish but do your home work some of them just have pretty campy adverts but legit info.
Mary Kay preys on vulnerable women. Those recently out of rough divorces, older women who have never worked before, young women fresh into the workforce, they are terrible fucking people who would (and have) ripped off cancer patients for a profit.
As with all things for the world weary skeptic you should check out James Randi, he deals with MLM along with all the psychic and paranormal bullshit and is an incredibly learned man.
Came into the thread just to post this link and saw it was already posted. A group of friends of mine exploded in drama about a decade or so ago when one of them, who had done Mary Kay for a long time, successfully recruited a few of the others into it. They unsurprisingly became members of the 99% who lose money doing Mary Kay - not money they could afford. They got pissed at Recruiting Friend. It then came out that Recruiting Friend had run out of actual marks to drag into the Mary Kay shitshow and was now hitting up those close to her - whom she knew were struggling for money - to meet her targets. Shit hit fan. It was just such a cold thing to do to friends (and some of her family, too) but the system puts people under intolerable pressure to recruit.
My aunt has done Mary Kay for a long time, I get a bunch of it at Christmas which I always look forward to. But she doesn't do it for a profit, just to get the discount on the makeup. She sells it to all her friends at the discount too.
There's a really good (but long) Amway tale somewhere, but I can't for the life of me find it. It's by a guy who got roped into Amway for awhile by a couple, called Jim and Joan, or something. His first tip that something was "off" with Amway was when he went into the couple's bathroom and it was just full of knockoff Amway shit. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Ok, I have a few free minutes and thought of a way to vaugely enough word things to not give any name drops or in the situtation because as I want to state now, this is a case of naivity not greed.
I have a family friend who is my parents age, good person did very well for themselves well educated hard worker really came from nothing just a true story of a good hard working person who made it. He's overly trusting and been burnt a few times but lives by the fact more times it's worked out and it's just stuff and hasn't ruined his life .
Got into an MLM really shortly I helped warn him about the idea he jumped away barely any loss of time or funds. Fast foward a few years he got a buy out retirement offer pretty shortly after his last parent passed. So fiscally he's done and his kids are set too. Wants to keep doing hard work and doing good.
So he's asking around his contacts whos got a start up, he's been in charge of people but he also wants a buy in wants to be core part as in bigger companies even higher ups are just names and stock holders tend to own most. Wanted to do a botuqite kind of thing really big but never mega corp. Found a company that's running along and had a break through product, problem is going from 7 employees to 800+ they had no idea where to go. As if timing couldn't be better pile of cash in hand and looking for something to do they link up.
Now this company I'm not going to give details on for as said before. But it's been legit and niche for a while they have good products and priced fairly one just got some media exposure and some other things fell into place and ramping up needed to happen like yesterday. So my friend at the helm is trying to figure how do move it, he honestly is sold MLM is the way to go because done morally it could work, doesnt cost the company to do tv ads as your brand reps willl do it and you can help all the people who are out willing to work for you.
I've tried to explain no one does it legit for a reason and hoping his board will sort him on that because an MLM system could drag his company down but some people are quite set in their ways. I've known him 15+ years now and if he wanted to pull a scam i'd be in the circle enough to know. He really is set he could make the first real win win MLM. So I am not sure if it's pride based or what.
Disclaimer I am an investor in this company and have made my shares speak.
Double disclaimer, my writing is awful and fact i disclaimed I have a personal as well as fiscal stake is retarded but I'll leave that for you to laugh at me.
I had a friend who did Kirby vacuums for a really short amount of time. I didn't know anything about it and he called me up, not to sell one but to ask if he could demonstrate the vacuum to my parents "just to practice for his job" and I thought that sounded like an okay idea. Anyway he ended up selling my parents this fucking godawful expensive vacuum cleaner, when he should have known they can't afford stuff like that. I was so pissed.
There's so much fucking delusion going on right now that it's fantastic. It's like watching creationist morons trying and failing hard to prove that evolution is a lie in the face of mountains of evidence.
Oopsie daisy, looks like BK Boreyko was busted again. First time (that I know of) it was because he falsely claimed that his snake oil could cure ADHD or some shit and now this! I wonder what he's going to change his name to this time. He should flee to Nigeria, change his name to Benson K. Okonodebebe, and set up shop over there.
Dude in this video strikes me as a former crackhead/meth druggie who bought into this delusion because . I love how it's never the person defending the scam who is making "five figure sums every month" or earns millions doing this, but they always "know a guy who does."
Dude in this video strikes me as a former crackhead/meth druggie who bought into this delusion because . I love how it's never the person defending the scam who is making "five figure sums every month" or earn millions doing this, but they always "know a guy who does."
in the situtation because as I want to state now, this is a case of naivity not greed.
. I love how it's never the person defending the scam who is making "five figure sums every month" or earns millions doing this, but they always "know a guy who does."