Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Dang dirty Pidgeons!]

A fundamental gnostic belief is that the soul of the world is female and that the ideal state of being is a joining of the male and female essence. The demiurge, the self-appointed creator of the physical world, emerged from Sophia, to whom gnostics will look for a form of salvation from the physical prison they are trapped within. They believe that their true form is an intellectual and spiritual one, that their bodies are a prison designed to torment them, and that their salvation comes by embracing that feminine existence.

Yes, I also vaguely remember that proto feminist seeming angle, but what strikes me as weird about the whole castration and degradation thing:
Wouldn't joining "animus" and "anima", as Jung lifted it, basically bar them from ruining the very equipment that makes a meaningful, "spiritual" bonding of, say, a Man and a Women even possible?
It seems like further degrading and abusing your limited "flesh-prison" would remove one farther from the ideal... These specific gnostics seem to have lost their own thread. It also hammers home that their misogyny was so deep seated, they didn't even understand that "no-penis" =/= "more like whammen" at all.

Wasn't there this crazy orthodox (?) Russian sect in the 19th century, which did mutilations on men AND women? Do they have something to do with Gnosticism specifically or are they just another aberration of the general "salvation through suffering and joylessness" thing christian cults often fall into anyhow?

 

[teriyakiburns]

Wouldn't joining "animus" and "anima", as Jung lifted it, basically bar them from ruining the very equipment that makes a meaningful, "spiritual" bonding of, say, a Man and a Women even possible?

They view the physical flesh, and indeed the entire physical realm, as inherently degraded and irredeemable and that a person's true, spiritual form is trapped within it. You can categorise the subsequent reaction to that into two broad branches: one that scourges and punishes the flesh as a means to separate it from the spiritual, and one that indulges every want of the flesh, in the belief that it doesn't matter how sinful the flesh is, because the spirit will be pure once it escapes. There's crossover between these beliefs, and of course there's a lot of nuance and difference within them as well, as each sect attempted to find a working structure.

Now I'm getting the urge to go dig through all my old theological study texts and see how much I'm getting wrong. It's been a hot minute.

Wasn't there this crazy orthodox (?) Russian sect in the 19th century, which did mutilations on men AND women?

Skoptsy, is it? I don't know if they count as gnostic. They certainly had a lot of gnostic-adjacent beliefs, but gnosticism didn't really survive well in the eastern tradition. I assume they were just your regular flagellants who took it to an extreme.

 

[Dang dirty Pidgeons!]

They view the physical flesh, and indeed the entire physical realm, as inherently degraded and irredeemable and that a person's true, spiritual form is trapped within it.

So, if one were to be cheeky, you could accuse them of building a framework to legitimize and christianify the later roman and byzantine sex and body-mod practices from the get go.
It is very striking that Gnosticism came second to these already preexisting practices of sodomy and and castration... but then, I am kinda disappointed, because some of it seems "cool" at first glance.

And yes, skoptsy was the name. And I just saw (thanks, wikipedia!) that they did almost the EXACT same thing, which is now happening to young girls, who want to become men: breast amputation and FGM. Holy hell... with the 19th century russia backdrop, this actually IS more surprising than the former, I don't think there was a pre-existing tradition of doing these kinds of mutilations - even in a different context - at all. So, I would think this may be even more interesting than Gnosticism in the context of how sexual mutilation seems to sporadically spawn from christian tradition time and time again and why.

 

[Paper Machete]

the ideal state of being is a joining of the male and female essence.

Weird how they go on about that. It mirrors trannies trying to "become the girl they want" but it also is a sort of perversion of the idea of men and women balancing each other. In other contexts, like Christianity it's done through joining in marriage, and to a lesser extent just socializing and being aware of each other. It really says something a lot of these different culty weirdos believe the singular person should get to a state where they embody "everything" where as a more healthy mindset would see that as having different types of people in your circles and communities (and also that there are some things you shouldn't do and try to be for a variety of reasons).

I fucking hate cults man.

 

[Dang dirty Pidgeons!]

Weird how they go on about that. It mirrors trannies trying to "become the girl they want" but it also is a sort of perversion of the idea of men and women balancing each other.

Yeah, that specifically seems to be gnostic-exclusive, compared to the russian skoptsy, the difference which intrigued my as @teriyakiburns first mentioned there having been a whole ritual tradition around becoming "moar liek whammens" throught becoming maximally ghey - them going all yin, without yang. With the run of the mill flagellants, it's always just denial of the flesh across the board, that's why the skoptsy did it to both women and men, I would suspect. But the gnostics, if this turns out to be verifiable, just went full gender wawaah. Crazy.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Skoptsy

Were not Orthodox flagellants gone wild, they were a cult that was part of the folk protestants. Pretty akin to the radical reformation in the West, where you got other oddball apocalyptic sects all the way down to the Shakers and JWs.

 

[GloriousScarf]

Sadly I cannot stop coming to this thread. I feel like a blindfold has been removed from my eyes. I must keep reading - it is like autism-fueled crack.

Come and take the next step on your journey. Learn the truth about the 'life saving care' they keep pushing for with your tax money.

 

[TismFarmer]

Were not Orthodox flagellants gone wild, they were a cult that was part of the folk protestants. Pretty akin to the radical reformation in the West, where you got other oddball apocalyptic sects all the way down to the Shakers and JWs.

And the fact that they(skopsky) are seen by modern orthodox Russians as blasphemous heretics and disgusting deviants who abducted children/teenagers and brainwashed and mutilated them, is a large part of why Tansgender ideology will never ever be accepted in Russia.

 

[Scritti Politti]

Gnosticism was an attempt at forming an internally consistent syncresis between the extant religious culture of the Mediterranean and the new arrival and much of its ideological structure drew on those mystery religions. The idea that salvation was found by the learning of esoteric knowledge is a large part of both.

Gnosticism was never a coherent, internally consistent faith.

IMO, the main parallel between Gnosticism and trans lies less in the appeal of the syzygy than the idea of a false reality.

In certain strands of Gnosticism (particularly Sethianism), this was the physical world. In terms of trans, this false reality is the gender binary. Gnostics believed the limitations of the debased material world could only be overcome by understanding the Origins of the World, the Reality of the Rulers. These consisted of esoteric texts considering the nature of this reality passed to and fro among small communities spread throughout the Roman Empire. A few in Syria-Palestine, a few in Egypt, and so on.

However, trans believe the gender binary can only be overcome by understanding the origins of the gender binary and how (like the Gnostic conception of the material world) it is merely a corrupt construct. But the limitations of the Sethians etc. in re: creation and transmission of scripture do not apply. They can promulgate their heresy on a global scale.

I should note that the parallels in re: false reality could also apply to a number of other postmodern social theories, particularly Critical Whiteness Studies.

 

[Dang dirty Pidgeons!]

And the fact that they(skopsky) are seen by modern orthodox Russians as blasphemous heretics and disgusting deviants who abducted children/teenagers and brainwashed and mutilated them, is a large part of why Tansgender ideology will never ever be accepted in Russia.

Bruh...
Should I read the wiki article or do you have a something else? This can't be true... that'd be too crazy (and sickening).

 

[Chappell's Lost Earring]

It has been almost a week since my first post, and I feel like a different person now. I am thankful I am seeing more clearly, but I am having to reassess many different parts of my life. Still overall it feels like a veil has been lifted, and I think this is due to the fact that I am no longer fighting my natural response to accepting perverted men in women's spaces. I can acknowledge to myself it is wrong, and since my brain is not working overtime gaslighting itself, it is like I can process things clearly. No wonder we are all a little bit more retarded these days.

I have several library books checked out at the moment. At the time of my post, I was in the middle of reading one called Cuckoo, which has multiple perspectives and one is a trans character. I don't know how well a female author is going to be able to write a TiM character, but she uses she/her pronouns and is writing like the fictional troon is just a woman with a dick she has to tuck. I've decided I can't continue reading.

Two other books also have trans or nonbinary characters. Sadly, I did not know prior to checking these books out, because the synopsis says nothing about this. It reads like a normal synposis. It wasn't until I went on Goodreads to read the reviews that someone pointed these things out. I just can't support or read this media anymore. I'm going to have to read the reviews more closely from now on. I'm just perturbed that it is not labelled clearly. I guess the plus side is people are so happy to celebrate something contains trans characters, they usually point it out like retards the first chance they get.

What I am interested in reading is non-fictional books from actual trans people. I am really curious what a TiM has to say, to see how they think, and to see if it confirms or denies any of the biases I have, especially now that I have been armed with new perspectives from the posts here. I suppose I could just go lurk reddit, but I'll see what I can find in printed media.

Spoiler: Here are the 3 books mentioned

If you read the synopsis of each, you will see there is no mention of any of this.
Cuckoo - one of the characters is a troon
All The Hearts You Eat - the character that is discovered dead is trans
They Thought They Buried Us - the main character uses they/them pronouns

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

I have several library books checked out at the moment. At the time of my post, I was in the middle of reading one called Cuckoo

Hang on, not Cuckoo by Gretchen Felker-Martin?

Cuckoo - one of the characters is a troon

Oh boy. Not familiar with this author or 'her' other work, I take it?

Have I got news for you.

I don't know how well a female author is going to be able to write a TiM character

I'd take that book right back to the library if I were you.

Only I think I might have something more interesting for you to read.

 

[Chappell's Lost Earring]

Holy shit lmao

That's insane. I have to stop being a dumb fuck and look into authors more, but I am not going to be hard on myself though, because just last Friday, I was on the troon bandwagon like everyone else. I never even realized the author was trans.

I'd take that book right back to the library if I were you.

Only I think I might have something more interesting for you to read.

Thank you for giving me even more Kiwi threads add to my already super long reading list. Cuckoo and Manhunt are recommended by many book youtubers and tiktokers so I am looking forward to getting the real details. I always thought the cover of Manhunt was unnecessarily disgusting. Why does it have to look like testicles?

 

[caffeinated Chihuahua]

just last Friday, I was on the troon bandwagon like everyone else

It's not written by a troon, but inauthentic selves is a worthwhile read if you just peaked imo. It's an investigative journalism article, not a book, so it shouldn't take too long to read, very information-dense though.

 

[Lain The Tranny Beater]

I always thought the cover of Manhunt was unnecessarily disgusting. Why does it have to look like testicles?

The MCs are hunting rabid men to make a cure for themselves so they don’t turn into them. I was interested in the cover until I found out the MCs a troons written by a troon. It some dystopian weird shit.
All I see is another book a man wrote that shoves their weird sexual fantasies into horror. No one can have a good horror without some dude getting weird and sexual

 

[GluttonousManSlob]

I always thought the cover of Manhunt was unnecessarily disgusting. Why does it have to look like testicles?

We have a thread about this book too, if you want to spare yourself the pain of actually reading it.

 

[Baraadmirer]

Why does it have to look like testicles?

Others have already linked to the Manhunt thread, but in short, estrogen is stored in the balls, and consuming it keeps you from going feral (for the trans ladies only, of course).

 

[Chappell's Lost Earring]

The MCs are hunting rabid men to make a cure for themselves so they don’t turn into them. I was interested in the cover until I found out the MCs a troons written by a troon. It some dystopian weird shit.
All I see is another book a man wrote that shoves their weird sexual fantasies into horror. No one can have a good horror without some dude getting weird and sexual

It sounds awful, and I am not into gory media. Cuckoo sounded interesting to me because it was a horror set in a conversion camp. Knowing now some of the truth about the author, and how it is just a gore fetish, hard pass on them both.

---

In other news: I got the chance to ask a real life friend about what happened to me in the locker room. He said some of the exact same things you guys did, and he has zero interest or investment in the trans debate. Some sanity, at last.

 

[Super Mario Brothers]

What I am interested in reading is non-fictional books from actual trans people. I am really curious what a TiM has to say, to see how they think, and to see if it confirms or denies any of the biases I have, especially now that I have been armed with new perspectives from the posts here. I suppose I could just go lurk reddit, but I'll see what I can find in printed media.

Not literature per say, but I could have sworn there was a megathread for troon comics + art, but I can't find it atm. There will be some art or ramblings scattered across different cow threads.

Then there's the Pooner Zoo, especially among the first few pages, but that's specifically TIFS.

Spoiler

Even if you find one trans book or comic, they basically all have the same plot. MC is some weird nerdy or troubled man, he doesn't know what's wrong with him and VOILA he's actually a beautiful anime waifu trans wahman. He'll usually have conservative parents or other authority figure that will play some some type of villain role and they will be the enemy, but they are in the wrong and he is always in the right because he can never have made any wrong decisions never ever. Same thing flipped for pooners.

 

[TismFarmer]

Bruh...
Should I read the wiki article or do you have a something else? This can't be true... that'd be too crazy (and sickening).

I haven't read the Wiki article. I don't use Wiki

Unfortunately it was around 15-20 years ago (maybe longer)that I studied the Skoptsy.and theres been a couple of strokes since then

I  think there was a decent amount about them in a book called 'Holy Russia', which follows the history of Orthodox Christianity in Russia from around 900AD.

Although a source that I found  very believable was an account by a woman who was speaking on a completely different subject.

In an aside she made she spoke about how, one day when she was barely into her teens(early 1900's), the children of the village were told to stay out of the forest for a little while because the Skoptsy were around and they didnt want to lose any of the children.

That evening, they found her 10 year old brother, Pyotr, had sneaked into the forest to spy on the Skoptsy and was now missing.

Their father and 3 other men from their village went on an expedition searching for these Skoptsy (who had immediately left the area) and finally found them about a month later.

They killed the Skoptsy and carried Pyotr home. Minus his penis and balls. He hung himself a few months later. (Just before his 11th birthday)

The way she was speaking about this, it was obvious that that was the reality for her and the people she lived with.

They knew the Skoptsy were dangerous, blasphemous heretics who would mutilate women and children if they could convince them to go with them or, most commonly with children, simply abduct them.

It wasn't  common, she remembered them coming near the village, not just because of what happened to Pyotr, but also because she said it was frightening but exciting to have them near, and nothing interesting ever happened in her village.

She said she regretted her words that evening when her brother was missing and has prayed for forgiveness for him every day since his death.

I guess in that way they were very much like modern Trannys. Can't (or won't) breed any other way except for stealing other people's children.

In the old days they literally stole them, nowadays they simply brainwash them.

And Pidgeon? You're 100% correct.
The only reason I remember this story so clearly is because it's just so insane and horrifying.