Raya and the last dragon - A half decent trailer for most likely a mediocre film that will still get a billion dollars

Are we ever getting a cartoon with occidental, not Barney-styled, talking, sapient and not catlike dragon, I wonder. It is like magical triangle, only "pick three of five" for most of the part.
At the top of my head, Smaug from the Rankin Bass film might qualify, The Dragon Prince sports a wide variety of dragons, Wakfu and the Dofus movies, I think the Wyverns from The Black Cauldron, that shitty Dragon Flyz cartoon that was made to sell the boy version of Sky Dancer toys, and I guess Maleficent in the third act of Sleeping Beauty. I’m sure there’s more, but I can’t think of any at the moment.
Wouldn't surprise me if that was somewhat tied into Princess Mononoke, maybe they had some unused reference stuff for facial animation of their divine wolves lying around?

Also, never mind me, best dragon design coming through:
View attachment 1901381
Grisu. The dragon that wants to become a firefighter when he's grown up. Now that's just an adorable design with a funny premise.
If I recall correctly, the animation for Haku‘s dragon form was made from all new references - Miyazaki even dragged the entire animation team out on a field trip to a local animal shelter/vet because he was appalled to hear some of his animators had never seen a dog up close before.

I think he went with a dog as reference for the face because dogs have an ideal long snout look without needing to get ahold of a wild animal or looking to reptile. And Eastern dragons have always been depicted as being an amalgamation of multiple animals since their inception (antlers of a deer, talons of an eagle, body of a snake, etc.), so it makes sense to do the same for the head.

I think that’s mostly why Sisu looks so bad: she’s just a 3D version of one of the dragons from My Little Pony but with an elongated mid-section with no regard for her other proportions. Combine that with the Good Dinosaur-esque disconnect between the highly detailed texture works & attempts at realistic backgrounds/lighting clashing with the cartoony proportions of the models (especially when it comes to the faces) and you got a design that doesn’t even look like it belongs in same animated world, much less a believable animal.
 
Disney collabs with Studio Ghibli quite frequently and you think they'd have taken some notes.

Disney?! Learning lessons from another animation studio?! Don't be fucking ridiculous. The reason they suck so hard right now is because they refuse to learn from the other guys (especially worldwide), and when they DO try to copy someone else the results end up being like.....this:
disney_chicken_little_amazing_photo.jpg

Hell, they refuse to learn from their own successes. When Lilo and Stitch, a movie made with pretty much no executive overhead, went on to become their only movie from that period (the early 2000s) to make a profit, what do you think their major takeaway from that was? Maybe let more of their animators do auteur projects and see where that goes? Maybe have Chris Sanders and Dean Deblois keep a close eye on any L&S-related projects going forward so that it doesn't lose the charm that the original movie had? No.
415660ecaa0253a29eeb0ab5e45c1b0d.jpg

They instead turned L&S into a fucking Pokemon ripoff, because Pokemon was the big cash cow at the time, and John Lasseter fired Chris Sanders because "WAAAAAH YOU'RE NOT MAKING AMERICAN DOG THE WAY I WANT IT WAAAAAAH". Guess what Chris and Dean ended up doing at Dreamworks?

how-to-train-your-dragon-52e51b103a03e.jpg

Oh, only one of the most acclaimed animated movies of the 2010s. DISNEY. DOESN'T. LEARN.
Wouldn't surprise me if that was somewhat tied into Princess Mononoke, maybe they had some unused reference stuff for facial animation of their divine wolves lying around?

Also, never mind me, best dragon design coming through:
View attachment 1901381
Grisu. The dragon that wants to become a firefighter when he's grown up. Now that's just an adorable design with a funny premise.
I legit awwww'd at little Grisu. I'm gonna go look for his series now. Thanks for the recommendation!
 
Apologies for the doubleposting but this came into my mind as I was rewatching the trailer. As they cut to the different tribes, I couldn't help but think of how boring they all look.

Tumblr_l_1082264025800219.png

See, as someone who loves costuming and traditional fashion, I must admit that Southeast Asia is probably one of my favorite regions when it comes to traditional dress. They use tons of bright colors and wild patterns and there is gold and jewels literally everywhere. It's like their ancestors were afraid of blank space, and I fucking love it. It's gorgeous.

Tumblr_l_1082268787305894.png


Tumblr_l_1082271739055684.png


Tumblr_l_1082274749743548.jpg


Tumblr_l_1082281187711254.png


Tumblr_l_1082281120446254.jpg
4eb17d36bbd965af56c96d1dbba0b314.png
c76a7b3522c89259e323d16c8efbc109.png
Traditional-Clothing-for-Women-Southeast-Asian-Clothes-High-Quality-Bronzing-Ahom-Shan-Dai-Cus...png

Look! Beautiful! Pleasing to the eye! And definitely not whatever boring shit the people in Raya are wearing is. I get that these are on the more formal end of clothing, but the scene that that picture above is from looks to be like an official meeting between the representatives of the different tribes, which seems like it would be the perfect occasion to wear fancy shit. They don't even have to make the clothes as hyper detailed and crazy as the real deal, but just adding some color and patterns and gold would make all the difference.

Also, please get rid of the side shaved danger hair on the leader of the White Tribe (I think her dad called them Fang Tribe?) and her kid. It just looks bad.
 
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Apologies for the doubleposting but this came into my mind as I was rewatching the trailer. As they cut to the different tribes, I couldn't help but think of how boring they all look.

Tumblr_l_1082264025800219.png

See, as someone who loves costuming and traditional fashion, I must admit that Southeast Asia is probably one of my favorite regions when it comes to traditional dress. They use tons of bright colors and wild patterns and there is gold and jewels literally everywhere. It's like their ancestors were afraid of blank space, and I fucking love it. It's gorgeous.

Tumblr_l_1082268787305894.png

Tumblr_l_1082271739055684.png

Tumblr_l_1082274749743548.png

Tumblr_l_1082281187711254.png

Tumblr_l_1082281120446254.png

4eb17d36bbd965af56c96d1dbba0b314.jpg

c76a7b3522c89259e323d16c8efbc109.jpg

Traditional-Clothing-for-Women-Southeast-Asian-Clothes-High-Quality-Bronzing-Ahom-Shan-Dai-Custuome-Top-Skirt.jpg

Look! Beautiful! Pleasing to the eye! And definitely not whatever boring shit the people in Raya are wearing is. I get that these are probably on the more formal end of clothing, but the scene that that picture above is from looks to be like an official meeting between the representative of the different tribes, which seems like it would be the perfect occasion to wear formal clothing. They don't even have to make the clothes as hyper detailed and crazy as the real deal, but just adding some color and patterns and gold would make all the difference.

Also, please get rid of the side shaved danger hair on the leader of the White Tribe (I think her dad called them Fang Tribe?) and her kid. It just looks bad.
The attachments are doing that thing again where you can only see them when you quotepost.
Anyway I completely agree with you. It's so weird to see people bitching about things like "tokenism" but then turn around and be totally ok with this boring bland shit.
 
The attachments are doing that thing again where you can only see them when you quotepost.
Anyway I completely agree with you. It's so weird to see people bitching about things like "tokenism" but then turn around and be totally ok with this boring bland shit.
Realized that as soon as I posted it and had to manually reupload every single picture via mobile, lol. Love this site.
And forreal! They say they want representation but then they settle for the most boring, bland, surface level shit. The bar is so low in terms of putting even a modicum of effort into depicting their cultures and still Disney doesn't manage to clear it. The cultures of Southeast Asia are so rich, beautiful, and interesting, and they deserve to not be represented so half-assedly.
 
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The attachments are doing that thing again where you can only see them when you quotepost.
Anyway I completely agree with you. It's so weird to see people bitching about things like "tokenism" but then turn around and be totally ok with this boring bland shit.
But of course! Can't run the risk of offending anybody in Current Year +6! What are you, a stereotyping Nazi?!
 

An international trailer dropped today. It explains the plot some more (narrated by Daniel Dae Kim, always a plus), which is nice, but it doesn't assuage my doubts that this movie is going to be anything other than mediocre at best.

Oooookay so the story is some purple smog turned people into stone and the tribes are pissy at each other (implying someone caused it or they ALL caused it and won't admit it, look at that scene where they dropped the dragon stone) and a dragon has to fix their fuckup but it's sadly a fuckup too...... This sounds flawed yet stupid. And I don't care enough right now to know how to fix it.

The attachments are doing that thing again where you can only see them when you quotepost.
Anyway I completely agree with you. It's so weird to see people bitching about things like "tokenism" but then turn around and be totally ok with this boring bland shit.

Are you on mobile? I can see them on desktop fine.

It makes perfect sense. You know the phrase "The only winning move is not to play"? The same goes for those who've played long enough they don't have to play as hard anymore and still win. Seniority is a power most strive to earn but many will never obtain (because they're unskilled lazy shits).

Or it's because the last film I can remember they did expensive on-site research for was Brave and look what a floppy fucking mess that turned out to be. 🚬
 
Oooookay so the story is some purple smog turned people into stone and the tribes are pissy at each other (implying someone caused it or they ALL caused it and won't admit it, look at that scene where they dropped the dragon stone) and a dragon has to fix their fuckup but it's sadly a fuckup too...... This sounds flawed yet stupid. And I don't care enough right now to know how to fix it.
So they ripped off the premise of Dr. Stone?
 
The trailer made me want to like this film. It's got that 'early 2000s Disney adventure' feel--think Atlantis and Treasure Planet (or 2000 AD if you wanna go outside Disney)--with an exotic setting and just the faintest hint of teen-appropriate action. If it were any other studio directing it, I might give it a shot.

But it's Disney, so fuck that. Tell me how it ends up being a Brave reskin or whatever.
 
Apologies for the doubleposting but this came into my mind as I was rewatching the trailer. As they cut to the different tribes, I couldn't help but think of how boring they all look.

View attachment 1911466
See, as someone who loves costuming and traditional fashion, I must admit that Southeast Asia is probably one of my favorite regions when it comes to traditional dress. They use tons of bright colors and wild patterns and there is gold and jewels literally everywhere. It's like their ancestors were afraid of blank space, and I fucking love it. It's gorgeous.


Look! Beautiful! Pleasing to the eye! And definitely not whatever boring shit the people in Raya are wearing is. I get that these are on the more formal end of clothing, but the scene that that picture above is from looks to be like an official meeting between the representatives of the different tribes, which seems like it would be the perfect occasion to wear fancy shit. They don't even have to make the clothes as hyper detailed and crazy as the real deal, but just adding some color and patterns and gold would make all the difference.

Also, please get rid of the side shaved danger hair on the leader of the White Tribe (I think her dad called them Fang Tribe?) and her kid. It just looks bad.
Besides laziness, I'm pretty sure the main reason for this travesty is that Disney thinks knows it's primary audience is too stupid to remember which tribe is which without a simple color coding, and textures and variety ruins that.
Another reason is that they want the movie to look mature, so any bright coloring got vetoed.
 
Or it's because the last film I can remember they did expensive on-site research for was Brave and look what a floppy fucking mess that turned out to be. 🚬
To be fair I think Brave’s failure could be credited more to how the pre-production and production was riddled with upper management meddling and the project constantly changing hands more than anything else.

Apologies for the doubleposting but this came into my mind as I was rewatching the trailer. As they cut to the different tribes, I couldn't help but think of how boring they all look.

View attachment 1911466
See, as someone who loves costuming and traditional fashion, I must admit that Southeast Asia is probably one of my favorite regions when it comes to traditional dress. They use tons of bright colors and wild patterns and there is gold and jewels literally everywhere. It's like their ancestors were afraid of blank space, and I fucking love it. It's gorgeous.


Look! Beautiful! Pleasing to the eye! And definitely not whatever boring shit the people in Raya are wearing is. I get that these are on the more formal end of clothing, but the scene that that picture above is from looks to be like an official meeting between the representatives of the different tribes, which seems like it would be the perfect occasion to wear fancy shit. They don't even have to make the clothes as hyper detailed and crazy as the real deal, but just adding some color and patterns and gold would make all the difference.

Also, please get rid of the side shaved danger hair on the leader of the White Tribe (I think her dad called them Fang Tribe?) and her kid. It just looks bad.
What’s frustrating is that if there’s one thing 3D has going for it over 2D, it’s that they can replicated those complicated clothing textures far more easily. Those simpler designs make perfect sense if you’d intended a team animators to draw everything by hand, but here there’s no excuse.
 
Apologies for the doubleposting but this came into my mind as I was rewatching the trailer. As they cut to the different tribes, I couldn't help but think of how boring they all look.

View attachment 1911466
See, as someone who loves costuming and traditional fashion, I must admit that Southeast Asia is probably one of my favorite regions when it comes to traditional dress. They use tons of bright colors and wild patterns and there is gold and jewels literally everywhere. It's like their ancestors were afraid of blank space, and I fucking love it. It's gorgeous.


Look! Beautiful! Pleasing to the eye! And definitely not whatever boring shit the people in Raya are wearing is. I get that these are on the more formal end of clothing, but the scene that that picture above is from looks to be like an official meeting between the representatives of the different tribes, which seems like it would be the perfect occasion to wear fancy shit. They don't even have to make the clothes as hyper detailed and crazy as the real deal, but just adding some color and patterns and gold would make all the difference.

Also, please get rid of the side shaved danger hair on the leader of the White Tribe (I think her dad called them Fang Tribe?) and her kid. It just looks bad.
and
They say they want representation but then they settle for the most boring, bland, surface level shit. The bar is so low in terms of putting even a modicum of effort into depicting their cultures and still Disney doesn't manage to clear it. The cultures of Southeast Asia are so rich, beautiful, and interesting, and they deserve to not be represented so half-assedly.

Assuming that Disney isn't entirely braindead when it comes to Asian politics, this might be intentional.
In terms of clothes for the tribes, the easiest thing to do, would have been to simply make one tribe wear Chinese clothes, one wears Japanese clothes, one wears Korean clothes and so on... but I think that's actually what they wanted to avoid here. Maybe they are aware enough of Asian conflicts that they didn't want to use RL clothes, fearing it might lead to backlashs from said nations. And using one specific style might alienate all others. So they come up with this bland as fuck color-coded-for-your-convenience bullshit, by making it bland, they want people from every Asian nation to be able to identify with these tribes without pesky political shenanigans getting in the way.

I am still expecting the evil thing to turn out to be a stand-in for colonialism/European invaders.

I've also had another idea, I originally thought this movie would be a metaphor for a chinese unification under communism or something like that, but I might have been wrong. Within chinese official party line, china is already unified (which is why Taiwan is such a big deal), so this movie could -at best- be used to highlight a pre-communism era of conflict within china, but that isn't necessarily the case when you think on a bigger scale:
What if this movie isn't a metaphor for china and how it must unite under the CCP, what if it's actually a metaphor for Asia as a whole and how it needs to unite under china's guidance?

That main character chick's tribe would be the stand-in for china, whereas all the other tribes are stand-ins for other cultures and it is thanks to china that they get unified in their common cause to fight evil white people (or whatever) under the wise guidance of the Middle Kingdom. And wouldn't you know, the kingdom the MC is coming from is the "Heart Kingdom", situated in the middle of the map...
The pink and yellow-clothed tribes already sit roughly around where Japan and Korea sit in regards to china, the white tribe might be Myanmar and the chubby greenish tribe are... dunno... from Mongolia or something.

Just spitballing, after all, this is the company that though hiring a chubby vietnamese chick that makes out with an ugly black dude would appeal to the chinese market, so all bets are off.

Be that as it may: The trailers are meh. Not horrible, but meh through and through.
 
and


Assuming that Disney isn't entirely braindead when it comes to Asian politics, this might be intentional.
In terms of clothes for the tribes, the easiest thing to do, would have been to simply make one tribe wear Chinese clothes, one wears Japanese clothes, one wears Korean clothes and so on... but I think that's actually what they wanted to avoid here. Maybe they are aware enough of Asian conflicts that they didn't want to use RL clothes, fearing it might lead to backlashs from said nations. And using one specific style might alienate all others. So they come up with this bland as fuck color-coded-for-your-convenience bullshit, by making it bland, they want people from every Asian nation to be able to identify with these tribes without pesky political shenanigans getting in the way.

I am still expecting the evil thing to turn out to be a stand-in for colonialism/European invaders.

I've also had another idea, I originally thought this movie would be a metaphor for a chinese unification under communism or something like that, but I might have been wrong. Within chinese official party line, china is already unified (which is why Taiwan is such a big deal), so this movie could -at best- be used to highlight a pre-communism era of conflict within china, but that isn't necessarily the case when you think on a bigger scale:
What if this movie isn't a metaphor for china and how it must unite under the CCP, what if it's actually a metaphor for Asia as a whole and how it needs to unite under china's guidance?

That main character chick's tribe would be the stand-in for china, whereas all the other tribes are stand-ins for other cultures and it is thanks to china that they get unified in their common cause to fight evil white people (or whatever) under the wise guidance of the Middle Kingdom. And wouldn't you know, the kingdom the MC is coming from is the "Heart Kingdom", situated in the middle of the map...
The pink and yellow-clothed tribes already sit roughly around where Japan and Korea sit in regards to china, the white tribe might be Myanmar and the chubby greenish tribe are... dunno... from Mongolia or something.

Just spitballing, after all, this is the company that though hiring a chubby vietnamese chick that makes out with an ugly black dude would appeal to the chinese market, so all bets are off.

Be that as it may: The trailers are meh. Not horrible, but meh through and through.
.....You do realize that the cultures that Raya is inspired by aren't East Asian, right? It's inspired by Southeast Asia which is a completely different region from China, Japan, Korea, etc. and SE Asians (both those who live in America and especially those born and raised in the region) will get pissed if you try to imply otherwise. Southeast Asia is comprised of nations like Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Bali, the Philippines, you get the picture.

For as stupid and half-assed as Disney's been in the costuming department (and doubtlessly in many other departments, knowing them) there are some pretty dead giveaways to the fact that the movie takes inspiration from Southeast Asia. This is primarily in the architecture of different structures seen in the trailers, the forms of martial arts used by the characters, the landscape of the setting, and the fact that her weird little armadillo steed thing is literally named Tuk Tuk, which is a pretty widely used term down there that means "rickshaw," a very common vehicle in the region.

Just because something is Asian doesn't automatically make it Chinese. That's ironically a mentality that would make China extremely happy, and I wish people would break out of it more.
 
What’s frustrating is that if there’s one thing 3D has going for it over 2D, it’s that they can replicated those complicated clothing textures far more easily. Those simpler designs make perfect sense if you’d intended a team animators to draw everything by hand, but here there’s no excuse.
This hasn't even been a problem for 2D movies since CAPS was created. They made the Magic Carpet from Aladdin look quite nice thanks to CAPS, and were able to do other complex animations with other computer programs too. Hardcore traditionalists bitch and moan about modern techniques, but they allow for things that never would've been possible before.

Which is why it's so sad they couldn't come up with a decent dragon design. I don't think it'd be even good enough for My Little Pony, let alone Disney.
 
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