Red Dead 3/Red Dead Redemption 2 - IT'S HAPPENING.gif

[Bunny Tracks]

Alright, alright you make a good point. You didn't have to get so heated in your last post though.

Yeah, I'm sorry. It's just that this has already been explained so many times before I just lost my temper.

Listen, do I think RDR2 plays fast and loose with historical accuracy when it comes to race and gender relationships? Oh, absolutely. Do I think it occasionally dips into suspension-of-belief-breaking? Again, absolutely. Do I think Dutch, Arthur, and most of the gang being incredibly progressive for the time is weird? No, but only because it's acknowledged in-game that it is, and because there's good in-game explanations for why they are.

 

[Green Man]

One of my biggest issues with RDR2 Dutch is he does not at all act or feel like someone living in 1899. His views on Natives, blacks, gender all are anachronistic. The man was born in 1855 and has similar views to a liberal from the 2000s. I get it, it's a video game not everything has to be super historically accurate but so much detail is put into making things look like they are from that time but then you just have this guy who feels totally out of place.

My view of Dutch has always been that he really doesn't genuinely give a shit about much of anyone, all he really cares about when it comes to other people is what they can do for him or how he can manipulate them into doing something beneficial to him. He maintains a thin veneer of civility and politeness for a while but when his back is against the wall, he doesn't care who he needs to go through to get out, even if they're friendly to him or dedicated to him. A big part of the game is Arthur realizing that despite all of Dutch's superficial "noble savage" bullshit and Robin Hoodesque sermonizing and his grand plans, he's nothing more than a common thug, he just happens to be smarter than most of his contemporaries and can spin a good yarn. The one thing Dutch does in the entirety of RDR2 that might indicate he cares about anyone genuinely is when he offs Micah on the mountain but he doesn't stay that way for long, considering by the time he's next seen in RDR1 he's killing civilians for the hell of it and running around with a band of Indians who's bitterness over losing their land he exploits for his own gain. He actually exploits the natives that he supposedly "cares for" and "commiserates with their plight" in both games he appears in, that's something I'd forgotten about. In general in the start of the game he probably does genuinely care about the people in the gang but only so much as their success is also his success, but as things get more and more dire it becomes clear how selfish he is.

Anyway I don't particularly see a lot of earmarks of modern leftoid stuff in RDR2 personally. A few remarks or lines of dialogue maybe, but overall, the gang is supposed to be a bunch of outcasts and it makes sense that there would be at least one native dude, one black guy and a Mexican dude in the gang. Since they're already outcasts they're likely to commiserate with the other characters who've been outcast for whatever reason, like Javier who got run out of Mexico before he fell in with them. That's not to say that parts of the game aren't colored a bit by the makers' own personal beliefs, that's pretty much unavoidable, but overall I played through the entire game and never once felt like I was being beaten over the head with The Message , the few outright political things [like the KKK burning crosses or the LeMoyne Raiders bitching about niggers or the Indians complaining about stolen land or the eugenics guy] make sense given the time period.

That's just me though, if people found the political messaging in the game odious, I'm not gonna tell them to like it anyway but personally I didn't find anything too irritating in it. I liked that basically none of the characters were totally one dimensional. My complaints about the game are mostly regarding gameplay issues and also the Guarma chapter is kind of a slog.

 

[The Last Stand]

I swear to God, half the people in this thread are actually fucking retarded.

There is way too many people going "durr hurr why isn't so-and-so racist..? it's the wild west so it makes no sense for them not to be..!" while completely disregarding all the outside context directly explaining why that is.

RDR2 is woke. Where's the WHITES Only signs? Where' the lynchings? Why can I sneer at the BASED race eugenics NPC?! Why are there BITCHES as outlaws!!?!

 

[Sicko Hunter]

Just finished my second playthrough of red dead 2 and man, the final mission with Micah and the Pinkertons is still as good as I remember it when I played it the first time. Arthur's death is moving. Beating the shit out of Micah and watching Dutch reject him is so good.

Ultimately the complaints I've made in this thread are just minor nitpicks. I think Red dead 2 is one of the greatest games ever made. Easily the best open world map ever made in my opinion. Few games have ever actually been able to create a game world that actually feels living, like the people and creatures within it actually have real lives going on in it. RDR2 is one of maybe half a dozen to do this. The exploration which to me is my favorite feature in a video game is unparalleled. Creeping through the Bayous under the stars at night, rifling through old homesteads for clues about who lived there, the fantastic stranger quests... I could gush about this game for hours.

 

[Sicko Hunter]

RDR2 is woke. Where's the WHITES Only signs? Where' the lynchings? Why can I sneer at the BASED race eugenics NPC?! Why are there BITCHES as outlaws!!?!

Not even remotely what I said or implied but you already know that and you're just straw manning. I also never once said it was "woke" it's not.

Anyways, earlier in the thread I asked about why Dutch keeps Micah around when he clearly is unstable and there is actually an in game explanation for it I found. Micah saved Dutch from being killed in a bar fight before the events of RDR2 happened. Basically Dutch feels indebted to Micah which explains why he looks past his horrible behavior. That and his skill and loyalty
.

 

[William Murderface]

Still on my second playthrough of red dead 2. I had completely forgotten about this part in the swamp right before they leDutch doesave for Tahiti where Dutch hears Bill call the Indians he fought while in the military savages and he goes on a triggered rant about "Actually the REAL savages are inbred whites and European immigrants!" like my god man shut the fuck up. I don't remember the writing being this heavy handed with the social justice shit.
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I don't think Dutch believes any of it though. He's just parroting Evelyn Miller and telling Bill he's stupid. Dutch doesn't want anyone thinking for themselves, including Bill because if someone as dimwitted as Bill can see through Dutch's nonsense, then anyone can. Dutch certainly doesn't have any qualms about using the Indians to attack the Army or the oil refinery in RDR2 or as his personal gang in RDR1. Dutch is just really good at saying the right things to get people to do what he wants is all. And like was pointed out above, he's shutting Bill down to also curry favor with the boat owner by standing up to Bill against racism.

It was all an act though.

 

[William Murderface]

Kinda funny then that Dutch, despite being so "caring" about the plight of the poor Injuns, later uses them to do his bidding and gets a bunch of them killed. Honestly one could draw comparisons to the people in the modern day who virtue signal about shit all the time but never actually do anything about it or attempt to make the situation better, or as they do in many cases, make the situation far worse. Not to mention almost nobody in that time period would have argued with anyone claiming some tribes were savages, because most men of that period [especially men who were quick with a gun] would have encountered hostile tribes from time to time. Most men of that age during that time would have seen at least some of what the hostile tribes had done, scalping entire villages, clubbing all the children to death and doing a damned fine job of killing other tribes.

That's not entirely accurate though. In the 1860s and 70s, we had the worst of the fighting with the Plains Indians and it was very bloody. Both the settlers and the Army were saying the Indians simply needed wiped out, but it was the do gooders back East who never had to deal with scalpings and seeing their children stolen or the women gang raped who were saying the poor Indians were getting a bad break and then demanded the Army back off because they were the ones who were being so brutal and the poor misunderstood Indians were the real victims.

 

[Sicko Hunter]

I don't think Dutch believes any of it though. He's just parroting Evelyn Miller and telling Bill he's stupid. Dutch doesn't want anyone thinking for themselves, including Bill because if someone as dimwitted as Bill can see through Dutch's nonsense, then anyone can. Dutch certainly doesn't have any qualms about using the Indians to attack the Army or the oil refinery in RDR2 or as his personal gang in RDR1. Dutch is just really good at saying the right things to get people to do what he wants is all. And like was pointed out above, he's shutting Bill down to also curry favor with the boat owner by standing up to Bill against racism.

It was all an act though.

Having finished my second playthrough and replaying the missions with the Indians late game where Dutch outright admits to Arthur he's using them I can now fully see where you are coming from about that speech. Dutch isn't some progressive loving guy who is passionate about helping Indians he's using them and even says as much to Arthur during the mission where you ambush an Army caravan. He's a sociopath using people for his own gain. I still stand it being weird and out of place though but it's such really only a small thing in an otherwise fantastic game.

I honestly didn't want to derail this thread so much about such a small issue.

 

[666NASTYFUCKINGFREAK666]

Enough derailment gentlemen, let us focus on what is necessary.

 

[The Last Stand]

Glad that Red Dead Redemption's online is still thriving many years after its launch. I worry it would be forgotten like GTA IV's multiplayer was from PC, only playable on Xbox 360 and PS3. I know there's BC from Xbox One/Series, but that's a bandaid solution since PC does not have multiplayer.

Hardcore, Friendly free roam lobbies should've returned with RDO. At least private lobbies like in GTA Online.

 

[Nobunaga]

Enough derailment gentlemen, let us focus on what is necessary.

Yeah, where is the dead red revolver 2 sequel rockstar?

 

[Sicko Hunter]

I tried red dead revolver at a friends house and couldn't get into it. Maybe I should give it a second chance.

 

[Deus Exica]

Anyway I don't particularly see a lot of earmarks of modern leftoid stuff in RDR2 personally

There is some shit that's pretty transparently leftist pandering shit. The guy arguing against miscegenation, every racist you encounter is characterized as a genuine retard via notes or dialogue, and many of your encounters with the Lemoyne Raiders, or the side quest with the old slave catcher, who murdering in cold blood while he is crying over the burning of his last few valuables is actually considered the good and morally just option as it gives you positive honor points.

And don't forget the completely anachronistic KKK who are the only random encounter enemies you can encounter that rewards you with positive honor for killing. So by the game's own logic, killing murderous bandits or violent psychopaths who are actively trying to hurt innocent people is a neutral choice and the only time murder is ever morally justified, hell, a net gain, is when you do it against a hecking white racist.

Much of the game reeks of typical violent liberal murder racist revenge porn.

 

[The Last Stand]

And don't forget the completely anachronistic KKK who are the only random encounter enemies you can encounter that rewards you with positive honor for killing. So by the game's own logic, killing murderous bandits or violent psychopaths who are actively trying to hurt innocent people is a neutral choice and the only time murder is ever morally justified, hell, a net gain, is when you do it against a hecking white racist.

Interesting that you said nothing about the suffragette encounter in that same game.

 

[Deus Exica]

Interesting that you said nothing about the suffragette encounter in that same game.

You're allowed to kill her but not disagree with her.

 

[Sicko Hunter]

There is some shit that's pretty transparently leftist pandering shit. The guy arguing against miscegenation, every racist you encounter is characterized as a genuine retard via notes or dialogue, and many of your encounters with the Lemoyne Raiders, or the side quest with the old slave catcher, who murdering in cold blood while he is crying over the burning of his last few valuables is actually considered the good and morally just option as it gives you positive honor points.

And don't forget the completely anachronistic KKK who are the only random encounter enemies you can encounter that rewards you with positive honor for killing. So by the game's own logic, killing murderous bandits or violent psychopaths who are actively trying to hurt innocent people is a neutral choice and the only time murder is ever morally justified, hell, a net gain, is when you do it against a hecking white racist.

Much of the game reeks of typical violent liberal murder racist revenge porn.

The KKK random encounter is so short and detached from the actual plot of the game it really should not bother anyone. It's such a tiny thing to be upset about. Like did you expect a mainstream AAA studio to portray the Klan in a neutral light?

 

[Mnutu]

The KKK random encounter is so short and detached from the actual plot of the game it really should not bother anyone. It's such a tiny thing to be upset about. Like did you expect a mainstream AAA studio to portray the Klan in a neutral light?

How about not including them at all, when they are in neither the right time nor place for it?

 

[Sicko Hunter]

I don't disagree with you at all I don't think the KKK should be in the game I just think it's a very small thing to be bothered by that's all. I think if anything the whole Rhodes section where everyone is shown as an ignorant hick is far more egregious.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

It's true that the KKK's, specifically the variant seen in the game, existence is one the biggest, and most unnecessary anachronisms in it. However, it doesn't hold a candle to the sentient robot which also exists, and yet no one ever complains about.

At least the KKK can kinda be handwaved by saying RDR2 has a different timeline than our own. The sentient robot doesn't have that excuse. It's just there as a shitty Frankenstein reference even though the game already has a much better one in the form of the Manmade Mutant.

I don't disagree with you at all I don't think the KKK should be in the game I just think it's a very small thing to be bothered by that's all.

It's a rare encounter, too. I've put in hundreds of hours into this game, and I'm pretty sure I've only seen the KKK twice.

 

[Sicko Hunter]

It's a rare encounter, too. I've put in hundreds of hours into this game, and I'm pretty sure I've only seen the KKK twice.

I didn't even see it during my second playthrough of RDR2 that I semi documented in this thread. It literally did not come up. You almost have to go out of your way to find it. It's in a very rural, secluded section of forest northwest of Rhodes during the night.