RPGnet Forums

[Autistic Joe]

View attachment 2847125

If memory serves me correctly, that 'member of the staff' calls himself 'Save vs DM'. And he only got the job as staff because he got a temp ban over something and came back with basically "you can't do that, I'm a Native American". At which point the ban was immediately rescinded, and he was invited to join the mod team.

Pretty sure BCAugust is also Native American, I think from Canada? I don't know where they get this shit from, I have literally never in my life met anyone who "doesn't believe in the existence" of American Indians. I mean, just to name a few cultural references - Pocahontas (the original, not Elizabeth Warren), Chief Sitting Bull, "Cowboys and Indians", the guy in the 1970's anti-littering commercial, and the people who run the casinos.

Am I imagining this? Has anyone here ever met anyone who denies the existence of Indians? Like they're just a fairy tale or something? Jfc these people.


Edit to add:

Random reacharound post of the morning.

Also from this thread:

So if I'm understanding correctly... putting any Real Life oppression your game is BADWRONGFUN because "escapism". But then NOT putting any Real Life oppression in your game is BADWRONGFUN because "denial and erasure"? We've seen plenty of bans/warnings thrown at people who very carefully described how they have a non-racist, non-colonial, non-misogynist environment in their game world.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Pretty sure BCAugust is also Native American, I think from Canada? I don't know where they get this shit from, I have literally never in my life met anyone who "doesn't believe in the existence" of American Indians. I mean, just to name a few cultural references - Pocahontas (the original, not Elizabeth Warren), Chief Sitting Bull, "Cowboys and Indians", the guy in the 1970's anti-littering commercial, and the people who run the casinos.

Am I imagining this? Has anyone here ever met anyone who denies the existence of Indians? Like they're just a fairy tale or something? Jfc these people.


Edit to add:

Also from this thread:
View attachment 2848143
View attachment 2848146

So if I'm understanding correctly... putting any Real Life oppression your game is BADWRONGFUN because "escapism". But then NOT putting any Real Life oppression in your game is BADWRONGFUN because "denial and erasure"? We've seen plenty of bans/warnings thrown at people who very carefully described how they have a non-racist, non-colonial, non-misogynist environment in their game world.

I love that they're talking about the racism of missionary schools as though it was only ever minority children that had this happen to them. Dumb English speaking chucklefucks the UK, Australia, Canada and more all got caught less than a century ago being involved in fucking child slavery (along with a list of other awful shit). And unsurprisingly their victims were overwhelmingly white. You'd think a board stuffed with posters from at least two of those countries would know about that.

The child abuse scandal of the British children sent abroad

For several decades, the UK sent children across the world to new lives where many were abused.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[NerdShamer]

D&D race-mixing from one the admins.

 

[Shaka Brah]

D&D race-mixing from one the admins.

D&D physiognomy. Is he admitting to human biodiversity?

 

[NerdShamer]

D&D physiognomy. Is he admitting to human biodiversity?

I'm under the impression that some of the races of D&D hate each other to varying degrees. But as it is, it's more or less implying biodiversity in humanity by moving the goalposts away from why an orc is different than elf.

 

[Shaka Brah]

I'm under the impression that some of the races of D&D hate each other to varying degrees. But as it is, it's more or less implying biodiversity in humanity by moving the goalposts away from why an orc is different than elf.

Whites = Elves, Niggers = Orcs. Got it. Thanks RPGnet mods!

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

That's why my previous opinion has changed. That IS more dangerous than what the talibengicals did.

But you're still incorrect about the fundies being a joke. If a demographic is worth a presidential candidate or party trying to appeal to them, they're still relevant.

Bro you are stuck so unbelievably deep in the past. The religious right is long disenfranchised and dead, and your access to toys isn't what's at stake in the world today.

So if I'm understanding correctly... putting any Real Life oppression your game is BADWRONGFUN because "escapism". But then NOT putting any Real Life oppression in your game is BADWRONGFUN because "denial and erasure"? We've seen plenty of bans/warnings thrown at people who very carefully described how they have a non-racist, non-colonial, non-misogynist environment in their game world.

In their view race is a social construct that is framed in opposition to "whiteness". Race is the oppressive experience that "racialized" individuals face due to society's systemic white privilege, and as such racism is not simply discriminatory action but rather a fundamental structural element of society that seeks to privilege whites above all other groups. To not acknowledge race or racism is a sign of privilege —a privilege afforded by whiteness— and therefore is to be complicit in racism. As such, one must at all times confront their place in the racial power dynamic; to do otherwise is to be racist. This also extends to people who are quite literally not white; if a black man acts "in a white way" then he must be seeking to obtain whiteness —seeking to obtain privilege at the expense of other blacks— hence we get the occasional "black white supremacist".

Am I imagining this? Has anyone here ever met anyone who denies the existence of Indians? Like they're just a fairy tale or something? Jfc these people.

Since race is an experience rather than a biological reality, denial of that experience is a denial of the existence of their race, and a denial of their oppression. Translating, they probably just mean people that aren't sufficiently vocally guilty about anti-indian racism.

It's all sort of internally consistent in a demented kind of way, but personally I'm content to simply be racist at all times.

Whites = Elves, Niggers = Orcs. Got it. Thanks RPGnet mods!

Why would you compare whites to knife ears? Incredibly hurtful.

 

[Jan Ciągwa]

Spoiler: rpg.net mod welcoming back a member after a 1-month ban, colorized

 

[The Ugly One]

Pretty sure BCAugust is also Native American, I think from Canada? I don't know where they get this shit from, I have literally never in my life met anyone who "doesn't believe in the existence" of American Indians. I mean, just to name a few cultural references - Pocahontas (the original, not Elizabeth Warren), Chief Sitting Bull, "Cowboys and Indians", the guy in the 1970's anti-littering commercial, and the people who run the casinos.

Am I imagining this? Has anyone here ever met anyone who denies the existence of Indians? Like they're just a fairy tale or something? Jfc these people.

What they mean is the same thing they mean by "denying the existence of trans people." If you think Bruce Jenner is just a mentally ill pervert who cut off his dick, and not actually a woman in his soul, you are denying the existence of a trans person.

The average "Native American" in the United States is just white. IDK about Canada, but in the USA, every so often they dilute the official definition of "Native American" because intermarriage keeps reducing the number of people who are visibly Indian. If you doubt that a blonde-haired, blue-eyed woman who speaks English and has never set foot on a reservation is a "Native American," you're "denying the existence of indigenous people."

 

[The Ugly One]

I love that they're talking about the racism of missionary schools as though it was only ever minority children that had this happen to them. Dumb English speaking chucklefucks the UK, Australia, Canada and more all got caught less than a century ago being involved in fucking child slavery (along with a list of other awful shit). And unsurprisingly their victims were overwhelmingly white. You'd think a board stuffed with posters from at least two of those countries would know about that.

I'm guessing they also don't know that there were a fair number of black, slave-holding, plantation owners in the South.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

I'm guessing they also don't know that there were a fair number of black, slave-holding, plantation owners in the South.

Don't even start on the Indian Plantations. The Five Civilized Tribes, in yet another indication of their assimilation into the American culture, saw many of their leaders join the Planter Class, to the point that a large percentage of the Cherokee were rather aggressive in their support of the CSA (if I took a shot every time I've mentioned Stand Watie, I'd have alcohol poisoning). But that doesn't matter, because Noble Savage always wins out in SJW circles until you bring up Cherokee Freedmen.

 

[The Ugly One]

Don't even start on the Indian Plantations. The Five Civilized Tribes, in yet another indication of their assimilation into the American culture, saw many of their leaders join the Planter Class, to the point that a large percentage of the Cherokee were rather aggressive in their support of the CSA (if I took a shot every time I've mentioned Stand Watie, I'd have alcohol poisoning). But that doesn't matter, because Noble Savage always wins out in SJW circles until you bring up Cherokee Freedmen.

All of the Plains Indians were constantly raiding each other for slaves all the time. In fact, their political system revolved around slave raids, as the way a new chief was chosen was by demonstrating courage and heroism during a raid.

 

[Hugbox Kommissar]

D&D race-mixing from one the admins.

At this point they're just playing word games to obfuscate the issue. You can't square the circle of "D&D says elves are smarter than orcs" vs "my ideology demands that I believe all humans are equally fungible". The solution, of course, is "its just a game, I should really just relax", but that's impossible for them since Everything is Political.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

All of the Plains Indians were constantly raiding each other for slaves all the time. In fact, their political system revolved around slave raids, as the way a new chief was chosen was by demonstrating courage and heroism during a raid.

If anyone ever mocks sympathy for the CSA as "backing losers," remind them that the Sioux were even bigger losers who got their shit kicked in after terrorizing settlers and picking a fight with an industrial country.

On that note, reiterate that the Sioux only arrived in the Dakotas in the late 18th Century, so they don't have any better claim to the territory than modern Dakotans do.

 

[Kongo-Müller]

All of the Plains Indians were constantly raiding each other for slaves all the time. In fact, their political system revolved around slave raids, as the way a new chief was chosen was by demonstrating courage and heroism during a raid.

Many of the Indian tribes of the Pacific Northwest like the Tlingit, Haida or Tsimshian also had extensive systems of slavery and indentured servitude.

 

[The Ugly One]

The

At this point they're just playing word games to obfuscate the issue. You can't square the circle of "D&D says elves are smarter than orcs" vs "my ideology demands that I believe all humans are equally fungible". The solution, of course, is "its just a game, I should really just relax", but that's impossible for them since Everything is Political.

They should stop playing D&D forever and ban every mention of it from the board. By their own standards, it's irredeemable.

1. Racists like it. In woke world, you can either be racist or anti-racist. Out racists (like Varg) take the core of D&D and build explicitly racist games or campaigns all the time. If D&D was fundamentally anti-racist, they wouldn't be able to do it. If D&D were built in a way to center anti-racism, no racist would ever come near it.
2. It was created by dead, white, bigoted males. Doesn't matter how many troons, women, and blacks they add to the team of D&D. As long as D&D exists, the RPG industry will be centered on a game created by Gygax, Arneson, Cook, Kask, Mentzer, etc. There is no way to give a black transwoman a founder's credit for D&D.
3. It's intrinsically ableist. The core of D&D character sheet is the ability array. The struggle against ableism isn't just adding battle wheelchairs, it's undoing social structures that accord power & privilege to people based on their physical abilities. In D&D, a stat array of 18/18/18/18/18/18 is objectively better than 8/8/8/8/8/8, making it ableist. A non-ableist game would ensure everyone was given equal prestige and value, regardless of ability.
4. It's intrinsically colonialist. The D&D concept of "exploration" derives from Gary Gygax's fascination with the genocidal "exploration" of the American West. The D&D ruleset has an intrinsically colonialist idea of "exploration," the idea being everything away from "civilization" is "wilderness" populated by "threats" to be "conquered."
5. It fetishizes violence and weapons. The D&D ruleset focuses on individualized, heroic combat by people who own personal weapons. This is deeply problematic in itself; in light of Sandy Hook, how could we say that a hero could own a weapon? Also, it accords power and privilege to people who are good at combat and demeans those who aren't. In D&D, if you make a party that is really good at debunking COVID-19 misinformation but doesn't own any deadly weapons, you will fail right at the beginning of Lost Mines of Phandelver.
6. Did I mention it's ableist? D&D centers around physical activities like exploration & combat. A battle wheelchair in the name of representation is just a bandaid on a gushing wound. It's still centering and privileging activities that require physical abilities to excel in, and completely marginalizes people whose lived experience has nothing to do with going outside. What about a large-bodied transwoman of Latinx descent who never leaves her apartment, but spends all day reporting fascists on Twitter? She's just as valuable as somebody who could "delve" into a "dungeon," maybe even more valuable, but D&D rejects this.
7. It's white supremacist. It's right there in the name. D&D centers whiteness in its mythos and rules. Many cultures have no concept of a "Dragon," let alone the medieval, European notion of a gold-hoarding, fire-breathing beast. Plate armor, crossbows, castles, cities---we don't find these or any equivalent among the Iroquois or the Bantu. D&D is basically making the white experience of history and myth normative.
8. All sentient monsters are racist. The whole point of a sentient monster is to have someone who is human enough to be threatening, but sufficiently inhuman that the player doesn't feel bad about killing it. In other words, it's exactly how white people from Europe saw all the rest of the world. It doesn't matter if a monster is explicitly an allegory for a specific race or tribe; the basic concept of a monster is to allow living out an implicitly white supremacist fantasy.

Frankly, it's a miracle that nobody there has figured this out and started handing out bans.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

Whites = Elves, Niggers = Orcs. Got it. Thanks RPGnet mods!

I've always gone for
Whites = humans
Jews = elves
Blacks = orcs
Mexicans = dwarves?

Should really consult with the RPGmods if latins all get grouped in one fictional race or if they're broken up by nationality.

 

[Elwin Ransom]

RPGnet hates the Tcho-Tcho. It's the single largest criticism they have about Delta Green, in that the Tcho-Tcho weaponize political correctness in their beachhead in the US.

It's a neat little thing that somehow survived the new edition, which is otherwise mostly filled with Detwiller's terminal TDS and seething about Russia.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

I've always gone for
Whites = humans
Jews = elves
Blacks = orcs
Mexicans = dwarves?

Should really consult with the RPGmods if latins all get grouped in one fictional race or if they're broken up by nationality.

White = Elves, Humans
Jews = Dwarves, gnomes
Blacks = Orcs, Drow, Trolls, Giants, Ogres
Mexicans = Halfings (because they steal)
Slavs = Goblins

Shit, I don't know.

I wanna see a halfling wandering around with a sombrero and a bottle of tequila, stealing the gold horseshoes off of the nobles horses and riding around in their low-rider chariots.

 

[Doctor Placebo]

Blacks = Drow

Drow are far more like Arabs, TBH, especially with their penchant for slavery.

White = Elves, Humans
Jews = Dwarves, gnomes
Blacks = Orcs, Drow, Trolls, Giants, Ogres
Mexicans = Halfings (because they steal)
Slavs = Goblins

Shit, I don't know.

I wanna see a halfling wandering around with a sombrero and a bottle of tequila, stealing the gold horseshoes off of the nobles horses and riding around in their low-rider chariots.

Some troll should make a /pol/ themed tabletop RPG where the setting is the modern world and do write ups of all the different real races like they're DnD races. The autistic screeching it would trigger would be glorious.