RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Part of that is because of the Fandom, part of it is because the show has been around for so goddamn long, more still I'm going to argue that the Fandom engagement has lessened in quality because the show is just so fucking boring now. Not even entertaining bad. At this rate I'm fully expecting the show to get cancelled last minute due to apathy.

On top of all of that RoosterTeeth's total implosion hasn't helped matters.

Also I found this picture in an ancient long forgotten folder on one of my side drives under the filname "RWBY is what happens when you don't grow up to realize that the story ideas you had as a kid were shitty ideas".

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

It's hard to disagree when all the best fanfiction I see ignores what Roosterteeth is doing in favor of seasons 1-3. No one likes the gay relics.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

It's hard to disagree when all the best fanfiction I see ignores what Roosterteeth is doing in favor of seasons 1-3. No one likes the gay relics.

In all fairness I think it was @Skipjack who stated earlier in the thread that RWBY just isn't smart enough and doesn't have enough going for it to be a serialized show and I agree with him, it works best in episodic storytelling. I think the issue with the brother gods and the Salem/Ozpin feud and the relics is that it expands the scope too much to where the story just becomes a McGuffin hunt since there's no disernable endgame on what the relics actually are or what they'd do if you gathered them all, they just don't make much sense frankly.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

In all fairness I think it was @Skipjack who stated earlier in the thread that RWBY just isn't smart enough and doesn't have enough going for it to be a serialized show and I agree with him, it works best in episodic storytelling. I think the issue with the brother gods and the Salem/Ozpin feud and the relics is that it expands the scope too much to where the story just becomes a McGuffin hunt since there's no disernable endgame on what the relics actually are or what they'd do if you gathered them all, they just don't make much sense frankly.

I think that the real problem is that the original promise, the huntsmen, are just too far diverged from ozpin and his retarded feud with his ex-lover who cockblocked him. I wanted to see cool fights as cute girls protected the outlands from grim raids. A simpler story, but one that could easily be made enjoyable with, as you said, episodic storytelling.

Instead, I get a skyrim fetch quest.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I think that the real problem is that the original promise, the huntsmen, are just too far diverged from ozpin and his retarded feud with his ex-lover who cockblocked him. I wanted to see cool fights as cute girls protected the outlands from grim raids. A simpler story, but one that could easily be made enjoyable with, as you said, episodic storytelling.

Instead, I get a skyrim fetch quest.

I think that instead of trying (and failing) to emulate ATLA CRWBY should have instead tried to emulate Teen Titans.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

I think that instead of trying (and failing) to emulate ATLA CRWBY should have instead tried to emulate Teen Titans.

Precisely. Salem is a problem that never should've been solved. Ignore the source of the grim, fight the hordes themselves, and actually go ham on that worldbuilding, which is pretty interesting for what it is.

 

[Random Internet Person]

In all fairness I think it was @Skipjack who stated earlier in the thread that RWBY just isn't smart enough and doesn't have enough going for it to be a serialized show and I agree with him, it works best in episodic storytelling. I think the issue with the brother gods and the Salem/Ozpin feud and the relics is that it expands the scope too much to where the story just becomes a McGuffin hunt since there's no disernable endgame on what the relics actually are or what they'd do if you gathered them all, they just don't make much sense frankly.

I’d just say it seems like two shows mashed together. The why is anyone’s guess.

Also I found this picture in an ancient long forgotten folder on one of my side drives under the filname "RWBY is what happens when you don't grow up to realize that the story ideas you had as a kid were shitty ideas".
View attachment 2923559

Seeing as this is only for V3, you think this needs updating?

I think that instead of trying (and failing) to emulate ATLA CRWBY should have instead tried to emulate Teen Titans.

Never watched Teen Titans, so I have no idea how that’d work or what that’d accomplish.

Precisely. Salem is a problem that never should've been solved. Ignore the source of the grim, fight the hordes themselves, and actually go ham on that worldbuilding, which is pretty interesting for what it is.

Eh, part of me thinks that”who controls?” question was always going to hang over the show and be asked. I feel it could have been another “How did Jaune get Phyrra’s armor?” kind of situation.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Precisely. Salem is a problem that never should've been solved. Ignore the source of the grim, fight the hordes themselves, and actually go ham on that worldbuilding, which is pretty interesting for what it is.

The Grimm don't need a master, they're big dumb monsters that yu have big dumb fights with. Salem also ruins Cinder since Cinder is relegated to nothing more than middle management for a worse bad guy, and honestly if you took Cinder and made her motivations something along the lines of the classic "This world is rotten and I hate it so I'm gonna burn it all down" villain you could have something with her that sets her apart from the other villains in the series rather than just make her the least competent toady for Salem.

I’d just say it seems like two shows mashed together. The why is anyone’s guess.

I think it's honestly just because M&K wanted to write a more "serious" story and didn't fully understand that the concept and tone just plain didn't have the meat to support the scope they were aiming for.

Seeing as this is only for V3, you think this needs updating?

Absolutely but I'm not gonna expend the effort. Psychopathic Mute Murderbitch is this show's eternal best girl anyways and she's already on the list.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Never watched Teen Titans, so I have no idea how that’d work or what that’d accomplish.

I haven't watched Teen Titans in quite a few years myself but it was (at least from what I remember of it) a very good example of a cartoon that told some very nice long term character stories through a multi season episodic format that never had anything longer than a three parter. I think that RWBY could have worked with the same framework.

Eh, part of me thinks that”who controls?” question was always going to hang over the show and be asked. I feel it could have been another “How did Jaune get Phyrra’s armor?” kind of situation.

I just think that the Grim don't need a controller, they're part of the world like any other animal. They're big dumb monsters that rove around and fuck shit up and there isn't some greater purpose to them.

EDIT: sorry for the double post I just didn't see the bottom half of your comment.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

I just think that the Grim don't need a controller, they're part of the world like any other animal. They're big dumb monsters that rove around and fuck shit up and there isn't some greater purpose to them.

From volumes 1-3 (the best volumes, and if you have a different opinion, it's wrong), there was absolutely nothing in the lore which suggested the grim even needed a master, let alone had one. Part of why the salem bullshit came out of nowhere. They could've literally been explained by old the old legend about the 'dark brother' (mah nigga), throwing a temper tantrum, breaking part of the moon, and the grim coming from the shards that landed on remnant.

You don't need to explain shit. Just eventually show their spawning pools.

 

[Random Internet Person]

From volumes 1-3 (the best volumes, and if you have a different opinion, it's wrong), there was absolutely nothing in the lore which suggested the grim even needed a master, let alone had one. Part of why the salem bullshit came out of nowhere. They could've literally been explained by old the old legend about the 'dark brother' (mah nigga), throwing a temper tantrum, breaking part of the moon, and the grim coming from the shards that landed on remnant.

You don't need to explain shit. Just eventually show their spawning pools.

And even then, the show wanted Cinder and her lackeys and Adam to be the big deal.

 

[SheerHeartAttack]

Yeah I've toyed with ideas for that sorta thing and every time I tried to explain shit like that it got dumb and convoluted real quick. So it staying with the concept of fighting monsters would have worked better. Hell there's a lot of concepts that can be cut down or modified, like the black fang/faunus, Salem, the Gods, the 4 kingdoms, what dust exactly does aside from 'make funny weapons go brrrr'.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

And even then, the show wanted Cinder and her lackeys and Adam to be the big deal.

That's because they were a big deal. Cinder is super powerful even without maiden powers, combine that with Mercury and Emerald and you have a serious team of power players. Adam was also incredibly powerful on his own but when you think of the literal private army he had at his command you realize that the White Fang really were a tract of land away from being a rogue state/bandit kingdom all their own.

black fang/faunus, Salem, the Gods, the 4 kingdoms, what dust exactly does aside from 'make funny weapons go brrrr'.

White Fang and the Faunus need some serious tweaking if not outright removal from the setting.
Salem needs to be nixed entirely.
The Gods need to be nixed entirely.
The 4 kingdoms are fine they just need fleshing out and personally I'd make it so that Menagerie is recognized as the fifth kingdom.
Dust is this setting's basis of all technology and effectively serves as your magic system as well, just make it magitech fuel and you're golden. The weird rocks that unleash energy when you break them really don't need fleching out other than it's a valuable resource and lots of people want it.

 

[Skipjack]

In all fairness I think it was @Skipjack who stated earlier in the thread that RWBY just isn't smart enough and doesn't have enough going for it to be a serialized show and I agree with him, it works best in episodic storytelling. I think the issue with the brother gods and the Salem/Ozpin feud and the relics is that it expands the scope too much to where the story just becomes a McGuffin hunt since there's no disernable endgame on what the relics actually are or what they'd do if you gathered them all, they just don't make much sense frankly.

It was me, yeah. I agree with the others that the stakes need to be shrunk. A few episodes of defending Grimm from various locales-- there's that "worldbuilding" everyone talks about-- and then a couple hinting at Cinder's existence, then a season finale where they fight her. That sort of thing. Basic superhero plot. For the characters, focus on typical schoolgirl antics and rather basic dilemmas: Ruby's inexperience, Weiss's family pressure, Blake dealing with prejudice, Yang looking for her mom. You don't need to go much deeper than that.

 

[Mega Black]

Yeah I've toyed with ideas for that sorta thing and every time I tried to explain shit like that it got dumb and convoluted real quick. So it staying with the concept of fighting monsters would have worked better. Hell there's a lot of concepts that can be cut down or modified, like the black fang/faunus, Salem, the Gods, the 4 kingdoms, what dust exactly does aside from 'make funny weapons go brrrr'.

I've always felt like RWBY should have stuck to an early 2000's action cartoon style. Able to get dark at key moments, has a 'main plot' boiling in the background, but it's mostly episodic and relies on its characters to maintain audience attention. Sidelining the awesome (at least looking) protagonists in favor of a bland dude and plot-driven serialization will always be RWBY's silver bullet, I think.

Salem needs to be nixed entirely.

Honestly I don't think the idea of giving the show a 'mastermind' villain is a bad idea on paper. She just needs to be written consistently, that's where they always fuck up with Salem. Is she a kind, motherly, woman who is very open and generally kind to her subordinates in an attempt to subvert the evil witch archetype? Is she an intimidating manipulator? Is she a big scary lady who physically dominates and tortures everyone, keeping her own lackeys in line through fear and pain? Fuck if I know, the writers sure don't. Fixing Salem would be pretty easy, and I'll take anyone as the main villain over fucking Cinder.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Ruby's inexperience, Weiss's family pressure, Blake dealing with prejudice, Yang looking for her mom.

Honestly, I think the character arcs and baggage of Weiss, Blake, and Yang could have caused the show to have to get bigger and go above the crew's skill level because of what they are.

-Weiss taking back her family's name, which some say she can't do as a huntress (if you don't turn the Schnnes into Game of Thrones, I guess)
-Blake trying to improve human-Faunus relations (nothing more needs to be said)
-Yang looking for answers why her mom walked out (this could be manageable, but the show wants it to be a big deal and a major part of Yang's psyche)

Some things can't be solved with a bunch of fights. And everyone but Ruby's Weekly Shonen Jump level "I wanna be a huntress like my mom!" reads like a character route in a visual novel.

I've always felt like RWBY should have stuck to an early 2000's action cartoon style. Able to get dark at key moments, has a 'main plot' boiling in the background, but it's mostly episodic and relies on its characters to maintain audience attention

Congratulations, you just described Volumes 1 and 2. Or at least what was attempted back then.

Sidelining the awesome (at least looking) protagonists in favor of a bland dude and plot-driven serialization will always be RWBY's silver bullet, I think.

Honestly, after V1, I think you could say all of Team JNPR is weighing down the show and taking shit away from Team RWBY, not just Jaune. And each volume just adds more weight.

 

[Skipjack]

Honestly, I think the character arcs and baggage of Weiss, Blake, and Yang could have caused the show to have to get bigger and go above the crew's skill level because of what they are.

-Weiss taking back her family's name, which some say she can't do as a huntress (if you don't turn the Schnnes into Game of Thrones, I guess)
-Blake trying to improve human-Faunus relations (nothing more needs to be said)
-Yang looking for answers why her mom walked out (this could be manageable, but the show wants it to be a big deal and a major part of Yang's psyche)

Some things can't be solved with a bunch of fights. And everyone but Ruby's Weekly Shonen Jump level "I wanna be a huntress like my mom!" reads like a character route in a visual novel.

I never said we're going for novel or intelligent writing. Blake dealing with bigotry doesn't have to be about her solving racism, it could just be her fighting a bunch of shit then going "see, I'm capable!" to people who think she wouldn't be because she's minority. a Weiss can be "I want to become a huntress so I can be myself" or whatever. Yang can be more tied into an overall arc, like having a season where the final boss is Raven. Again, nothing special. Trite, even. But something manageable.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

Honestly I don't think the idea of giving the show a 'mastermind' villain is a bad idea on paper. She just needs to be written consistently, that's where they always fuck up with Salem. Is she a kind, motherly, woman who is very open and generally kind to her subordinates in an attempt to subvert the evil witch archetype? Is she an intimidating manipulator? Is she a big scary lady who physically dominates and tortures everyone, keeping her own lackeys in line through fear and pain? Fuck if I know, the writers sure don't. Fixing Salem would be pretty easy, and I'll take anyone as the main villain over fucking Cinder.

I do.

RWBY was best when the scope was small. There are three masterminds here. Roman, Cinder, then Salem. Each one needs to be worse than the last in order for things to make sense.

Roman is a great recurring antagonist.

Cinder is great for the final boss.

Salem puts you into territory where you are no longer dealing with the small scale. Fate of the world is a really shitty stake because you can't get the audience attached to it even if they agree with it in a general sense. Then you add in the whole "the grim don't need to have a master" thing, and your looking at redoing her appearance, backstory, and characterization at the bare minimum.

Easier to keep Cinders V1-3 characterization, and give her a decent backstory that isn't pathetic.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Roman is a great recurring antagonist.

Cinder is great for the final boss.

Salem puts you into territory where you are no longer dealing with the small scale. Fate of the world is a really shitty stake because you can't get the audience attached to it even if they agree with it in a general sense. Then you add in the whole "the grim don't need to have a master" thing, and your looking at redoing her appearance, backstory, and characterization at the bare minimum.

Easier to keep Cinders V1-3 characterization, and give her a decent backstory that isn't pathetic.

Sounds like a Sonic the Hedgehog game. And Salem is who you face after you collect all the Chaos Emeralds. Cinder is Dr. Eggman. And Roman and Neo are...just some big robot you need to beat before they blast off like Team Rocket.

I never said we're going for novel or intelligent writing. Blake dealing with bigotry doesn't have to be about her solving racism, it could just be her fighting a bunch of shit then going "see, I'm capable!" to people who think she wouldn't be because she's minority. a Weiss can be "I want to become a huntress so I can be myself" or whatever. Yang can be more tied into an overall arc, like having a season where the final boss is Raven. Again, nothing special. Trite, even. But something manageable.

Good point.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

Sounds like a Sonic the Hedgehog game. And Salem is who you face after you collect all the Chaos Emeralds. Cinder is Dr. Eggman. And Roman and Neo are...just some big robot you need to beat before they blast off like Team Rocket.

Sorta, kinda. They'd take the role of recurring antagonists. There's a lot of potential for depth in RWBY, like stuff dealing in the underworld. Roman, Neo, and Junior would be people the gang would occasionally interact with, sometimes as friends, sometimes as enemies, when they do anything that involves the shadier side of Vale.

Cinder is the kind of Big bad you could have a season finale for the fifth season or something. Spend a few seasons building up to it, then introduce her and have team RWBY beat her. She doesn't reoccur after that the way the criminals do, but it'd be compelling. Afterwards, you could have RWBY start branching out. By this point, they'd be out of Beacon, or a senior team at least, and you could have them go to different kingdoms as some kind of diplomatic/elite strike team.

Joint ops with Atlas specialists anyone?

There is an awful lot of potential for episodic story telling where the characters don't stay perpetually minors. Just follow team RWBY as they grow up, turn into adults, and eventually retire.