Some of the songs had lyrics about "are we just weapons pointed at the enemy so you can claim victory" or some other shit that had people theorycrafting. Also I think they were trying to substantiate Qrow's bitching about Ozpin beyond "He gave me and my bitch sister the power to turn into a bird at will, what a cunt" and "My teammate died in an dangerous occupation, I blame Ozpin somehow"
Qrow didn't bitch about Ozpin until early Volume 6. I think you might have had him confused by Raven or Yang (the former warned Yang about the secrets, and the latter complained about them and the inability to trust)
It was all in V5. Yang questioned it, Qrow said “We made a choice.”, and some thought it to be “Did you? Or did Ozpin manipulate you into making the choice he wanted you to make? Like he did with Phyrra when it came to being the Fall Maiden, when he could have had Glynda or any other pro Huntress he was on friendly terms with.”
I mean, it's the whole Dumbledore shtick. When you see someone being secretive, manipulative for their own goals, and extremely incompetent, the first thought is that they are secretly evil. Granted, Dumbledore was evil once (not that he did anything with it), but still. That's the three blaring traits of a stereotypical evil villain. Add in the fact that Ozpin is literally just throwing waves of waves of his huntsmen to die to Salem with no actual plan (and without giving them a real informed choice), and you have a makings of someone that could be evil. The songs helped too.
Him and everyone else in the series.
Jeff Williams straight up admitted before all this that he just writes the songs and sends them to RT without guidance or care for how they actually fit into the story. The songs have nothing to do with what's in the show.
That cannot be fucking real. Implying that Miles and Kerry are capable of writing characters with motivations that complex to begin with is already off the rails, but to somehow watch Cinder & Raven fuck up, be retarded, do stupid shit, and fail constantly and come away with "they're intelligent freedom fighters liberating the world from Ozpin" is fucking raw, mandatory lithium injection schizophrenia levels of Tumblr headcanon. To say nothing of the evil undying witch made of demon slime who has casually slaughtered humanity relentlessly for thousands of years being an agent of liberation.
Well, the post said those analyses haven't aged well.
The post had probably never been accurate as it relates to Cinder. Cinder never was, nor ever spoke about being a revolutionary. She was out for herself and for power. Her speech at Amity was not a speech about a better world, but about horrors of Vale, Atlas, and Mistral, i.e. designed to cause the Grimm attack. Her plan was twofold. Destroy Beacon and claim the Maiden's powers.
Actually I didn't have that reaction to Cinder's backstory at all. I thought it was just to show she was always horrible and always going to be horrible. And frankly I like Cinder just being plain evil better anyways, it's nice to just have her as some evil bitch and her betrayal and killing of Watts at the end was especially a nice touch too. I guess they just wanted to play with her name and the fairy tale theme and make her an evil Cinderella by showing that abusive childhood but instead of a prince saving her she just kills the people who abused her and even the guy who wanted to help her with zero regrets.
But she wasn't, though. She only became horrible after her cartoonishly evil step family abused her 24/7 and after her new Hunstmen friend witnessed the abuse and went "well, I can't do anything about it, don't you know, for no reason, missus. I can teach you self defense, but you must never use it, and you must never try to escape"
I agree. Sometimes simplicity is key.
I liked Watts screaming at her scene, and I think her eventual "fuck you" at the end by killing him was a nice touch. That said, I much much prefer him to Cinder.
Oh yeah, no argument here on that. Watts was even, dare I say it, a good villain and character? Not especially complex but at least competent and he perfectly manipulated Jacques, showing us the difference between a real villain and just an asshole. It actually made Cinder getting her extremely petty revenge on him good too cause she ends up pulling one over on the smart guy. I think Watts definitely came out the best of Salem's inner circle.
I'm saying I genuinely can't remember a time when any of the "canon" interpretations or the fanon interpretation of Raven was correct. Raven never seemed to me to be some sort of harsh but dedicated leader who craved strength, she was just a selfish bitch (hence why she abandoned Yang and Tai) who wants to have power/control and her tribe was the easy place to do that.
Didn’t the scene in the vault in the V5 finale basically have Yang call out Raven to say she only cared about herself and only used the tribe and strength to hide her true feelings?
Thing is that for one Yang doesn't know her well (I think grand total info she has on her is a one sentence conversation with Qrow and that one meetup in Vol 4). And ultimately, while Raven would like to be entirely for herself, she has been shown to care on multiple occasions where she didn't have to. Some of the top of my head:
We don't really know why that happened though. It could be that her marriage to Taiyang didn't work out, and that was just it.
I don't know if Raven was ever "next in line". My take was always that she took it by force. Like, they welcomed her in, but as a regular member.
Isn't this pretty much what she said in Vol 9 (bar the Yang bit)? I can believe that.
I still laugh at the fucking song that plays over her abuse with the most on-the-nose lyrics screaming at the audience.
Have you ever stopped to realize how sad that really is?
This show has never done subtlety.
I’ve also heard “taking by force” in terms of leadership, but the inciting incident for Raven leaving is pretty often the previous leader dying. I’ve just seen my fair share of the previous leaders being Qrow and Raven’s parents.
Even with that, I think it’s been well established that working for Ozpin led to a schism between the twins, and led to a breakup of Team STRQ.
The way you mention it is probably how that went down, though without the “wanting to be raised by Tai” aspect doesn’t really factor in much, although the “not wanting motherhood” makes her look too much of an irredeemable douche so that sometimes gets scrapped because it clashes it too much with the idea that Raven actually loves Yang in her own way.
