RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

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KaibaCorp ToeSucker said:
It must've been around V4 then. Thats where i jumped ship after they went to the town and I found out I wasn't going to get any rRman Torchwick and Neo backstory.
If you need context there was this photo that looked like the both of them and I was wondering if we were going to get something since one of the writers on twitter, I think it was Miles? Kept posting this chibi Torchwick with the ominous SOON over it.
After RWBY left town My friend and I were like "fuck it" and never looked back.

I do remember them shilling their CHECK THE ROOSTER TEETH~ website thing on their campcamp shit.
Speaking of RWBY however, did anyone ever buy those figures? I wanted to buy the Roman and Mercury one as a kid but I never heard if anyone bought those action statue things tbh.
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If you’re talking RWBY going RT exclusive, it was when V6 started. And they made Gen Lock First exclusive around the same time....and managed to get Gen Lock on Adult Swim.
 
I’m going to be completely honest, Ironwood turning out the way he did in Volume 7 was perfectly fine.
For fuck’s sake, the guy was in charge of the one military power on the planet, and the Headmaster of a Huntsman academy, and held a spot on the council (later two). That’s an assload of power for one guy to handle, and as the old saying goes, power corrupt. The fact that he had authoritarian tendencies certainly didn’t help matters much.
But then instead of addressing the issue that lead to this problem in the first place, CRWBY decides to say, “Ironwood’s not a villain because he’s an authoritarian and neglected Mantle, he’s a villain because he didn’t Trust Love(tm) ~uwu~” and turn him into a puppy-kicking evil Saturday morning cartoon villain who’s Oh So Manipulativ! All while FNDM insists Robyn or Winter in charge would have fixed everything.
 
Glorious Absolution said:
For fuck’s sake, the guy was in charge of the one military power on the planet, and the Headmaster of a Huntsman academy, and held a spot on the council (later two). That’s an assload of power for one guy to handle, and as the old saying goes, power corrupt. The fact that he had authoritarian tendencies certainly didn’t help matters much.
But then instead of addressing the issue that lead to this problem in the first place, CRWBY decides to say, “Ironwood’s not a villain because he’s an authoritarian and neglected Mantle, he’s a villain because he didn’t Trust Love(tm) ~uwu~” and turn him into a puppy-kicking evil Saturday morning cartoon villain who’s Oh So Manipulativ! All while FNDM insists Robyn or Winter in charge would have fixed everything.
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The thing is, for all of his supposed "authoritarian" tendencies, Ironwood never actually did anything wrong. Everything he did was completely justifiable given the situation and the actions of people around him, like Team RWBY's constant stupidity. He's the one character actually trying to make the most of a bad situation while Team RWBY sat around drinking tea. The only times he did something that wasn't justifiable, like shooting that council member, he was acting so thoroughly out of character that it was clear the CRWBY were trying to shoe horn him into being a villain, past characterization be damned. CRWBY shit the bed with his character in every way possible, not just one or two.
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
The thing is, for all of his supposed "authoritarian" tendencies, Ironwood never actually did anything wrong. Everything he did was completely justifiable given the situation and the actions of people around him, like Team RWBY's constant stupidity. He's the one character actually trying to make the most of a bad situation while Team RWBY sat around drinking tea. The only times he did something that wasn't justifiable, like shooting that council member, he was acting so thoroughly out of character that it was clear the CRWBY were trying to shoe horn him into being a villain, past characterization be damned. CRWBY shit the bed with his character in every way possible, not just one or two.
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I specifically said that I liked where he ended in Volume 7, I hated how Volume 8 handled it. What Ironwood actually did wrong was neglect Mantle, taking shit from them, enforcing curfews instead of updating security not fixing the wall, the whole ‘unlicensed huntsmen’ bit in Episode 1, and then when push came to shove leave a good chunk of the population to fend for themselves.

Ironwood certainly tried his best in V7. But he also had a tragic flaw, and that was being self-sacrificing in a way that was almost insistent on him being a hero. A sort of, “I love you, and that’s why I must do THIS for you, and I know THIS is good because it requires me sacrificing something, so you should be grateful.” thing.
Think of it as a dad who keeps toiling away at giving you that baked casserole that you don’t really want, because you are his child, and so he puts in that work out of parental love, yes, but also out of a need to be your provider. So when you don’t want the casserole, a resentment builds up. This sort of thing is subtle, but it’s believable, and is actually a really complex sort of flaw also tied to Ironwood’s good qualities.

But what makes Ironwood a good character is how his story is almost completely tied to the main conflict of Oz V Salem. You don’t really get Ironwood without Salem vs Oz. Ironwood wouldn’t be acting in the way he is if it weren’t for his knowledge of her (and how it evolves) and the events of Beacon. He is one of the only characters to have active opinions about the salem vs. oz war and go their own way.

The outcome of that story has huge repercussions on him as a character. But you can’t say this about rwbyjnr, who act more like bystanders that throw wrenches in the plans of the major players (Ironwood, Oz, Salem) by chasing macguffins and sometimes stumbling into character arcs along the way. You can get them all as virtually the same characters even if the Main Plot turned out to be something entirely different; the same is not true for Ironwood.

He’s also a great villain because it feels like he really does fit in the world of rwby specifically. With the grimm and Salem, it makes sense that quite a few people that think like him would exist. Grimm being attracted to negativity means that “negativity” per say is something that differs in amount means some measure, you can simply judge things based on how many anti-hedons they produce. No need for “philosophical nonsense” like equality or some such; the world has already answered these questions for you. A valid extension of this line of thinking is that throwing Mantle in the trash is perfectly justified if the negativity produced by the people of Mantle doesn’t outweigh the negativity produced as a result of Salem’s plan succeeding... which... surprise! Is the conclusion Ironwood comes to.
 
Glorious Absolution said:
I specifically said that I liked where he ended in Volume 7, I hated how Volume 8 handled it. What Ironwood actually did wrong was neglect Mantle, taking shit from them, enforcing curfews instead of updating security not fixing the wall, the whole ‘unlicensed huntsmen’ bit in Episode 1, and then when push came to shove leave a good chunk of the population to fend for themselves.

Ironwood certainly tried his best in V7. But he also had a tragic flaw, and that was being self-sacrificing in a way that was almost insistent on him being a hero. A sort of, “I love you, and that’s why I must do THIS for you, and I know THIS is good because it requires me sacrificing something, so you should be grateful.” thing.
Think of it as a dad who keeps toiling away at giving you that baked casserole that you don’t really want, because you are his child, and so he puts in that work out of parental love, yes, but also out of a need to be your provider. So when you don’t want the casserole, a resentment builds up. This sort of thing is subtle, but it’s believable, and is actually a really complex sort of flaw also tied to Ironwood’s good qualities.

But what makes Ironwood a good character is how his story is almost completely tied to the main conflict of Oz V Salem. You don’t really get Ironwood without Salem vs Oz. Ironwood wouldn’t be acting in the way he is if it weren’t for his knowledge of her (and how it evolves) and the events of Beacon. He is one of the only characters to have active opinions about the salem vs. oz war and go their own way.

The outcome of that story has huge repercussions on him as a character. But you can’t say this about rwbyjnr, who act more like bystanders that throw wrenches in the plans of the major players (Ironwood, Oz, Salem) by chasing macguffins and sometimes stumbling into character arcs along the way. You can get them all as virtually the same characters even if the Main Plot turned out to be something entirely different; the same is not true for Ironwood.

He’s also a great villain because it feels like he really does fit in the world of rwby specifically. With the grimm and Salem, it makes sense that quite a few people that think like him would exist. Grimm being attracted to negativity means that “negativity” per say is something that differs in amount means some measure, you can simply judge things based on how many anti-hedons they produce. No need for “philosophical nonsense” like equality or some such; the world has already answered these questions for you. A valid extension of this line of thinking is that throwing Mantle in the trash is perfectly justified if the negativity produced by the people of Mantle doesn’t outweigh the negativity produced as a result of Salem’s plan succeeding... which... surprise! Is the conclusion Ironwood comes to.
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I feel you misunderstand @The Demon Pimp of Razgriz point. Ironwood did literally nothing wrong. I understand what you are saying, but you sound like your trying to say Ironwood did something wrong.

He flat out didn't, hell its hard to find a better way to do things that would lead to a better outcome other than just arresting team RWBY on the spot instead of trusting them with critical information they blabbed to a hostile unknown about for basically no reason.

Otherwise everything else you said makes sense.
 
Glorious Absolution said:
What Ironwood actually did wrong was neglect Mantle, taking shit from them, enforcing curfews instead of updating security not fixing the wall, the whole ‘unlicensed huntsmen’ bit in Episode 1, and then when push came to shove leave a good chunk of the population to fend for themselves.
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Even that is justifiable within the confines of the story. Resources are finite, as is time and manpower. Getting Amity Coliseum into space took up the bulk of the resources, protecting Atlas was prioritized over everything else, because ATLAS not MANTLE is the capital of the kingdom, so protecting it would of course take priority. Plus, if Atlas falls, Mantle would be destroyed anyway. This is the main point of what Ironwood was trying to get to RWBY. You can't save everything, and if you try to save everything, you will end up saving nothing. Sometimes, you have to make hard choices. Ironwood, based on the situation, did literally nothing wrong, and Team RWBY never offered any real viable alternative, and even agreed with his plan to prioritize getting Amity Coliseum into the air. The story had them oppose him because it needed him to be the villain, not because it made sense to make him the villain.
 
well damn this OP covered everything. Except that criticizing their God, Monty Oum and pointing out any flaws that the franchise has like the unpolished cell shading (and how to improve it with examples,) and that it was in fact a shitty MMD animation originally before Rooster Teeth Acquired it will send most of them sperging out into death spirals with the amount of mental gynmastics and ban hammer swings they will attempt to unleash upon you on any platform they control.
 
Nick Gurs said:
well damn this OP covered everything. Except that criticizing their God, Monty Oum and pointing out any flaws that the franchise has like the unpolished cell shading (and how to improve it with examples,) and that it was in fact a shitty MMD animation originally before Rooster Teeth Acquired it will send most of them sperging out into death spirals with the amount of mental gynmastics and ban hammer swings they will attempt to unleash upon you on any platform they control.
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You want to see hostility? Go onto the official RWBY subreddit and say that General Ironwood did nothing wrong in Volume 8. I guarantee at least one person will misuse the term "fascist" in their rebuttal.
 
Chilson said:
He flat out didn't, hell its hard to find a better way to do things that would lead to a better outcome other than just arresting team RWBY on the spot instead of trusting them with critical information they blabbed to a hostile unknown about for basically no reason.
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I mean, he still treated Mantle like garbage, and the whole point the show is making is “don’t give up in the face of horrible odds,” so from a meta perspective Ironwood was doing plenty wrong.
Not exactly a very original point to make, and it gets muddled when the show introduces conflict that fundamentally can’t be solved with holding hands and singing kumbaya like the Faunus subplot, but still.
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
Even that is justifiable within the confines of the story. Resources are finite, as is time and manpower. Getting Amity Coliseum into space took up the bulk of the resources, protecting Atlas was prioritized over everything else, because ATLAS not MANTLE is the capital of the kingdom, so protecting it would of course take priority. Plus, if Atlas falls, Mantle would be destroyed anyway. This is the main point of what Ironwood was trying to get to RWBY. You can't save everything, and if you try to save everything, you will end up saving nothing. Sometimes, you have to make hard choices. Ironwood, based on the situation, did literally nothing wrong, and Team RWBY never offered any real viable alternative, and even agreed with his plan to prioritize getting Amity Coliseum into the air. The story had them oppose him because it needed him to be the villain, not because it made sense to make him the villain.
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The really weird part about this is that the Volume 7 commentary agrees with that sentiment a bit.
Miles: Yeah. And you get such a sense for how, like.. yes, you could probably argue that some of this is his own doing, but like.. you can tell that he feels, in his mind, he is backed into a corner and doing the only sensible thing.
Kerry: And we- we talked about this in chapter 11: he’s not completely wrong.
Eddy: Yeah.
Miles: Yeah, like he’s not- he’s doing what he thinks is best and that’s the hard thing is - when you have, different entities or organizations that all think that they’re doing the quote unquote ‘right thing’ or the quote unquote best thing’.. and there’s not always a very clear way to prove who’s right or who’s wrong.
Eddy: Right.
Miles: You can argue it all day but.. it’s hard, sometimes to.. look at something that happens in life and say like, oh that’s 100% what needed to happen.
Kerry: Yeah you’re prioritising pros and cons and that’s just- it’s just, subjective by- by nature.
Eddy: [Inaudible].
Miles: Winter on the other hand- oh go ahead Eddy.
Eddy: I said we knew it’d be divisive too-
Miles: Yeah.
Kerry: Yeah.
Eddy: We knew that there would be people that were gonna be firmly in different camps.
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I’m not sure just what the hell happened between this commentary and Volume 8, but it certainly did follow through on this.
 
Glorious Absolution said:
I mean, he still treated Mantle like garbage, and the whole point the show is making is “don’t give up in the face of horrible odds,” so from a meta perspective Ironwood was doing plenty wrong.
Not exactly a very original point to make, and it gets muddled when the show introduces conflict that fundamentally can’t be solved with holding hands and singing kumbaya like the Faunus subplot, but still.

The really weird part about this is that the Volume 7 commentary agrees with that sentiment a bit.

I’m not sure just what the hell happened between this commentary and Volume 8, but it certainly did follow through on this.
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The only issue is that Kerry is dead wrong about it being "subjective" in this situation. You either sacrifice Atlas for Mantle, a shit hole filled with shitty people that will be destroyed anyway if Atlas falls. Or you save Atlas and get as many people as you can from Mantle into Atlas (with the bonus of re-establishing world communications & fucking over Salem's plans for years if not centuries at the very least).

There is no subjectivity here, you either lose everything or save something. The only reason it "worked out" for team RWBY was a fucking macguffin that summoned a deus ex machina. Even then, most people in this thread have repeatedly reiterated why this left all the people they "saved" in a more dire position.
 
Glorious Absolution said:
I’m going to be completely honest, Ironwood turning out the way he did in Volume 7 was perfectly fine.
For fuck’s sake, the guy was in charge of the one military power on the planet, and the Headmaster of a Huntsman academy, and held a spot on the council (later two). That’s an assload of power for one guy to handle, and as the old saying goes, power corrupt. The fact that he had authoritarian tendencies certainly didn’t help matters much.
But then instead of addressing the issue that lead to this problem in the first place, CRWBY decides to say, “Ironwood’s not a villain because he’s an authoritarian and neglected Mantle, he’s a villain because he didn’t Trust Love(tm) ~uwu~” and turn him into a puppy-kicking evil Saturday morning cartoon villain who’s Oh So Manipulativ! All while FNDM insists Robyn or Winter in charge would have fixed everything.
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Not really
They never really explained what any of this nonsense is. We know they have a council but not how many seats it has or what they do, and the political word building doesn't make sense when you actually look at it (Ironwood has Two Seats! The other seats are all elected but for some reason his isn't! He was appointed his! By who? Nobody knows!). The Headmasters should logically be part of the military or police in the first place and its not really clear why they're separate organizations, and the Headmaster was basically under Oz until his death rather than being a position of power in itself. We don't get enough worldbuilding about what the nations are or how big everything is so it looks like he basically just has a seat on the city council given their army seems to number in the dozens.

Like people are fine with the President commanding an army and leading the country with other branches of government and it isn't like he has more power than that. He doesn't mind being under other people's command and was fine taking orders from Oz and the council until everyone was dying. He only ended up doing Martial Law in a situation that reasonably called for it given there was an army literally on their doorstep.

Despite everything I liked Ironwood as a villain. His motivation an actions all made sense until volume 8 basically. I think you misunderstand the fact that a lot of Ironwood's love comes from the fact that he didn't agree with the protagonist and was set up as a reasonable antagonist.

Glorious Absolution said:
I mean, he still treated Mantle like garbage, and the whole point the show is making is “don’t give up in the face of horrible odds,” so from a meta perspective Ironwood was doing plenty wrong.
Not exactly a very original point to make, and it gets muddled when the show introduces conflict that fundamentally can’t be solved with holding hands and singing kumbaya like the Faunus subplot, but still.
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He didn't do that either. All he really did was not build a wall. He had Penny, the Ace Ops, and an army of robots to defend it from all the grim that snuck in. He had RWBY help protect mantle when they showed up. He didn't abandon it until he came up with the rocket to the moon plan. Everything up to that was perfectly reasonable. Everyone just acts like the army of robots is a bad thing for no clear reason.
 
WinchesterPremium said:
Not really
They never really explained what any of this nonsense is. We know they have a council but not how many seats it has or what they do, and the political word building doesn't make sense when you actually look at it (Ironwood has Two Seats! The other seats are all elected but for some reason his isn't! He was appointed his! By who? Nobody knows!). The Headmasters should logically be part of the military or police in the first place and its not really clear why they're separate organizations, and the Headmaster was basically under Oz until his death rather than being a position of power in itself. We don't get enough worldbuilding about what the nations are or how big everything is so it looks like he basically just has a seat on the city council given their army seems to number in the dozens.
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There's also the whole question of who Ironwood even answers to as a general. Is there no King or President of Atlas for him to consult?
 
WinchesterPremium said:
He didn't do that either. All he really did was not build a wall. He had Penny, the Ace Ops, and an army of robots to defend it from all the grim that snuck in. He had RWBY help protect mantle when they showed up. He didn't abandon it until he came up with the rocket to the moon plan. Everything up to that was perfectly reasonable. Everyone just acts like the army of robots is a bad thing for no clear reason.
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That damn wall is such bullshit. Ironwood isn't the only council member, how is it solely his responsibility to get a hole in the wall fixed? Is there no one in Mantle who can patch it up? Does Amity really take up the same materials to the point that they can't patch the wall with something else? Does Robyn not take any blame for apparently stealing these supplies from Ironwood's men multiple times and yet doing nothing with them? For fuck's sake, Weiss can easily produce a giant wall of ice with a couple of dust rounds (nothing to do with her semblance), but you're telling me the technological capital of fantasy land couldn't pull off something similar?

Then again, this is the same Government where apparently no other officials thought to have any oversight or details on Ironwood's amity project until Jac-ass asked "Wait, why don't we, the highest positions of Government, have access to information about where our resources are going?"
 
EF7D1FE3-3ED9-4899-8421-0BB3AE87EB15.png 9EC92BA3-C308-4A1A-BB7D-3BCB4E723C26.png
Move along, nothing to see here.
 
TheAmbiguousLurker said:
Does Robyn not take any blame for apparently stealing these supplies from Ironwood's men multiple times and yet doing nothing with them?
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I think it was a more, “fix the wall, and we give this shit back” blackmail sort of deal, but the show does so little to actually flesh out the whole Atlas/Mantle situation it just rings hollow.
Then FNDM insists that barely doing anything to show Mantle’s shit situation works for the “twist” that Ironwood was never a good person and “abusing” Mantle all along.
 
TheClorax said:
I think it was a more, “fix the wall, and we give this shit back” blackmail sort of deal, but the show does so little to actually flesh out the whole Atlas/Mantle situation it just rings hollow.
Then FNDM insists that barely doing anything to show Mantle’s shit situation works for the “twist” that Ironwood was never a good person and “abusing” Mantle all along.
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Daily reminder that the Fall of Atlas and Mantle was entirely Ruby and her Silver Eye cult's damn fault, and blamed Ironwood for it because CRWBY wants a Military Allegory to shit on.
 
firestoopscience said:
Daily reminder that the Fall of Atlas and Mantle was entirely Ruby and her Silver Eye cult's damn fault, and blamed Ironwood for it because CRWBY wants a Military Allegory to shit on.
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Daily reminder that RWBY and friends are self-righteous blithering retards who actively help Salem at every turn.

Ironwood actually did nothing wrong.
 
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