Shitty Alternate History Thread - If only the Romans had AK-47's they would've survived...

[Justsomecicada]

The best CSA scenario I’ve seen had them becoming a giant slave powered narco state. Not that it was plausible or whatever, it was just cool

 

[draggs]

The best CSA scenario I’ve seen had them becoming a giant slave powered narco state. Not that it was plausible or whatever, it was just cool

I want an alternate history where the CSA loses in the American south, but instead of remaining to submit to Union rule and reconstruction, the slaveowners go on a filibuster to Brazil and take it over along with most of the Caribbean islands. In the 20th century the giant slave narcostate CSB and the USA fight tooth and nail for supremacy of the western hemisphere

An alternate history scenario I would love to see explored is seeing how the Confederacy would survive and industrialize if they won the Civil War. Many stories usually follow the same beats of "Confederacy remains an agrarian backwater until the US comes back to defeat and retake the South."

This ignores how, in a timeline where the South managed to win and remain independent, they would have created a separate national identity that would chaff at being subsumed back into the United States, basically the equivalent of thinking the British could have taken back the United States in the War of 1812 and they would happily return to being British subjects and ignore the years of independence and nationhood.

Many stories also keep the Confederacy as a agrarian backwater, saying that slavery would cripple any industrialization that could occur, leaving them dependent on Cotton and other agricultural products.

This usually ignores that the Confederacy can mimic different actions under taken by other nations in real life with the resources they have, namely Texas Oil and large labor group seen as less than human (slaves).

With Texas Oil, the Confederacy can basically become a Petrostate, using their oil for wealth and industrialization when inevitably agriculture can't keep up. It can also have story elements from the Petrostates in real life, that corruption and the fluctuating price of oil messing with development and living conditions of the country.

Another way the Confederacy could go is that third world cheap labor. As we see in real life, many companies would close facilities in America that would have to pay a high wage to American workers and instead go to a third world nation and operate a factory that pays pennies to the labor force (and not have to worry about labor conditions and safety).

With the Confederacy, they have the conditions to mimic and exploit that greed. You can see Northern companies closing factories in Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Michigan and instead getting their products made in the South on the cheap by factories operated by slaves. Society in the Confederacy already see slaves as less than human, and it would be ironic that the "industrial" North would go to the "agrarian" South for cheaper labor for factories.

Just some ideas I had on the topic.

That's Turtledove's Southern Victory series. The CSA doesn't industrialize AS MUCH as the USA, but by WW1 and again for WW2 the South has multiple large industrial centers (Atlanta, Birmingham, Richmond) and several smaller ones (Dallas-Forth Worth, Houston, Tennessee river valley, Huntsville, Roanoke river valley, Lousiana coast/New Orleans) and exploits the oil and gas in Oklahoma (until the USA takes it away from them in WW1) and Texas. It also buys Sonora and Chihuahua states from Mexico in 1881 and imports lots of Mexican labor after WW1

But the hatred between the two countries precludes much "offshoring" of manufacturing from the USA to CSA, they both wanted domestic industrial bases so they could gear up for war with each other at any time

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I love how leftists always end up accidentally creating a dystopia in their power fantasy scenarios

View attachment 6395114

Lol, because of course a literal communist USA will just naturally progress to today's left-wing ideology. How incredibly lazy. I guess they have to be lest they realize that capitalism was a major factor in the civil rights movement and anti-racism because capitalism recognizes only money and markets, not race. Or realize that communist countries never have things like "affirmative action" and ethnic minorities in communist countries mostly just exist in their own autonomous areas.

What the actual fuck: that’s just modern woke ideology, which I guess shouldn’t be surprising considering the commentary, but which is totally inconsistent with actual communist countries’ ideology (when it comes to themselves, as opposed to destabilizing their enemies).

The only communist state I'm aware of that ever preached anything close to an abject hatred for its self was Maoist China during the Cultural Revolution. And even that wasn't entirely the case since the Cultural Revolution persecuted ethnic minorities too under the same principle of calling them part of the "Four Olds".

Every other communist state has eventually ended up some flavor of nationalist. Some even started that way like Pol Pot who was inspired by the medieval Khmer Empire.

 

[JJLiautaud]

Are any of you guys fans of the Assiti shards books?

 

[Summertime]

I think this is the most appropiate thread to bring up this topic: Pixel world map games (some examples are pixelplanet.fun, pixmap,fun, and pixelya.fun, but there's so much more online games like that).

They are simple games modelled after Reddit's r/place, in which users can place pixels every 7 seconds (sometimes less or more) to create collaborative pixel art, particularly on a world map instead of a free canvas. The players often organize themselves in "factions", typically representing a country or a region. Obviously some of the works in these games are pretty good, but it's also a cesspool of shitty alternate history autism, underage countryballs fans, American neo-nazi admins, porn artists, and people who spend their entire day placing pixels on those games (basically addiction). To me the most baffling part about these games is that the players take these pixel wars way too seriously and are willing to spend hours doing that, sometimes even skipping school or other daily life stuff. The original r/place from Reddit is only avaiable for a limited time on special ocassions like Aprils' Fools Day, and it's easy to see why; preventing people from getting addicted.

For more context, these games are often raided by Soyjak Party as well, for example one time they targeted troon art, and they create their own murals on PixelPlanet.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

The best CSA scenario I’ve seen had them becoming a giant slave powered narco state. Not that it was plausible or whatever, it was just cool

So it just became Harlan County, Kentucky as a full empire


Since we're speaking of Leftists being retards, the early Communists very much venerated the Founding Fathers and analogized the struggle for political democracy with the struggle for "industrial democracy."

As usual some faggot progshit is projecting their own ideas onto the past. The Socialists (back when it was, indeed, Socialists and not DSA/radical Democrats) and like would have placed the story of the American Revolution front and center in their national mythology and the Second American Revolution as a completion of the first. That's how it was intended, a completion, not a negation.

I hate libtards and would like to kill some with a bayonet in Minecraft.

They weren't actual Communists as such, but the Blair Mountain insurgents fought under the US flag which they saw as being their own flag.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

An alternate history scenario I would love to see explored is seeing how the Confederacy would survive and industrialize if they won the Civil War. Many stories usually follow the same beats of "Confederacy remains an agrarian backwater until the US comes back to defeat and retake the South."

This ignores how, in a timeline where the South managed to win and remain independent, they would have created a separate national identity that would chaff at being subsumed back into the United States, basically the equivalent of thinking the British could have taken back the United States in the War of 1812 and they would happily return to being British subjects and ignore the years of independence and nationhood.

Many stories also keep the Confederacy as a agrarian backwater, saying that slavery would cripple any industrialization that could occur, leaving them dependent on Cotton and other agricultural products.

This usually ignores that the Confederacy can mimic different actions under taken by other nations in real life with the resources they have, namely Texas Oil and large labor group seen as less than human (slaves).

With Texas Oil, the Confederacy can basically become a Petrostate, using their oil for wealth and industrialization when inevitably agriculture can't keep up. It can also have story elements from the Petrostates in real life, that corruption and the fluctuating price of oil messing with development and living conditions of the country.

Another way the Confederacy could go is that third world cheap labor. As we see in real life, many companies would close facilities in America that would have to pay a high wage to American workers and instead go to a third world nation and operate a factory that pays pennies to the labor force (and not have to worry about labor conditions and safety).

With the Confederacy, they have the conditions to mimic and exploit that greed. You can see Northern companies closing factories in Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Michigan and instead getting their products made in the South on the cheap by factories operated by slaves. Society in the Confederacy already see slaves as less than human, and it would be ironic that the "industrial" North would go to the "agrarian" South for cheaper labor for factories.

Just some ideas I had on the topic.

I think the Confederates are actually a decent candidate for industrialization. It is totally possible to do with slavery, too. Douglas Blackmon's Slavery by Another Name lays out how it was starting in the immediate leadup to the war and how it took off in Alabama's Nickajack (using the vagrancy law-arrest-fine worker-sell them cycle).

There's a mixture of Texan oil, Appalachian coal, Appalachian (Alabama) iron. I don't know that there's any copper. Later on there's Gulf oil. There's Tennessee Valley hydropower. Historically the New South revolved around cotton mills, basically just growing into what the North used to do (like wearing hand-me-downs) as the North became even more technologically/industrially advanced.

The biggest obstacle is probably the Confederates themselves for as long as they are married to their free trade ideology. But there's no reason to think that they would be. What will not happen is an end to slavery. It would be an industrial slavery.

One problem with comparing historical forced industrial labor to literal chattel slavery is that the former was unrealistically cheap as they were random people being scooped up instead of prized capital goods. To try to industrialize the nation as a whole they'd have to be treated with reasonable conditions and that's going to put a break on how much work you can squeeze out of them.

I think that the South could have wound up being an interesting laboratory for bizarro ideologies the rest of the world never gets, particularly experiments in applying George Fitzhugh's ideas (slavery as the very best form of socialism, reforming slavery to be more humane but extending it to poor Whites as well) and nationalizing slavery as a form of majority-only socialism/fascism.

 

[JJLiautaud]

There's a mixture of Texan oil, Appalachian coal, Appalachian (Alabama) iron. I don't know that there's any copper.

Alabama has some, down near Morrison Crossroads.

 

[The beast]

Or realize that communist countries never have things like "affirmative action"

The early Soviet Union did had a form of affirmative action with the Korenizatsiia policy. Although for the record it ended in the 30s.

 

[Swordstick]

Re: Industralized Slavery. *Decades of Darkness* covered this pretty well and despite being written by an Australian was rather good. The “bad guys” win but the ending is the

Spoiler

invention of mechanized cotton-picking

which of course is massive depression level bad news for the victors, but I doubt enough to actually change the racial caste society they’ve built.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Here me out.


Was.

The Yiddish Policeman's Union.

Possibly an inspiration for Disco Elysium?

 

[winderson_silva]

Hear me out: Since, contrary to belief, islamic and chinese regions were afflicted just as (if not worse) than Europe by the black death, what about a reverse Year of Rice and Salt?
Pretty much all of the former Mongol Empire, North Africa and the ME is wiped by the black death, how would the europeans and the people from adjacent areas (Sahei, Jurchen, etc) would do?

 

[Justsomecicada]

Here me out.


Was.

The Yiddish Policeman's Union.

Possibly an inspiration for Disco Elysium?

I always thought it was, is it not?

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

Hear me out: Since, contrary to belief, islamic and chinese regions were afflicted just as (if not worse) than Europe by the black death, what about a reverse Year of Rice and Salt?
Pretty much all of the former Mongol Empire, North Africa and the ME is wiped by the black death, how would the europeans and the people from adjacent areas (Sahei, Jurchen, etc) would do?

Russians and Japanese get some of Mainland China and give other Europeon powers trouble when trying to take India, Indochina and the Pacific?

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Maybe Japan would end up taking over China as a foreign dynasty similar to what the mongols did?

 

[Caddo Cobgang]

interesting, so there was actually a plan in Germany for a more moderate peace with Russia so they could focus fully on the Western Front, but Ludendorff and the OHL shot it down, assuming Germany can keep the US out of the War they might be able to fully commit to the Western Front earlier then 1917, if the Central Powers win I could easily see the new puppet states in Germany being ruled by German Princes, an annexation of Belgium and a portion of Northern France by Germany,and Serbia being divided between Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria

 

[MoarTard]

Ian sperged out when upgrading the forum to Xenforo 2, although the opening post mentioned new features, users gave overall negative feedback for the changes. I've tried archiving the page, but it takes me to a login screen as it's located within the help section. Although I've got a screenshot of how Ian usually responds.

Spoiler: Ian's response

Also Ian banned invites to a discord server due to a "doxing".

What supposedly went down was that a user that got kicked sent a picture of Ian wearing an offensive t-shirt, and then Ian convinced himself that there as a conspiracy against him from one of the alternate history discords. Multiple people who called out Ian were banned.

The photo is floating around somewhere amongst older users of the websites. Does anyone happen to have it by any chance?

I think this was the shirt

https://tshirthell.com/products/slavery-gets-shit-done-mens-t-shirt

Spoiler: located in the Political Chat section

Edit: To avoid double posting, I saw an older post on this thread asking about CalBear.

Has anyone got the dox on that faggoty mod Calbear yet? He comes off as such an unpleasant and smug piece of shit from his posts on the Alternate History Forums, especially on the ones where he bans people.

This might be of some use, some of it is from parts of the site where you need an account. This website is a pain in the ass to archive, it won't cooperate with me. I'm new to archiving.

Spoiler: Birthyear, Irish Grandmother

Checked the Amazon for his TL, name is Jon Kacer

I tried looking him up on whitepages, and I think this might be him? I could be wrong.

https://www.whitepages.com/name/Jon-P-Kacer/San-Jose-CA/PwyDJlRO28W

Happy Halloween.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

What supposedly went down was that a user that got kicked sent a picture of Ian wearing an offensive t-shirt, and then Ian convinced himself that there as a conspiracy against him from one of the alternate history discords. Multiple people who called out Ian were banned.

I watched when it went down. Ian banned like 20 people. But to be fair, he did have a point because the Discord server was turbo nutjob far-left and convinced themselves that an old picture of Ian wearing that shirt meant he was a secret Nazi out to ban all troons and minorities from the site, and they decided to more or less tell him that on the thread. Sucks nowadays that the political chat section archives after 1 year, specifically because Ian doesn't want people digging up decade-old posts with wrongthink in them for "cancel culture."

The photo is floating around somewhere amongst older users of the websites. Does anyone happen to have it by any chance?

Yep, earlier in this thread, it's great.

If you told me this guy was a /pol/ or A&H poster I'd believe you. He sure does hate Israel like one lol

 

[MoarTard]

I love how leftists always end up accidentally creating a dystopia in their power fantasy scenarios

Which timeline is this from, Is this from the Reds! timeline?

I watched when it went down. Ian banned like 20 people. But to be fair, he did have a point because the Discord server was turbo nutjob far-left and convinced themselves that an old picture of Ian wearing that shirt meant he was a secret Nazi out to ban all troons and minorities from the site, and they decided to more or less tell him that on the thread.

Any particular people from that server stick out in craziness?

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Any particular people from that server stick out in craziness?

I was never a member because I don't use Discord. I just sat back on the sidelines since I noticed one day a bunch of people showing up banned all of a sudden and checked in on an evolving shitshow of several days. Like the first page or two IIRC was Ian sperging out and then the Discord members calling him a racist sexist fascist and posting that picture and shit. Incredible stuff, a meltdown from multiple angles.

I kind of feel bad for Ian, because he's said a few times how annoying his site can be (and how he doesn't even post outside of the political forum anymore). Plus how he's slowly killing his own site because he's not far left enough for zoomers, gradually is banning long-time leftists for wrongthink like wanting to kill all Trump voters or not being critical enough about Israel, and of course is too far-left for everyone else. But then I recall that he made his bed and he will lie in it until he dies. Sucks to be him. Hope there can one day be an alternate history site that isn't far-left insanity, but you just know if there ever was an AH.com alternative it would make Ian's site look positively moderate.