- Joined
- Nov 30, 2022
Will Ian get the fuck off his ass and fix the fucking HTTPS of his website already? This is fucking embarassing.
Shitty Alternate History Thread - If only the Romans had AK-47's they would've survived...
- Thread starter ICametoLurk
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Will Ian get the fuck off his ass and fix the fucking HTTPS of his website already? This is fucking embarassing.
Sargon's wife's son
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2019
I do love the communists screaming that they could totally have destroyed Hitler even though they were being pushed back on absolutely every single fund and we're losing about 10 soldiers to everyone German the Soviets will guard awful soldiers during the Second World War and if it wasn't for the United states entry the Soviets would eventually sued for peace
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2017
As long as the USSR was getting supplies from the US and UK by way of the Arctic, Iran, and Siberia, Turkey remained neutral, and Finland remained uncommitted to advancing beyond Karelia, the Soviets had a great chance to win. Hell, Germany couldn't even decide on a coherent occupation policy since some wanted Generalplan Ost naonaonao and others like Rosenberg wanted to ally with anti-communist Russians. Hitler also had an autistic dislike of Armenians and a weird Muslim fetish so all the Georgians and especially Armenians (who he thought were crypto-Jews because a lot were historically merchants) never joined up either. Beside, most of the garbage generals in the Soviet army was progressively filtered out from 1939-1942 letting the capable commanders rise to the top. At that point, it was very difficult for Germany to win because, well, look at the distance from the 1939 German borders at Memel to Moscow or Stalingrad, and then remember that most Soviet industry and resource extraction had gotten removed to the Urals even further back.
If anything, Germany overperforned since Stalin did not commit to defending areas that actually were defensible and cost himself industry and manpower.
Sargon's wife's son
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2019
It was American bombing that was keeping most of the German reserves on flag duty that made the Germans not be able to supply their troops with enough anti tank ammo and other such supplies as well as paralyzing the logistics the Soviets were already losing.
Also all of the Soviet high command is the most overrated generals of World War 2 only more overrated general of World War 2 than zukov is Bernard Montgomery luckily he died in disgrace because his last great plan got over 5000 people killed unnecessarily.
But modern Soviet narrative shifters will constantly claim that they were totally winning guys and they didn't need land lease even though all of the Soviet high command at the time said if it wasn't for the Americans we would have lost even Marshall zukov
Briananderson1138
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2022
The recent reference to Phillip Roth on the Dumb Shit on Wikipedia thread reminded me of his venture into the alternate history novel with The Plot Against America. If you were to guess whether a novel where Charles Lindbergh is elected president in 1940 and keeps America isolationist would be about
A. The political intrigue of a new president opposed to Roosevelt coming to power, and questions about where his interests and policies lie as regard the European and Asiatic powers involved in the new war
and
B. How the alternate World War II develops in a military sense; how the various battles play out differently and how strategy and weapon development differ
or whether it would be about
C. Self indulgent retrospection on the author’s childhood and the New York Jewish community of the 40’s, with particular emphasis on how Lindbergh and his associates want them to assimilate into American society and how this is mean
Then you would almost certainly guess wrong and choose A and B.
My god, did this book totally and completely fail to focus on the interesting part of this premise, or even really use it. I suppose that if I were a self-interested New York Jew then I would probably hail it as a marvel, but fortunately I’m not.
SPOILER ALERT:
The worse single aspect of the book is almost certainly that it ends with Lindbergh crashing his plane in the ocean and going missing, Roosevelt being reinstated, and the War proceeding as normal. You sir, Mr. Roth, receive four million demerits for creating an alternate timeline and then totally failing to use it effectively! A pox on you!
A. The political intrigue of a new president opposed to Roosevelt coming to power, and questions about where his interests and policies lie as regard the European and Asiatic powers involved in the new war
and
B. How the alternate World War II develops in a military sense; how the various battles play out differently and how strategy and weapon development differ
or whether it would be about
C. Self indulgent retrospection on the author’s childhood and the New York Jewish community of the 40’s, with particular emphasis on how Lindbergh and his associates want them to assimilate into American society and how this is mean
Then you would almost certainly guess wrong and choose A and B.
My god, did this book totally and completely fail to focus on the interesting part of this premise, or even really use it. I suppose that if I were a self-interested New York Jew then I would probably hail it as a marvel, but fortunately I’m not.
SPOILER ALERT:
The worse single aspect of the book is almost certainly that it ends with Lindbergh crashing his plane in the ocean and going missing, Roosevelt being reinstated, and the War proceeding as normal. You sir, Mr. Roth, receive four million demerits for creating an alternate timeline and then totally failing to use it effectively! A pox on you!
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2023
Regarding AH.com's Chat now that the dust has slightly settled, it's actually surprising seeing them forced to confront the reality that idpol is a big part of why they got costed the election.
I've never seen the echo chamber pierced like this, with people actually discussing how yeah maybe villainizing men in society is going to cost votes, that abandoning the working class in all forms is actually bad, that the left doesn't own every single minority or woman's vote, that Harris had no plan at all to campaign on, and that hey MAYBE people actually are suffering economically. What's really funny is seeing a bunch of the troons and far leftists shirk away for the time being with the sudden realization they were living in a fantasy world and The Youth/Da Kidz are actually based.
I suspect in time it'll go back to the insane, leftist, troonacy, idpol echo chamber much as I suspect those kinds of whiners are going to truly capture the Democratic party in general as things settle down. But for now, it's actually legitimately fascinating to see some actual discussion there as much as I've loved the salt mining.
I've never seen the echo chamber pierced like this, with people actually discussing how yeah maybe villainizing men in society is going to cost votes, that abandoning the working class in all forms is actually bad, that the left doesn't own every single minority or woman's vote, that Harris had no plan at all to campaign on, and that hey MAYBE people actually are suffering economically. What's really funny is seeing a bunch of the troons and far leftists shirk away for the time being with the sudden realization they were living in a fantasy world and The Youth/Da Kidz are actually based.
I suspect in time it'll go back to the insane, leftist, troonacy, idpol echo chamber much as I suspect those kinds of whiners are going to truly capture the Democratic party in general as things settle down. But for now, it's actually legitimately fascinating to see some actual discussion there as much as I've loved the salt mining.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2023
People still get the boot if they point that out. Imagine going away for seven days, simply because Ian doesn't like the truth. It's just sad it has come to this.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2023
I was pleasantly shocked to see Ian actually banning simps for male sexism and racist shitlibs raging about legal Latino/Arab voters abandoning Democrats the past week, but as things further settle down I'm seeing the usual gaggle of troons and White Dudes For Harris start to squawk up again and try to take over the forum culture once more.
Honestly? I think they will and this will be a microcosm of the Democrats' future woes. The virtue-signalers and crybullies have taken over enough institutions they will NOT give them up willingly, and as we've seen, their rank and file are a lot more sexist (to both sexes, somehow), racist (because how dare legal immigrants hate illegals or minorities get tired of empty pandering) and anti-working class (on Xitter the latest grievance posting is how the election'd go for people with degrees only, how dare poor people vote!) than anyone realized. It's no wonder the Democratic side of American political life lost this election and if things continue as they are, normal people of all stripes will continue abandoning them for everything from being the actual "-ists" to absolutely doing nothing to help the working or middle classes.
I really don't doubt there's tons of idiots and awful people on the GOP side as well, just in case anyone wondered. But a lot of people for a moment woke up to the above when it came to idpol, so it's been fascinating to see.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2023
Doesn't concern me much, I don't live in chat, thank god. The problem for me consists of the more reasonable people being drawn in and then getting the shaft, just because they're disgusted by insanity.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2023
That's fair. I already had my
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2022
Here's something you guys might get a laugh out of, from a Personal Lolcow of mine:
A post American Civil War AH scenario with real life races replaced by fantasy races.
The response to it was exactly what you're imagining.
A post American Civil War AH scenario with real life races replaced by fantasy races.
The response to it was exactly what you're imagining.
- Joined
- May 14, 2019
I feel like partitioning the alternate history thread just resulted in one dead thread and one active one, so I'm going to copy this over to here. If you don't like it, blow me (and report it).
I finished Cahokia Jazz. It's good.
The book is Francis Spufford's attempt to do The Yiddish Policemen's Union. It's nowhere near as good, but that's a tall order since YPU is on a higher plane than most books. It's also a detective novel set in an alternate American city where bizarre fusion cultures are in a state of ethnic conflict with religious symbolism playing a major role.
It is probably the most bizarrely niche (aimed right at me) book I've read, and that's including Alien in a Small Town. Unfortunately, it didn't hit as hard as it should have.
Alternate History Background
In this one the setting is a Cahokia that is heavily inspired by Jesuit Paraguay and the Kingdom of Hawaii's historical experience. It's revealed bit by bit and was the main thing that interested me, but it's not really a spoiler to give away any of it. The Mississippian civilization did not fall and early on the Jesuits from New Spain made contact, leading to this Indian state buried deep in the interior surviving.
In general, Francis Spufford seems to know a ton of obscure history, so I won't attribute his choices to ignorance. That said, the whole objective of the De Soto was to find a large Indian civilization to conquer, as was Virginia. In this setting that the Mississippians were effective at repelling early conquistadors or those expeditions never took place. How the fuck does the Union tolerate an Indian state joining on its own terms? This didn't bother me at the time, but that is an EXTREMELY rosy picture of the North, particularly as they were the ones who, in the aftermath of the War, prosecuted the genocidal wars of the Great Plains.
Cahokia quickly develops an artificial Aztec-based identity with a Catholic religion, even taking in Irish refugees. By the time of the War between the States it proactively joins the Union. Also, Alaska stays Russian, Oregon stays British and Deseret exists, since this is an alternate history novel and it's obligatory.
The Indians in this novel are always good boys who dindu nuffin. In real life most of the civilized Indians sided strongly with the Confederacy and were heavily involved in slavery. In this setting, though, no reference is made to Indian slavery or Cahokia's relationship to it.
Ultimately, this leads us up to the 1920s.
The Book
Cahokia in the 1920s, a reimagined Saint Louis, is a major metropolis and industrial/railroad hub with a mixing of three peoples, White, Black and Indian. The hero is a sometimes jazz piano player who, after World War I, has gotten a detective job with a friend made in the service, but he happens to stumble into this right as a race war is getting ready to kick off. It's American Midnight, it's A Fever in the Heartland. The Ku Klux Klan is in the prime of its power and they're making big plays to subvert the government of Cahokia, an Indian republic which the House of Hashi still rules as a traditional monarchy, entirely religious/ceremonial pull. A body has turned up, a White man gutted sacrificially in the Aztec style on a roof overlooking the Cahokia Mound.
I found the prose and plotting fairly good. It's not AS good as YPU, but it's pretty strong. It really got my attention with the Klan setting, references to labor radicals and Bolsheviks fighting the Russian Civil War in Alaska, President Harding, basically a 1920s setting that I have a huge interest in (rural American clash of socialism and proto-fascism) mixed with Indians (which already, historically, mixed in things like the Green Corn Rebellion).
Spufford never makes any reference to the Green Corn Rebellion or an alternate history counterpart to it, which seems like a very obvious thing to do.
I won't describe the plot, being what it is that could only spoil it. It's just executed competently. Well done. It takes a while for the characters to emerge as real people, but they do, especially at the very end. Compared to YPU it's a lot more high-stakes and political right from the get go, the significance of this murder is implied almost right off the bat and the threat of a Klan insurrection looms over the whole story. On the other hand, the city never quite felt like a real place. To some extent that's because of just how exotic it is, but Spufford just doesn't paint his picture all that well.
The ending bummed me out. These stories never have happy endings. The hero can save themselves, save the girl, save the city, you always have some kind of conflict like that and something gets sacrificed. I don't mind a sad ending, but there's an uncomfortable middle ground where it's decent enough that I do care but not so good that it's rich, if that makes sense? Written well enough to be genuinely sad without being moving enough to make the sad feel meaningful. Cruel.
I finished Cahokia Jazz. It's good.
The book is Francis Spufford's attempt to do The Yiddish Policemen's Union. It's nowhere near as good, but that's a tall order since YPU is on a higher plane than most books. It's also a detective novel set in an alternate American city where bizarre fusion cultures are in a state of ethnic conflict with religious symbolism playing a major role.
It is probably the most bizarrely niche (aimed right at me) book I've read, and that's including Alien in a Small Town. Unfortunately, it didn't hit as hard as it should have.
Alternate History Background
In this one the setting is a Cahokia that is heavily inspired by Jesuit Paraguay and the Kingdom of Hawaii's historical experience. It's revealed bit by bit and was the main thing that interested me, but it's not really a spoiler to give away any of it. The Mississippian civilization did not fall and early on the Jesuits from New Spain made contact, leading to this Indian state buried deep in the interior surviving.
In general, Francis Spufford seems to know a ton of obscure history, so I won't attribute his choices to ignorance. That said, the whole objective of the De Soto was to find a large Indian civilization to conquer, as was Virginia. In this setting that the Mississippians were effective at repelling early conquistadors or those expeditions never took place. How the fuck does the Union tolerate an Indian state joining on its own terms? This didn't bother me at the time, but that is an EXTREMELY rosy picture of the North, particularly as they were the ones who, in the aftermath of the War, prosecuted the genocidal wars of the Great Plains.
Cahokia quickly develops an artificial Aztec-based identity with a Catholic religion, even taking in Irish refugees. By the time of the War between the States it proactively joins the Union. Also, Alaska stays Russian, Oregon stays British and Deseret exists, since this is an alternate history novel and it's obligatory.
The Indians in this novel are always good boys who dindu nuffin. In real life most of the civilized Indians sided strongly with the Confederacy and were heavily involved in slavery. In this setting, though, no reference is made to Indian slavery or Cahokia's relationship to it.
Ultimately, this leads us up to the 1920s.
The Book
Cahokia in the 1920s, a reimagined Saint Louis, is a major metropolis and industrial/railroad hub with a mixing of three peoples, White, Black and Indian. The hero is a sometimes jazz piano player who, after World War I, has gotten a detective job with a friend made in the service, but he happens to stumble into this right as a race war is getting ready to kick off. It's American Midnight, it's A Fever in the Heartland. The Ku Klux Klan is in the prime of its power and they're making big plays to subvert the government of Cahokia, an Indian republic which the House of Hashi still rules as a traditional monarchy, entirely religious/ceremonial pull. A body has turned up, a White man gutted sacrificially in the Aztec style on a roof overlooking the Cahokia Mound.
I found the prose and plotting fairly good. It's not AS good as YPU, but it's pretty strong. It really got my attention with the Klan setting, references to labor radicals and Bolsheviks fighting the Russian Civil War in Alaska, President Harding, basically a 1920s setting that I have a huge interest in (rural American clash of socialism and proto-fascism) mixed with Indians (which already, historically, mixed in things like the Green Corn Rebellion).
Spufford never makes any reference to the Green Corn Rebellion or an alternate history counterpart to it, which seems like a very obvious thing to do.
I won't describe the plot, being what it is that could only spoil it. It's just executed competently. Well done. It takes a while for the characters to emerge as real people, but they do, especially at the very end. Compared to YPU it's a lot more high-stakes and political right from the get go, the significance of this murder is implied almost right off the bat and the threat of a Klan insurrection looms over the whole story. On the other hand, the city never quite felt like a real place. To some extent that's because of just how exotic it is, but Spufford just doesn't paint his picture all that well.
The ending bummed me out. These stories never have happy endings. The hero can save themselves, save the girl, save the city, you always have some kind of conflict like that and something gets sacrificed. I don't mind a sad ending, but there's an uncomfortable middle ground where it's decent enough that I do care but not so good that it's rich, if that makes sense? Written well enough to be genuinely sad without being moving enough to make the sad feel meaningful. Cruel.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2019
Worst timeline: Josh never takes over the Farms and instead buys a real farm. He grows all kinds of veggies. Raises animals. Meets a nice lady and settles down. The CWC forum fades away as is usual with niche sites. Josh is happy.
- Joined
- May 14, 2019
PS1gamenwatch
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2015
What if Mexico did join Germany in WW1, but instead of invading or attacking the US, they invade Central America or some of the smaller Carribean isles?
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2021
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2022
Perfect timing to return. It's been down for a while, I shut it down because I was away with personal matters and couldn't realistically oversee it. I tried handing it to a friend, but that didn't go well.
All in all, a failed experiment on my part. Sorry to disappoint.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2023
Is it just me or has Ian finally nuked his own site?
€: seriously, it's at least three hours now. What the fuck is going on...
€: seriously, it's at least three hours now. What the fuck is going on...
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Sargon's wife's son
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2019
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2023
It's happening again. At this point: consider taking your shit and leave.