Should the world censor Lolicon?

[Mothra1988]

I'm not american, I don't give a fuck what the scotus said.

Opinion discarded then I guess. I'll stick with 1st amendment and the idea that cartoons aren't people.

America used to censor obscenity and pornography. Free speech protections (assuming pornography can be counted as speech) actually started out more restrictive and the reach of the state has only shrunk as the years passed, the opposite of a slippery slope.

Stuff like the Hayes Code was bullshit and was rightfully discarded. I don't know how insane you have to be to pretned the slippely slope doesn't exist after everything that Kiwi Farms has gone through. If you don't think these people would throw everyone here in prision if they could get away with it, you are insane. The ONLY thing that prevents that is the 1st ammendment in the United States. Frankly, I want to live in a world where things like Kiwi Farms and 4chan can still exist and troons and other letoids can't send their preceived enemies to prison.

 

[ITK]

Stuff like the Hayes Code was bullshit and was rightfully discarded. I don't know how insane you have to be to pretned the slippely slope doesn't exist after everything that Kiwi Farms has gone through. If you don't think these people would throw everyone here in prision if they could get away with it, you are insane. The ONLY thing that prevents that is the 1st ammendment in the United States. Frankly, I want to live in a world where things like Kiwi Farms and 4chan can still exist and troons and other letoids can't send their preceived enemies to prison.

Obscenity isn't speech. Expression, even, isn't speech. Speech is speech. Whether lolicon is legal or not has nothing to do with protection of free speech in America, because they are not the same thing. Censorship of the former would give no legal precident of censorship of the latter, they are two completely seperate domains.

 

[Slobs]

Obscenity laws are fucking retarded and a guaranteed slippery slope. Just look at the UK for example:
First it's obscenity that gets banned, who wouldn't agree that there's plenty of things that simply aren't acceptable in public?
Then it's artistic expression, it stands to reason that just because something's a drawing that doesn't mean that it's okay to expose people to it.
After that it's speech, because hey it seems reasonable that people shouldn't be saying sick shit, or shouting "bomb" in the middle of an airport, right? Give it a few years and ideas like "hate speech" start popping up. The general public is more than comfortable enough with sending nasty, nasty racists to prison, and at this point it's an uphill battle to fight against that with all the precedents that have already been set.
Then by that point it's too late. People start gaming the system by hiding behind these laws and worse yet, by using them to silence you. Game over, you just insulted some fat faggot with bitch tits and now the local bobby is at your door ready to give you a worse jail sentence than the migrants going around raping children.

I'm not american, I don't give a fuck what the scotus said. If they defend child porn they can go fuck themselves too.



Child porn. What I don't like is child porn.

Why is it that CP defenders always use a roundabout way of refering to it? "Drawings" "Artwork" "Fictional images", they never actually spell out what the particular issue is.

Because it's not child porn, you overzealous retard. It's literally, by legal definition, not the same thing as a real picture, of a real child, that was really abused, that will suffer for life from that image existing, that requires someone to go out of their way to do evil shit to ensure that the image exists. Do you even know how frustrating it is hosting a website like a forum and being bombarded with urgent reports at 3am of child porn being present on your server, or God forbid having law enforcement knocking at your door, only to find out that it's just some weebshit scribble some coomer faggot downloaded from twitter?

Like I get where you're coming from, man. I've been posting on sites like 4chan for over a decade where autistic coomers, that very much are adjacent to real pedos, post sick disturbing shit. Sick disturbing shit that I'd agree can and has led to young developing men becoming actual genuine paedophiles. It also attracts real paedophiles like flies to shit, who use communities where that shit is present to network with other paedos, or worse yet to get their hands on young people and groom them. I really can't stress more that I agree with the sentiment that the content itself is repulsive, that it existing creates problems, and that the people who consume it are either fucked up to begin with or worse than that aren't fucked up at first but will become fucked up if they keep consuming it. That still doesn't make it the same thing, it creates problems and confusion by not differentiating the two, and it also doesn't justify using this content as a scapegoat to get shitty laws passed that absolutely will be used against you.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

It's literally, by legal definition

By legal definition if you identify as a woman you are one. So clearly, legal definitions don't mean shit and are completely malleable to society's whim.

If a drawing of 2 men fucking is gay porn, a drawing of kids being fucked is child porn. I don't see any value out of it being legal. There is no meaningful discussion to be had around it, and even if there was its long since been corrupted.

Do you even know how frustrating it is hosting a website like a forum and being bombarded with urgent reports at 3am of child porn being present on your server, or God forbid having law enforcement knocking at your door, only to find out that it's just some weebshit scribble some coomer faggot downloaded from twitter?

ok then ban the faggot and report him to law enfocement if they come knocking

Opinion discarded then I guess. I'll stick with 1st amendment and the idea that cartoons aren't people.

Notice what I said earlier, the pedo will literally use any word except what it actually is.

They'll call them "Drawings" "Artwork" "Fictional images" "cartoons" but never actually call a spade and spade and explicitly say that the subject of discussion is child porn.

 

[ffo kcuF]

/pol/ has rotted some of your brains, even the SCOTUS said you were wrong. You think you can pick and choose what free speech you want. It doesn't work that way. Slipperly slope is fucking real and as soon as you can send people to jail for fictional artowrk you don't like, you'll be sent to the slammer for your "problematic" beliefs. I don't know how hard this is to understand, again you think the UK where people get locked up for insulting troons or muslims is something to follow, becuase that's what happens when you erode free speech protections.

/pol/? lol. You're the one that sounds like a 4chan pedo, buddy.

SCOTUS, artwork, troons, muslims, slippery slope, free speech, fiction, constitution... anymore buzzwords you want to throw around?

Loli isn't free speech, loli isn't artwork, loli isn't comparable to any of those other things.

Loli/shota serves only one purpose in this world, and that is to give pedos access to pictures of sexualised children so they can get off, if it was banned tomorrow nobody would care, well except pedos of coarse. And banning loli won't be the catalyst to banning all freedoms lol, get a grip.

 

[Mothra1988]

loli isn't artwork

It litrally is, you dunce. You don't have to like it. I don't like loli at all. It's gross. But it's still a fucking drawing. You sound like an SJW trying to change the definition of words. "Hate speech isn't speech." Same exact shit. You don't have to like something for something to qualify as speech or art or a drawing, or whatever. That's not the point. The point is things you hate or find repulsive or morally objectionable can still be protected under free speech.

Frankly, I think the government has bigger problems to deal with than scribbles on paper made by reclusive weebs. They can't even get the human trafficking problem under control, something that involves real kids not just imaginary pretend ones, and the government is over-bloated as it is.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

It litrally is, you dunce.

"They also protected us from tyranny against the seizure of tasteful, artistic photographs of beautiful bodies."

"That same government wants to come into our home, tell us what is and what is not art? That's not right!"


Its not childporn you see, its tasteful artistic photos artwork.

 

[jertzog]

Short answer: No.
Long answer: It shouldn't be published outside of Japan by people trying to monetize Japanese porn for non-Japanese. It's part of their nerd culture and there are no indications that it contributes to child abuse there.

 

[ffo kcuF]

. The point is things you hate or find repulsive or morally objectionable can still be protected under free speech.

Drawings aren’t speech, you dunce.

Imagine fighting this hard to protect scribbles of naked children being abused.

You keep harping on about how drawings aren’t real, well duh!. No one is saying drawing are real buddy, lol. The sick people who create these drawings are real, the people who consume and enjoy these drawing are real, the growing community’s surrounding it is very real. These people are fucked in the head and should not be catered to, they ain’t just reclusive weebs wtf, they’re pedophiles that fantasise about children. Hyper realistic A.I art is just around the corner and this shit needs to be taking care of before A.I CP becomes a billion dollar busines.

Real CP and drawn CP caters to the same people with the same end result, it the same thing and should be treated the same.

 

[Mothra1988]

Drawings aren’t speech, you dunce.

Wrong, retard:

The First Amendment does protect certain types of expressive conduct and nonverbal speech. This includes artistic expression, such as painting, music, poetry, and literature. As the Second Circuit has held, “paintings, prints, sculptures, etc. …always communicate some idea or concept to those who view it, and as such are entitled to First Amendment Protection.

For example, one of the most common forms of political speech is the political cartoon, which are drawings, and that was the case in newspapers for long before the US was even founded. What you are suggesting here is completely absurd.

 

[Windows Error 98]

Whether it should be censored or not, I think everyone who enjoys it should be shot. If you’re getting off to anything underage looking you are a pedophile. I don’t care if it’s drawn. You are attracted to underage children. Die.

The censorship debate over it is kind of impractical. I’m not sure how I feel really. It’s certainly a gateway to real stuff.

 

[BoomerSperg1922]

I think it's disgusting and anyone who enjoys it is too.

But I also feel the same about scat and I'm not going to say it should be censored, so should I say the same about lolicon?

Tough call. I wonder if there are any large scale studies that show whether or not it contributes or prevents actual child abuse (or neither).

 

[TheNazgulKing]

Then again too, I also don't see a huge reason to be talking about personal fetish details or whatnot to others. If you enjoy loli/shota, you do you, I just don't want to hear about it. Same goes for anyone "vanilla" either, it just isn't important to me. I'll also argue that pedophiles will try to do much more than only get off from 2D childlike or "obvious child" imagery. They're going to be talking to "maturely brained" young teen girls/boys. They'll be spying on their youngest family members, and maybe speaking up about such things if they trust someone enough. I sadly know firsthand. :/

My personal pet peeve about the Rainbow Brigade: they want to drag everything out of the closet, including shit that should stay there. I don't care what you do behind closed doors with other consenting adults or what sort of drawings you fap to. But the perverts aren't satisfied with tolerance, they want to be celebrated as brave bold adult baby diaper lovers, shotacons, and a whole bunch of other fetishes that nobody else outside their echo chamber wants to hear about.

 

[Atatata]

To me, Lolicon is THE lithmus test of whether free speech and civil rights still work or not because so many people hate it. The second it gets banned we're all fucked because then we'll have created an environment where everything is up for grabs. Emotion will have trumped reason for good.

Leaving emotion out of it as much as I can, this is my take:
The reason real CP is illegal isn't because people want to blueball pedos, its because you cannot create it without exploiting and harming children. The reason the age of consent in the US is 18 isn't because something magical happens at that age but because lawmakers agreed that it can be reasonably assumed that MOST folks at that age have the mental maturity to make an informed decision of whether they wish to have sex or not. Having seen interviews with teenagers back from the 70s I think it might've been OK to have it lower then. Looking at the internet today I wonder if some people will ever reach a degree of mental maturity at which they should be legally allowed to consent. These laws exist not to punish pedophiles but to protect those vulnerable to exploitation.

This isn't an issue with fiction. Movies like Ingloriouos Basterds celebrate being an absolute orgy of violence. They aren't critical of it in the slightest, they revel in it and go out of their way to present it to the viewer in the most gruesome and spectacular fashion. The same goes with splatter horror flicks. If the things depicted in those films were real you can bet your ass they wouldn't be allowed either. But they aren't. They may not be to some peoples tastes, but nobody even bats much of an eye.

So basically, the second we're OK with instituting laws based on absolutely nothing but subjective morals, absolutely anything can be criminalized and punished arbitrarily.

Not really related, but it has been used as a test for anime fandoms when it comes to western translation companies.

Loli censorship tend to go hand in hand with regular sexual censorship, changing things to "fit western modern audiences" and general just plain shit translations.

 

[Sumptinsfuckey]

It should be freely (as in both no-cost and readily) available, but the names of anyone who buys it should be published so we know exactly who to set on fire.

 

[ShittlerNiggler]

I fear with how good AI drawings become now, that a lot of pedos will start making AI generated lolicon. This could also lead to a possible loophole since there is no "criminal person" behind the drawing.
When it comes to the entire "but muh free speech" argument, living in a disgusting immoral society is not only way worse than restricted speech but also leads to more restrictions as we can see in modern society and what people try to do to this website.

 

[Atatata]

I fear with how good AI drawings become now, that a lot of pedos will start making AI generated lolicon. This could also lead to a possible loophole since there is no "criminal person" behind the drawing.
When it comes to the entire "but muh free speech" argument, living in a disgusting immoral society is not only way worse than restricted speech but also leads to more restrictions as we can see in modern society and what people try to do to this website.

I'm not tech savvy but considering most AI companies are appealing the the west, it wouldn't be surprising if they cracked down on that sort of thing, try to make it harder to create.

That being said, that'd push artists more into drawing that sort of thing since it'd be something they have over AI, wouldn't it? Its not like its some forbidden knowledge.

 

[ZeCommissar]

Unfortunately unless you can prove a complete direct link that someone being a lolicon is an inevitable pedophile that will molest children it would be extremely redundant to ban it. It would do absolutely nothing to help real world victims of rape and trafficking. If anything it will actually make the situation worse because the degenerate coomers will go to great lengths to get their material. They will do the exact same shit people that consume CP do online in order to get it. Now you're taking up police resources to find, track, and destroy loli porn when those same resources could be used to destroy CP. Hell they probably wouldn't even have to go to the same lengths and just load up a good VPN and start finding Japanese websites, because the Japs sure as shit won't make it illegal anytime soon if ever. At least CP is banned in pretty much every country in the world that matters. I am in 100% agreement with @Secret Asshole that pedophiles are born, not made. Banning loli because it might turn someone into a pedophile is on the same level of banning gay porn because it might make you turn gay. I dare you fuckers to watch 100 hours of gay porn and come back to me. Are you a faggot yet?

Nevermind the fact that the fuckers always use the "well its ackshually a petite 19 year old. Should petite women and their boyfriends be locked up?" Someone being convicted for making child-like drawings is going to be hard to crack in a court of law when they go "well it's just a petite woman" especially if the characters age is left ambiguous, and it doesn't look like a literal toddler.

@Fields Of Rye mentioned some websites earlier. What's funny is hentai places ban loli yet allow rape, zoophilia, and sex slavery/trafficking. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but in my eyes all of those things are on the same level as pedophilia. We always have some fag ass thread with "um guys is loli okay?", but I have yet to see a "is raping grown women in hentai okay?" thread. If you're going to crusade against degeneracy then be consistent and destroy it all.

Are lolicons disgusting? Yes

Should we keep an eye on those that like loli to make sure it's just loli and nothing real they're looking at? Absolutely.

Would lolicons be lined up against a wall and shot in a perfect world right next to the child molestors and rapists? You bet your ass.

However we don't live in a perfect world, so we should focus on making it a better and safer place for our kids instead of focusing on something that causes moral outrage.

 

[Fields Of Rye]

Unfortunately unless you can prove a complete direct link that someone being a lolicon is an inevitable pedophile that will molest children it would be extremely redundant to ban it. It would do absolutely nothing to help real world victims of rape and trafficking. If anything it will actually make the situation worse because the degenerate coomers will go to great lengths to get their material. They will do the exact same shit people that consume CP do online in order to get it. Now you're taking up police resources to find, track, and destroy loli porn when those same resources could be used to destroy CP. Hell they probably wouldn't even have to go to the same lengths and just load up a good VPN and start finding Japanese websites, because the Japs sure as shit won't make it illegal anytime soon if ever. At least CP is banned in pretty much every country in the world that matters. I am in 100% agreement with @Secret Asshole that pedophiles are born, not made. Banning loli because it might turn someone into a pedophile is on the same level of banning gay porn because it might make you turn gay. I dare you fuckers to watch 100 hours of gay porn and come back to me. Are you a faggot yet?

Nevermind the fact that the fuckers always use the "well its ackshually a petite 19 year old. Should petite women and their boyfriends be locked up?" Someone being convicted for making child-like drawings is going to be hard to crack in a court of law when they go "well it's just a petite woman" especially if the characters age is left ambiguous, and it doesn't look like a literal toddler.

@Fields Of Rye mentioned some websites earlier. What's funny is hentai places ban loli yet allow rape, zoophilia, and sex slavery/trafficking. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but in my eyes all of those things are on the same level as pedophilia. We always have some fag ass thread with "um guys is loli okay?", but I have yet to see a "is raping grown women in hentai okay?" thread. If you're going to crusade against degeneracy then be consistent and destroy it all.

Are lolicons disgusting? Yes

Should we keep an eye on those that like loli to make sure it's just loli and nothing real they're looking at? Absolutely.

Would lolicons be lined up against a wall and shot in a perfect world right next to the child molestors and rapists? You bet your ass.

However we don't live in a perfect world, so we should focus on making it a better and safer place for our kids instead of focusing on something that causes moral outrage.

You summoned me back here so here we go

One thing you have missed in this analysis is that pedophiles are unique among the sexual deviants and are on par with the furries in their community structure.

There is no online rape fetish community. Or online bestiality fetish community. You’ll find packs of dogfuckers or people sharing rape videos, but everyone who has dealt with a graph poster knows these people are significantly smaller and less organized than the pedo community

This loli community is what the discussion should be focused on. IDGAF about a petite girl getting smashed by coach from left for dead. I am concerned with a highly organized forum with 90% of it hidden churning out infant sex mods for the sims.

Finally, this insistence of proof is simply unscientific. If you know how IRBs work you know you are basically asking for multiple war crimes where you show people child porn until they rape kids. This is an impossible ask and it doesn’t even address the issue of accessing a community of pedophiles via following the trail.

 

[Mr Bubbless]

That doesn't make loli ok, you're talking about catering to pedophiles dude. It's not even necessarily about the content, but more about the person that enjoys that stuff. loli/CP is the same thing considering the end goal of the consumer, they are people that should not be around children and should be removed from civilised society.

A loli/shota consumer is the same thing as a CP consumer.

Did I imply that drawings of children getting raped is OK? Fucking midwit.