Silent Hill

[Zenos Yae Viator]

I don't know why this upset you so much, but I guess using my eyes is pedantry. You literally shoot a reality warping demon god to death in SH1. No one in the resident evil universe accomplishes anything close to that.

The horror in resident evil is horde horror. Its being surrounded by horrible monsters and counting down the time you have left by the ammo in your gun. That isn't "barely horror". Thats survival horror, pure and simple.

Silent hill is psychological horror. You're supoosed to feel sad about your daughter/wife/dad/neighbor/brother/son/dad again/fiancee. You aren't supposed to think about the fact you're tearing through swarms of anti-reality beings with weapons you picked up out of a gutter because thats not the point. But just because you aren't supposed to think about it doesn't mean you aren't still doing it. Slap promise reprise over E1M1, you'll still be a demon killing machine.

I'm not upset, merely saying that RE was never true horror, it was always Action Horror, people were bemoaning the state of RE like it really changed much beyond becoming incredibly self-aware, which it did that, I grant you.

and I'd suggest that the only reason Harry Mason is able to kill "God", is because Cheryl/Alessa believes he can, because he's "Dad", same with Heather, she's got part of God's power too, SH2 doesn't really involve the same sort of situation as the 1 and 3, and 4's enemies are designed more to break you down by Walter than kill you.

 

[Flopper]

Yeah, I think I'm out for good. Was barely able to finish my second run and the game decided to deliver to me this absolute gem:

I laughed for about a minute straight, then uninstalled it. At least my experience ended on a high note.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

its like your ranting about grasping exactly what the writer wants you to grasp about the character.. bizarre really.

Wrong. This isn't the gotcha you think it is.
The writer wants me to believe that she's some tortured victim forced to go through something that she equates to ritual mutilation and suicide. That she's surrounded by people who either want to take advantage of her or force her into doing what she doesn't want to do. And if they did want me to hate her with every fiber of my being from the start, don't make me play through the whole game 4 times and don't force me to play such an unlikeable person.

Comparing her to James is retarded. You're really going to sit here and compare a little girl who doesn't want to get married to a man who killed his wife to set the both of them free and feels such immense guilt over it that he conjures a whole ass being specifically for the purpose of giving him the punishment he believes he deserves? Hog wash, I say. At least James tries to take some form of responsibility and acknowledges that he's done some fucked shit and then tries to come terms with it and move on. We get an actual ending.

You like Hinako and SHf? Fine, you're allowed to like it and her. But do not sit there and make such a bad faith comparison and gaslight me into thinking their situations are anything remotely comparable.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Wrong. This isn't the gotcha you think it is.
The writer wants me to believe that she's some tortured victim forced to go through something that she equates to ritual mutilation and suicide. That she's surrounded by people who either want to take advantage of her or force her into doing what she doesn't want to do. And if they did want me to hate her with every fiber of my being from the start, don't make me play through the whole game 4 times and don't force me to play such an unlikeable person.

Comparing her to James is retarded. You're really going to sit here and compare a little girl who doesn't want to get married to a man who killed his wife to set the both of them free and feels such immense guilt over it that he conjures a whole ass being specifically for the purpose of giving him the punishment he believes he deserves? Hog wash, I say. At least James tries to take some form of responsibility and acknowledges that he's done some fucked shit and then tries to come terms with it and move on. We get an actual ending.

You like Hinako and SHf? Fine, you're allowed to like it and her. But do not sit there and make such a bad faith comparison and gaslight me into thinking their situations are anything remotely comparable.

Wrongo, I don't like Hinako, and I don't particuarly think SH Forte is an excellent game, and its absolutely the barest connection to being a Silent Hill Game.

I simply "understand" the plot, what the writer was trying to convey, and the themes, that has been my only bone to pick with posters, the guy I just qouted absolutely grasped the plot, but assumed he wasn't supposed to feel that way towards Hinako, you ARE meant to think she's a selfish idiot.

the entire Temple Wedding Ceremony shit is presented as over the top and gruesome as it is, is exactly because Hinako is just that delusional about marriage, when in reality, the marriage of her mom and dad is much nicer and HINAKO KNOWS THIS, but rejects it to live her delusions, she wants to be special, better than other girls, "like one of the boys" but she isn't, she's just rejecting her societal standings for the sake of it.

the only character I think that's acting truly in good faith in this story, is Shu, who desperately wants Hinako to be mentally well, and used the drug to try and help her achieve this, since it had good results for him, Fox Mask is potentially doing this because a God put a spell on him, and Hinako is internally raging because she can't decide on her place in the world.

 

[Local FloRida-man]

I'm not upset, merely saying that RE was never true horror, it was always Action Horror, people were bemoaning the state of RE like it really changed much beyond becoming incredibly self-aware, which it did that, I grant you.

The moaning about the state of RE is just the natural factionalism that occurs when a series gets so big it has eras (1-CVX, 4-Rev2, 7-8/the remakes.) The eras have distinct identities and people are going to have preferences that won't make logical sense. Silent hill is unfortunate in that, despite almost being as old as RE, it only has 2 eras: the good era: 1-4, and the cashgrab era: everything else.

and I'd suggest that the only reason Harry Mason is able to kill "God", is because Cheryl/Alessa believes he can, because he's "Dad", same with Heather, she's got part of God's power too, SH2 doesn't really involve the same sort of situation as the 1 and 3, and 4's enemies are designed more to break you down by Walter than kill you.

That still just puts most of the silent hill crew on par with the average psyker in 40K. Maybe even a little above. By contrast, STARS at their peak are maybe astra militarum. Chris and Jill would probably make it on catachan, but Leon certainly wouldn't.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

The moaning about the state of RE is just the natural factionalism that occurs when a series gets so big it has eras (1-CVX, 4-Rev2, 7-8/the remakes.) The eras have distinct identities and people are going to have preferences that won't make logical sense. Silent hill is unfortunate in that, despite almost being as old as RE, it only has 2 eras: the good era: 1-4, and the cashgrab era: everything else.

That still just puts most of the silent hill crew on par with the average psyker in 40K. Maybe even a little above. By contrast, STARS at their peak are maybe astra militarum. Chris and Jill would probably make it on catachan, but Leon certainly wouldn't.

Heather is quite LITERALLY a powerful Psychic, she is afterall, just a direct reincarnation of Alessa, a powerful medium/Psychic, and has the POWER OF GOD (the Cult's ideation at least)
Harry isn't, however he's so beloved by Cheryl she's essentially granting him special status in her dream realm

EDIT. Leon is far more skilled than Chris, who at his peak was a Squad leader for a variety of NGO paramilitary/BOW scrubbers, meanwhile Leon went through way harsher training than anything Chris ever did, and worked directly under two Presidents directly, to solve BOW situations and even save the Daughter of one from a kidnapping situation, Leon is the most skilled Operator in the setting and is basically a one man army.

 

[Local FloRida-man]

Heather is quite LITERALLY a powerful Psychic, she is afterall, just a direct reincarnation of Alessa, a powerful medium/Psychic, and has the POWER OF GOD (the Cult's ideation at least)
Harry isn't, however he's so beloved by Cheryl she's essentially granting him special status in her dream realm

EDIT. Leon is far more skilled than Chris, who at his peak was a Squad leader for a variety of NGO paramilitary/BOW scrubbers, meanwhile Leon went through way harsher training than anything Chris ever did, and worked directly under two Presidents directly, to solve BOW situations and even save the Daughter of one from a kidnapping situation, Leon is the most skilled Operator in the setting and is basically a one man army.

Thays what I'm saying, most psykers crumble at even a single hellhound, but there isnt a single SH protag who hasn't single handedly killed at least a demon lord equivalent. Harry and Heather would be equivalent to st celestine, while James and Henry would be on par with grey knights in how well they all handled demonic incursions.

And Chris is superior to Leon because he most likely didn't even have any training. Theres no fucking way he was retired delta force at 20. Which means he lied, but his natural skills were so good it fooled Barry and Wesker. Leon needed years of special training to become a (rather shitty) bodyguard and a secret service shock troop. Chris founded his own international, extragovernmental, paramilitary organization purely by being a such roided out redneck retard.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

And Chris is superior to Leon because he most likely didn't even have any training. Theres no fucking way he was retired delta force at 20. Which means he lied,

I mean he can fly a fucking Harrier, he didn't lie, its just an impossible, but complete stated background for the character, they are all over the top as hell, Leon isn't Ashley's Bodyguard, he's just the guy they sent to fix the problem, she was going to college in Europe, if you mean the 2nd President who died under him, fair enough, though he was likely secretly infected without any possible foreknowledge by Not-Ada.

Chris did not found the B.S.A.A, or Blue Umbrella, he's just their best leader, which is where he excells and the most he ever does in any game, be a great squad leader for guys on the ground, he's not the smartest man in the world afterall.

Thays what I'm saying, most psykers crumble at even a single hellhound, but there isnt a single SH protag who hasn't single handedly killed at least a demon lord equivalent. Harry and Heather would be equivalent to st celestine, while James and Henry would be on par with grey knights in how well they all handled demonic incursions.

Harry isn't, he's just got an Aura from Alessa/Cheryl, Heather/Cheryl/Alessa however would be stronger than St. Celestine, she literally houses a God and had full access to its power.

James isn't fighting anything but demons the Town/Power crafts for him, they are real, but they exist just to torment him, it isn't like Harry or Heather, same with Henry, the monster's in 4 only exist to wear him down and make him ready for the sacrifice, he didn't even come up with the plan to defeat Walter, the writer who previously stayed in the Apt. did, Henry is retarded.

 

[SauceRyuKen]

Goddamn.

I’d give this post more than one winner if I could. What a glorious beatdown you delivered. Exactly right on all accounts, and even worse if one considers that:

-Hinako states multiple times that Kotoyuki makes her buckle at the knees.
-Hinako states multiple times that she gives no fucks about Shu, while gaslighting him with the maybe maybe maybe.
-Kanta has never struck her and is also under social pressure of what a man should be. He has lost his nerves, he has shouted at her, but never got violent. He’s also desperate and you really get the feeling that without his wife it’d take him 20 seconds tops to tie the noose and write his goodbye letter
-Children inherit debt in Asia. It’s not just Kanta that’s fucked by his debt, it’s everyone in that household. She could renounce it, and be out on the streets, but free, fucking over everyone. Junko wants to keep the family house? That’s her fucking problem I guess!
-Just fucking marry Kotoyuki and come to an agreement, he legit seems reasonable enough, you can even keep being an utter bitch to Sakuko over those four fifty bucks she owes you and ruining Rinko and Shu’s lives for your amusement, you silly, immature idiot. Save your mom from death. Save your dad from despair. Get a hunky, caring, kind, rich husband who is absolutely 100% gonna be a gentleman about everything.

Silent Hill 1 is one of gaming’s first hairy dads killing a dark god to rescue his kid. Well, he’s pretty hunky too, but you get the idea. 2 is a tragic love story. 3 touches on some very real fears a young woman may have, and in the end, through her strength, she gains her freedom. 4 is the horriying story of a man who was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and he must put down a magic evil hobo to maybe survive the ordeal. Even Origins being largely just about no good deed goes unpunished and being a good dude can REALLY fucking suck. Those are all pretty relatable, memorable themes.

Silent Hill F is about a bratty womanchild who is determined to not just argue, but fight to the death with the winning lottery ticket that just fell into her lap, while screwing over everyone around her. The F stands for Fuck you, got mine. Hinako’s a baby boomer. Makes perfect sense.

Realistically, I suppose the F stands for Free.

As for the gameplay it’s fucking hilarious. This teenage girl is basically Taiga Saejima from Yakuza. Counter that stuns, charged attacks, dodge with ok iframes but endlag so bad you basically can’t get anything out of it. Super unfitting for silent hill and somehow worse than Homecoming, which at least was snappy and visceral.

Too bad they didn’t give her a straight up tiger drop.

 

[Pumpkin_Spice_Bastard]

This main character is so unbelievably spoiled, bratty and unlikable and yet the game rewards her annoying behavior.

You know the funny thing is that everything you said reminded me about when my mom told me about how girls in her school back in USSR were.

And to the people saying that Harry/Heather only defeated God due to being special magical beings:

Aglophadus.
In 1 and 3 God got mega debuff from getting the red liquid/pill. It was all magic stuff to make it vulnerable/corporeal to bullets.

 

[Would]

the game hits you over the head with how wrong she is

Not entirely. She doesn’t ever get shown she’s wrong, disproven, nor is there an ending where her misery sown gets reaped.
She’s always right or mistaken due to other’s wrongdoing.
She has no arc. She’s a hard-headed LA zoomer at the start and a bipolar zoomer at the end. The true ending has her stay behind (because she already knows everything and has forgiven herself of her sins) while her betrothed, who is already madly in love, established, and mature, must take a soul-finding journey across the world.
Not to find out if he really wants what he wants (though it makes me think that the writers willfully want to inject doubt into a man who had none [marriage is bad m’kay]) from life, but to assure Hinako he’s not going to be a traditional Japanese man and will travel west to purge himself of any traditions and customs Hinako might find yucky.
Never mind the fact all his actions to this point prove he’s an honorable man, Miss Perfect worries that even the vague chance he might change with time is enough to submit the man to prove himself even more.
Even though Hinako’s inner circle hate her and one guy is regularly taken advantage of and manipulated by her. No atonement needed though.

This story was mediocre and very agenda driven, and the devs knew it.
None of the trailers imply this kind of shit was going to be part of the plot. The trailers implied we were getting “The Grudge” meets “Infection” with a splash of Junji Ito.

The only part I agree with you is that the game does eventually, almost begrudgingly, reveal to you that the people in Hinako’s life are not bad people or anywhere near as she perceives them.
But Hinako never has to directly acknowledge nor atone for her misconception.
Harry had to do this.
Jason had to do this.
Heather had to this.
Henry, not so much, though he’s stuck in a supernatural plot due to circumstance rather than sins past.

 

[Soycast II]

And Chris is superior to Leon because he most likely didn't even have any training. Theres no fucking way he was retired delta force at 20. Which means he lied, but his natural skills were so good it fooled Barry and Wesker. Leon needed years of special training to become a (rather shitty) bodyguard and a secret service shock troop. Chris founded his own international, extragovernmental, paramilitary organization purely by being a such roided out redneck retard.

Leon fangirls will never understand that Chris is the man. HE’S A TRUE AMERICAN!

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Leon fangirls will never understand that Chris is the man. HE’S A TRUE AMERICAN!
View attachment 8013901

doesn't he work for International GLOBOHOMO NGO paramilitary Orgs?
Leon is LITERALLY a Fed for a series of Presidents who are actual good guys.

Not entirely. She doesn’t ever get shown she’s wrong, disproven, nor is there an ending where her misery sown gets reaped.
She’s always right or mistaken due to other’s wrongdoing.

I've gone over this, but everyone in this thread interpreting the game like this misunderstands depicting a character with endorsing or prescribing a character as right, everyone needs to remember ALL the events of this game take place entirely within Hinako and Shu's shared Drug dream, Shadow HInako shits all over Hinako, even when they are more aligned in later "ending paths" and the game actively avoids ass patting her as correct about any of her gripes.

The only thing that is resolved by "TRue Good ending" is that HInako has made a decision for herself for good or ill, and Kotoyuki has accepted it, that's it, she has resolved her internal dispute, it has no bearing on her actual "real life" conflicts with past friends (remember. she's 20 now, not 14) or family members.

I think this is a case when a game needs to explicitly look at the camera and tell you what the writer wants you to take away from the ending and the characters, because alot of you need it.

its fucking awful I have to once again nitpick a game I'm not even wowed by simply because everyone goes over it wrong or simply got in their feelings about how Not Silent Hill it is and colored everything else from it, its not a masterpiece, I don't particularly like Hinako (Shu is the only good character) and the Dark Temple sucks cock compared to Otherworlds, but here we are, once again mulling over the themes and characters.

 

[Would]

I've gone over this, but everyone in this thread interpreting the game like this misunderstands

Everyone is wrong but me.
C’mon now…

 

[capitalBBustard]

And to the people saying that Harry/Heather only defeated God due to being special magical beings:

Aglophadus.

Nobody said either of them are magical you tard. The only person with supernatural powers was Alessa in 1 and that's what lets her tap into whatever supernatural entity exists in the town.

It's not a real god, it's a manifestation of Alessa/Claudia's delusions via Silent Hill in their games respectively. The reason the red juice works is because Alessa believes it does in 1 and Heather believes it does in 3. And all the red juice does is separate the "god" from the human host.

And the reason why Harry/Heather can hurt the "gods" is because whatever remains of Cheryl in Alessa believes in Harry while Heather broke free of Claudia's delusions thanks to her faith in Harry so whatever Claudia manifests at that point Heather can overcome.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Everyone is wrong but me.
C’mon now…

everyone here hates it because it isn't set in Silent Hill, and they think Hinako is an endorsed Protagianost, and not an unreliable narrator who is also not a good person.

I can't state enough that having an axe to grind because it isn't set in the town proper is retarded, especially when people were then holding up fuckin DOWNPOUR above it, a game where you go to a "Silent Hill" so fundamentally impossibly different than the one from SH 1-3 that its now Chicago instead of a small town resort local, meaning they think THAT one is good because its set in "absolutely fucking not" Silent Hill, but this one set in a foggy village is bad because it doesn't even try and lie to you about it being a spinoff.

Nobody said either of them are magical you tard. The only person with supernatural powers was Alessa in 1 and that's what lets her tap into whatever supernatural entity exists in the town.

It's not a real god, it's a manifestation of Alessa/Claudia's delusions via Silent Hill in their games respectively. The reason the red juice works is because Alessa believes it does in 1 and Heather believes it does in 3. And all the red juice does is separate the "god" from the human host.

And the reason why Harry/Heather can hurt the "gods" is because whatever remains of Cheryl in Alessa believes in Harry while Heather broke free of Claudia's delusions thanks to her faith in Harry so whatever Claudia manifests at that point Heather can overcome.

its not that she believes it, its because it does, its a purifying agent in ritual shit.
all of SH1-4 uses real world ritual shit to invoke the elements in the plot, and Heather is a magical being just like Alessa, she's literally her.

 

[capitalBBustard]

its not that she believes it, its because it does, its a purifying agent in ritual shit.
all of SH1-4 uses real world ritual shit to invoke the elements in the plot, and Heather is a magical being just like Alessa, she's literally her.

None of that ritual shit is actually real in any of the games lilbro. Silent Hill is making it real through people like Alessa, Claudia and Walter whom believe in the cult's teaching to various degrees. That's why the Seal of Metatron doesn't work in 3, Claudia doesn't believe it has power over her god (a manifestation of her delusions) so it doesn't do shit when Vincent tries to use it.

If muh ritual shit were real, the seal would work on its own. The game literally uses Vincent's failure to drive this home.

As for Heather, she is not the entirety of Alessa. It's really blatant in the ending of SH1 that Alessa split her soul again and what was left behind died. Heather doesn't seem to have any of Alessa's powers, not to any notable degree outside of being able to interact with SH. All she seemingly retained was her memories that manifest once Heather is in SH.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

None of that ritual shit is actually real in any of the games lilbro. Silent Hill is making it real through people like Alessa, Claudia and Walter whom believe in the cult's teaching to various degrees. That's why the Seal of Metatron doesn't work in 3, Claudia doesn't believe it has power over her god (a manifestation of her delusions) so it doesn't do shit when Vincent tries to use it.

If muh ritual shit were real, the seal would work on its own. The game literally uses Vincent's failure to drive this home.

As for Heather, she is not the entirety of Alessa. It's really blatant in the ending of SH1 that Alessa split her soul again and what was left behind died. Heather doesn't seem to have any of Alessa's powers, not to any notable degree outside of being able to interact with SH. All she seemingly retained was her memories that manifest once Heather is in SH.

wrong, Metatron is an Angel, it doesn't answer Vincent's call because he's a filthy sinner who has not absolved himself before God.

Heather doesn't manifest powers because she doesn't, not because she doesn't have powers, some part of Alessa is still with her, hence the boss fight, its perfectly reasonable to assume the weird reincarnation baby carries the same power as the original, since she also carries the God too.

 

[capitalBBustard]

wrong, Metatron is an Angel, it doesn't answer Vincent's call because he's a filthy sinner who has not absolved himself before God.

source: your (restless) dream

This selective behavior you attribute to the symbol depending on personal dislike of the attempted user is not even remotely hinted at in any of the games lilbro. This is just cope. Vincent eating shit is a huge moment in the game, and absolutely rips apart any notion that these ritual/occult symbols have any power on their own. Really it just reinforces how SH works since the first game.

Heather doesn't manifest powers because she doesn't, not because she doesn't have powers, some part of Alessa is still with her, hence the boss fight, its perfectly reasonable to assume the weird reincarnation baby carries the same power as the original, since she also carries the God too.

No, it's not reasonable. The first game literally establishes that a soul cleaved in two has at best proportionally less power, likely even less considering how little of the "god" Alessa is capable of manifesting post-soul split. Hence the need for Cheryl to be called back to SH. The ending of the game blatantly depicts both Alessa and the "newborn" baby existing concurrently, meaning it is not a straight reincarnation but another soul separation like before. It also blatantly depicts Alessa dying shortly after. Then the third game depicts Heather with no power whatsoever.

The only reasonable take is that Heather, much like (when she was) Cheryl, has little to no supernatural power on her own.

 

[Would]

everyone here hates it because it isn't set in Silent Hill

Lol no.
The people who dislike it mostly dislike it because:
- It axes the Silent Hill tone and gameplay for Souls-like staples.
- The protagonist is a cunt with no redeeming qualities only western teenage girls would find likable. Whether this was done to appeal to the west or not is debatable.
It not being set in Silent Hill is the least of this game’s woes. If SH4 can manage, this game had no excuse.

they think Hinako is an endorsed Protagianost, and not an unreliable narrator who is also not a good person.

The game makes no real effort to.
When is she exposed for the unlikable fraud she is?
Jason has his moment of realization and it affects the ending you get.
No matter what path you take, you will always smash the wedding offering table and tardrage that you are too special for this world and those in it.
The game literally declares Hinako special to boot.
Muh “but she’s an unreliable narrator!”
When is this hinted at? Never.
She’s hinted at being a cunt. But never unreliable.

I can't state enough that having an axe to grind because it isn't set in the town proper is retarded

Not ONCE in my replies have I stated not being set in Silent Hill is an irredeemable offense. Get another strawman.