Sperg about comic books here

[Alexander Thaut]

It used to be for fun stuff like how Ranma 1/2 used it and I only got into it because I saw Comic Perch's video on his concerns on how the reboot would treat him. Or exploring the limits of sci-fi and mad science. I don't want it to be about 'gender' identity.

I think a Ranma reboot will be fine for now because Takahashi's still alive. I only watch subs so I'll never know what the dubs do.

Comics and Manga should be entertaining. They can make us laugh, have moments that shake us to the core, god I love comics. It's a shame they have been brought so low from a storytelling standpoint in the states.

Anybody here reading the Ghost Machine titles?

Comics, like every nerd hobby, got ruined by bad actors and infiltrators.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

I think a Ranma reboot will be fine for now because Takahashi's still alive. I only watch subs so I'll never know what the dubs do.

Dido, I just really like the Ranma Japanese voices. I've seen some of the leaked episodes and the only censorship was taking out the nipples. I hope they don't tone down Happosai in anyway.

Comics, like every nerd hobby, got ruined by bad actors and infiltrators.

Cheap people with no real talent

 

[Humble Architect]

Comics and Manga should be entertaining. They can make us laugh, have moments that shake us to the core, god I love comics. It's a shame they have been brought so low from a storytelling standpoint in the states.

This, one of my favorite storylines of all-time is practically built on what you said.

Future Imperfect, Hulk’s Knightfall/Death of Superman equivalent, two issues that changed the character forever and introduced one of my favorite supervillains from Marvel. Maestro is such a sick old bastard that the “kill him with kindness” scene is still one of the most vile things I’ve seen a villian do to a hero.

“I’m gonna unleash my sub-brick IQ harem of slaves on you, they’ll go by the name Betty and you can’t do a damn thing. SUFFAH BRUCE!”

Makes it all the more satisfying when Hulk gores the old man on Cap’s shield and sends him back to die in the blast (Hulk wasn’t as strong in this run as he is now) and then scatters future Rick’s ashes before returning to the present, knowing of the awful, nightmare future he might usher in.

 

[Commander X]

I read the first Jenny Sparks. Jesus christ I wish Tom King would just fuck off. I'm starting to believe he can't write for shit.

It's a kind of story we've been seeing in comics since the mid-Aughts, but this time we get Tom King whining about being a war criminal again and possibly the hackiest pun I've ever seen. The book is supposedly 17+ and Jenny Sparks swears with @#$&. Tom King injects his own boring speeches about God and life into a character that doesn't talk like that for no reason other than to further a boring played out narrative that's been done better. It's not a Jenny Sparks story it's a retelling of the same kind of story we've gotten about Captain Atom from the mid-Aughts, only boring, stupid, and written by a hack who obviously wishes he was writing for TV.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Speaking of Jim Shooter, what in the holy fuck was the point of Secret Wars II? I've finally finished it during my X-Men read through and it's one of the most pointless events I've ever read. The first Secret Wars at least has the excuse of being essentially a toy commercial for Mattel, which actually turned out decently, but I have no idea why SW2 even exists. Was it really just an ego project for Shooter? To prove that he, too, was a smart writer who could do philosophical stories?

If so, he definitely failed. Secret Wars II essentially turns the Marvel universe into an extended episode of Wile E. Coyote vs the Road Runner. The Marvel universe comes together to try to capture / kill the Beyonder with some ridiculous plan which the Beyonder casually foils. When the plot isn't focused on that, it's some other repetitive shit, typically the Beyonder wanting to know the meaning of life, a character giving him their answer (usually something involving how finite and fragile human life is), and then Beyonder throwing a tantrum because he doesn't like the answer. And I guess throw in a random fight with the Phoenix every couple of issues. Repeat all that for nine issues plus a dozen crossover issues and you've got Secret Wars II.

I wonder how annoyed the other Marvel writers were with having to deal with this shit derailing or completely destroying stories they had planned. I imagine Claremont and Byrne were especially annoyed.

 

[jspit2.0]

This, one of my favorite storylines of all-time is practically built on what you said.

Future Imperfect, Hulk’s Knightfall/Death of Superman equivalent, two issues that changed the character forever and introduced one of my favorite supervillains from Marvel. Maestro is such a sick old bastard that the “kill him with kindness” scene is still one of the most vile things I’ve seen a villian do to a hero.

“I’m gonna unleash my sub-brick IQ harem of slaves on you, they’ll go by the name Betty and you can’t do a damn thing. SUFFAH BRUCE!”

Makes it all the more satisfying when Hulk gores the old man on Cap’s shield and sends him back to die in the blast (Hulk wasn’t as strong in this run as he is now) and then scatters future Rick’s ashes before returning to the present, knowing of the awful, nightmare future he might usher in.

I have mixed feelings. PAD's dialogue kindof grates. BUT...damn do I love that part. The best part of Maestro?

He's Bruces own hubris. He was smart Hulk at the time. And everyone else saw how...arrogant he was getting. But Maestro, Maestro is just, rubbing Bruce's face in it. This is everything he hates about himself, to the point he'd love to put a bullet in his brain. The loss of that moral core to Bruce and the Hulk being retconned from a monster is what I kindof hate about modern hulk.

I read the first Jenny Sparks. Jesus christ I wish Tom King would just fuck off. I'm starting to believe he can't write for shit.

He really can't. 'no one wants to be god...."

Really? Batman sitting there as Jenny Sparks talks like Billy Butcher to him and emasculates the guy.

It's horrible. Bad dialogue, bad plotting (no idea what the story is about after 22 pages), bad framing (too many cluttered panels to the point the art feels claustrophobic like amateur story boards).

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Really? Batman sitting there as Jenny Sparks talks like Billy Butcher to him and emasculates the guy.

I feel like Batman would come into the apartment, knock on the door loud enough to wake her up, and then wait for her. Standing over her and some stranger seems untoward.

I love Wildstorm, it's possibly my favorite comic universe. That black label book with Battalion was a disappointment, and this looks to be another one.

 

[jspit2.0]

I feel like Batman would come into the apartment, knock on the door loud enough to wake her up, and then wait for her. Standing over her and some stranger seems untoward.

Well and being passive. He's all about intimidation. Forgetting he'd never cosign a government murder operation, which is what this sounds like, I could not see him just sitting there as she tells him to fuck off to Gotham.

Fucking Batman doesn't fuck off. I know everyone hates Frank Miller or whatever, but I subscribe to the idea that Batman only works if he's genuine unsettling. He's this bigass guy dressed in this weird costume and he suddenly appears and your literally off center as he growls at you.

Jenny just kinda has a smoke and doesn't care. Which is, I suppose Tom King. Kindof there. Limp. Bored. Wants you to praise him if your a woman.

I love Wildstorm, it's possibly my favorite comic universe. That black label book with Battalion was a disappointment, and this looks to be another one.

Hey, I hear you. My take is Wildstorm died with the launch of the Nu52; it went along with the DC universe. Anything after that is increasingly looking either like fanfic or worse, a parody.

 

[Humble Architect]

I have mixed feelings. PAD's dialogue kindof grates. BUT...damn do I love that part. The best part of Maestro?

He's Bruces own hubris. He was smart Hulk at the time. And everyone else saw how...arrogant he was getting. But Maestro, Maestro is just, rubbing Bruce's face in it. This is everything he hates about himself, to the point he'd love to put a bullet in his brain. The loss of that moral core to Bruce and the Hulk being retconned from a monster is what I kindof hate about modern hulk.

Maestro is one of the few “perfect villians” he embodies the worst parts of Bruce and his personas and is content to spite dead people by torturing the remnants of society AM-style. He’s genuinely despicable in a way that big two villians are rarely allowed to be, “Come girl, serve your Maestro.”

The Maestro trilogy isn’t particularly good but it has some parts that are fantastic.

The reveal that Bruce is still in there and Maestro still cares about their mom “SHUT IT OFF!” and Maestro saying he can’t die or else “they win” which he’s referring to his foes, all of which with one exception are long gone.

 

[Burt Ryan]

I'm double-dippin' into X-Men.

I received the Morrison X-Men run today. I'll sink my teeth into that tomorrow, while I keep readin' the Claremont run.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Fucking Batman doesn't fuck off. I know everyone hates Frank Miller or whatever, but I subscribe to the idea that Batman only works if he's genuine unsettling. He's this bigass guy dressed in this weird costume and he suddenly appears and your literally off center as he growls at you.

Jenny just kinda has a smoke and doesn't care.

Yeah, fair. Ignoring that this interaction shouldn't really be happening at all, I don't think he'd care what she has to say if she decided to order him around. He'd just ignore her and get whatever information he wants, convey whatever he means to pass along, and leave. The only thing that is in character is that Jenny would just light up a smoke like a rude asshole, and wouldn't really be impressed at first based on all that she's seen and done in her life.

After a few minutes of interaction with him, she would realize he knows far more than he lets on and is not phased in the slightest by any meta threatening him or trying to intimidate him. He wouldn't try to scare her, he just wouldn't react, really. He can stare down Superman.

The best Batman is immovable until someone is in danger, and even then he's likely to be cool as a snowbank in the arctic. The best Jenny is a young woman that acts like an old man that's seen it all, tried most of it, and realized being a grumpy dick that zaps first and asks questions afterward usually works out the way she wants.

I received the Morrison X-Men run today.

Take a drink every time a character acts contrary to how they have for 30 years and see how far you get.


Just finished reading Birthright from Image. I liked it. Not usually a fan of fantasy but the art was great and the story wasn't bad either.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Fucking Batman doesn't fuck off. I know everyone hates Frank Miller or whatever, but I subscribe to the idea that Batman only works if he's genuine unsettling. He's this bigass guy dressed in this weird costume and he suddenly appears and your literally off center as he growls at you.

That's why I liked Ennis's Batman: Reptian mini from a couple years ago. It made me realise that his "No Kill Rule" actually makes him scarier.

Also why has Batman: The Cult been memoryholed?

one exception are long gone

I liked that the Abomination was an Anti-hero in that story made me want to read some older Abomination stories because I like villains with depth.

I wish Baron Zemo kept his Anti-Hero status in the comics

 

[Alexander Thaut]

That's why I liked Ennis's Batman: Reptian mini from a couple years ago. It made me realise that his "No Kill Rule" actually makes him scarier.

Also why has Batman: The Cult been memoryholed?

I liked that the Abomination was an Anti-hero in that story made me want to read some older Abomination stories because I like villains with depth.

I wish Baron Zemo kept his Anti-Hero status in the comics

i think the original Thunderbolts shoulda been allowed to go full hero or anti-hero. hell, Mach-7 and Songbird kinda did? Atlas is sort of a ??? these days. That leaves Fixer who can be persuaded to do good but is more intent on just screwing around with his interests.

Then you have Moonstone and Zemo being the fun duo. I think Moonstone's obviously a villain, but having her pretend to be a hero is always fun. Until she gets in over her head. But she's usually powerful enough to survive shit that isn't reality-bending.

Zemo should have and could have been a Dr. Doom tier villain/anti-hero if they executed the end of his big 00s Thunderbolt arc.

 

[Humble Architect]

ThatI liked that the Abomination was an Anti-hero in that story made me want to read some older Abomination stories because I like villains with depth.

I wish Baron Zemo kept his Anti-Hero status in the comics

That story was the best Blonsky has ever been, him just being honest and saying “I wanna die and be with my wife” was great, that whole back and forth on the beach is the perfect end to their rivalry.

“You know, if you hadn’t killed Betty, we could’ve been friends.”

“That means nothing to me.”

Maestro is great when he has chemistry with an opponent, it’s why the first two minis felt off, his foes weren’t up to par. But when his opponent has chemistry, he’s the best. The 2099 issue with him was great, the Old Man Logan rivalry was great and I even liked the Contest of Champions tie-in, cause him and Punisher 2099 were great together.

I’d love to see the crazy old bastard make a return, he’d have loved Krakoa.

Zemo came so close to achieving “major villain” apotheosis but the MCU damage is too strong I fear. Especially with the Thunderbolts permanently hijacked into being a Suicide Squad.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

That story was the best Blonsky has ever been, him just being honest and saying “I wanna die and be with my wife” was great, that whole back and forth on the beach is the perfect end to their rivalry.

“You know, if you hadn’t killed Betty, we could’ve been friends.”

“That means nothing to me.”

Maestro is great when he has chemistry with an opponent, it’s why the first two minis felt off, his foes weren’t up to par. But when his opponent has chemistry, he’s the best. The 2099 issue with him was great, the Old Man Logan rivalry was great and I even liked the Contest of Champions tie-in, cause him and Punisher 2099 were great together.
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I’d love to see the crazy old bastard make a return, he’d have loved Krakoa.

Zemo came so close to achieving “major villain” apotheosis but the MCU damage is too strong I fear. Especially with the Thunderbolts permanently hijacked into being a Suicide Squad.

no it's salvable if they just keep the vibe of him being a scheming magnificent bastard that thinks of himself as chivalrous or heroic in his own twisted yet darkly honorable way. as long as they keep the essence of Zemo and play off it, then it's got potential.

 

[Humble Architect]

no it's salvable if they just keep the vibe of him being a scheming magnificent bastard that thinks of himself as chivalrous or heroic in his own twisted yet darkly honorable way. as long as they keep the essence of Zemo and play off it, then it's got potential.

I liked his dynamic with Hydra Cap, that was the best part of a shitty story.

The Hydra warlords are all fun, Zola, Zemo, Skull, Strucker and Viper are perfect Bond villains. Irredeemable pieces of shit who chew the scenery like it’s stress gum, just how I like my villains.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I'm a couple of issues into the original X-Factor and I've been enjoying it so far. Feels more like a standard superhero comic right now with the cast having secret identities and mostly focusing on saving people -- I'm sure most of this will get dropped once Louise Simonson replaces Bob Layton as the writer and begins integrating it into Claremont's X-Men saga.

Speaking of Layton, he's doing well as the writer. He had the thankless task of making Scott leave his wife and kid but I think he handled it was well as one could. As far as I know, it was an editorial decision to focus a new book around the original X-Men team, so someone was going to have to do it. Scott is shown being very tortured over the decision but ultimately feeling like he he has a greater responsibility to mankind as a hero. He's not even given a free pass on it, Warren (Angel) gives him a hard time about leaving his wife and kid behind. Definitely not a huge fan of making Cyclops into a deadbeat father but the whole Madelyne Pryor thing was retarded from the start, even before all the retcons.

Bringing back Jean Grey was handled weirdly as it's not even done in any of the X-Men books but rather in the Avengers and Fantastic Four. Which I guess isn't a surprise given that Claremont hated the idea of bringing back Jean and having Scott leave Madelyne so much that he nearly quit, with Louise Simonson being the one to talk him off the ledge. All in all her resurrection isn't too awful, especially considering that Jim Shooter apparently had the stipulation that if anyone wanted to bring Jean back they had to find a way to absolve her of the genocide she committed during the Phoenix Saga. I do like that they took away Jean's telepathic powers upon resurrection, as I've always felt a power like that is too much for regular plots.

Lastly for the writing, Bob Layton supposedly wanted the Owl to be the main antagonist for the book but Louise had it changed to Apocalypse. Going with the Owl would've meant more grounded stories, possibly even noir stuff, which tracks given the popularity of the Punisher and Miller's Daredevil at the time, plus Spider-Man was leaning more into gritty crime stories at the time, too.

For the art, I think X-Factor has the best art right now out of the X-Books; Jackson Guice's art is very clean and detailed. On Uncanny, JRJR seems like he's bored and just phoning it in now, which I remember happening with his art on Spider-Main the '90s. Art on New Mutants has been inconsistent for a while.

 

[Anon88]

Definitely not a huge fan of making Cyclops into a deadbeat father but the whole Madelyne Pryor thing was retarded from the start, even before all the retcons.

As strange as the Cyclops Madelyne Pryor relationship was I'm still kind of glad all that stuff was written. It gave us the inferno story arc which was kind of fun as well as indirectly laying the background work for a couple of the time traveling characters that show up later on. Plus having Cyclops not just brush it off and instead carry the guilt of his actions years after he did that makes him somewhat of a more interesting character during the early 90s.

 

[Flaming Carrot]

I hope Lemire's JSA book is good

I generally like Lemire, but I think he's putting out so much stuff these days the quality is starting to suffer a bit. He's still better than most of the people currently working at DC.

Also why has Batman: The Cult been memoryholed?

It's getting reprinted later this year. DC seems to be increasing the amount of collected editions they do, which is nice.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Was the Zero Hour 30th-Anniversary Special that came out last week any good?