Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Captain Syrup said:
View attachment 8165660

We’re supposed to do this “actually that was good” cope with early-2000s space operas.

Those shows were struggling at the time, but they happened to be on TV when everyone was in college, so Crusade and Stargate Universe are now lost masterpieces.
Click to expand...
The Star Wars prequels really soured me on prequels so when Enterprise came out and wasn't that great compared to DS9 I gave up on it.
 
I remember watching Voyager religiously when it first aired until realizing it was a slog but still powering through somehow. Enterprise which came later I just couldn't do to myself. I think I watched like three episodes and something just cracked. I somehow avoided most of the lore of it and actually, genuinely believe that when I would watch it today I would think it's not bad. That's how bad things have become. This is a thing with all TV shows Trek, SciFi, non-SciFi, whatever. They all feel like the writers go down the same checklist (for all of the shows) and then spend the rest of the brainstorm session jerking each other off. You can find the same elements in every single show. I'm not even only talking about the usual culture war/agenda stuff either. When you see it once, you can't unsee it.

Somewhen in the last months I saw some post of some rando claiming to work "in the Industry" in which he stated that the main shift is that these TV shows aren't the "bread and butter" anymore, but just prestige projects by bored celebs who don't really need the money. Somehow this resonated a lot with me, even if it maybe was made up on the spot because it just makes so much sense.

Anyways:
 
OutInTheRain said:
I would assume that Officers were given their own to use, away from the stickiness that would no doubt result from enlisted holodeck use. Then two set aside for (the never seen)Enlisted use, that would no doubt always has an unpleasant smell, speaking to unknowable horrors that happen within. Maybe one for senior enlisted, so really it would be three for general use. So I imagine holodeck usage would be at a premium.

I could see trading holodeck time being a thing, but some asshole Captain would restrict the process after an officer gave away an hour in the Officer's suite to some Enlisted and they left the place an absolute mess. With unspeakable horrors coating every surface.

You all know it would happen.
Click to expand...
In theory? Sure. In the show? We see the officers use any number of holodecks so it doesn't seem to hold up.

Of course what's funny is the Barcley episode. It makes you wonder if one reason he managed to stay on board is because he kept picking up everybody's shifts to rack up holodeck time...

(though i have to admit, i wouldn't want to leave Bev Crusher's lap either)

Ultraman Orb Dark said:
That's one of the things I find facinating about the Ferengi. In some ways, their society is less advanced than humanity, but in other ways, they're more advanced.
Click to expand...
Even the Ferengi admit they never had some of the worst evils in their history that humanity did.
"We have nothing in our past approaching that kind of barbarism..."
 
Flexo said:
Of course what's funny is the Barcley episode. It makes you wonder if one reason he managed to stay on board is because he kept picking up everybody's shifts to rack up holodeck time...
Click to expand...
I imagine after a while there would be the "Barclay" deck. The one no one wants to use. The one that whenever Barclay isn't in it, he's hovering around outside it. You know that you can never really enjoy yourself knowing he's there...waiting. If the computer moves his appointment to another deck, he throws a little bit of a fit. Because he has decided that, that deck portrays his fantasy just right. He's played around with the settings to make it perfect. You've heard of Audiophiles, well he's a deckophile.

Everytime someone uses HIS deck to do something depraved, he takes it personally. Seeking out the individual to chide them on their 'poor' behavior and rant about how they tainted his safe space, his pure place.

I'd actually watch that episode.
 
Captain Syrup said:
View attachment 8165660

We’re supposed to do this “actually that was good” cope with early-2000s space operas.

Those shows were struggling at the time, but they happened to be on TV when everyone was in college, so Crusade and Stargate Universe are now lost masterpieces.
Click to expand...
Enterprise has a ROUGH first two seasons that I won't defend and I totally understand someone not wanting to slog through them to get to seasons 3 and 4, but if you want that good shit its all in Seasons 3 and 4 (3 more than 4).

Season 3 is really what Voyager should have been, a brutal roughshod mess of a journey through unknown space with pretty much no support and all their "superior" proto-federation moral and ethical limits being pushed to the breaking point as they are forced to do anything and everything to simply survive.

Season 4 was gearing up to be great before its dogshit finale capped the entire show at the knees.
 
Mussolini’s Merkin said:
Wasn't it Robert Carlyle? I don't think I ever watched the show but I've been told to check it out by a few people over the years.
Click to expand...
Robert Carlyle has maybe the most bewildering career trajectory... He goes from Trainspotting to getting his ass out in The Full Monty, which is a film that could only have existed during the nineties, "yeah sure, working-class guys stripping, that’s a movie.”

Then he shows up in a Bond film, but no! In peak Brosnan-era fashion he’s actually the henchman who just has a lot of lines. And then he kind of evaporates into the ether, presumably to raise his kids or something, then returns for some Battlestar knockoff, before becoming MTG Joker.
 
Last edited:
Captain Syrup said:
Robert Carlyle has maybe the most bewildering career trajectory... He goes from Trainspotting to getting his ass out in The Full Monty, which is a film that could only have existed during the nineties, "yeah sure, working-class guys stripping, that’s a movie.”

Then he shows up in a Bond film, but no! In peak Brosnan-era fashion he’s actually the henchman who just has a lot of lines. And then he kind of evaporates into the ether, presumably to raise his kids or some shit, then returning for some Battlestar knockoff before becoming MTG Joker.
Click to expand...
He was also Hagrid, snd did some police series.
 
Brain Problems said:
Wasn't he the main villain Renard, actually? It's just that the movie is a piece of shit and no one can remember a goddamn thing
Click to expand...
No, with the exception of Tomorrow Never Dies, the Brosnan-era Bond movies all have this thing in the first act where he’s chasing some random dude who turns out to be a Shemp. In GoldenEye it’s Ouromov, of course Sean Bean is the villain, but that was not known at the time. Then in World Is Not Enough, Bond’s hunting Renard, and the twist is that he’s basically been love-bombed and brainwashed by the very lady he was supposed to brainwash. It’s like if Patty Hearst was actually the one running things.

And then in Die Another Day, Jesus Christ, he’s chasing this weird, hairless guy with diamonds stuck in his face, before moving on to Toby Stephens. I actually like Toby Stephens, but he’s usually a sign that whatever you're watching is bad.
 
Captain Syrup said:
View attachment 8165660

We’re supposed to do this “actually that was good” cope with early-2000s space operas.

Those shows were struggling at the time, but they happened to be on TV when everyone was in college, so Crusade and Stargate Universe are now lost masterpieces.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of stuff from 20 years ago just looks better in hindsight because so much new media is corporate slop.

Those 20th Century Fox Marvel movies seemed so bad at the time because the studio execs interfered and fucked with the comic lore to try and make them appeal more to 15-34 year old males, but that level of meddling pales in comparison to crap studios push into movies now. There's almost like an informal modern equivalent to the Hays Code that dictates certain things need to be shoved into every blockbuster movie.
 
Last edited:
It's sad to look back with current year +9 eye and see the rot seeping into TNG and DS9 after a recent rewatch.

At the time we all brushed it off as just a little thing but the tell tale signs were there.

The not so subtle jabs at capitalism, the edgy gender shit, the snide shots at men and the unstoppable girl boss that was Janeway. Seriously she never loses, is never wrong. Defeats the Borg and even brings Q to heel. In hindsight that wasn't just poor writing like we all thought but the early warning sign of the cancer that was to come.

Picard could be and was humiliated, not often but it did happen. It made him more relatable and a better character. Sisko was black so he was more resistant but he was wrong every now and then but I can't recall a single time he was seen being humiliated or crying like Picard.

Janeway, besides being a psychopathic genocide machine, was never wrong, was never defeated, was never seen to be weak. We just all wrote it off as bad writing...but was it?

I was honestly surprised at how far back the seeds of what was to come were planted.
 
Flexo said:
Even the Ferengi admit they never had some of the worst evils in their history that humanity did.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=W5J_qn93Nkc"We have nothing in our past approaching that kind of barbarism..."
Click to expand...
RLM said that DS9 is where current rot of ST started and I think they have a point with this scene alone.

Both TOS and TNG were like "yeah, humans were bad, but we've improved and we celebrate what we have achieved". THere is no more violence, poverty, racism, or any of the things we still suffer today: everybody has housing, health, food, and anyone can really achieve their full potential. First TNG episode is literally "we shall not be judged by the mistakes of our ancestors, but by what we do today, fuck you Q for even try to manipulate us into feeling bad for things we didn't do and we've left behind centuries ago".

And then enters DS9: "actually, dear watcher, remember that humans are the true villains and we did all of those bad things".

Please notice also that Starfleet is meant to be seen as the peak of Western Civilization while the Ferengis are the merchants. I'm sure that the merchants that live for profit and profit alone have never ever done anything as bad as we evil humans who managed to create civilization without money ever did.
 
Sweeter and Savoury said:
It's sad to look back with current year +9 eye and see the rot seeping into TNG and DS9 after a recent rewatch.

At the time we all brushed it off as just a little thing but the tell tale signs were there.

The not so subtle jabs at capitalism, the edgy gender shit, the snide shots at men and the unstoppable girl boss that was Janeway. Seriously she never loses, is never wrong. Defeats the Borg and even brings Q to heel. In hindsight that wasn't just poor writing like we all thought but the early warning sign of the cancer that was to come.

Picard could be and was humiliated, not often but it did happen. It made him more relatable and a better character. Sisko was black so he was more resistant but he was wrong every now and then but I can't recall a single time he was seen being humiliated or crying like Picard.

Janeway, besides being a psychopathic genocide machine, was never wrong, was never defeated, was never seen to be weak. We just all wrote it off as bad writing...but was it?

I was honestly surprised at how far back the seeds of what was to come were planted.
Click to expand...
You're not necessarily wrong, though TNG and DS9 at the very least were mostly intelligent about it and didn't beat us over the head with a distorted, lovecraftian version of post-modern liberalism. Both series had tons of episodes where multiple sides of a particular argument were given, and in a fair manner. That'd be impossible today. The genderqueer marxist post-patriarchy Federation is always right and everyone else is a Nazi Hitler-bigot that needs to be forcibly reeducated. nuTrek offers no high resolution debates, nor does it ever question the validity of its ideological premise. That's what makes it truly rotten, and frankly: dangerous.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom