Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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L50LasPak said:
This would be the best origin story of the Klingons ever. Say they did nuke them from orbit, and the Klingons survived. No wonder everything in their society is so ugly and miserable and their homeworld looks like a Bad Future from Captain Planet.
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That would finally make their "badasses of the galaxy" status as well earned.

"They nuked us.

It just made us mad."
 
L50LasPak said:
Yeah but my point was while it was never explicitly said so on screen, its pretty much all but presumed.

Bigger question is why the fuck the Hur'q left and then suddenly died off atogether for no explained reason. Did they get like horrible Klingon AIDS or something or did the Dominion show up and kill them all?
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The Klingons killed them so fucking hard that everyone forgot why they died.
 
Booting Kirstin Beyer out on her ass would fix many problems. Her stuff was so lame it got rejected multiple times from Voyager , yet she is essentially writing the series bible 🤔
 
Negilum said:
I do like the idea of the Klingons being a race the coincidentally aquired space travek technology. At some point in DS9, Star Trek made it cannon that the Klingon home planet Kronos was raided by an alien species from the Delta Quadrant, and in my head cannon, I like to imagine that the Klingons acquired space faring technology by studying the scraps the raiders left behind. It's the only way I can imagine a warrior race with an aversion to academics could become so technologically advanced.
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Never forget.
2011-08-01-The-Smartest-Klingon.jpg

Whomp! - The Smartest Klingon

www.whompcomic.com www.whompcomic.com
 
L50LasPak said:
This would be the best origin story of the Klingons ever. Say they did nuke them from orbit, and the Klingons survived. No wonder everything in their society is so ugly and miserable and their homeworld looks like a Bad Future from Captain Planet.
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Or yknow, their moon exploding.
 
Miller said:
The thing is, she's the only one at Secret Hideout to have some kind of sci-fi background. The rest of the writing team all come from CW teen drama shows.
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You know, after all the salt and speculation and bullshitting about Discovery on this thread, that really explains everything about why Discovery sucks so much.
 
Negilum said:
Generally speaking, I think the Prime Directive being a sacred oath is exceptional. However it's cases like this where the Prime Directive's intetions makes sense.
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It'd probably come across better if, in the entire of Star Trek's body of work writers could produce a Prime Directive script that wasn't horrendously contrived, chock full of absolute nonsense, and at its best wasn't a half-cocked ass pull to try to justify it under "well, it wasn't the least ethical thing we could do" crap. Closest we ever got was the Enterprise episode where Phlox discovers an alien species is genetically-nonviable, and while the genetic flaws could be corrected it would be at the expense of another species. Even then the logical hoops the plot has to follow to get from premise to conclusion strain suspension of disbelief to the breaking point -- and the episode even contradicts its own premise at one point, when Phlox observes the two species have developed a culturally symbiotic relationship.

The entire reason the Prime Directive exists as a story element, is to signal how moral and upstanding the main characters are by violating it to save people.
 
Pol Pots Pooter said:
It'd probably come across better if, in the entire of Star Trek's body of work writers could produce a Prime Directive script that wasn't horrendously contrived, chock full of absolute nonsense, and at its best wasn't a half-cocked ass pull to try to justify it under "well, it wasn't the least ethical thing we could do" crap. Closest we ever got was the Enterprise episode where Phlox discovers an alien species is genetically-nonviable, and while the genetic flaws could be corrected it would be at the expense of another species. Even then the logical hoops the plot has to follow to get from premise to conclusion strain suspension of disbelief to the breaking point -- and the episode even contradicts its own premise at one point, when Phlox observes the two species have developed a culturally symbiotic relationship.

The entire reason the Prime Directive exists as a story element, is to signal how moral and upstanding the main characters are by violating it to save people.
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Star Trek really, really needed an episode that thoroughly diseccted the Prime Directive and would come to a conclusion that although it once had the best of intentions, it was now used to justify deaths via non-intervention more often than it was used to prevent colonization and exploitation of pre-warp civilizations.
 
The Prime Directive is at least somewhat justifiable when it comes to dealing with internal politics of other worlds. It's too easy to just insert yourself on the side of the "good guys" and end up endlessly entangled in civil/planetary conflicts that make things worse or force you to stay there playing god forever. Okay, maybe. The problem though is that they extend it to natural disasters, diseases and whole heaps of things that turn them from at least reasonably conflicted to cynically evil. "Sorry we can't help destroy that asteroid that's going to exterminate your world, you never know if one of the lives we save will turn out to be the next Hitler, good luck" ...... what? That rationale could just as easily be used on any person you see drowning or any ship in distress they uncover. They don't know all the descendants that person could have. It might be another Hitler. Better kill them. Of course one of their descendants could also be the person that kills the next space Hitler, but we won't hurt our brains too much thinking about that... don't we have some games to play on the holodeck?
 
GentlemanFaggot said:
Star Trek really, really needed an episode that thoroughly diseccted the Prime Directive and would come to a conclusion that although it once had the best of intentions, it was now used to justify deaths via non-intervention more often than it was used to prevent colonization and exploitation of pre-warp civilizations.
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The two Orville "Prime Directive" episodes in the first season had fun and actually creative takes on it. On one hand, they had the SJW planet where they had to pull LaMarr's ass out of the frying pan without making their presence known, that ended on a little bit of a hopeful note when the chick decided their cancel culture was stupid. On the other, they had the planet that phased through time and Kelly accidentally started a religion, only to come full circle when the planet eventually reappeared more technologically advanced than they were. The entire Kaylon arc in the second season was somehow the biggest argument for a Prime Directive, and against it, at the same time.
 
GentlemanFaggot said:
Star Trek really, really needed an episode that thoroughly diseccted the Prime Directive and would come to a conclusion that although it once had the best of intentions, it was now used to justify deaths via non-intervention more often than it was used to prevent colonization and exploitation of pre-warp civilizations.
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That was pretty much Pen Pals.
 
Pol Pots Pooter said:
The two Orville "Prime Directive" episodes in the first season had fun and actually creative takes on it. On one hand, they had the SJW planet where they had to pull LaMarr's ass out of the frying pan without making their presence known, that ended on a little bit of a hopeful note when the chick decided their cancel culture was stupid. On the other, they had the planet that phased through time and Kelly accidentally started a religion, only to come full circle when the planet eventually reappeared more technologically advanced than they were. The entire Kaylon arc in the second season was somehow the biggest argument for a Prime Directive, and against it, at the same time.
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Other Prime Directive incidents included the Orville dismantling an asteroid headed toward a primitive world, the giant colony ship that was flying right into a sun, rescuing survivors of a doomed world from dying from their expanding sun. That last group is relevant cause they asked for help, Ed and Claire didn't drop their pants and starting rubbing them out while playing God unlike Archer and Phlox in Enterprise.
 
Uranus Pink said:
Other Prime Directive incidents included the Orville dismantling an asteroid headed toward a primitive world, the giant colony ship that was flying right into a sun, rescuing survivors of a doomed world from dying from their expanding sun. That last group is relevant cause they asked for help, Ed and Claire didn't drop their pants and starting rubbing them out while playing God unlike Archer and Phlox in Enterprise.
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Not to be nitpicky, I just don't personally consider those "Prime Directive" episodes as such because the main conflicts in those episodes aren't about the ethics of intervening on behalf of technologically under-developed societies in need. It seems to be a given in Orville that if they can help a society in need they should, but overtly meddling with their development is the line.

The last two episodes wouldn't even be PD episodes as such within Trek canon. "The World is Hollow" establishes aiding a society that's simply technologically regressed isn't a PD violation; "Pen Pals" established a society capable of detecting Federation ships, making contact, and requesting aid suspends the PD. I know it's a stupid point, but I'm making it to point out how dodgy Trek handles Prime Directive episodes to begin with.
 
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