Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Negilum]

One thing I've always wondered about that scene, considering that Quark doesn't actually speak any "hu-mon" language, do the Universal Translators both translate onscreen and on-cup text into the Romanized alphabet and translate commercial jingles so they rhyme in English?

yes.

Speaking of Quark...

View attachment 1042300

Armin Shimerman on Twitter

“It is with great heartache and loss I share with you the passing of dear,dear Rene Auberjonois.His last message to me was entitled "Don't forget..." I know that I,Kitty,and all that knew him will never forget.The world seems noticeably emptier now. I loved him.”

twitter.com

"Don't you get it? I'm not trying to save you. I'm taking you along as emergency rations. If you die, I'm gonna eat you."
"You're joking."
"Waste not, want not."

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

https://twitter.com/RaymondMcNeel/status/1203913586667638784

Also starring Andy Robinson, who played Garak on DS9.

 

[Kerr Avon]

That's the really fucking horrifying part.

I wonder if she had anything to do with Nick Meyer leaving

The thing is, she's the only one at Secret Hideout to have some kind of sci-fi background. The rest of the writing team all come from CW teen drama shows.

 

[Miller]

I wonder if she had anything to do with Nick Meyer leaving

I don't think so, he left around the same time that Fuller was fired. If I'm not mistaken, all he did was pitch an idea for a Khan spin-off but CBS never contacted him back. Kurtzman already had control over the franchise anyway.

 

[Oaat]

My best guess is that they didn't have Gene running in to the writers' room to tip his fedora anymore, so a lot of TNG episodes had a far more spiritual take than the clearly secular TOS. Picard in particular speaks of there being a "divine plan" to the universe that's beyond mortal comprehension, which, considering their numerous encounters with Q, I wouldn't be comfortable with whatever plan Q has in store for me.

Wasn't it the opposite though? In TOS the ship had a chapel and they mention God at points. (They make a computer self-destruct by convincing it that murder is a sin I think.) While in TNG's Who Watches the Watchers Picard talks about religion leading to dark ages and another character says it will cause holy wars. (That episode is the obvious example but there's probably others I'm forgetting.)

 

[UnKillFill]

Wasn't it the opposite though? In TOS the ship had a chapel and they mention God at points. (They make a computer self-destruct by convincing it that murder is a sin I think.) While in TNG's Who Watches the Watchers Picard talks about religion leading to dark ages and another character says it will cause holy wars. (That episode is the obvious example but there's probably others I'm forgetting.)

Yes, religion is (seemingly) a thing in TOS. Not only did the ship have an actual chapel, they also had a nurse *named* Chapel.

Also, Picard is all the bad stereotypes of atheists...

 

[Opiophile]

I just finished watching Voyager for the first time, and man, was that finale fucking good. In my opinion it's the best finale between itself, TNG and DS9. DS9's was close, but left mewanting in some respects. I thought they wrapped up Voyager in a nice little bow.

I wish I hadn't so stubbornly refused to watch any Star Trek series other than TOS/TNG for so long. The other two are just as good in a lot of ways, and in some ways perhaps better. Regardless, I'm glad they exist, since I think they are an important optimistic view of our possible future, however unrealistic that might be.

 

[Oaat]

I just finished watching Voyager for the first time, and man, was that finale fucking good. In my opinion it's the best finale between itself, TNG and DS9. DS9's was close, but left mewanting in some respects. I thought they wrapped up Voyager in a nice little bow.

They went back in time to erase a timeline that would have been more interesting. Same as Year of Hell.

 

[Miller]

I just finished watching Voyager for the first time, and man, was that finale fucking good. In my opinion it's the best finale between itself, TNG and DS9. DS9's was close, but left mewanting in some respects. I thought they wrapped up Voyager in a nice little bow.

I disagree, to me it was another episode of Janeway the control freak. This time she doesn't like being on Earth and see her former crewmates have a happy and interesting life despite having lost a few people along the way so she goes back in time to rewrite history.

Also, Picard is all the bad stereotypes of atheists...

I love the episode The Neutral Zone just for the way they wrote Picard. I bet they didn't notice that they wrote him as a pretentious fedora douchebag and made the "past" look more interesting than the future.

 

[Negilum]

Wasn't it the opposite though? In TOS the ship had a chapel and they mention God at points. (They make a computer self-destruct by convincing it that murder is a sin I think.) While in TNG's Who Watches the Watchers Picard talks about religion leading to dark ages and another character says it will cause holy wars. (That episode is the obvious example but there's probably others I'm forgetting.)

You're right my b. It's not surprising considering that TNG ran 20 years after TOS. Although, I'm sure that TNG would've had a lot more fedora tipping if Roddenberry lived past the first season.

I just finished watching Voyager for the first time, and man, was that finale fucking good. In my opinion it's the best finale between itself, TNG and DS9. DS9's was close, but left mewanting in some respects. I thought they wrapped up Voyager in a nice little bow.

I wish I hadn't so stubbornly refused to watch any Star Trek series other than TOS/TNG for so long. The other two are just as good in a lot of ways, and in some ways perhaps better. Regardless, I'm glad they exist, since I think they are an important optimistic view of our possible future, however unrealistic that might be.

I'm glad you're able to enjoy Voyager, really, all the power to you. I personally can't stand it, and considering the lost potential for a ship exploring the great unkown of the Delta Quadrant, I wish it hadn't been made.

 

[Lithos]

I wish one of the ideas that was floated about for Voyager was that by the time they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, Voyager would look like some patchwork nightmare because of them having to grab all the pieces of ships from other races for when they got attacked. Which reminds me, I did kind of like the phage Vidiians, and having Voyager look like the starship equivalent to one of them would be neat. And that some of the crew would have been replaced with far more than just Neelix, Kes, and Seven. But they had to cut all that.

Having something that looked like Warship Voyager would also have been cool. Hell, with the Borg and the fucking Voth, I'd start opting for gunboat diplomacy, anyway.

When supercuck Steve Shives even mentions how Voyager always looked super pristine each episode, that tells you something. Same with sfdebris. The Equinox looked like absolute shit trying to truck its puny ass back to the Alpha Quadrant, and here the Voyager is, cruising the quadrant in a shiny new Intrepid despite all the shit its been through.

 

[Oaat]

I wish one of the ideas that was floated about for Voyager was that by the time they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, Voyager would look like some patchwork nightmare because of them having to grab all the pieces of ships from other races for when they got attacked. Which reminds me, I did kind of like the phage Vidiians, and having Voyager look like the starship equivalent to one of them would be neat. And that some of the crew would have been replaced with far more than just Neelix, Kes, and Seven. But they had to cut all that.

Having something that looked like Warship Voyager would also have been cool. Hell, with the Borg and the fucking Voth, I'd start opting for gunboat diplomacy, anyway.

When supercuck Steve Shives even mentions how Voyager always looked super pristine each episode, that tells you something. Same with sfdebris. The Equinox looked like absolute shit trying to truck its puny ass back to the Alpha Quadrant, and here the Voyager is, cruising the quadrant in a shiny new Intrepid despite all the shit its been through.

Ronald D. Moore once gave an interesting interview where he talks about these kinds of issues on Voyager, basically describing how Voyager isn't true to it's own premise. I'd post it but it's over the character limit, the part I'm talking about starts a paragraph before Part III.

I also found this bit that seems relevant to NuTrek, although it was written before Enterprise came out.

Spoiler

"The STAR TREK past—it’s challenging; it sounds like it’s fun on one level, and I thought that was an interesting way to go for a long time. But it has a lot of pitfalls to it. You have a very complex future mapped out. If you are going to go into STAR TREK’s past, say, pre-Kirk, you better have an iron-clad commitment to maintaining the continuity that’s been established, or I think you are just going to lose everybody. Because if you go back before Kirk, and you start screwing around, and you just don’t care what NEXT GEN or DS9 or VOYAGER established, or the movies, or even the original series, you just try to make it up as you go along, I think you just lost everyone. The whole franchise will just collapse, because it will have no validity whatsoever. If you are going to go there, you really better be prepared to truly put on the STAR TREK mantle and be the keeper of the flame. I think that is really hard for Rick and Brannon. It’s hard for them to do that, because they don’t like the original show. Let’s not mince words. They don’t like the original show. They have never liked the original show. They’ll bob and weave a bit here and there in public. But they don’t like it; they don’t want to have anything to do with it. If you are going to go before the original series and do something, you better have a change of attitude. You better have an epiphany about how much you love the original series. It’s all going to be about leading up to that."

 

[Flexo]

Ronald D. Moore once gave an interesting interview where he talks about these kinds of issues on Voyager, basically describing how Voyager isn't true to it's own premise. I'd post it but it's over the character limit, the part I'm talking about starts a paragraph before Part III.

From link:

What people remember about that show are not those plot lines. I think the true hard-core fans will recite chapter and verse of the episodes that mean a lot to them, why ‘Mirror, Mirror,’ was a great show, what ‘City on the Edge of Forever,’ really meant. But in truth, it’s really because they fell in love with those people. People ran around dressing up like Kirk and putting on Spock ears. They didn’t run around waving signs about the politics the show espoused, or what the sociopolitical commentary of the show was.​

Wow. He predicted what was wrong with Discovery years before it aired.

EDIT. Another one.

It’s not really speaking to the audience on any real level anymore. What’s happening is that it’s very superficial. It talks a good game. It talks about how it’s about deep social problems, and how it’s about sociological issues, and that it’s very relevant. It’s about exploration, and it’s about the unknown, and all these cute catch phrases, but scratch the surface of that and there is really not much underneath it all. VOYAGER doesn’t really believe in anything.

 

[XYZpdq]

unrelated to issues at hand

The entire reason the Prime Directive exists as a story element, is to signal how moral and upstanding the main characters are by violating it to save people.

yeah it's like the Robotic Laws, they're a plot device for a work of fiction, not anything actually binding in any reality

But yeah re Voyager's ending. It's an ugly mess of time travel and stupid shit with Janeway being right about everything sometimes twice and it jobs out the Borg like a bunch of nerds. So basically it's a perfect finale to Voyager.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Picard in particular speaks of there being a "divine plan" to the universe that's beyond mortal comprehension, which, considering their numerous encounters with Q, I wouldn't be comfortable with whatever plan Q has in store for me.

To be fair, Picard is pretty stubbornly resistant to recognizing Q as a deity ("You are not God. The Universe is not so badly designed"), but one of the best recurring elements of TNG was Picard's smug, materialist humanism getting punctured by Q's omnipotent trickster/mentor.

"The Trial Never Ends, Jean-Luc."

Speaking of Quark...

View attachment 1042300

Armin Shimerman on Twitter

“It is with great heartache and loss I share with you the passing of dear,dear Rene Auberjonois.His last message to me was entitled "Don't forget..." I know that I,Kitty,and all that knew him will never forget.The world seems noticeably emptier now. I loved him.”

twitter.com

That's a very moving tribute. RIP, Constable Odo.

You're right my b. It's not surprising considering that TNG ran 20 years after TOS. Although, I'm sure that TNG would've had a lot more fedora tipping if Roddenberry lived past the first season.

I think Roddenberry was pretty far gone even before that point. Didn't he want Counselor Troi to be a four-breasted hermaphrodite?

Wow. He predicted what was wrong with Discovery years before it aired.

Speaking of Roddenberry, and STD, it was pretty hilarious seeing Sonequa Martin-Green trying to argue that her show upholds Roddenberry's "vision." I guess it's possible that if one were to somehow drag Roddenberry forward in time from the 1960s/1970s into the present day, that he might jump on the "let's throw all the other white males under the bus in hopes of getting some pussy" bandwagon, but that seems pretty unlikely to me. The civilization of the United Federation of Planets as laid out in the 20th century iterations of Trek is basically Middle-American lapsed-Protestant progressivism, where all the races mingle and work together amicably but within the moral/cultural framework and under the implicit authority of The (white) Man, and that's not really compatible with the Current Year racial grievance-based Id-Pol assumptions that inform DIS's world-view.

TL;DR, I don't think Roddenberry would ever have been on-board with a setting where big, charismatic white guys who fly bombers and drive motorcycles aren't accorded high social status.

 

[Negilum]

I think Roddenberry was pretty far gone even before that point. Didn't he want Counselor Troi to be a four-breasted hermaphrodite?

Speaking of Roddenberry, and STD, it was pretty hilarious seeing Sonequa Martin-Green trying to argue that her show upholds Roddenberry's "vision." I guess it's possible that if one were to somehow drag Roddenberry forward in time from the 1960s/1970s into the present day, that he might jump on the "let's throw all the other white males under the bus in hopes of getting some pussy" bandwagon, but that seems pretty unlikely to me. The civilization of the United Federation of Planets as laid out in the 20th century iterations of Trek is basically Middle-American lapsed-Protestant progressivism, where all the races mingle and work together amicably but within the moral/cultural framework and under the implicit authority of The (white) Man, and that's not really compatible with the Current Year racial grievance-based Id-Pol assumptions that inform DIS's world-view.

TL;DR, I don't think Roddenberry would ever have been on-board with a setting where big, charismatic white guys who fly bombers and drive motorcycles aren't accorded high social status.

Roddenberry would get MeToo'ed to the fucking moon if he were still alive today. The man was a complete sex pervert, which to his credit, he was mostly open about (I think). There are millions of little anecdotes about his, um, eccentricites; but here are some of the more noteable ones are his scrapped ideas:

• Roddenberry wanted to Data to be the cliche 'nerd who secretly had a huge cock.' This eventually manifested itself as "fully functional Data."
• Since the Ferengi are an incredibly materialistic species, Roddenberry wanted their lust for money to be complimented by their literal lust. The Ferengi were originally meant to be EXTREMELY well endowed (think earlobes but between their legs), this would be incorporated into their design by giving the Ferengi giant cod pieces. This idea got cut, so they compromised with Roddenberry by banning all Ferengi fee-males from wearing clothes.
• The first season of TNG is the only season where Starfleet women are wearing miniskirts (it's also the only season Roddenberry was alive for)

Also, I don't know where the meme phrase "vision of Gene Roddenberry" comes from. Whenever the morals or politics of the Star Trek universe are described, it's always described specifically as his "vision." If any of you want to see what Roddenberry originally envisioned, then go watch The Cage, Roddenberry's first pilot for Star Trek. It's essentially a 1950s cerebral adventure serial set in space, where virtually every actor is a huyite male. Concepts such as the United Federation of Planets and full social/economic/sexual/racial equality were created by his colleagues. While Roddenberry personally adhered to these ideas, he would strongly disagree with 2019's interpretation: a r'etarded, black, morally ambigious (and also sexually ambigious) tranny ramming spaceships into alien orifices.

Star Trek is largely fantasy fulfillment for Roddenberry; an impossible future where humanity has evolved to be both rational and compassionate, equal yet clearly white/male, where your mini skirt wearing councellor has a pair of testicles and ovaries and also 2 pairs of tits.

From link:

What people remember about that show are not those plot lines. I think the true hard-core fans will recite chapter and verse of the episodes that mean a lot to them, why ‘Mirror, Mirror,’ was a great show, what ‘City on the Edge of Forever,’ really meant. But in truth, it’s really because they fell in love with those people. People ran around dressing up like Kirk and putting on Spock ears. They didn’t run around waving signs about the politics the show espoused, or what the sociopolitical commentary of the show was.​

Wow. He predicted what was wrong with Discovery years before it aired.

EDIT. Another one.

It’s not really speaking to the audience on any real level anymore. What’s happening is that it’s very superficial. It talks a good game. It talks about how it’s about deep social problems, and how it’s about sociological issues, and that it’s very relevant. It’s about exploration, and it’s about the unknown, and all these cute catch phrases, but scratch the surface of that and there is really not much underneath it all. VOYAGER doesn’t really believe in anything.

Fundamentally, Star Trek is an adventure serial that's set in space. There's nothing you can do to fix your TV show if all your actors are made of unlikable cardboard (cough cough, Voyager and Discovery). I don't care if the "Star Trek" franchise eventually gets scrapped, I'm hopeful that in some way the cerebral space adventure serial will continue (and it kind of has through the Orville).

 

[Flexo]

It's essentially a 1950s cerebral adventure serial set in space, where virtually every actor is a huyite male. Concepts such as the United Federation of Planets and full social/economic/sexual/racial equality were created by his colleagues. While Roddenberry personally adhered to these ideas, he would strongly disagree with 2019's interpretation: a r'etarded, black, morally ambigious (and also sexually ambigious) tranny ramming spaceships into alien orifices.

My only real disagreement with you is that while that's where he started, I don't think that's where Gene ended up, especially as the fame of trek started going to his head.

I'd be willing to bet that he was nominally, christian, at least agnostic and definitely christian culturally, but by the time of TNG he's gone full fedora tipping and no faith is allowed.

Anyway, to that end, it wouldn't surprise me if Gene would allow the culture of "you're so great, you're such a visionary" to go to his head and fully embracing the SJW cult for the asspats.

Though I do totally agree with you that he would probably be #metoo first.

 

[America's Giggling Gigolo]

• The first season of TNG is the only season where Starfleet women are wearing miniskirts (it's also the only season Roddenberry was alive for)

He actually died during production of season five. But his presence is definitely felt the most in season one... by season five he probably had no influence whatsoever.

 

[UnKillFill]

What is Chief O'Brien's least favorite alien species?
The Cardassians.
What is Chief O'Brien's least favorite type of exercise?
Cardio.
What is Chief O'Brien's least favorite bird?
Cardinals.
What is Chief O'Brien's least favorite spice?
Cardamom.
What is Chief O'Brien's least favorite article of clothing?
A Cardigan.
Who is Chief O'Brien's least favorite singer?
Cardi B.


What is Chief O'Brien's least favorite tv show?
Keeping up with the Cardassians?
No, STD.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I wish one of the ideas that was floated about for Voyager was that by the time they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, Voyager would look like some patchwork nightmare because of them having to grab all the pieces of ships from other races for when they got attacked. Which reminds me, I did kind of like the phage Vidiians, and having Voyager look like the starship equivalent to one of them would be neat. And that some of the crew would have been replaced with far more than just Neelix, Kes, and Seven. But they had to cut all that.

Something almost everyone forgotten was the Federation was primarily in the Beta Quadrant and smaller portion was in the Alpha Quadrant. Janeway if anything had chosen the scenic route instead beelining for the Beta Quadrant which would have granted safer passage through either Romulan or Klingon space to get to the Federation