Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Manwithn0n0men]

In my ideal timeline, a CBS exec comes out and announces that the next Trek show is going to revolve around the Romulan War, it's going to fully embrace the TOS aesthetic and Kirk's "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat" mindset, and it's gonna use Michael Burnham and Philippa Georgieu as the reason for why women were not allowed to command starships in Kirk's era.

I mean their are SO MANY great ideas they refuse to make

As for my Fanfiction

So the Federation is pressuring the Romulans and Klingons to grow closer to them. The Cardassians are like Eastern and Central Europe was Pre-EU. People are talking about the Cardys joining the federation

Rom and the Ferengi are trying to put political pressure to maintain the status quo

 

[Cyril Sneer]

I mean their are SO MANY great ideas they refuse to make

As for my Fanfiction

So the Federation is pressuring the Romulans and Klingons to grow closer to them. The Cardassians are like Eastern and Central Europe was Pre-EU. People are talking about the Cardys joining the federation

Rom and the Ferengi are trying to put political pressure to maintain the status quo

I know some people mourn the move away from "planet of the week" storytelling, but for me, the relationships and conflicts between the Federation and its neighbours/rivals are and will always be far more interesting than "met new bumpy-headed race, learned valuable lesson about ourselves, lather-rinse-repeat."

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

I know some people mourn the move away from "planet of the week" storytelling, but for me, the relationships and conflicts between the Federation and its neighbours/rivals are and will always be far more interesting than "met new bumpy-headed race, learned valuable lesson about ourselves, lather-rinse-repeat."

the Principle Conflict would be about a [Previously undisclosed] Set of human worlds. They broke away in the early days of the federation because it was absolutely Faschy. They end up involved in conflicts as proxies for the Ferengi [who have delt with these Terrans before ] and several Klingon great houses. These guys would be a Anarcho-Libertarian-Conservative utopia to compete with Gene's original vision

Events will come to a head where Star Fleet command gives a direct order to the Captain of our ship to violate the prime directive and ensure the "Right Party" wins the Cardassian Chancellorship

 

[TaimuRadiu]

How can you say Gene was a white supremacist, he was schtupping a charming Negress!

 

[Negilum]

you've wandered into drooling idiot territory. You can't infer the sincerity or insincerity of Gene's beliefs based solely on the cast of a network television show produced in the 1960s. Star Trek wasn't created in a bubble. It was created with intense pressures from the network and advertisers, and the show's leads are going to reflect that pressure.

This isn't really worth arguing about , the racial makeup in the show was a minor point in the bigger picture of my post about how Roddenberry's "vision" was something that came out of the brains of other people, and that Roddenberry was happy to be labelled a visionary.

The Cage had literally no individual who wasn't White in it, that was the pilot that Gene had the most influence on. Literally the show ended up becoming more racially and sexually diverse AFTER the network got it's hands on it and AFTER his colleauges began making Star Trek into a show about human cooperation/equality. Diversity isn't something Roddenberry was overly concerned with, I'm inferring his beliefs based on what I know he made. I know he made The Cage which has vitually nothing to do with visionary equality/diversity, I know he didn't create the Federation as we know it.

So if you give me a Star Trek Series: here is what I would make

The Klingon Empire is a mess.
The Romulan and Cardassian Empires are in Ruins
The Federation is wounded but still functional
The Ferengi alliance is going through Rom's reforms
The Borg are decimated
The Dominion is chasened

So the Federation is a Wounded Hyperpower that COULD dominate the Galaxy with ease

lets dig into that

You're forgetting the Breen. Don't you want to see what's under their masks? Here, I'll let you get a sneak peek.

Spoiler

While there's clearly some unresolved stories going on in the galaxy, I'd personally like to see a series set 1,000 years in the future, where the Federation has devoloped some technology that allows space travel outside the galaxy/universe. Considering advancements in CG, we could finally get some real lovecraftian shit and encounter non-humanoid species for once. I would love to see the optimism and idealism of Star Trek have to battle against incomprehensible, eldritch horrors.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

You're forgetting the Breen. Don't you want to see what's under their masks? Here, I'll let you get a sneak peek.

Spoiler

While there's clearly some unresolved stories going on in the galaxy, I'd personally like to see a series set 1,000 years in the future, where the Federation has devoloped some technology that allows space travel outside the galaxy/universe. Considering advancements in CG, we could finally get some real lovecraftian shit and encounter non-humanoid species for once. I would love to see the optimism and idealism of Star Trek have to battle against incomprehensible, eldritch horrors.

Yeah Breen were left badly damaged.

They did have that one episode with Data and the non humanoid aliens

So my show would take place on a Ship.

The CO of the Ship is a Trill (who dies) and is replaced by a young unsure of herself human second officer (first officer also dies)

The first officer (for the show) is a Andorian. And the ships counselor is a green orion woman

 

[El Gordo Ramsay Sex Dwarf]

F for Odo, he was by far my most favourite DS9 character. Time to dig out the boxset and binge watch it.

IDW just did a one-shot of Mirror Universe Voyager where Janeway is the self-styled "Pirate Queen of the Delta Quadrant", came across quite interesting all in all.

As an aside, just got a resin 3D printer and am now churning out 1/1000 models of the Starfleet Museum's Earth-Romulan War ships. To paraphrase Cyril Sneer, would have been a great setting for a new Trek show.

 

[Oaat]

In terms of distance true, however when traveling thru unexplored territories it is generally safer to minimize time spent where the maps would have "here be monsters" warnings placed on them.

The Star Trek Star Charts book isn't technically canon, but it's the next best thing. I've superimposed the local Alpha/Beta Quadrant territories in Trek over the whole galaxy:

Spoiler

(why did they draw "explored space" so weird?) Travelling to the Beta or Alpha side of the Federation really doesn't matter given the immense scale involved in just getting there at all.

iirc the size of the Federation used to be considered bigger, but later shrunk to fit the canonically slow speed of ships. It seems unrealistic that there could be so many sapient species crowded right next to us on a galactic scale, but I guess it fits with Trek-optimism, and the TNG episode The Chase could be invoked to explain this. (Also it's not the only sci-fi to put aliens right next to us, it just goes further with the concept due to lasting 50 years.)

Granted Janeway kind of made it a point to drag ass and sight see every single parsec of the Delta Quadrant does render this line of discussion kind of moot.

Can't argue against that though.

 

[Thank Fuck For Evil Otto]

The first season of TNG is the only season where Starfleet women are wearing miniskirts (it's also the only season Roddenberry was alive for)

To be fair, some of the men also wore miniskirts.

Virtually every cast member is White, and the vast majority are male; every non-Western character is essentially a token character.

A show created by a white man in a white nation composed of 90% white people, and you think that there should have been less white representation on the show? If it were made in Japan by a Japanese man would you boggle at all the Japanese people present? Even if the nation were 99% chartreuse back then, what would even be wrong with a show with mostly one single non-chartreuse race on it?

 

[Negilum]

A show created by a white man in a white nation composed of 90% white people, and you think that there should have been less white representation on the show? If it were made in Japan by a Japanese man would you boggle at all the Japanese people present? Even if the nation were 99% chartreuse back then, what would even be wrong with a show with mostly one single non-chartreuse race on it?

I feel like I'm going insane...

That's fine if someone wants a show where everyone is Japanese, but that show wouldn't be Star Trek.

Roddenberry's original concept was The Cage, the reason why it was casted so White is because concepts for the Federation (such as racial diversity) were mostly introduced by other people.

There's nothing wrong with a bleached tv show. The point is that Roddenberry isn't the "visionary" behind a future with social/racial/gender equality. It was other people, that's all I'm saying.

Eventually Roddenberry would embrace these concepts, but these weren't his ideas, they were other peoples. This is why his original ideas are different from how Star Trek turned out, because other people dramatically influenced them.

I'm not someone who cares about racial diversity at all; but Star Trek is a show meant to show off human diversity - and that wasn't Roddenberry's original intention, it was other peoples.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

You know something that has been bothered me is that as much as we complain about ST;D and gush about DS9, I'm not sure even brining the old writers back would fix current Trek.

I haven't watched the documentary, but people that have watched it say how the "what we left behind doc" basically had them complaining about how they weren't woke enough and how they would "do better", and they don't' serve praise for doing the bare minimum. There was even an attempt to do a Rowling and retroactively make Garak gay (unless he was bi? The show never said that). This doesn't make sense given he fell in love with Dukat's daughter, and he didn't seem to be interested in Bashir that way.

They are giving me the impression that if they cameback they would try to be just as woke as the current trek is

As much as I would love more episodes, Even if miraculously ds9 came back, current politics would still be an influence. Maybe it's for the best DS9 ended up nicely with 7 great seasons.

Incidentally I also listened to an interview of an old Voyager writer that said she loved ST;D.

Point is, as sad as it sounds, maybe not even bringing 90's trek team would fix what we have, if they are just going to be pressured to change anyway.

 

[Miller]

I haven't watched the documentary, but people that have watched it say how the "what we left behind" basically had them complaining about how they weren't woke enough and how they would "do better"

Ira Steven Behr is a pretentious piece of shit, he seems to act like he created DS9 but in reality without Michael Piller tard-wrangling him, the show would have been bad.

 

[Flexo]

The point is despite all the praise he recieves for being a "visionary" for equality, his "vision" was only surface level. Virtually every cast member is White, and the vast majority are male; every non-Western character is essentially a token character.

Oh for Pete's sake, EVERYBODY was a token back in 60s tv, even whites. That just had to do with the nature of the encapsulated episodes. See for example: Gilligan's island.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Oh for Pete's sake, EVERYBODY was a token back in 60s tv, even whites. That just had to do with the nature of the encapsulated episodes. See for example: Gilligan's island.

What would a "woke" reboot of Gilligan's Island be like?

 

[Flexo]

This isn't really worth arguing about , the racial makeup in the show was a minor point in the bigger picture of my post about how Roddenberry's "vision" was something that came out of the brains of other people, and that Roddenberry was happy to be labelled a visionary.

The Cage had literally no individual who wasn't White in it, that was the pilot that Gene had the most influence on. Literally the show ended up becoming more racially and sexually diverse AFTER the network got it's hands on it and AFTER his colleauges began making Star Trek into a show about human cooperation/equality. Diversity isn't something Roddenberry was overly concerned with, I'm inferring his beliefs based on what I know he made. I know he made The Cage which has vitually nothing to do with visionary equality/diversity, I know he didn't create the Federation as we know it.

You're forgetting the Breen. Don't you want to see what's under their masks? Here, I'll let you get a sneak peek.

Spoiler

View attachment 1046106

While there's clearly some unresolved stories going on in the galaxy, I'd personally like to see a series set 1,000 years in the future, where the Federation has devoloped some technology that allows space travel outside the galaxy/universe. Considering advancements in CG, we could finally get some real lovecraftian shit and encounter non-humanoid species for once. I would love to see the optimism and idealism of Star Trek have to battle against incomprehensible, eldritch horrors.

Damn, I want to rate you a winner for that Breen joke but quibble over other points. Dividing by zero isn't this hard.

 

[Negilum]

Oh for Pete's sake, EVERYBODY was a token back in 60s tv, even whites. That just had to do with the nature of the encapsulated episodes. See for example: Gilligan's island.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critisizing the show for being too White; people deserve to be homogenous and represent themselves in the media they create. I'm just using it as an example of why the whole Roddenberry's "vision" for the future is a load of shit that he mostly payed lip service to.

My point is that the whole racial diversity thing comes across as more of gimmick in TOS rather than something actually practised, sort of like a college brochure. TOS was really just enlightened 1960s Americans in space, it still functions with the same framework of a Christian, Western society despite it supposedly being a secular and multiracial society. That's not a criticism either, I'd much rather have the writers' not fully commit to their sci-fi universe than have them over commit, like they're doing with STD, and obnoxiously falunt their wokeness.

You know something that has been bothered me is that as much as we complain about ST;D and gush about DS9, I'm not sure even brining the old writers back would fix current Trek.

I haven't watched the documentary, but people that have watched it say how the "what we left behind doc" basically had them complaining about how they weren't woke enough and how they would "do better", and they don't' serve praise for doing the bare minimum. There was even an attempt to do a Rowling and retroactively make Garak gay (unless he was bi? The show never said that). This doesn't make sense given he fell in love with Dukat's daughter, and he didn't seem to be interested in Bashir that way.

They are giving me the impression that if they cameback they would try to be just as woke as the current trek is

As much as I would love more episodes, Even if miraculously ds9 came back, current politics would still be an influence. Maybe it's for the best DS9 ended up nicely with 7 great seasons.

Incidentally I also listened to an interview of an old Voyager writer that said she loved ST;D.

Point is, as sad as it sounds, maybe not even bringing 90's trek team would fix what we have, if they are just going to be pressured to change anyway.

There's lots of problems with STD, but what makes it so much more insufferable is the writers' constantly attempting to out woke each other. It might just be the premise of Star Trek's society is inherently flawed, which it is, but I'd rather see the writers not proudly draw attention to these flaws.

 

[Flexo]

What would a "woke" reboot of Gilligan's Island be like?

You cpuld do the entire thing with all black, Asian, Jew or Klingon now and wouldn't have to change a thing about the plots. It's a great writing example of "empty" tv.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critisizing the show for being too White; people deserve to be homogenous and represent themselves in the media they create. I'm just using it as an example of why the whole Roddenberry's "vision" for the future is a load of shit that he mostly payed lip service to.

I'm not getting on you about the white part, I even agree that much of what made trek trek belongs to other people, but complaining about roles being mostly empty just ignores the structure of tv storytelling at the time.

Like some comedian said: Kirk loses his best friend one episode, his brother the next, and doesn't care at all in the third.

Ironically it was probably mirror mirror that may have changed some of this but that's getting autistic.

 

[Jason Wynn]

What would a "woke" reboot of Gilligan's Island be like?

The Skipper would still be fat, but turned into a black woman who espouses the whole "big and black is bootyful! Suck it, haters!" attitude.

Gilligan would be the bumbling, soyfaced beta male constantly trying to score with the Skipper. Give him the 'tism as well.

Mr. and Mrs. Howell are an interracial couple (black and Latino, whites and Asians gtfo!) and Mrs. Howell is actually a mtf post op trans person.

The Professor is a limp wristed, lisping and prancing gay stereotype. Think Jack from Will and Grace dialed up even more.

Mary Ann is a third wave feminist who refuses to bake any more coconut cream pies until everyone there acknowledges her as the stronk womyn she is!

Ginger is the token evil white character.

 

[XYZpdq]

There was even an attempt to do a Rowling and retroactively make Garak gay (unless he was bi? The show never said that). This doesn't make sense given he fell in love with Dukat's daughter, and he didn't seem to be interested in Bashir that way.

iirc his actor started out playing him bi and absolutely looking to fug bashir's boipucci but execs (?) said to nix it

 

[Lackadaisy]

he didn't seem to be interested in Bashir that way.

Garak was gay as hell in his first appearance.