Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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I was doing research for a Star Trek Adventures game. Saw that the Data article was recently edited on Memory-Alpha. Got a spoiler...

Maddox created two more Data clones, one a male model.

Yeah...

Also, I like that Sloan threw in a few of Garak's ideas. Believe all the lies. Sloan said he was Section 31. Or that Section 31 had no central board and agents didn't even know each other. But hey, Kurtzman's gotta have his edgy show, as you all said.
 
TaimuRadiu said:
So I guess the Voyager EMH is completely offline? Completely? You know, a literal synthetic consciousness that has the best track record in the Galaxy of reclaiming Borg? Didn't think to put him into service on the Romulan Borg cube with his mobile emitter?

Do the Romulans know about the Bynars, aka Borg lite?

Am I watching a series that's setting up a exceptional time loop plot? Even more exceptional than the Borg origin in the novelverse, in which we can blame a woman captain for the Borg happening.

I still say I'd rather have seen a proper 13 or 26 episode season. No matter how much I hate this. There were a couple of good sequences involving Rios and Seven. So did Rios split his memories up into Horcruxes, or what?

Finally, Picard says he served on the Reliant? How old is he? I know what the Reliant's last mission was.

www.youtube.com

Chekhov's reaction when finding out derelict ship is S.S. Botany Bay.

www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
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iirc there's a few Borg origins, Shatnerbooks has V'ger involved and Starfleet Corps of Engineers had some random experiment networking monkey brains or something
 
Pixy Misa said:
Also... is it just me or did this episode feel completely disconnected from the last one?
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It really does. I honestly didn't know how to feel about this episode. I enjoyed the last one even though it didn't have much of a plot (and had this novel thing as "character building", ever heard of that, Kurtzman, you fucking hack?), but this one got right back to it like the last episode never existed. Which is perfectly alright in an episodic series, but not in a serialized show.

some of my thoughts again
  • small thing, but I really liked the opening shot and the choice of music. It did feel like it should belong in a different series, but still. It was very nice
  • I keep notes while watching the episodes and I wrote down "Event Horizon" about three times. With the opening cult-like scene of the not-even-going-to-pretend-to-know-how-to-write-the-organisation's-name getting images of ~horrors~ in their minds and killing themselves over them to Agnes going full WHERE WE'RE GOING WE DON'T NEED EYES TO SEE, it truly felt like a ton of inspiration came from that movie. And you know, I love the movie, but for Star Trek? Could work, but not like this. Didn't ENT have an episode where a Vulcan crew went insane which kinda had some EH wibes to it?
  • I was wondering, they never really touch on it, but how okay are Romulans with cyborgs? I know it's just human+robot parts, but I feel like there should be some conflict amongst their people whether or not they can be considered fully alive or some shit like that. I imagine someone who has parts of his brains replaced with high-tech robot parts should raise questions with the Rommies. They did work (well, seemed to have worked, it was all bullshit, I guess) on the Borg Reclamation project, but everyone was also cool with just yeeting them off into space. Narissa was also gentle with her aunt, but the scene felt weird. I kept expecting her to kill the woman because she saw her as almost as filthy as an Android. I don't know. Also, how wide-spread in reality is the hate of Androids amongst Romulans? Grin already showed a Rommie in TNG(?) mentioned their scientist also studying in the field, so besides it being a fuckup from the writers, did the Zhad Vashjiji not like, give a fuck? I have so many questions.
  • Rommies did 9/11, suprising no one.
  • so, Oh is a half-Romulan/Vulcan, which explains the mind-meld and all that. And she has a ton of power and has, in the post-money world of Trek, "paid off" the higher-ups, more or less. But how does fucking over the Romulans help them? I am so confused. I get that they're doing all this to stop the Feddies from making Androids and then eventually flying off to their homeworld and genociding them, but how does fucking over their own people play into this? Do they not care? Romulans were proud people and yes, they had power struggles more akin to, well, ancient Rome, but they still cared for their people. Did Oh and co. not count on the Federation not helping them after Mars? Or was this part of their plan all along and ??? Can someone fill me in on dialogue I missed?
  • so NOW the EMH comes and says Maddox's death was suspicious. Why is he so useless? Him being a part of "Rios' broken character" or whatever is not an excuse for taking a medical emergency lightly and then forgetting about it until much later.
  • I don't know, I feel like a planet surrounded by eight suns that were dragged there would be something scientists would know more about. It seems weird it's being treated as such a mystery. I understand, space is YUGE, but this is something so unique I don't understand how it could've been missed.
  • I hated the scene of Raffi and the 5 holograms
  • a relatively minor thing, but I was annoyed by the scene of Narissa just slaughtering the ex-Borgs. It felt like an insult to Hugh's legacy, like all his work was going to waste. I guess the remaining ex-Borg later being the only ones left and capturing Narissa made up for it, but it still was bitter.
  • Seven became a Borg Queen(ish) and it was boring. I was more entertained by imagining Janeway's face if she ever saw what the fuck happened on the cube. I did chuckle at Elrond asking Seven if she was going to assimilate her now.
  • cute of the show to mention they have optimism. Very cute
preview for next week was meh.
 
XYZpdq said:
iirc there's a few Borg origins, Shatnerbooks has V'ger involved and Starfleet Corps of Engineers had some random experiment networking monkey brains or something
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We went over this on the RLM thread and I've already broken those folks over the truth. Want me to bring it in here?

EDIT
There were several debates over the Borg origin in the books. Some of these are less stupid, and one of them does involve the V'Gyer probe! But the latest one published as of right now and was in the large, crossover book "canon" AND key to ending THE Federation/Borg war was...
memory-beta.fandom.com

Borg history

This page details the History of the Borg Collective. Intelligence provided by Erika Hernandez during in the Borg Invasion of 2381 suggest the Borg have a definite point of origin from a crashed and temporally-displaced Caeliar cityship, Mantilis, in 4527 BC. However there has also been evidence...
memory-beta.fandom.com memory-beta.fandom.com
In 4527 BC, the temporally displaced Caeliar known as Sedín forcibly bonded with three Humans from the 22nd century: United Earth Starfleet Lieutenants Karl Graylock and Kiona Thayer and United Earth MACO First Sergeant Gage Pembleton in a bid to survive the destruction of the Caeliar city-ship Mantilis in the frozen antarctic wastelands of Arehaz in the Delta Quadrant. Reduced to a state of pure hunger after having murdered her Caeliar compatriots, Sedín used her catoms to possess the minds and bodies of the Humans, transforming them into the first drones. Upon the arrival of a Kindir icebreaker later that year, the newly formed Collective targeted Arehaz for assimilation.

In consequence of the final free thought of Lieutenant Graylock (vowing that he will never be a "cyborg") imprinting upon the Collective consciousness, the new collective entity referred to itself as the Borg.
memory-beta.fandom.com

Lost Souls

Starfleet Captain William T. Riker of the USS Titan made the most difficult decision of his career to that point, and agreed to former United Earth Starfleet Captain Erika Hernandez's assistance to depart New Erigol and escape the Caeliar. Doing so meant leaving behind his away team, including...
memory-beta.fandom.com memory-beta.fandom.com
 
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XYZpdq said:
iirc there's a few Borg origins, Shatnerbooks has V'ger involved and Starfleet Corps of Engineers had some random experiment networking monkey brains or something
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Which is terrible. The best explanation is that the Borg are simply a possible direction for a civilization to go in once the requisite technology is invented. It adds an extra layer to the horror: The Borg didn't need some convoluted backstory to come into existence, they are a completely ordinary evolutionary path that could happen anywhere in the universe, all that's needed is technology and time. Q's behavior in Q Who seems to suggest that species like the Borg are just the kind of crazy shit you start encountering once you get more advanced and travel enough, an advanced species like 8472 had no trouble dealing with them, it's just that the Alpha Quadrant was introduced to them too early.
 
Oaat said:
Which is terrible. The best explanation is that the Borg are simply a possible direction for a civilization to go in once the requisite technology is invented. It adds an extra layer to the horror: The Borg didn't need some convoluted backstory to come into existence, they are a completely ordinary evolutionary path that could happen anywhere in the universe, all that's needed is technology and time. Q's behavior in Q Who seems to suggest that species like the Borg are just the kind of crazy shit you start encountering once you get more advanced and travel enough, an advanced species like 8472 had no trouble dealing with them, it's just that the Alpha Quadrant was introduced to them too early.
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Yeah kinda like the Xenomorphs. A lot of stuff really doesn't help to have a detailed origin.
 
Uranus Pink said:
Not a bad idea but the show Space: Above and Beyond
SPOILER

on was airing roughly the same time DS9 was on. And had done the rebelling synths plot which ST:P appears to be heavily ripping off.
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Yeah, that's what I mean. Picard should have went ahead and finished ripping off Space: A&B and revealed the origin of the synths as a war measure.
 
Flexo said:
Yeah, that's what I mean. Picard should have went ahead and finished ripping off Space: A&B and revealed the origin of the synths as a war measure.
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No argument on that just hurry up go ball deep with it instead of the current blue balling.
 
trekkor said:
Didn't ENT have an episode where a Vulcan crew went insane which kinda had some EH wibes to it?
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Yeah it was the weird metal used to counter the sphere builders alternate reality space toxic clouds or something the metal made Vulcans into weird zombie crazy people.
 
Miller said:
Actually it's not a big deal in this show, they made it clear with one of the characters who said that "space is boring" and that there are "only 3 billion stars" in the galaxy.
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Was that meant to be a joke? There's actually about 100-400 billion stars, depending on the number of red dwarfs we can't see.
 
Intelligent Calcium said:
"We're going to build a neutral zone and make the Romulans pay for it!"
Wait a minute, is that why they turned the Romulan supernova into a refugee crisis? :stress:
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that made me think, with brexit not being the disaster they said it would be and corona-chan turning europe into nazis that doesn't like refugees anymore, I can't wait for them trying to lecture people when the population is already past that point and it just feels utterly silly (well, even more than nutrek possibly can).
 
The Borg origin shit was from David Mack, a fucking hack who, along with Kirsten Beyer, are the king and queen of ever shittier Trek novels.

Beyer created Picard, wrote your favorite Tilly dialogue, is responsible for Michael Burnham, and wrote Picard episode five, the worst episode of Trek ever made.

Mack is now working on Discovery. The "control" shit was straight from his novels, although in his novels it's even worse. In his Star Trek, Control is some AI that's been running the Federation from it's inception, and is responsible for pretty much everything that ever happened.

The slaughter of secondary Trek characters is something they've been doing for years. I'm actually not sure there are any left for them to kill.

If the Trek novelists are getting more influence, then we haven't even come close to the bottom of the barrel yet. Thought Discovery and Picard were as bad as Trek could yet? Those motherfuckers are just getting started.
 
ZMOT said:
that made me think, with brexit not being the disaster they said it would be and corona-chan turning europe into nazis that doesn't like refugees anymore, I can't wait for them trying to lecture people when the population is already past that point and it just feels utterly silly (well, even more than nutrek possibly can).
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The Pah-Wraiths have gotten loose and are infecting Federation top brass and important citizens. This is done to shit on DS9 fans even more.
 
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Y'know, earlier in thread someone mentioned Sisko was the best captain but perhaps the worst character due to his lack of "inner monologue."

I realised something though, Sisko monologues more, his thoughts are shared more with other characters with Dax in particular being his sounding board. He doesn't quietly bottle it up like Picard does to blitz away with wine, a flute solo and staring at his ancient statuette in his ready room.
 
The Gagh Whisperer said:
The Borg origin shit was from David Mack, a fucking hack who, along with Kirsten Beyer, are the king and queen of ever shittier Trek novels.

Beyer created Picard, wrote your favorite Tilly dialogue, is responsible for Michael Burnham, and wrote Picard episode five, the worst episode of Trek ever made.

Mack is now working on Discovery. The "control" shit was straight from his novels, although in his novels it's even worse. In his Star Trek, Control is some AI that's been running the Federation from it's inception, and is responsible for pretty much everything that ever happened.

The slaughter of secondary Trek characters is something they've been doing for years. I'm actually not sure there are any left for them to kill.

If the Trek novelists are getting more influence, then we haven't even come close to the bottom of the barrel yet. Thought Discovery and Picard were as bad as Trek could yet? Those motherfuckers are just getting started.
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Oh your God. I thought you might be exaggerating for a second there...

Exhibit A:
memory-alpha.fandom.com

Control

Control was Section 31's threat assessment system. It relied on artificial intelligence and was located in a data center at Section 31 Headquarters. (DIS: "Project Daedalus", "If Memory Serves") After the Battle of the Binary Stars, Section 31 accelerated their threat assessment program to...
memory-alpha.fandom.com memory-alpha.fandom.com

Exhibit B:
memory-beta.fandom.com

Control

Control is a Star Trek: Section 31 novel by author David Mack. The novel is a follow-up to Abyss, A Ceremony of Losses and Disavowed. No law… no conscience… no mercy. Amoral, shrouded in secrecy, and answering to no one, Section 31 is the mysterious covert operations division of Starfleet, a...
memory-beta.fandom.com memory-beta.fandom.com

Motherboarder! It's nearly identical!

Hang on. I see Lal mentioned there. Let's go check her page...
In an alternate reality, Data's creation of Lal was delayed by several months, due to severe weather on Galtinor Prime and the postponement of a cybernetics conference there. In this reality, Jean-Luc Picard was able to focus on Lal's then-current presence on the Enterprise during his captivity by the Borg, thus allowing their destruction (and Picard's death) at the hands of Will Riker, who then became captain of the Enterprise. Lal survived a near-fatal cascade failure with the assistance of Dr. Noonien Soong, and was taken by Admiral Anthony Haftel to the Daystrom Institute Annex on Galor IV. There, she became the template for the mass-production of androids intended to go into battle against the Borg.
 
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