Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Space Police]

Enterprise felt like the machine that made Star Trek in the 80s and 90s for TV was just tasked with making more. They came up with an interesting premise to differentiate it but then it just cranked along making more Star Trek with out much enthusiasm. It was fine.

Except it didn't really feel like Star Trek because it was mostly stupid, boring nonsense that went nowhere with a few exceptions. Where's the awe-inspiring stuff and the scary situations they always find a way out of?

 

[ZMOT]

I loved the Andorians, Shran so very much. Combs never disappoints.

read and weep

At the time of the cancellation, Coto had hoped for renewal and already started to make plans for the fifth season. These included the expectation that the show would begin to cover the buildup to the Romulan War, as well as continue to link to The Original Series with references to things such as the cloud city of Stratos, as seen in "The Cloud Minders".[120] Another feature Coto planned was to have a "miniseries within a series", with four or five episodes devoted to following up on events from the Mirror Universe episode "In a Mirror, Darkly". The producers also intended to bring Jeffrey Combs onto the series as a regular by placing his recurring Andorian character Shran on the bridge of the Enterprise in an advisory capacity.

And that comes down to the same writers using the same paint-by-numbers approach to episodes and characters.

manny coto took over in S4, and was already writing for S3 with other writers, but it was too late at that point.

we really are missing out on some star trek kino by that cancellation. we could've gotten fucking catgirls!

 

[Screamer_2]

I don't have to quickly look it up, but wasn't there also a change with how it was written for s4? I vaguely remember something about how for TNG and possibly DS9 and Voyager they would let outside writers come in and write episodes. Pitch episodes etc. Which often lead to the better episodes. They stopped that and just had staff writers in Enterprise for the first few seasons.

 

[INDEED]

2. Watch Shades of Grey, Threshold, Come Along Home back to back to back

Threshold is actually OK if you ignore the last 15 minutes and mentions of warp 10.
Move Along Home was inoffensive filler that was at least a good DS9 character introduction.
But Shades of Grey deserves its reputation.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

With varied self-contained episodes that isn't a Law and Order type show.

the USA network kept making those well after everyone else, Suits is famous now but there's a reason people hated watching those shows in the early 2010s and loved the "seasonal arc" storytelling of breaking bad. that whole "status quo" stuff is nauseating for most people who are middle aged now.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Also re Picard and the Pegasus and *that episode* of Enterprise, it was one of the many, many episodes that Brannon Braga regretted writing.

Yeah, this guy regrets writing Threshold so much that he decides to go ahead and write a remake of it, calling it Extinction, for Star Trek: Enterprise.

Except it didn't really feel like Star Trek because it was mostly stupid, boring nonsense that went nowhere with a few exceptions. Where's the awe-inspiring stuff and the scary situations they always find a way out of?

To be fair, this was the grand finale of that Berman era. The mission is secondary to getting their holographic ya-yas out. The whole thing’s a resort.

While it’s tempting to dump all the blame on Berman (Braga was basically Berman with a different haircut), Paramount picks the worst people to steer this franchise.

the USA network kept making those well after everyone else, Suits is famous now but there's a reason people hated watching those shows in the early 2010s and loved the "seasonal arc" storytelling of breaking bad. that whole "status quo" stuff is nauseating for most people who are middle aged now.

I got sucked into Burn Notice early on, but the whole "Who burned Michael?" mystery wasn’t important. It’s the kind of thing that seemed like a big deal for a season or two and then, by the time the fourth rolled around, it’s like that *A-Team* movie, which spent two hours explaining the origin of the team, as if anyone in the was sitting there going, “Oh, I wonder how these guys came together.”

 

[crazedaze]

That time when Voyager predicted the AI takeover of the arts and the machines were replaced by even better machines in the end

 

[Tasty Tatty]

thought they could do quippy dialogue.

Quippy dialogue has been a disaster for modern media.

 

[Judge Holden]

Quippy dialogue has been a disaster for modern media.

Joss Whedon needs to be impaled Cannibal Holocaust style in a public ceremony at the centre of Hollywood

 

[Mystery Spy]

My problem with quippy dialogue is that it reeks of insecurity. “Oh, you’re not actually into this dorky-nerdy show—lol, you’re a Chad who’s ~in~ on the joke!” But you’re not. It just makes you look like a literal preschooler who can’t handle emotions more complex than giggling at fart noises.

Sure, maybe it works in other stuff—in moderation—but in Star Trek? It’s grating. If you won’t take your own story seriously, why should we?

As for the Section 31 movie: Kurtzman’s obsession with section 31 is peak anticlimax . Years of butchering canon, shoving it into every show and plot he made, only to churn out another Guardians of the Galaxy ripoff? And to make it more insulting, he didn't even write it. All that hype… for this? Even fans of Nu-Trek should feel massively dissapointed.

 

[Captain Syrup]

View attachment 6954719
That time when Voyager predicted the AI takeover of the arts and the machines were replaced by even better machines in the end

Oh great, now I gotta compete with AI which can do my job faster and won't even complain about it!

 

[Screamer_2]

My problem with quippy dialogue is that it reeks of insecurity. “Oh, you’re not actually into this dorky-nerdy show—lol, you’re a Chad who’s ~in~ on the joke!” But you’re not. It just makes you look like a literal preschooler who can’t handle emotions more complex than giggling at fart noises.

Sure, maybe it works in other stuff—in moderation—but in Star Trek? It’s grating. If you won’t take your own story seriously, why should we?

"Who talks first?"

Not Trek but Wars but it's probably one the prime examples of how badly to do dialogue. Establish new villain. Hint at back stories. Show immense power, the good guy is seemingly scared of the power and he's cracking meta jokes about the scene for the audience. Showing he isn't scared and completely undoes anything established about the villain being menacing.

Wise cracks and quippy dialogue can be fun, but all too much it is used when the writer can't actually thinking of proper dialogue. Got to keep it snappy to move the scene on. It shows the writer doesn't take the scene seriously, so why should the viewer?

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

That time when Voyager predicted the AI takeover of the arts and the machines were replaced by even better machines in the end

If it makes you feel any better or worse, Marcoss Plus was even further ahead of the curb with Sharon Apple back in 1994 as VOY series didn't start until 1995.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

If it makes you feel any better or worse, Marcoss Plus was even further ahead of the curb with Sharon Apple back in 1994 as VOY series didn't start until 1995.
View attachment 6956803

And Vtubing as a profession.

 

[Space Police]

And Vtubing as a profession.

Let's hope IRL Vtubers start attacking humanity; maybe that will turn more people against them.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

It wasn't a lawfully given gag order. It was a gag order to keep quiet about an illegal act the person giving the order was directly involved in. That constitutes an unlawful order. Legally its no different than if a general ordered somebody to keep quiet about the massacre of civilians he ordered. He's not only not legally bound to follow it he's explicitly legally bound to report it

What picard did was legally correct, there was an actual coverup of an illegal act going on and the people trying to keep him away from the records relating to it and issuing the order not to discuss it with him were involved in that coverup

There is also the fact a mutiny, the loss of a ship and multiple deaths were involved and that everyone involved lied during that investigation

Except that's not how it works either in the episode or in real life. Certainly one could argue he was not bound to cover it up to his own command (again that gets into the weeds about what/how exactly it was classified) but to take it upon himself to reveal directly to the Romulans that information would be not just career ending but worthy of jail time if it happened today. Ultimately the federation was violating a treaty with the Romulans. Fine. He can take that up with his chain of command, or rather with such a sensitive situation the senior civilian leadership giving his chain of command their orders. What he can't do, as a fucking ship captain is decide he'll take it upon himself to let the Romulans know about the classified tech Starfleet is developing by literally showing it to them. That's called treason.

To clarify, I'm talking about Riker. Picard fucking up is his own problem. Anyways, the standard I'm told between lawful and unlawfully given orders is "You better be fucking right." Which junior officers and even senior middle management officers don't have all the information to make those kind of unilateral decisions. As far as Riker is concerned, that gag order was legal because he couldn't prove the illegality or whether it violated actual Federation policy. Writer's fiat aside, the reason why Riker still has a career is because he broke the gag order after the Enterprise was trapped in the asteroid and the prototype was successfully retrieved, so he did technically followed the orders he was given. Even then, that wasn't certain because the end of the episode required him to attend an inquiry where he had to justify himself.

As for Picard, yeah, he probably would have been forced to either become Commandant or retire afterwards were it not for Writer's fiat.

 

[WonderWino]

As far as Riker is concerned, that gag order was legal because he couldn't prove the illegality or whether it violated actual Federation policy

No, as far as riker was concerned the order was explicitly illegal. He knew it was illegal and could very easily prove it was illegal. Why? Because cloaking technology in any form and the development thereof was explicitly prohibited by a treaty the federation had with the romulans. a treaty that was public knowledge. an order that instructs someone to violate or lie about the violation of the terms of a treaty is the very definition of an unlawful order

Everybody involved in the pegasus incident was involved in illegal shit and knew full well. Its why it was covered up and why riker was illegally ordered to lie about the circumstances of the mutiny

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

No, as far as riker was concerned the order was explicitly illegal. He knew it was illegal and could very easily prove it was illegal. Why? Because cloaking technology in any form and the development thereof was explicitly prohibited by a treaty the federation had with the romulans. a treaty that was public knowledge. an order that instructs someone to violate or lie about the violation of the terms of a treaty is the very definition of an unlawful order

Everybody involved in the pegasus incident was involved in illegal shit and knew full well. Its why it was covered up and why riker was illegally ordered to lie about the circumstances of the mutiny

And Starfleet Intelligence would just let that kind of whistleblowing happen? Especially when Pressman actually is right about the tactical significance of cloaking in general? This is a treaty signed with the Romulans "in good faith." "In good faith" where Picard has spent 6 years BSing them every time they meet. Treaties aren't really laws so much as they are compromises to end wars.

 

[Dick Johnson]

My problem with quippy dialogue is that it reeks of insecurity. “Oh, you’re not actually into this dorky-nerdy show—lol, you’re a Chad who’s ~in~ on the joke!” But you’re not. It just makes you look like a literal preschooler who can’t handle emotions more complex than giggling at fart noises.

Sure, maybe it works in other stuff—in moderation—but in Star Trek? It’s grating. If you won’t take your own story seriously, why should we?

As for the Section 31 movie: Kurtzman’s obsession with section 31 is peak anticlimax . Years of butchering canon, shoving it into every show and plot he made, only to churn out another Guardians of the Galaxy ripoff? And to make it more insulting, he didn't even write it. All that hype… for this? Even fans of Nu-Trek should feel massively dissapointed.

Quippy dialogue works fine in Star Trek if it's limited to a particular character (Tom Paris was reasonably quippy), but Star Trek is not built for characters that are constantly snarking at each other.

I'll even go so far as to say that the most bare-bones interpretation of Section 31 - a Starfleet Intelligence field team has to accomplish an important covert task - is one that could make a good movie or series. But it would need to be LeCarre-esque (or at least Bourne-esque), with a focus on the mundane tasks associated with espionage, performed by experienced professionals.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

Treaties aren't really laws so much as they are compromises to end wars.

Not only that. Algeron was set up in 2311 or the whenabouts. The cloak Pressman was developing was based on entirely different assumptions and technologies than the ones that were likely specified and defined by Algeron. Pressman could legally use the "see, this is not a cloak, all it does is phasing matter to a different phase variance; not our problem if the romulan snakes can't find it"-argument. A court drama episode about this shit would have been fun, actually...