Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Anime Goddess said:
This is something I have never been able to refute woke fanatics nor explain why I hate the woke version of trek.

They are absolutely right in that trek has always been liberal. It was always outspoken about racism, against capitalism, and we even had a lesbian kiss in ds9, back when it was a big deal, remember?

Yet, I loathe Discovery and Picard, but love Ds9 And TNG

What changed?
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Modern progressivism stopped caring about racism, capitalism, and such like.

Modern progressivism cares about modern progressivism.
Dr Who did not hire a 'female doctor', it hired a woke progressive doctor. If the actress had defied woke progressivism in any way, she would have been right out the door.
Star Trek Discovery did not hire a 'black actress', it hired a 'woke progressive actress'. The role of Michael Burnham is not 'a black american', but rather 'a woke progressive token'.

When DS9 and TNG played of progressive themes, they were genuine. When Discovery and Picard plays of progressive themes it's a facade. A sham.

Old school progressivism sought to assert human dignity. Modern progressivism seeks to destroy it.
Old school progressivism sought to give the voiceless a voice. Modern progressivism seeks to take it away.

Forget the idea that modern progressives care about things such as racism, sexism, or anything else. They lie about people being racist.

That's why in modern Trek when they make a "racism" episode they put in a one dimensional caricature of a thug that they pretend is what a border guard is, and when old Trek wanted to make a racism episode they sent Avery Brooks back into the 60s as a scifi writer and he has trouble publishing a story. The former is completely fake and there to make you mindlessly hate people, the latter is something that could have happened and is there to make you humanize another person.

Modern progressivism is exactly the self-righteous evil that old progressivism fought against, won against, and then fell to.
 
WhatIsThePunchline said:
Modern progressivism is exactly the self-righteous evil that old progressivism fought against, won against, and then fell to.
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The problem is where do you "go" when you win? The answer is invariably "home" leaving only the loons and fruitcakes to become the next parts of the front line. It's what we've seen with progressivism where life's losers latch onto the cause because they can finally bully people for being some flavour of -ist and a chunk of folks will mindlessly nod along to it because they themselves dont want to see themselves as that kind of -ist. Same thing's happened with every flavour of progressivism you can think of. All the people who wanted the same as everyone else got what they wanted some time around the mid 2000s in most of the Western world, and the remainder nearly a decade ago and thus fucked off home to live normally.
 
Anime Goddess said:
This is something I have never been able to refute woke fanatics nor explain why I hate the woke version of trek.

They are absolutely right in that trek has always been liberal. It was always outspoken about racism, against capitalism, and we even had a lesbian kiss in ds9, back when it was a big deal, remember?

Yet, I loathe Discovery and Picard, but love Ds9 And TNG

What changed?
Click to expand...
in addition to what other people have said, the writers of classic Trek would push progressive issues, but didn't resort to dumbing down the opposing idea to beat up strawmen.

Take Measure of a Man as an example. The writers went so far as to use a popular character, Riker (against his will, but still) as the vehicle to ultimately deliver the perspective that Data was just a machine, and it was ok to turn him over to the Daystrom Institute. In fact, the argument is so compelling it's what drives Picard to seek Guinan's counsel and ultimately find the progressive answer in response. The progressive viewpoint obviously wins out, but it does it while still elevating and giving credence to the non-progressive viewpoint.

Compare that to Picard, which, just for one example, wants to talk about illegal immigration and does it by having the one Latin character get kidnapped by thuggish ICE agents, who also trash his love interest's medical clinic. Then they put him on a bus to drive him to an internment camp while the rest of the crew receive moralizing sermons from everyone on how evil ICE is and how fucked their crewmate is during their pursuit of him. At no point does anything close to a pro-ICE or even just a moderate position on the issue of illegal immigration ever get articulated, by anyone.

Basically, old-school Trek persuaded, while NuTrek just wants to preach.
 
WhatIsThePunchline said:
Should be able to stack a lot of people into a shuttle. Can't imagine the heat or oxygen would be that much of a trouble. Pretty sure Picard's Enterprise could evacuate a ludicrous number of people.
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It's down to the replication technology they use for life support in trek, something about the limit it can replicate oxygen and other gasses and get rid of undesirable ones replication takes a lot of energy and under normal conditions the ship has no trouble with it but after a certain point it puts a lot of stress on the system.
 
Anime Goddess said:
This is something I have never been able to refute woke fanatics nor explain why I hate the woke version of trek.

They are absolutely right in that trek has always been liberal. It was always outspoken about racism, against capitalism, and we even had a lesbian kiss in ds9, back when it was a big deal, remember?

Yet, I loathe Discovery and Picard, but love Ds9 And TNG

What changed?
Click to expand...
The original Star Trek presented those ideas in a respectful manner and was willing to take a pause and say that maybe the other side was also valid because the world is complex. In other words, the Federation was very left socialist left in a lot of ways, but they had the view that you don't interfere with other cultures/societies unless asked, which is extremely libertarian or capitalist in nature, and they had situations where they had to accept that others with different ideologies were right and despite their own convictions they had to accept the circumstances. Think about something like in DS9 where Garak has the politician killed to start a war, Sisco is obviously livid but at the same time accepts that it has been done and achieved what was crucial so against everything he accepts the reality of it. It's not treated as a good thing, if anything it shows the failing of the Federation, but it's ultimately a complex situation where difficult decisions need to be made.

STD and Picard on the other hand have no such nuance, it's all very clear that they are perfect little angels and the other side are just fascists frothing at the mouth because they haven't committed genocide in the last ten minutes and it's bothering them.

I think this clip compilation is a good example of how Picard is in Picard vs. TNG, hopefully it time stamps correctly but if not 3:12 is where they cover the whole other cultures thing:

Just think about the contrast of Picard tearing down a Romulan only sign on a Romulan planet in the Picard show, and him in TNG saying "Why, because it offends our sensibilities? It is not our mission to impose Federation or Earth values on any other civilization".
 
Ponderous Pillock said:
The problem is where do you "go" when you win? The answer is invariably "home" leaving only the loons and fruitcakes to become the next parts of the front line. It's what we've seen with progressivism where life's losers latch onto the cause because they can finally bully people for being some flavour of -ist and a chunk of folks will mindlessly nod along to it because they themselves dont want to see themselves as that kind of -ist. Same thing's happened with every flavour of progressivism you can think of. All the people who wanted the same as everyone else got what they wanted some time around the mid 2000s in most of the Western world, and the remainder nearly a decade ago and thus fucked off home to live normally.
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And it makes for incompetent groups with bad social dynamics which make bad products.

Also, I guess when it comes to modern pop culture if you're extremely talented and creative and know what you're doing you can go to hollywood and try to make it as a writer and be treated like shit or you can just... patron yourself up, grab a streamer account, crowd fund some shit, self publish, what have you and start making money immediately.
 

Stoklasa really nailed part of the problem, there's a lot of this crap writing in modern TV and film, meaningless "meaningful" speechifying and monologue that's supposed to sound really DEEP, man but is drearily platitudinous and thinner than rice paper.

Movies and TV today have converged on a snarky comic book-tier lowest common denominator that confuses convoluted plot mechanics and overstuffed casts for richness, with White Hats vs Black Hats morality that makes pro-wrestling storylines look nuanced. Even "premium" material, "prestige" dramas that are supposedly targeted at an adult audience collapse into "Hollywood-diverse heroes must foil an evil scheme to enslave the oppressed", or else just pointless carnivals of nihilism and "shocking" character deaths.

While it's irritating to want something to watch and having nothing available except this childish and neutered Soylent paste, what's more disturbing is the thought that lots of people apparently do want this. They don't care that it's soul-numbing or that plots are literally incoherent, they just want their content ration, and their assessment of quality is based on how many OH SHIT DROP THE MIKE moments and OMG STUNNING TWIST NO SPOILERS PLZ!!!!! get served up. They'll gush about how a show is "10/10 one of the best things I've ever seen" and forget about it completely in 2 weeks because Disney or Marvel announced a new spinoff TV mini-series about a tertiary character's backstory. That's a cyberpunk dystopia for you.
 
Commander X said:
While it's irritating to want something to watch and having nothing available except this childish and neutered Soylent paste, what's more disturbing is the thought that lots of people apparently do want this.
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It's why I've given up on TV years ago and stick to Books, there is very little on TV that interests me any more even documentaries suck now there is never any depth to them just surface level stuff youd find in a school text book no deep down explanations of the history or science.

I've mentioned it before but there was a mid 90's documentary called "Tails of the Gun" that was really deep dives into the history of Iconic firearms, it was canned when infotainment became popular and the only firearms shows where those ones like American chopper but with guns instead of crotch rockets - the only place to find that now is Youtube and they don't like it because they think it's unfriendly to advertisers.
 
Commander X said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BiHo61Fw8RY
Stoklasa really nailed part of the problem, there's a lot of this crap writing in modern TV and film, meaningless "meaningful" speechifying and monologue that's supposed to sound really DEEP, man but is drearily platitudinous and thinner than rice paper.

Movies and TV today have converged on a snarky comic book-tier lowest common denominator that confuses convoluted plot mechanics and overstuffed casts for richness, with White Hats vs Black Hats morality that makes pro-wrestling storylines look nuanced. Even "premium" material, "prestige" dramas that are supposedly targeted at an adult audience collapse into "Hollywood-diverse heroes must foil an evil scheme to enslave the oppressed", or else just pointless carnivals of nihilism and "shocking" character deaths.

While it's irritating to want something to watch and having nothing available except this childish and neutered Soylent paste, what's more disturbing is the thought that lots of people apparently do want this. They don't care that it's soul-numbing or that plots are literally incoherent, they just want their content ration, and their assessment of quality is based on how many OH SHIT DROP THE MIKE moments and OMG STUNNING TWIST NO SPOILERS PLZ!!!!! get served up. They'll gush about how a show is "10/10 one of the best things I've ever seen" and forget about it completely in 2 weeks because Disney or Marvel announced a new spinoff TV mini-series about a tertiary character's backstory. That's a cyberpunk dystopia for you.
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I hate how on the nose that speech was, and it doesn't just apply to Picard. That dumb ass wishy washy way of speaking propagates everywhere now
 
I legit cant believe that New Trek stoop so low as to legit claim, with no irony, Jan 6 was the event that lead to the second civil war, then the Eugenic wars and then World War fucking 3

I truly felt like hitting my head against the wall repeatedly while shouting " HOW .CAN. SOMEONE .MISS. THE. FUCKING. POINT. OF. THIS. FUCKING. BRAND. SO. GOD. DAMN. MUUUUUCH!?"

I told my friend this "Thats legit is if we somehow get another fucking Terminator movie and we are told that Skynet didnt destroy us all alone but that conservatives helped Skynet into power because Skynet promised to get rid of those damn " insert people conservatives dont like according to leftists ""

Really had no hopes for Strange New Worlds but I couldnt imagine how bad things could legit still get.

Just...wow.
 
The handsome tard said:
I legit cant believe that New Trek stoop so low as to legit claim, with no irony, Jan 6 was the event that lead to the second civil war, then the Eugenic wars and then World War fucking 3

I truly felt like hitting my head against the wall repeatedly while shouting " HOW .CAN. SOMEONE .MISS. THE. FUCKING. POINT. OF. THIS. FUCKING. BRAND. SO. GOD. DAMN. MUUUUUCH!?"

I told my friend this "Thats legit is if we somehow get another fucking Terminator movie and we are told that Skynet didnt destroy us all alone but that conservatives helped Skynet into power because Skynet promised to get rid of those damn " insert people conservatives dont like according to leftists ""

Really had no hopes for Strange New Worlds but I couldnt imagine how bad things could legit still get.

Just...wow.
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I was waiting for Trump getting reelected to be the horrible thing that happened in 2024. One thing I can say for them is at least they didn't do that.
 
Phalanges Mycologist said:
I've not seen strange new worlds yet but it's got to suck because non of the Piracy sites have it available for streaming.

What I have done though seen pictures and my god they have recycled a lot of the sets from DISCO and Picard.
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I mean, actual good Trek recycled props and costumes all the time. They even did it in the movies, that's not really the issue. The issue is SNW is going to suck too because the people running Trek do not understand what made it so beloved in the first place.
 
White Devil said:
I mean, actual good Trek recycled props and costumes all the time. They even did it in the movies, that's not really the issue. The issue is SNW is going to suck too because the people running Trek do not understand what made it so beloved in the first place.
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Oh I am well aware of that but it wasnt so obvious, they dressed them differently to at least look different but there are things you can just clock as DISCO made sets.

Also here is everything on one of the largest streaming sites for Star Trek -

Screenshot 2022-05-12 at 20-23-53 Search results for Star trek - Putlocker.png


They normally have a show and multiple links available in a hour after broadcast, for several days to go by without a single link is absurd.
 
Commander X said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BiHo61Fw8RY
Stoklasa really nailed part of the problem, there's a lot of this crap writing in modern TV and film, meaningless "meaningful" speechifying and monologue that's supposed to sound really DEEP, man but is drearily platitudinous and thinner than rice paper.

Movies and TV today have converged on a snarky comic book-tier lowest common denominator that confuses convoluted plot mechanics and overstuffed casts for richness, with White Hats vs Black Hats morality that makes pro-wrestling storylines look nuanced. Even "premium" material, "prestige" dramas that are supposedly targeted at an adult audience collapse into "Hollywood-diverse heroes must foil an evil scheme to enslave the oppressed", or else just pointless carnivals of nihilism and "shocking" character deaths.

While it's irritating to want something to watch and having nothing available except this childish and neutered Soylent paste, what's more disturbing is the thought that lots of people apparently do want this. They don't care that it's soul-numbing or that plots are literally incoherent, they just want their content ration, and their assessment of quality is based on how many OH SHIT DROP THE MIKE moments and OMG STUNNING TWIST NO SPOILERS PLZ!!!!! get served up. They'll gush about how a show is "10/10 one of the best things I've ever seen" and forget about it completely in 2 weeks because Disney or Marvel announced a new spinoff TV mini-series about a tertiary character's backstory. That's a cyberpunk dystopia for you.
Click to expand...
Semper fucking fi for that rant.
Also, the Stoklasa whimsy speech was so on point, when watching the RLM video, I was wondering if Mike was quoting an actual speech from the show and it took me a moment to realize he was just pulling it from his ass. And still it sounded like every clip of any Picard speech in this godawful show.

Stewart is high on his own farts, he thinks he can shit out speeches like this in this terrible show and they'll blow people's minds and alter their lives with how DEEP and PROFOUND they are. It's some sort of Messiah Complex, I wager.
Never Scored said:
I was waiting for Trump getting reelected to be the horrible thing that happened in 2024. One thing I can say for them is at least they didn't do that.
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They didn't do that. Yet.
 
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