Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Commander X]

I remember coming across old postings and such, dating back to when Voyager was still airing on UPN, about how the Star Trek franchise was a cash-cow that had been metaphorically milked dry at that point, and the past several years have shown that you can milk a franchise dry until the metaphorical milking machine is extracting nothing but air from a shriveled-up cow and still keep it going for years. Most of the long-time multimedia franchises have been sucked dry by the production companies and are in the hands of people who, where they might as well be written by AI. We see endless permutations of the same material, written by writers who don't talk to each other and managed by directors who try to incorporate the endless studio notes they get, no matter how contradictory or nonsensical they are. It's a lot of mush, full of dialogue that reads like it was produced by ChatGPT, plot points that are introduced and then forgotten, and endings that try to wrap things up more amateurishly and hastily than anything you'd find on Fanfiction.net.

 

[Gregg Turkington]

Finally got to The Year of Hell. Man, people did not exaggerate. That whole "Janeway running the ship by herself for six months" really cemented the fatal flaw of Voyager. Why should I care about the rest of the crew, when Janeway can just do that? Also, does Seven of Nine ever get less insufferable? I miss Kes. Paris in Sick Bay is boring.

Seven actually has a character arc, and her mixed with the Doctor are always a great pair (they are the only characters with good writing). Just give it a bit of time before you make a call on her.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rick_Berman#Critique

Wow. I love Rick Berman!

 

[Scritti Politti]

Year of Hell is my favorite Trek episode of all time.

 

[Scritti Politti]

Seven actually has a character arc, and her mixed with the Doctor are always a great pair (they are the only characters with good writing). Just give it a bit of time before you make a call on her.

Along with Mulgrew (and to a lesser extent, Tim Russ), Ryan and Picardo were the only ones who actually came off as professional actors rather than dinner-theater refugees.

 

[Post Reply]

Seven actually has a character arc, and her mixed with the Doctor are always a great pair (they are the only characters with good writing). Just give it a bit of time before you make a call on her.

Yes, Seven does have a character arc. The problem is that she replays that same arc every season.

Year of Hell is my favorite Trek episode of all time.

It could have been the season of hell instead of the two-partner of hell if they didn't hate continuity so much.

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

They weren’t wearing miniskirts in The Cage and the First Officer is explicitly a woman.

...about whom Captain Pike remarks "I don't trust women first officers, because lol women drivers amirite??"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rick_Berman#Critique

Dax performer Terry Farrell herself, however, has described Berman in The Fifty-Year Mission: The Next 25 Years as a misogynist who frequently criticized her appearance. "The problems with my leaving were with Rick Berman. In my opinion, he's just very misogynistic. He'd comment on your bra size not being voluptuous. His secretary had a 36C or something like that, and he would say something about 'Well, you're just, like, flat. Look at Christine over there. She has the perfect breasts right there.' That’s the kind of conversation he would have in front of you. I had to have fittings for Dax to have larger breasts. I think it was double-D or something. I went to see a woman who fits bras for women who need mastectomies; I had to have that fitting. And then I had to go into his office. Michael Piller didn't care about those things, so he wasn't there when you were having all of these crazy fittings with Rick Berman criticizing your hair or how big your breasts were or weren't. That stuff was so intense, especially the first couple of years."

Imagine that happening today, the niggercattle net would collectively shit itself.

I don't believe for a second that this happened, especially in the 90s. OTOH, given what we know about Hollywood and its total degeneracy, I also believe that this almost certainly actually happened. Ah, the duality of man.

 

[Scritti Politti]

I don't believe for a second that this happened, especially in the 90s. OTOH, given what we know about Hollywood and its total degeneracy, I also believe that this almost certainly actually happened.

I believe it happened, but I think there was probably more than one side to it i.e. Berman was a loathsome degenerate but Farrell was high-maintenance and touchy and caused a lot of drama behind the scenes, which caused Berman to rake her over the coals.

Off the top of my head I can think of two episodes that they had to massively rewrite due to her being high-maintenance. She was supposed to go undercover as a Klingon in Apocalypse Rising, but she had an allergic reaction to the makeup. She was also supposed to be more prominent in Rocks and Shoals, but she had an allergic reaction to the sunlight, which caused her to camp out in a cave for most of the episode. Berman had no patience for this kind of wastage of time and money, which is how both Garrett Wang and Wil Wheaton ended up on his shitlist.

 

[OrionBalls]

Year of Hell is my favorite Trek episode of all time.

So, you're the one.

 

[ZMOT]

i want us all to shittalk their old idea for a star trek series.

so what's the problem with it? picard passing the torch is hardly memberberries, unless you think barclay showing up in voyager was memberberries too. especially compared to the patrick stewart picard show.

Along with Mulgrew (and to a lesser extent, Tim Russ), Ryan and Picardo were the only ones who actually came off as professional actors rather than dinner-theater refugees.

I think it was more everything around it which made them give less of a shit. harry kim never getting a promotion or getting anywhere, iirc without the award he won he would've quit. and robert beltram was allegedly so pissed his character didn't go anywhere as well he simply didn't give a fuck anymore.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Yes, Seven does have a character arc. The problem is that she replays that same arc every season.

I've never seen everything wrong with 7 summed up in a single sentence like that. At least she gave us that ultra-based "all rape accusers are lying" episode.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

Voyager would have been better if it was all about Paris. He needed to be the central character. Just a cool Aryan dude loving and living on a diversity ship. He loves the 90s and muscle cars and shitty films you'd only see on cable TV!

Have the captain be more of an authority figure. But it's all about the adventures of a regular white dude in the 1990s, kicking ass, taking names, and getting laid.

 

[The Gene Genie]

Voyager would have been better if it was all about Paris. He needed to be the central character. Just a cool Aryan dude loving and living on a diversity ship. He loves the 90s and muscle cars and shitty films you'd only see on cable TV!

Have the captain be more of an authority figure. But it's all about the adventures of a regular white dude in the 1990s, kicking ass, taking names, and getting laid.

I think the main way Voyager would've been better was jettisoning the TNG-style "reset-each-episode" and instead really leaned into the narrative arc storytelling. By Season 7 Voyager should've looked like it was held together by duct tape and Harry Kim's blood.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I think the main way Voyager would've been better was jettisoning the TNG-style "reset-each-episode" and instead really leaned into the narrative arc storytelling. By Season 7 Voyager should've looked like it was held together by duct tape and Harry Kim's blood.

Well, that's what the Battlestar Galactica remake was. I found it depressing and found myself rooting for Tom Zarek and Gaeta at the end of it.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Now, maybe I'm just imagining things, but wasn't it the case that Terry Farrel left DS9 so she could work on Becker? All this "I was misogynised by words!" only appeared years later, once the Becker and DS9 money had dried up.

Well, that's what the Battlestar Galactica remake was. I found it depressing and found myself rooting for Tom Zarek and Gaeta at the end of it.

It's a great show, if you just pretend it was cancelled at the end of season 3.

 

[los pepes]

...about whom Captain Pike remarks "I don't trust women first officers, because lol women drivers amirite??"


I don't believe for a second that this happened, especially in the 90s. OTOH, given what we know about Hollywood and its total degeneracy, I also believe that this almost certainly actually happened. Ah, the duality of man.

Even if it did happen what exactly is the problem, aside from possibly being done more tactfully? Was she under the impression that she was hired for her acting chops? She was eye candy. Nothing wrong with that, so was Seven. But her actress also turned out to be talented in her own right. Either way all main characters have to have *some* kind of sex appeal, even if it is different for each one. Do you think if Frakes put on 40 pounds and started losing his hair everyone would just look the other way and pretend everything was okay? Nope someone would approach him and be like bruh stop fucking eating and get some hair plugs because your character is based on being a manwhore that swaggers his dick into every new situation and it's not plausible anymore to the audience. I'm sorry for her that being flat chested produced some uncomfortable conversations that required some simple solutions. Deal with it.

 

[Travoltron]

Now, maybe I'm just imagining things, but wasn't it the case that Terry Farrel left DS9 so she could work on Becker? All this "I was misogynised by words!" only appeared years later, once the Becker and DS9 money had dried up.

Yes. And then she ended up getting fired from Becker after all that fuss. They said it was because her acting wasn't good enough, but I wonder if there was more to it. (Like diva attitude.)
I've never heard anyone else accuse Berman of these sorts of things, so I am doubtful.

She later (briefly) married Leonard Nimoy's son.

 

[UnKillFill]

Even if it did happen what exactly is the problem, aside from possibly being done more tactfully? Was she under the impression that she was hired for her acting chops? She was eye candy. Nothing wrong with that, so was Seven. But her actress also turned out to be talented in her own right. Either way all main characters have to have *some* kind of sex appeal, even if it is different for each one. Do you think if Frakes put on 40 pounds and started losing his hair everyone would just look the other way and pretend everything was okay? Nope someone would approach him and be like bruh stop fucking eating and get some hair plugs because your character is based on being a manwhore that swaggers his dick into every new situation and it's not plausible anymore to the audience. I'm sorry for her that being flat chested produced some uncomfortable conversations that required some simple solutions. Deal with it.

I'm not so sure Frakes is the best example to use there. He got pretty tubby by the middle of TNG.

 

[Travoltron]

I'm not so sure Frakes is the best example to use there. He got pretty tubby by the middle of TNG.

True, but I bet he was indeed told to lose weight by Berman.

 

[The Gene Genie]

Now, maybe I'm just imagining things, but wasn't it the case that Terry Farrel left DS9 so she could work on Becker? All this "I was misogynised by words!" only appeared years later, once the Becker and DS9 money had dried up.

Yes. And then she ended up getting fired from Becker after all that fuss. They said it was because her acting wasn't good enough, but I wonder if there was more to it. (Like diva attitude.)
I've never heard anyone else accuse Berman of these sorts of things, so I am doubtful.

She later (briefly) married Leonard Nimoy's son.

Did she do anything after Becker anyway? Some actors who starred in Trek accept gracefully they'll always be whoever they played in the show and move on with it, and others get real bitter and try to chase the money however they can. I always heard that she left because Berman wouldn't budge on her re-negotiating her hours for the 7th Season and she wanted the money. I imagine that there was a lot of backscene stuff going on that hardened them.

 

[Travoltron]

Did she do anything after Becker anyway? Some actors who starred in Trek accept gracefully they'll always be whoever they played in the show and move on with it, and others get real bitter and try to chase the money however they can. I always heard that she left because Berman wouldn't budge on her re-negotiating her hours for the 7th Season and she wanted the money. I imagine that there was a lot of backscene stuff going on that hardened them.

What she was asking for was outrageous and insulting, and Berman had every right to be pissed.
"Rick Berman, you need to reduce my hours on this stupid sci-fi show so that I can go work full-time on the more prestigious network sitcom that I really want to do."

I find it interesting to see others that weren't impressed with her. She never convinced me that she was a centuries-old wise old man. I actually thought that Canuck Ezri was a much better actress, but the entire internet seemed to hate her.