Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Chilson said:
Admittedly, it was a version of himself that had spent hundreds of years yearning after a love that never was. I can imagine him being quite a bit more obsessive and emotionally compromised than the Odo we know and love.

It was also just a retarded episode because who honestly gives a fuck about a POSSIBLE future colony? No one seems to acknowledge that by consigning a large portion of the crew to die that they are destroying the possible futures of their own crew and their own possible future progeny that, as a bonus, wouldn't all be trapped on some weird world unable to leave (and allowing everyone to go back to their own families rather than settle for fucking their co-workers, though that would have probably been a blessing for O'brian in hindsight).

Sorry, also really needed an excuse to bitch about how stupid everyone was during that episode.
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They can't all be "In The Pale Moonlight."

"Children of Time" was interesting for the moral conundrum it presented, but that conundrum being the plot of the whole episode was not good.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
It would have been a better Voyager episode for sure. Might have even worked as an Enterprise episode too.
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Actually legit, it would have worked much, MUCH better for Voyager.

Though DS9 is the only real one with an actual moral quandary because there is a real debate to be had that without Sisko being the Emissary of the Prophets that the entire Alpha Quadrant would have been screwed by him getting stuck on the planet. So it's like... do you crash to save your descendants and doom the Federation? Or do you doom them to save the Federation?
 
Flexo said:
Actually legit, it would have worked much, MUCH better for Voyager.

Though DS9 is the only real one with an actual moral quandary because there is a real debate to be had that without Sisko being the Emissary of the Prophets that the entire Alpha Quadrant would have been screwed by him getting stuck on the planet. So it's like... do you crash to save your descendants and doom the Federation? Or do you doom them to save the Federation?
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Welp, sucks to be the Prophets in that case. They shouldn't have been playing selfish 4D chess all the time.
 
Hey Johnny Bravo said:
They can't all be "In The Pale Moonlight."

"Children of Time" was interesting for the moral conundrum it presented, but that conundrum being the plot of the whole episode was not good.
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While I agree with others with this being a better episode in any other trek series, even in those series I still disagree with the premise fundamentally being anything close to morally contentious. The only difference between the colony and every other possible future timeline is that Sisko and friends spent time with them.

Truthfully, there is no actual moral quandary here. There is only the emotional dilemma of preserving a timeline filled with a bunch of people you spent a few days with and kind of liked but having to sacrifice members of your crew to achieve it. And, as others have said, it was only made worse by the fact that this was DS9 during the Dominion war where the main cast is kind of really vital to win the war and save the Alpha quadrant. Everyone being just fine with it in the in end, especially Sisko, was truly jumping the shark given where this episode ended up in the shows timeline.

This could really have only worked in season 1, but the entire point of the episode was to reveal Odo's feelings to Kira which he didn't have in season 1...its just a real clusterfuck of an episode that clearly had no one in the writing room really thinking about it.
 
Wrapping up a move had resulted in some odds and ends in my office, found a old paperback of the James Blish TOS stories, flipped open to Garth of Izar arguing with Spock

good enough prose I dug up a copy online to get it right
Garth made a sweeping gesture. "Out there—waiting for me; they will flock to my cause with good reason. Limitless wealth, limitless power, solar systems ruled by the elite. We, gentlemen, are that elite. We must take what is rightfully ours from the stultifying clutches of decadence."

Spock was studying Garth with the expression of a bacteriologist confronted by a germ he had thought long extinct. "You must be aware," he said, "that you are attempting to repeat the disaster that resulted in your becoming an inmate of this place."

"I was betrayed—and then treated barbarically."

"On the contrary, you were treated justly and with a compassion you displayed toward none of your intended victims. Logically, therefore, it would . . ."

Garth bounded to his feet with a strangled cry, pointing a trembling forefinger at Spock. All other sound in the hall stopped at once.

"Remove this—this walking computer!"
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ngl I forgot how great these were, really puts me in the mood to rewatch the shows
I really love " Spock was studying Garth with the expression of a bacteriologist confronted by a germ he had thought long extinct. "
 
OK, so WTF kind of name is "Garth of Izar"? Is he supposed to be some sort of alien? But this guy was a starship captain in an era when Starfleet is almost entirely human. If he's human, why is he called Garth of Izar instead of a normal name?
 
Episodes like this really made Nog such a great character. I worried that him joining Starfleet would make him too... well, Starfleet. Instead, the writers got to do fun shit like this where a Ferengi integrates successfully into Starfleet while maintaining his culture and values.


RIP Aron Eisenberg. I knew he had health problems but, according to his interview in the DS9 documentary, he didn't even know if he'd live long enough to finish out DS9.

 
Travoltron said:
OK, so WTF kind of name is "Garth of Izar"? Is he supposed to be some sort of alien? But this guy was a starship captain in an era when Starfleet is almost entirely human. If he's human, why is he called Garth of Izar instead of a normal name?
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I assumed it was a title like Scipio Africanus. I guess he won the Battle of Izar too.
 
Travoltron said:
OK, so WTF kind of name is "Garth of Izar"? Is he supposed to be some sort of alien? But this guy was a starship captain in an era when Starfleet is almost entirely human. If he's human, why is he called Garth of Izar instead of a normal name?
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I assume that Izar was a planet, and he was so famous and proud of being from Izar, that people knew who you meant if you said garth of izar.
 
khaine said:
I assume that Izar was a planet, and he was so famous and proud of being from Izar, that people knew who you meant if you said garth of izar.
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I thought they had an aside about him being known for the Izar Campaign or something military sounding? but googling for a second looks like it's not specified in the show, some ancillary stuff says it's where he's born
 
Chilson said:
Admittedly, it was a version of himself that had spent hundreds of years yearning after a love that never was. I can imagine him being quite a bit more obsessive and emotionally compromised than the Odo we know and love.

It was also just a retarded episode because who honestly gives a fuck about a POSSIBLE future colony? No one seems to acknowledge that by consigning a large portion of the crew to die that they are destroying the possible futures of their own crew and their own possible future progeny that, as a bonus, wouldn't all be trapped on some weird world unable to leave (and allowing everyone to go back to their own families rather than settle for fucking their co-workers, though that would have probably been a blessing for O'brian in hindsight).

Sorry, also really needed an excuse to bitch about how stupid everyone was during that episode.
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I dunno, I like this episode. :lol: It’s got that "above-average Voyager "-style plot where budget constraints actually make things cooler. We don’t need a Sons of Mogh extravaganza—three near extras with a single line get the job done.

1000005343.jpg


More creative use of the Dax symbiont than usual, including Future Dax getting to glare at his younger self (you ruined my life, you reckless idiot).

1000005342.jpg
 
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Hey Johnny Bravo said:
RIP Aron Eisenberg. I knew he had health problems but, according to his interview in the DS9 documentary, he didn't even know if he'd live long enough to finish out DS9.
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I never liked his character until he was crippled and endured the horrors of war. I don't know why I feel this way about this specific actor or character. The genuine bitterness from Eisenberg's IRL health conditions bled through into a genuine performance, finally.

Hey Johnny Bravo said:
They can't all be "In The Pale Moonlight."
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I really like the nuthouse Sisko epiode because he basically talks like that for real now in present day conversations. Pale Moonlight has to be his best though if not the series best.

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE
 
Captain Syrup said:
I dunno, I liked this episode. It’s got that "above-averageVoyager episode" - style plot where budget constraints actually make things cooler. We don’t need a Sons of Mogh extravaganza—three near extras with a single line get the job done.

View attachment 7072879

More creative use of the Dax symbiont than usual, including Future Dax getting to glare at his younger self (you ruined my life, you reckless idiot).

View attachment 7072881
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Fantastic execution is the DS9 standard, having a crappy idea for a "morally grey" episode isn't.

Its premise and the ultimate conclusion that every main character comes to is poorly thought out and goes against their established motivations as characters. Which makes sense since this episode exists to serve as a stepping stone for the Odo/Kira relationship and nothing more, everything else is just an excuse for this step. A relationship that is one of the weakest aspects of the show and should have never been developed romantically in the first place.

So while I also enjoy the very same aspects of this episode, the overall sum is just bad and frankly I can get those same aspects from actually good DS9 episodes, so into the trash this episode goes in my mind.
 
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YautjaWeeb said:
I never liked his character until he was crippled and endured the horrors of war. I don't know why I feel this way about this specific actor or character. The genuine bitterness from Eisenberg's IRL health conditions bled through into a genuine performance, finally.
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I thought they handled Nog very well throughout the series and he went from something of a side character to a main, well-developed part of the show. Lots of characters on DS9 developed like this and the writers did them a lot more justice than the side-characters in TNG. Damar is obviously the best example of this, but there are others.
YautjaWeeb said:
I really like the nuthouse Sisko epiode because he basically talks like that for real now in present day conversations. Pale Moonlight has to be his best though if not the series best.
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ITPM is probably one of the best Star Trek episodes of all time, period. Does anyone know what the fuck went down with Avery Brooks, though? Cirroc Lofton has stated that Brooks has been blacklisted for some reason, but no one has ever elaborated. My suspicion is that Brooks doesn't have an agent and doesn't want to deal with one at this point in his life, but the industry demands that you have one unless you're a mega-star like Bill Murray. Some people on the Internet say he's kooky, but others say they met him at cons or other public events and he was warm.

Brooks was definitely weird in the DS9 documentary, but I'm positive that was Brooks punk testing William Shatner (which Shatner failed).
 
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