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- Jul 29, 2024
What happened with Reed in Section 31?
Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier
- Thread starter Snorlaxative
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2013
Michelle Yeoh's insufferable excuse of a character could have halfway worked as some intentionally over the top and cheesy villain for a handful of designated Mirror Universe episodes, much like how Mirror Kira halfway worked as a recurring "silly" villain or how Mirror Kirk or even Mirror Archer were entertainingly evil and malicious
The choice to have a very literal Super Space Hitler who is orders of magnitude more vile and despicable than Dukat ever was (even in the eyes of Ira Steven Behr) and is just a nasty fucking asshole to everyone around her, be crowbarred into the "snarky antihero who gets her hands dirty for the greater good and everyone thinks is super cool and stuff" role is honestly one of the most jawdroppingly terrible story writing decisions STD ever made, and I am including making the protagonist a literal "spocks never mentioned adopted human sister who was better and smarter than him and and taught him everything he knew and and and saved the whole universe fifty times and and and and everybody talks about how amazing she is" punchline in this ranking.
Like its one thing to contrive bullshit stories about how "we have to team up with her even if we hate her for being a genocidal monster on top of being really obnoxious because otherwise the universe will explode again" to justify having her as an ally to the protagonists in order to get cheap moral ambiguity slop, but having the protagonist treat her as half mother figure and half quirky gal pal because the writing team determined "being liked by the protagonist = morally good" and everybody around them nodding approvingly is genuinely almost offensive in its nigh solipsistic narcissism.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
I think that is selling picard a bit short. he was fully aware, even if he'd wildly disagree (but still willing to discuss it).
for all his positions he never struck me as someone unrealistic and leftarded. like meeting the dude who genocided a whole race out of revenge, and instead of going full retard accepted the situation and that he was beyond his judgement. same reason Q worked in TNG because how the writers let picard engage with him. didn't work with sisko and janeway was hit or miss.
but it's the big question if they chose picard as captain for the federation flagship and it's mission, or if picard adapted to it.
eh, she's fine when it matters and in the right role (which this one wasn't).
she's long enough in the game to not give a shit for a shit-tier show. it's a paycheck. not everyone is a christopher lee or gary oldman. heck given the shit-tier production they probably told her to act this way, just like everyone else is worse than a community college theatre group...
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2021
It had Loki type potential but they already branded Georgiou as “pretty cannibal lady,” you want a redemption arc for her? You’d have to retcon the entire Terran holocaust like it never happened, so what’s the point of even dragging out this Asian GILF?
That’s the goddamn problem with every mirror universe show, they’re caught in this schizophrenia of trying to tell you “this is serious drama!” while flinging pies at your face.
And blame DS9 for that. “The Emperor’s New Cloak” was so fucking embarrassing to Trekkies that it’s like it gave everyone trauma about doing straight comedy in the Mirror Universe. Like of course Ira didn’t know that Quark farting around on Terok Nor was going to metastasize into this, but here we are.
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- Feb 14, 2023
Mirror Ezri is still hot as fuck.
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- Jul 29, 2024
Fixed that for ya, bud.
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- Sep 7, 2019
up until STD ruined the mirror universe by dickriding it, it was more of a fun "what if" where star trek was allowed to have some bizarro fun, kinda like halloween.
nu-trek is basically halloween all day every day, which gets old FAST.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2022
Fucking kek.
Everyone regardless of profession knows a guy like that.
View attachment 7766593
>tfw asked what the fuck happened
This is the reason why I come here, lol.
+5 social credit score for a Sharpe's reference
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2019
Season 4 of Enterprise started having Section 31 show up for whatever reason and Reed was supposedly part of it or whatever.
Honestly if they had done like 3 seasons of them exploring, 2 seasons building up to a war, then actually showing the Earth Romulan War it would have been much better regarded. The 1st season was supposed to be preparing for the Warp 5 cruise. Instead there was a buttload of executive meddling, there was a dipshit Temporal Cold War, and that's how we got David Cronenberg playing Crewman Daniels in Discovery.
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- Jul 30, 2017
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- Mar 5, 2021
I think there’s an episode of ENT where they’re like, “Actually S31 is named after the Starfleet charter, not the Federation charter."
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- Sep 21, 2024
I liked Sloan. His actor played the part well.
Mystery Spy
kiwifarms.net
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- May 25, 2024
Section 31’s very existence is one of the most dangerous concepts Star Trek has ever introduced— but not in the way the brain-dead Kurtzman thinks. It’s because it undermines the core ideals of the franchise.
It’s not that they operate in the shadows or engage in morally questionable acts that makes them dangerous. Their very existence implies that all the shining, morally upright heroes like Picard are merely children playing games in a glorified playground, while the grown ups do the real work. That Star Trek’s ideals falter when confronted with the universe’s darkest realities—that the Federation’s ideas don’t really work.
Picard was a deeply moral man, which is why fans admire him. But he would never have made the choices Sisko did in “In the Pale Moonlight.” Covering up the assassination of a senator, asking help from a Tal-Shiar agent to do something morally questionable, forging evidence,and never revealing the deception? That’s not Picard.
There’s a reason the Enterprise never showed up, beyond budget constraints: they wouldn’t have sacrificed their morals to win. And the dominion war wasn’t a war that could be won by moral grandstanding.
DS9’s answer was complex. Sisko sacrificed his soul to save billions, but even then, it was their so called naive ideals like compassion—curing the Founders instead of Section 31’s genocide—that ultimately saved the day.
I think DS9’s answer is that you can’t always quote Shakespeare, brag about humanity, and lecture alien species to win. Sometimes hard choices must be made, but that doesn’t mean you have to become a monster. That’s what made Sisko and his crew the right people to save the Federation from the Dominion over Picard and the Enterprise crew,
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- Jul 23, 2019
Enterprise was away from the front lines during the Dominion War for reasons.
Whatever who cares we got lots of Worf and Klingon shit. Hey remember when the Klingons were massacring Federationers during the war the Klingons had with the Federation for some reason? (It's been brought up in the thread.) Then the Federation backed the Klingons against the Cardies.
It's always been hinted that, in fact, our heroes DO "sneak around," especially when it came to the bloody Cardies. Miles "six million spoonheads did not die, but six billion deserve to" O'Brien was trotted out a few times with that as part of his backstory since the cardie war happened before he was assigned onto the Enterprise or whatever.
Whatever who cares we got lots of Worf and Klingon shit. Hey remember when the Klingons were massacring Federationers during the war the Klingons had with the Federation for some reason? (It's been brought up in the thread.) Then the Federation backed the Klingons against the Cardies.
It's always been hinted that, in fact, our heroes DO "sneak around," especially when it came to the bloody Cardies. Miles "six million spoonheads did not die, but six billion deserve to" O'Brien was trotted out a few times with that as part of his backstory since the cardie war happened before he was assigned onto the Enterprise or whatever.
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Chunky Salsa
kiwifarms.net
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- Jul 2, 2024
Okay, but realistically the Bajorans weren't using those resources, and while people like to bring up the death rates on Bajor during the occupation; I would argue it's being misleading. I think we should look at some recent numbers from Qonos, and compare to during the occupation.
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- Oct 27, 2017
How the fuck does that make sense for a species with no concept of linear time?
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- Feb 12, 2013
The whole Rodenberry Box concept where early TNG was aggressively kept within Gene's exasperatingly if hilariously puritanical view of how humanity "should be" as a whole and with regards to individual characters and groups (i.e. everybody is morally upright and honest, there is no conflict between characters or emotional hangups, authority figures are always benevolent and enlightened, selflessness is always rewarded, society is perfect and free of all want and misery) was something the OG writers of TNG and their immidiate successors who ran DS9, VOY, and ENT chafed under for years and yet they still tried to keep true to even when Gene no longer had control.
It was not merely about respect for Rodenberry to keep the basic rules intact, quite a number of the writers have talked about how it steered them away from "easy" stories based around big splosions and gunfights and seething soap opera tier melodrama between the characters along with predictable "evil government conspiracy" or "edgy dystopia" plotlines which were in vogue at the time on TV which would have made the franchise just generic sci fi slop, and forced them to work their asses off in creating/ripping off stories that were interesting in their own right, or at least tried to be. Obviously this was not always successful as the writers could still fuck up or just be bad in general, as most clearly shown with early TNG and the rougher seasons of VOY and ENT, but even in badly written episodes there still remained the basic 'feel' of the franchise.
With Section 31 and a number of other aspects, DS9 tried to deconstruct the box and succeeded largely because it still kept tethered to the box even if it was pulling at its leash. The breaking and bending of Gene's rules was overtly highlighted as being a really bad thing even if there was justification, and the characters and story actively push back against this shit or reluctantly bit the bullet and hated themselves for it. In isolation, concepts like Section 31 and the other more cynical perspectives DS9 offered could have worked as the outer edge of how far the franchise could drift from the Rodenberry Box, but unfortunately with Nu-Trek the exact opposite approach was taken with the edge obsessed mongoloids using it as a springboard to vomit out...well....I refer you to what I said before...
...all of which were given a currentyear corporate woke paintjob just to be extra fucking insufferable
Ya know now that I think about it, a perfect way to show how genuinely fucking sickening the manner she was presented by the writers and expected to be received by the audience based on how much the protagonist decides to like her is to contrast with Sisko's relationship with Dukat
Dukat actively tried to charm Sisko, he repeatedly made himself useful to Sisko before switching sides to the Dominion even if he mixed this with trying to annoy or undermine him, and in this story he had actively saved Sisko's life....and yet all this hits a brick wall because Sisko fucking despises him for all the evil shit he did while ruling Bajor. He does let excuses about how Dukat dialed down the evil of his predecessors or tried to reign in the worst of Cardassian abuses, nor his upbringing in fucked up Cardassian culture, not even the fact Dukat is straight up mad with grief over his daughter's death temper his response. For all his excuses and justifications and attempts to play the "I was better than others" card Dukat is still an unrepentant monster who murdered millions and inflicted needless suffering on billions....the show's previously mentioned ineptitude with the actual numbers and such notwithstanding...and as somebody with basic fucking morality Sisko understands this and treats him with the contempt and hate he deserves.
As much as we may deservedly shittalk the show's hard swerve to "DUKAT IS LITERALLY HITLER GUIZ SO STOP LIKING HIM!" at least they had the decency to treat him as literal hitler thereafter and had been treating him near enough this beforehand for it not to be too incongruous. Contrast with Georgiou who the protagonist decides to love based entirely on her own retarded shaniqua mommy issues and melodrama despite casually out-evilling the entire fucking Dominion all by herself between the genocides, murders by her own hand, cannibalism, and general atrocities she is casually noted to commit, and all this is just swept under the rug because of how the centre of the universe that is Michael Burnham wuvs her due to how she looks like her old mentor and....thats literally fucking it aside from how she is written to speak and act like a BPD edgelord zoomer in a wrinkly asian granny body, which inexplicably makes everyone love her too.
I mean....fucking compare the clip above to how she was sent off in STD
Like imagine Dukat if he pulled the shit he did on Bajor and much worse on the entire alpha quadrant....and then imagine a scene of Sisko tearfully hugging him and talking about how much a wonderful person he is and....fuck me I actually made myself a little angy there.
EDIT: Oh I should not have looked up the script for the episode....I am gonna be fuckin seething for days about the scene where the whole crew comes together to talk about how much they love her
Youtube only has half the scene but it still is enough to make one choke on one's own contempt
This really does boil down how fucking heinous the morality of this show is.
Piss off the "good guys" and ESPECIALLY "the hero" in any way and you are the vilest and most despicable monster in the universe and your death will be justified and hilarious, especially if you happen to exist as white or male or some unholy mixture thereof.
Wow them with how much of a cool and badass and stuff girlboss you are by being a violent psychopath while also acting like a hateful and acerbic piece of shit to them and they will fawn over you and act like giggling teenagers over your scumfuck actions despite you being literal fucking space hitler so long as you hit the right demographic tickboxes
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- Joined
- Jan 2, 2024
After rewatching the scene, I got no clue. Best I can do is quoting the scene with the PC meeting the Prophets and asking about the Dominion fleet. So maybe someone reading this might have an explainable answer.
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