Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[ArnoldPalmer]

Picard season 3 sucked, I don't know who is so buckbroken by nuTrek that the slop we got can be elevated to the status of "good". Maybe just because 1 and 2 were so godawful it magically seemed better by comparison alone?

Strek Picard is like witnessing a train derailment with an orphanage on one side of the rails, and the complete original works of Van Gogh on the right and watching as it takes out the orphanage, The world still has Van Gogh, but everyone on the train is dead.

Oh, the orphanage? They're orphans, nobody's gonna miss 'em.

Season 3 undid a lot of damage from Seasons 1 and 2, but it did damage of its own. We did not need a second death and rebirth of Data. None of the Soong B Plot should have happened at all, but the golem rebirth of Data would only have worked well if they didn't kill him off a second time. You can't undo that without a time travel gimmick. It's fine, I mean, they had to do something to retain viewership, but it was such a Disney bullshit endcap to the TNG storyline.

I'll never forgive what they did to Hugh and Icheb though.

 

[Rabo 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Season 3 undid a lot of damage from Seasons 1 and 2, but it did damage of its own. We did not need a second death and rebirth of Data. None of the Soong B Plot should have happened at all, but the golem rebirth of Data would only have worked well if they didn't kill him off a second time. You can't undo that without a time travel gimmick. It's fine, I mean, they had to do something to retain viewership, but it was such a Disney bullshit endcap to the TNG storyline.

The first 5 episode had me. I was on board, it was nice, Shaw was the first likable new characters. But I had fears deep down it was going to become retarded. I knew the mystery building up was going to be a let down. (It was the Borg again, fucking ugh.)

But it all went to pieces after that. They killed Shaw. The Borg plot was absolutely stupid. The whole Data arc with Daystrome Institute. All absolute nonsense. Yeah when you see them all on the bridge of the Enterprise D my heart was almost swelling but I punched it down. "No! Don't be fooled, this is all dumb! Don't let nostalgia trick you. Bad heart!"

 

[khaine]

Season 3 of Picard was a giant pile of shit. The first couple of episodes are just the poor mans version of Wrath of Khan and Best of Both Worlds. The story makes no sense, with the changelings and the Borg (also why do the changelings die in space, when thats how odo arrived? The transporter thing is retarded. Jack is annoying and that emotional story is unearned, and ripping off Kirk/David.

It's just a giant pile of shit. Sadly, it's sooo much better than S1 and S2, that people think it's a masterpiece in comparison. Ice water for those in hell and all that. I'd rather watch Spock's brain on loop than any of kurtsmans shit ever again

 

[Captain Syrup]

We did not need a second death and rebirth of Data. None of the Soong B Plot should have happened at all, but the golem rebirth of Data would only have worked well if they didn't kill him off a second time.

It's like farewell tours and pro wrestling retirement matches: a joke, they just come back fatter and balder. I’ve been staring at Brent Spiner’s puffy face for two decades since TNG wrapped, and the magic’s long gone. At this point I think they just drag him out so Geordi has someone to orbit around.



They pretend they’re introducing new characters (Geordi’s daughter, Picard’s son) but everyone knows they’re just placeholders until the legacy characters lumber in, why bother investing in new blood when you know they’ll get bulldozed. Can’t wait for him to be measured against his dad’s legend and immediately fade into the background.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

The first 5 episode had me. I was on board, it was nice, Shaw was the first likable new characters. But I had fears deep down it was going to become retarded. I knew the mystery building up was going to be a let down. (It was the Borg again, fucking ugh.)

I hated Shaw at first, then came around, liked him and was pissed off when they killed him off for no reason. Assholes. I would have prefered him being the main character in the second half, but nope. We are not allowed to have nice things, so fuck that.

 

[Rabo 2: Electric Boogaloo]

I hated Shaw at first, then came around, liked him and was pissed off when they killed him off for no reason. Assholes. I would have prefered him being the main character in the second half, but nope. We are not allowed to have nice things, so fuck that.

I would have preferred they fucking killed Raphee.
No instead she gets to be best friend with Worf. Ugh.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I would also be grateful for some advice on how to show somebody TNG. I'm not even sure I could subject myself to that whole first season again, let alone her... But I know you just just ignore it all if you care about the story. Which I do.

Encounter at Fairpoint
Where No One Has Gone Before
Haven
Hide and Q
Coming of Age
Skin of Evil
Symbiosis
Conspiracy
The Neutral Zone
The Child
Elementary Dear Data
Measure of a Man
Contagion
Pen Pals
Q Who
Emmisary

That's some essentials and acceptably ok episodes from S1 and S2. After that, S3 forward is just banger after banger.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

To me ST-P committed the biggest sin possible in entertainment.

It was boring.

Not even the memberberries could save it. It covered no new ground and only was bearable when the new writers stole material from the old series.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

To me ST-P committed the biggest sin possible in entertainment.

It was boring.

Not even the memberberries could save it. It covered no new ground and only was bearable when the new writers stole material from the old series.

On the one hand, the show was intended to introduce kids to Star Trek, and there are times where they reference things only older fans will get (take the Kobayashi Maru episode not saying it's designed to be unwinnable). On the other hand, it felt like it was only using fanservice to get older fans to watch. The marketing was less "Star Trek cartoon", and more "Janeway's back!"

The worst example of forcing fanservice was when they had a Mirror Universe episode that pretty much invalidated the entire Mirror Universe arc from DS9 just so they'd have an excuse to show Janeway and Chakotay's counterparts.

Because it's not like a majority of Trekkies were sick of the Mirror Universe even before Section 31 came out, right?

 

[Captain Syrup]

On the one hand, the show was intended to introduce kids to Star Trek, and there are times where they reference things only older fans will get (take the Kobayashi Maru episode not saying it's designed to be unwinnable). On the other hand, it felt like it was only using fanservice to get older fans to watch. The marketing was less "Star Trek cartoon", and more "Janeway's back!"

I've got a little soft spot for Janeway, but it feels like a lure, and the main crew is giving me Ahsoka meets Minions. Honestly if i’m gonna torture myself I’d rather watch LD, at least that’s pure autism, no annoying OCs.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

Amok Time always hits home no matter how often you see it

Nimoy drops that killer line at the end of the fight.

T'Pol: "Goodbye Spock. Live long and prosper."
Spock: "I shall do neither, I have killed my captain and my friend"

Fucking brutal, both the line and Nimoy's delivery.

10/10

 

[Standardized Profile]

The twist is obvious, but the acting saves it.

It's got one of Shatner's best understated scenes. It might be the one in your screenshot: he's reviewing Kodos's history and there's a moment where he pauses and you can see all the pain of Tarsus IV in his face. For all people say about Star Trek and theatrical acting, you could put a camera right up in Shatner's face and he'd act the hell out of it. He wanted to do something similar in TUC, he didn't like the line "Let them die" and wanted to show Kirk's regret immediately after saying it. They shot it that way but cut it without that beat.

 

[Rabo 2: Electric Boogaloo]

I was kinda not completely hating Lower Decks. I'd watched a couple of the first episode that I torrented (Fuck paying for that. lol)
I had to like, be in the right mindset but it at least looked like Star Trek, with the nice even lighting and the uniform and ship interior designs I wanted to see. A bit heavy on the fan service and the main cast was barely tolerable with the obligatory "Street smart negress that's good at everything" bullshit.

Then I heard "They made Bashir and Garak a gay couple" and I deleted all my torrents.

A bit of a knee jerk reaction but I just didn't want to get to that episode. I later found out "They're holograms, not the real one." but honestly it just reminded me that during Covid, Alexander Siddig did this series where him and other actors from DS9 streamed themselves voicing a basically sorta radio play about some time later in DS9. I thought, sure why not, I wanna hear Garak and Bashir chat it up for old time's sakes. I couldn't get past ten minutes as Bashir was telling him he broke up with Ezri and was now a faggot. I was done.

Maybe 20 years ago I could have stomached it but today I just can't. I look at Star Trek as a show that was VERY progressive, in fact one of the most progressive show of it's times but it wasn't heavy handed like shit is today and when I just see the modern agenda I have a terrible kneejerk reaction. It wasn't always this way but 20 years of this shit had gotten me so fatigued I have so little tolerance for it.

Why can't two guys just be good friends?

 

[Screamer_2]

Why can't two guys just be good friends?

State enforced homosexuality.

It really is annoying because I find you now watch something and when two guys are good friends. You just expect them to end up making them gay. It even infects things where you know you should be fine. I watched the Chinese Ne Zha films recently. There's a ying yang thing with the two main characters and their friendship. Working together. I couldn't help but get the, "they'll make them gay." Feeling. Obviously knowing they wouldn't, but I am conditioned to it now.

It also goes that way with female characters. You see it alot, if they become friends, lesbo sex. Watching some show set in Ancient rome. Young woman looks at a waitress, you instant go, "Lesbians" and you're right.

I couldn't even finish the second season of Good Omens. First season was flawed but enough there. The story of an angel and a fallen angel and their friendship over thousands of years, teaming up to stop the return of the anti-Christ.

Second season was them trying to make two women fall in love as they discovered they were gay. I don't know if I even made it 3 episodes in before noping out.

It's all so predictable. I can't remember if I wrote this but the season finale of Strange New Worlds. When Pike and Batel's daughter was bringing a friend over. My bingo card immediately went, "Lesbian." I was wrong, but it was the old Bingo card. Black person.

Not that I even have a problem with this stuff, but there's just the way it is done and shoved in where it feels like you can see the Matrix code behind the writing and direction. It's predictable.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Not that I even have a problem with this stuff, but there's just the way it is done and shoved in where it feels like you can see the Matrix code behind the writing and direction. It's predictable.

I think the way Hollywood thinks about this stuff is basically the Principal Skinner meme. Like they just can’t admit the times have changed. They're still hooked on this “slow burn romantic tension” notion, when in reality the novelty at this point would be just giving us a strong platonic relationship. Likewise having a gay lead was a big splash when Dawson’s Creek was on the air, but now it’s like whatever.

Bad chemistry is just bad chemistry. Doesn’t matter if it’s a straight couple or a gay couple, it's way easier to rattle off terrible TV couples from the past twenty years than to remember a single good one. Who was our generation’s Niles and Daphne? Definitely not Jackie and Fez.

 

[Mystery Spy]

was kinda not completely hating Lower Decks. I'd watched a couple of the first episode that I torrented (Fuck paying for that. lol)

Unpopular opinion: I think Lower Decks’ biggest issue is that it’s clearly a tongue-in-cheek parody comedy Trek show, that they’re trying to force it into being a canon main entry somehow.

Honestly, it would be far easier to swallow if it were flat-out non-canon, or semi-canon—meaning the events happened, but the show exaggerates them for comedy.

And believe it or not, Lower Decks is actually the least offensive and most respectful of classic Trek compared to all the other Kurtzman Trek shows. It even has some genuinely fun ideas. Like the jab they gave to the ugly Klingon redesigns.

But as it stands, you’ve got a show running on Rick and Morty-style self-aware humor, referential jokes, and cartoon logic… and you’re asking people to accept it in an otherwise serious, philosophical universe. It just doesn’t work.

I mean, don’t get me wrong—it was never going to be as good as a mainline Trek entry. But a parody spin-off? Once you get past the elephant in the room—why they didn’t just make a real Trek show before doing this—it could appeal to a small group of Trekkies who enjoy that kind of humor.

As a “canon” entry, though, it doesn’t fit the tone or logic of real Trek. Issues like a clear Mary sue protagonist , that you could ignore as “jokes” now just become more nails in the coffin of Star Trek.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Unpopular opinion: I think Lower Decks’ biggest issue is that it’s clearly a tongue-in-cheek parody comedy Trek show, that they’re trying to force it into being canon somehow.

Honestly, it would be far easier to swallow if it were flat-out non-canon, or semi-canon—meaning the events happened, but the show exaggerates them for comedy.

And believe it or not, Lower Decks is actually the least offensive and most respectful of classic Trek compared to all the other Kurtzman Trek shows. It even has some genuinely fun ideas.

But as it stands, you’ve got a show running on Rick and Morty-style self-aware humor, referential jokes, and cartoon logic… and you’re asking people to accept it in an otherwise serious, philosophical universe. It just doesn’t work.

I mean, don’t get me wrong—it was never going to be as good as a mainline Trek entry. But a parody spin-off? Once you get past the elephant in the room—why they didn’t just make a real good Trek show before doing this—it could appeal to a small group of Trekkies who enjoy that kind of humor.

As a “canon” entry, though, it doesn’t fit the tone or logic of real Trek. Issues like a clear Mary sue protagonist, that you could ignore as “jokes” now become tone breaking.

So I'm watching OG Night Court and that kind of sitcom writing might have worked into a Trek show premise where there's still room for quiet, dramatic scenes. The premise of Lower Decks isn't bad considering it's named after the TNG episode, but that episode's characters fit because they're grounded and don't know why their superiors are doing what they're doing. But because Rick & Morty (and modern comedy in general) needs to be high energy, characters aren't allowed to do subtle performances. Something about Rom's performance felt off even though the original actor is playing him and I suspect that's true of all the legacy characters.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Something about Rom's performance felt off even though the original actor is playing him

It's because he's old.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Then I heard "They made Bashir and Garak a gay couple" and I deleted all my torrents.

I saw that episode, one of like three I’ve even bothered with, and what it looked like to me was self-aware fanfiction: T’Pol gets her Hallmark movie marriage to Trip because the fanbase never got over him getting offed. Bashir isn’t even Bashir, he’s a hologram, and Garak finally gets his gay fanfic payoff (which is ironic considering he spent the entire "Our Man Bashir" program cockblocking the other Bashir). Harry Kim just Xeroxes himself into infinity until he’s manning every station on the ship. It’s not Stonewall, it’s necro-fanservice.

 

[Flexo]

They were written as such until the last few episodes of the Shadow War arc, when the notion of some parity between them and the Vorlons was introduced because the resolution to the arc, that the Vorlons were going to sacrifice themselves for the younger races, was both too obvious and not grimdark enough.

That's probably what holds me back from getting into B5. I heard about that resolution and just have a hard time believing it because like you said, the Shadows are just so obviously evil but then bygones are supposed to be bygones?