Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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I thought "changeling" was more like calling someone with dwarfism "elf," because changelings are creatures which appear in the mythologies of peoples across the Delta Quadrant. I guess It's still not a polite thing to do.

From the Search, part 2 (directed by Jonathan Frakes).

FEMALE: Then you've been more fortunate than most Changelings.​
ODO: Changelings?​
FEMALE: You recognize the term.​
ODO: I've been called a Changeling on occasion.​
FEMALE: It's a name given to us by the Solids. They meant it as an insult, but in defiance we took it and made it our own.​

They literally said, "that is our word, now!"
 
From the Search, part 2 (directed by Jonathan Frakes).

FEMALE: Then you've been more fortunate than most Changelings.​
ODO: Changelings?​
FEMALE: You recognize the term.​
ODO: I've been called a Changeling on occasion.​
FEMALE: It's a name given to us by the Solids. They meant it as an insult, but in defiance we took it and made it our own.​

They literally said, "that is our word, now!"
Changeling is the nigger of the universe.
 
Garak, according to Robinson, was supposed to be 'omnisexual', because he saw them as an alien race, and therefore he should have an attitude that's 'alien'. He never was meant to be gay. He played it as Garak was attracted to Bashir because cute and having an insider in Starfleet. In an interview in 2017, Robinson used to be called Liberace when he was much younger, so he probably had that personality going in.

Garak is omnisexual is confirmed, but that's pretty much it. There was no "HEY GUYZ I'LL FUCK ANYONE!"

Robinson however may be Rowling it up and adding even more sexual overtones and playing to the crowd by saying Garak was supposed to be more gay.
 
Garak, according to Robinson, was supposed to be 'omnisexual', because he saw them as an alien race, and therefore he should have an attitude that's 'alien'. He never was meant to be gay. He played it as Garak was attracted to Bashir because cute and having an insider in Starfleet. In an interview in 2017, Robinson used to be called Liberace when he was much younger, so he probably had that personality going in.

Garak is omnisexual is confirmed, but that's pretty much it. There was no "HEY GUYZ I'LL FUCK ANYONE!"

Robinson however may be Rowling it up and adding even more sexual overtones and playing to the crowd by saying Garak was supposed to be more gay.
Especially ironic since in the book "a stitch in time" which is a book about Garak Robinson himself wrote, Garak is pretty unambiguously straight, as in he has a lost female love on Cardassia.

My buddy pointed something else out the other day: DS9 did have a gay relationship on it. Odo/Kira. After all, Odo is quite literally gender-fluid.
 
Garak, according to Robinson, was supposed to be 'omnisexual', because he saw them as an alien race, and therefore he should have an attitude that's 'alien'. He never was meant to be gay. He played it as Garak was attracted to Bashir because cute and having an insider in Starfleet. In an interview in 2017, Robinson used to be called Liberace when he was much younger, so he probably had that personality going in.

Garak is omnisexual is confirmed, but that's pretty much it. There was no "HEY GUYZ I'LL FUCK ANYONE!"

Robinson however may be Rowling it up and adding even more sexual overtones and playing to the crowd by saying Garak was supposed to be more gay.
The Cardassians are such a warrior race that I could imagine a Greco-Roman, totally not gay, man to man fucking going on. I'd argue the "omnisexual" angle isn't truly something "alien" because that kind of behaviour has been observed in many human cultures (although that's a general criticism of Star Trek aliens, they're all too human).
1576430980802.png
pictured is Bashir being spitroasted by Garak (left) and O'Brien (right).

Considering the Cardassians appear very patriarchal (with a few exceptions) and aggresive, I think that perhaps a route which could have been pursued was that the Cardassians developed artificial wombs or "incubation chambers" which make females obsolete. Considering that females must carry the burdens of child bearing, a more ideal, utilitarian form could be achieved by eliminating natural reproduction. The ramifications and how it would fuck up sexual developement would be an interesting idea for a Star Trek race.

Especially ironic since in the book "a stitch in time" which is a book about Garak Robinson himself wrote, Garak is pretty unambiguously straight, as in he has a lost female love on Cardassia.

My buddy pointed something else out the other day: DS9 did have a gay relationship on it. Odo/Kira. After all, Odo is quite literally gender-fluid.
DS9 also had the lesbian episode for "rejoined," the episode where Dax is reunited with her wife from a past host. Pretty good episode tbh, really went well with the whole "transcension beyond the physical" theme that ran throughout much of StarTrek and especially DS9.

Not to mention, Kira in the alternate universe, was a complete degenerate hedonist that was literally fucking everything.

Admitedly, if an episode like that ran today I'd probably end up hating it because of the general oversaturation of faggotry going on in media.
 
, I think that perhaps a route which could have been pursued was that the Cardassians developed artificial wombs or "incubation chambers" which make females obsolete. Considering that females must carry the burdens of child bearing, a more ideal, utilitarian form could be achieved by eliminating natural reproduction. The ramifications and how it would fuck up sexual developement would be an interesting idea for a Star Trek race.
They did that with the Borg in their original appearance, remember?
 
They did that with the Borg in their original appearance, remember?
And that was one of my favourite things about the original Borg! It was one of the many things which made them appear so inhuman and terrifying. However the utilitarianism of the Borgs was to serve a purpose similar to cells, they held no individuality or culture.

I'm imagining a galactic brotherhood/fraternity with it's own unique culture and tradition, their own unique sexual developement and orientation. The Borg never had to deal with these problems, well, at least not until they began rebelling from the collective.
 
Considering the Cardassians appear very patriarchal (with a few exceptions) and aggresive, I think that perhaps a route which could have been pursued was that the Cardassians developed artificial wombs or "incubation chambers" which make females obsolete. Considering that females must carry the burdens of child bearing, a more ideal, utilitarian form could be achieved by eliminating natural reproduction. The ramifications and how it would fuck up sexual developement would be an interesting idea for a Star Trek race.
The problem with this line of thought is that DS9 says female Cardassians are pretty much the brains behind their whole race. I believe it was the same episode with the Cardie who wanted O'Brien's Big Irish Dong where the women say that as far as engineering and sciences go, women dominate the field and men are big old dummies who like fighting and petty politics. So if anything, you'd have it the other way around with female Cardassians choosing to keep a couple of sperm donors around and making most men obsolete since they actually know how the science behind that works. And even then, I don't see that happening. There's very little proof in DS9 showing us that in a Cardassian society men and women aren't equal. They're hardasses who flirt by bantering and arguing which make them seem more agressive than they really are (though ofc they are agressive once you really need to fight them). If the military has fewer women, then it's because they saw the obvious problem of putting their childbearers AND brains in situations where they can easily die. And Cardassians being a warrior race isn't really true for most of their history since they only became so because of desperate times (in this case, famine). Gul Madred remembered starving as a child which might suggest a hightened military presence and a culture of war and conquest was a fairly new thing on Cardassia. At least 50 years, probably less than 100, if we're saying it didn't happen all over the planet at the same time.

That said, your line of thought could make for an interesting race and the study of it. Arthur C. Clarke's The City and the Stars is kinda similar to that thought, isn't it? Humans a million years or so in the future where they don't reproduce, but just pop out of a chamber, recycling themselves every few hundred year (though they did have seperate sexual characteristics, which doesn't overlap 100%, but the idea is still there since they aren't making the babies on their own).
 
The problem with this line of thought is that DS9 says female Cardassians are pretty much the brains behind their whole race. I believe it was the same episode with the Cardie who wanted O'Brien's Big Irish Dong where the women say that as far as engineering and sciences go, women dominate the field and men are big old dummies who like fighting and petty politics. So if anything, you'd have it the other way around with female Cardassians choosing to keep a couple of sperm donors around and making most men obsolete since they actually know how the science behind that works. And even then, I don't see that happening. There's very little proof in DS9 showing us that in a Cardassian society men and women aren't equal. They're hardasses who flirt by bantering and arguing which make them seem more agressive than they really are (though ofc they are agressive once you really need to fight them). If the military has fewer women, then it's because they saw the obvious problem of putting their childbearers AND brains in situations where they can easily die. And Cardassians being a warrior race isn't really true for most of their history since they only became so because of desperate times (in this case, famine). Gul Madred remembered starving as a child which might suggest a hightened military presence and a culture of war and conquest was a fairly new thing on Cardassia. At least 50 years, probably less than 100, if we're saying it didn't happen all over the planet at the same time.

That said, your line of thought could make for an interesting race and the study of it. Arthur C. Clarke's The City and the Stars is kinda similar to that thought, isn't it? Humans a million years or so in the future where they don't reproduce, but just pop out of a chamber, recycling themselves every few hundred year (though they did have seperate sexual characteristics, which doesn't overlap 100%, but the idea is still there since they aren't making the babies on their own).
I was mostly just throwing a hypothetical, what if the Cardassians didn't have any females. There were Cardie women as far back as TNG. My point was mostly just that it would be an interesting idea for an alien race, and they could've done it with the Cardassians.

Putting more thought into it though, considering how highly the Cardassians value family and how females form a key role fulfilling the more delicate jobs, it was a poor example.

I can totally imagine the premise to a TOS style episode of a colony of monks, Dominicans or something, colonizing a planet to live in fraternal solitude without the temptations of the federation and womankind. In order to prolong their existance as a colony, they have an artificial womb which can produce male children, who in turn raised as monks. Eventually, some sort of disaster strikes the colony, and the Enterprise comes to provide aid. The relief team includes a female ensign and she catches the eye of one of the monks, who immediatly experiences attraction/love for the first time.
 
Garak, according to Robinson, was supposed to be 'omnisexual', because he saw them as an alien race, and therefore he should have an attitude that's 'alien'.
According to standard rules of Trek canon, if it's not onscreen, it doesn't count. 😉

In an interview in 2017, Robinson used to be called Liberace when he was much younger...
He kind of looked like Liberace (and also Herman Goering, for that matter).

The Cardassians are such a warrior race that I could imagine a Greco-Roman, totally not gay, man to man fucking going on. I'd argue the "omnisexual" angle isn't truly something "alien" because that kind of behaviour has been observed in many human cultures (although that's a general criticism of Star Trek aliens, they're all too human).
I'd argue that the current conception of "Greco-Roman, totally not gay, man to man fucking" is the result of an unhealthy amount of confirmation bias on the part of certain, shall we say, personally interested scholars.

also had the lesbian episode for "rejoined," the episode where Dax is reunited with her wife from a past host.
In defiance, if memory serves, of one of the explicit (and quite sensible), established rules for Joined Trills, that being "no hooking up with the significant others of previous hosts."

Not to mention, Kira in the alternate universe, was a complete degenerate hedonist that was literally fucking everything.
That's kind of the point of the Mirror Universe, though: everyone in it is either an oppressed peon or an extreme, Caligula-level degenerate.
 
I can totally imagine the premise to a TOS style episode of a colony of monks, Dominicans or something, colonizing a planet to live in fraternal solitude without the temptations of the federation and womankind. In order to prolong their existance as a colony, they have an artificial womb which can produce male children, who in turn raised as monks. Eventually, some sort of disaster strikes the colony, and the Enterprise comes to provide aid. The relief team includes a female ensign and she catches the eye of one of the monks, who immediatly experiences attraction/love for the first time.
That was an episode of Lexx. Sorta. NSFW

I miss the Lexx and I believe it is, for the most part, immune to woke rebooting.
 
I was mostly just throwing a hypothetical, what if the Cardassians didn't have any females. There were Cardie women as far back as TNG. My point was mostly just that it would be an interesting idea for an alien race, and they could've done it with the Cardassians.

Putting more thought into it though, considering how highly the Cardassians value family and how females form a key role fulfilling the more delicate jobs, it was a poor example.

I can totally imagine the premise to a TOS style episode of a colony of monks, Dominicans or something, colonizing a planet to live in fraternal solitude without the temptations of the federation and womankind. In order to prolong their existance as a colony, they have an artificial womb which can produce male children, who in turn raised as monks. Eventually, some sort of disaster strikes the colony, and the Enterprise comes to provide aid. The relief team includes a female ensign and she catches the eye of one of the monks, who immediatly experiences attraction/love for the first time.
So....kinda like the opening to Hot Shots Part Deux then?
 
I'd argue that the current conception of "Greco-Roman, totally not gay, man to man fucking" is the result of an unhealthy amount of confirmation bias on the part of certain, shall we say, personally interested scholars.
I don't know man, from what I've seen from primary sources, it's pretty clear that sex with men/adolecents wasn't taboo. Greco-Romans looked at sex as giver/reciever relationship rather than exclusively male/female. Germans and Hebrews, however, were very strictly male/female. So when Christian Germans conquered Rome, they tossed out most of the homo shit.

In defiance, if memory serves, of one of the explicit (and quite sensible), established rules for Joined Trills, that being "no hooking up with the significant others of previous hosts."
It was one of those "forbidden love" episodes, and it was doubly so because they were scissoring. It ended with them breaking it off though.

That was an episode of Lexx. Sorta. NSFW
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6D20BcjYVG4
I miss the Lexx and I believe it is, for the most part, immune to woke rebooting.
You know what, TOS probably would've made it a colony of nuns that ends up turning to shit when Kirk's cock bursts out of his girdle by accident. Maybe a few nuns see Spock, and he finds himself in a love triangle that he doesn't know he's participating in.
 
I don't know man, from what I've seen from primary sources, it's pretty clear that sex with men/adolecents wasn't taboo. Greco-Romans looked at sex as giver/reciever relationship rather than exclusively male/female. Germans and Hebrews, however, were very strictly male/female. So when Christian Germans conquered Rome, they tossed out most of the homo shit.
From what I've seen, primary sources have been interpreted pretty creatively for a long time now, and/or just plain sloppily, such as not necessarily accounting for changes in Hellenic culture over time. It's been compared to a future historian presenting 21st century and 19th century San Francisco as interchangeable in terms of social norms and attitudes.

It was one of those "forbidden love" episodes, and it was doubly so because they were scissoring. It ended with them breaking it off though.
And contributing to 8chan's popular "Dax is a slut" meme.
 
From what I've seen, primary sources have been interpreted pretty creatively for a long time now, and/or just plain sloppily, such as not necessarily accounting for changes in Hellenic culture over time. It's been compared to a future historian presenting 21st century and 19th century San Francisco as interchangeable in terms of social norms and attitudes.
Fair enough. I do recall reading several Classical philosophers'/statesmen condemnation of homsexuality and other non-reproductive forms of sexual interaction. I would agree that it's unfair to characterize an entire civilization's sexual practises based on saucy potter/paintings found in brothels. It would be similar to a 41st century history professor finding BDSM gear and an inflationist's deviantart page and extrapolating that data onto all of society.

Regardless, I would still argue that homosexual male relationships would publically exist without controversy. Hellenistic mythology has relationships that either ellude to or outright say are homoerotic (albiet, heterosexual relationships are far more common). Not to mention Antoninus, Hadrian's boy toy, who was deified upon his death and whose image is among the most recognizable from antiquity. This contrasts with Christian Europe, which declares homosexuality an abomination while Hellenistic culture/religion tolerates it's existence.

We should probably end it here to avoid this becoming a spergout over men in togas fucking each other.

And contributing to 8chan's popular "Dax is a slut" meme.
Dax is fucking insufferable. Worf's a good guy, but her Klingon fetish is the equivalent to when a Valley Girl goes to the Caribbean and comes back with dreadlocks, reeking of weed, and Rasta boyfriend named Winston.
 
Fair enough. I do recall reading several Classical philosophers'/statesmen condemnation of homsexuality and other non-reproductive forms of sexual interaction. I would agree that it's unfair to characterize an entire civilization's sexual practises based on saucy potter/paintings found in brothels. It would be similar to a 41st century history professor finding BDSM gear and an inflationist's deviantart page and extrapolating that data onto all of society.

Regardless, I would still argue that homosexual male relationships would publically exist without controversy. Hellenistic mythology has relationships that either ellude to or outright say are homoerotic (albiet, heterosexual relationships are far more common). Not to mention Antoninus, Hadrian's boy toy, who was deified upon his death and whose image is among the most recognizable from antiquity. This contrasts with Christian Europe, which declares homosexuality an abomination while Hellenistic culture/religion tolerates it's existence.

We should probably end it here to avoid this becoming a spergout over men in togas fucking each other.


Dax is fucking insufferable. Worf's a good guy, but her Klingon fetish is the equivalent to when a Valley Girl goes to the Caribbean and comes back with dreadlocks, reeking of weed, and Rasta boyfriend named Winston.
iirc it's a little weirder, Old Man Dax was a hardcore party guy and diplomat so he worked well with Klingons, and Becker Dax just kept partying and now it wasn't so gay to go for ridged dong. But yeah Dax seemed to have slutted it up in a few hosts.
 
Ahahahaha, oh man the Easter eggs in this mirror Voyager issue.
20191215_205450.jpg
 
I was just catastrophically distracted that they got Richard Crenna to be part of their Rambo parody in Hot Shots. That's going on the list.

I was like "Wow they got the costume just right."

Then "Wow, that sounds like a good impression... wait, WHAT THE FUCK?"

Dude had a sense of humor to show up there.

Sorry, horrible tangent over. I hope.
 
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