Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Sweet and Savoury]

I hate to be the guy who says this but;

Nu-trek wasn't made for people like us. We are not the target audience.

Do you think TNG, if it premiered today as it was then, would last more then 4 or 5 episodes before being shit canned?

They're after a whole different audience, it the same as Star Wars. We're not the fans they're looking for. If we choose to watch it because it's labeled as Star Trek well great but it's the new generation they're aiming these shows at. But these high stake action scenes, flashy lights and gritty dark plotting are what's in demand.

The style of old trek is never coming back because there is no demand for those type of shows and...that's ok. Things change, things adapt to new cultural mores and standards. It's an eternal truth.

I'll say what I said to my Star Wars bro's. It's over yes...but they can't take the joy you get from the old stuff away. If you want to enjoy some true ST or SW just slap in a DVD and enjoy away.

Just accept that it's over and enjoy the memories is my advice , don't go seeking to re-create those old feeling again.


Now if you don't mind I got to go get my Q on, all this talk has got me all worked up and I need a fix.

 

[Flexo]

I hate to be the guy who says this but;

Nu-trek wasn't made for people like us. We are not the target audience.

Do you think TNG, if it premiered today as it was then, would last more then 4 or 5 episodes before being shit canned?

They're after a whole different audience, it the same as Star Wars. We're not the fans they're looking for. If we choose to watch it because it's labeled as Star Trek well great but it's the new generation they're aiming these shows at. But these high stake action scenes, flashy lights and gritty dark plotting are what's in demand.

The style of old trek is never coming back because there is no demand for those type of shows and...that's ok. Things change, things adapt to new cultural mores and standards. It's an eternal truth.

I'll say what I said to my Star Wars bro's. It's over yes...but they can't take the joy you get from the old stuff away. If you want to enjoy some true ST or SW just slap in a DVD and enjoy away.

Just accept that it's over and enjoy the memories is my advice , don't go seeking to re-create those old feeling again.


Now if you don't mind I got to go get my Q on, all this talk has got me all worked up and I need a fix.

The problem is that they're not finding that audience.

It's a bit cliche and the true meaning is lost but what made trek popular in the long run is that it really did offer something different from other television. How is nu-trek going to survive nowadays if it's just like all the other cw dramas I can watch for free right now?

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

People on Reddit, I guess? I saw someone there write "CBS changed the video player interface" as a criticism of this episode. I'm not usually big brained enough to believe in paid shills, but I might start.

I went on Reddit to check it out. They love this episode. "It's so funny! Picard was doing silly voices, this is just like the Star Trek of old, and anyone who disagrees doesn't really like Star Trek!".

Now I remember why I stopped using Reddit.

 

[Miller]

what made trek popular in the long run is that it really did offer something different from other television.

That's exactly what Robert Meyer Burnett was saying in his latest livestream. Star Trek used to show something different, it started conversations, made people think. It used to be a reference. Now it's all about ripping off plots and characters from other properties while using violence to solve the issue of the season.

I went on Reddit to check it out. They love this episode.

They don't really have a choice, they either love it or get downboated to hell and/or shadowbanned.

 

[kobebyarlant]

At least I still have The Orville.

 

[AnOminous]

I hate to be the guy who says this but;

Nu-trek wasn't made for people like us. We are not the target audience.

Do you think TNG, if it premiered today as it was then, would last more then 4 or 5 episodes before being shit canned?

TNG's pilot was awful and (much of) the first season was mediocre at best. It only got good in the second season. It would probably get canceled after the pilot now.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

TNG's pilot was awful and (much of) the first season was mediocre at best. It only got good in the second season. It would probably get canceled after the pilot now.

It's hard to really compare the launch of an episodic show verses an arc series. An arc series should have everything figured out and done before it starts. Episodic shows frequently take a while to figure out what they're going to do, what their audiences respond to, etc.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Yikes, I saw that last episode of Picard, and well I'm sorry to say this, but looking at Picard trying to do a pirate voice was the most cringy thing I've ever seen on Star Trek and, one of the most, in entertainment overall. And that's saying a lot...

At first, I thought Picard was joking... but then he plays it 100% seriously as a way to try fool the evil mafia guys. The only logical explanation I have for them to be fooled for something that silly is that they thought Picard was drunk.

Then the rest of the episode proceeds to treat Picard as a senile old man that has no idea what's going so he has to be directed by Raffi and 7 of 9 for him to be able to do anything. Naive Romulan Ninja is the only character more clueless than Picard.

Speaking of Seven of 9, she was also way out of character. She went from being a cold, calculating, and very intellectual woman that solved everything with emotionless logic, and yet, was still trying to find her humanity, to a hot-blooded, and highly emotional generic action woman.

I guess I could buy her regaining some of her humanity over the years, but not to the extent of being basically a different person.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Yikes, I saw that last episode of Picard, and well I'm sorry to say this, but looking at Picard trying to do a pirate voice was the most cringy thing I've ever seen on Star Trek and, one of the most, entertainment overall. And that's saying a lot...

At first, I thought Picard was joking... but then he plays it 100% seriously as a way to try fool the evil mafia guys. The only logical explanation I have for them to be fooled for something that silly is that they thought Picard was drunk

Then the rest of the episode proceeds to treat Picard as a senile old man that has no idea what's going so he has to be directed by Raffi and 7 of 9 for him to be able to do anything

Speaking of Seven of 9, she was also way out of character. She went from being a cold, calculating, and very intellectual and logical woman that solved everything with cold logic, and yet, was still trying to find her humanity, too a hot blooded, and highly emotional generic action woman.

What happened to her husband Chakotay? Why can't the space Injun keep his Borg wife in line?

I really hate how NuTrek ignores all the the other Treks. I don't give a damn about a space crackhead and her child endangerment regrets or schizo Romulans and their unexplained robotphobia. Picard coming out of retirement could work but he's being deliberately played as a befuddled old man so their hideous Negro elf-eared space fags look good by comparison. I want bitchy Kate Mulgrew to grab Seven and have them kill everyone in this abomination and then the EMH from Voyager wakes Janeway up and says "OMG you were having a space induced 8472 psychosis but I gave you some nanoprobes to make it go away thanks Seven!"

Rate me optimistic but I could pull a better Picard script out of my ass while recovering from Wu flu and high on mushrooms.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

I really hate how NuTrek ignores all the the other Treks.

It doesn't ignore them, sadly. Actually this episode is a really great analogy. NuTrek hunts them for parts.

 

[The Gagh Whisperer]

Yea, I'm fucking done.

Star Trek, in it's current incarnation, is dead.

Wherever you place the blame (and it's not just Kurtzman), the people writing this shit are incapable of making good Star Trek. They've not even capable of making good entertainment.

It's violent, dumb, melodramatic geek culture wank.

Any Star Trek coming out of the current crew is going to be shit.

 

[Tookie]

And here I was hoping the premise of Picard would be Q granting him powers to investigate cosmic mysteries and strange new civilizations as a last hurrah before space Alzheimer's sets in. Fuck this.

 

[Rebel Wilson]

lol that new episode wasn't very good.

Spoiler

they actually put in Icheb being mutilated and then killed by 7 on Star Trek. The original actor didn't come come back for the scene so some guy who looks nothing like Icheb is substituted in.

I assume because he said some things defending Kevin Spacey the twitterbots who are in charge of star trek had to cancel both him and the character he played.

It's good to show contempt for your audience,

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

@Sweet and Savoury

I think you make some good points, but I have to disagree on the overall premise that Star Trek is just evolving. The very existence of TNG proves that's not the case.

There is a reason TNG is called well, "The Next-generation". Kirk and crew, symbolically, passed the torch to Picard and his crew. No matter how great our heroes are, eventually, a Next-Generation has to take over.

Did fans complain they rather have more Kirk and Spock? Sure. People hate change as you say. But this is the biggest difference:

TNG continued the mission of TOS. They inherited it. That's why both shows have the same introduction "to boldy go...". Even if all the characters are different, and technology advanced between TOS and TNG, and TNG adapted to the times, The spirit of both shows remained the exact same.

The same can't be said for ST; Picard and ST; Discovery . They aren't inheritors, they are usurpers. They aren't here to continue they are here to destroy the past.

I hate to be the guy who says this but;
Nu-trek wasn't made for people like us. We are not the target audience.

Why use the name and brand of "Star Trek" then? I mean all this nostalgia bait like literally naming the show after Picard was because they were pandering to old fans. It might as well had been another show with another name if the past truly didn't matter.

However, you are 100% right in that audience they actually want is young people. In their minds, they are just reaching "the millennials" and "Zoomers" that seem unable to shut up about Social Justice on twitter.

Trouble is they have never been the main target of Star Trek.

Star Trek appeals to introverts, to intellectuals, and to dreamers of a better future.

Do you think TNG, if it premiered today as it was then, would last more then 4 or 5 episodes before being shit canned?

Actually... I do. You see TNG even if it had a bad first season, it didn't air in a vacuum. You are 100% right that TNG would've being canned if it had been the first and only Star Trek. But the reasons people gave it a chance until it got good was because Star Trek had already earned people's goodwill with the original series.

The same can be said fo ST; Picard. People only gave it a chance out of Nostalgia. But, unlike TNG, it simply doesn't have anything to stand on its own at all.

The style of old trek is never coming back because there is no demand for those type of shows and...that's ok. Things change, things adapt to new cultural mores and standards. It's an eternal truth.

Two words: The Orville.

Another universal truth is that even if stories evolve the core truths within remains eternal. As long as people dream and hope about a better future, and to explore the stars, there will be a demand for Star Trek.

Just accept that it's over and enjoy the memories is my advice , don't go seeking to re-create those old feeling again.

I agree with you that it's important to accept when something it's over. Though what people wanted was a passing of the torch, just like Kirk passed the torch to Picard, not someone stepping on the torch all while calling it racist and homophobic...

 

[Judge Holden]

lol that new episode wasn't very good.

Spoiler

they actually put in Icheb being mutilated and then killed by 7 on Star Trek. The original actor didn't come come back for the scene so some guy who looks nothing like Icheb is substituted in.

I assume because he said some things defending Kevin Spacey the twitterbots who are in charge of star trek had to cancel both him and the character he played.

It's good to show contempt for your audience,

i.......im sorry what?

*googles to check*

Wow....Really? Fucking really?!

Kurtzman really is doing everything in his power to turn the star trek franchise into the shittest fanfic imaginable. Over the past decade we have gone from cringy flanderization of characters to dumb shipping of said characters to mary sue OCs to "DARK AND EDGY AND SUPER SRS GUIZ" horseshit being crowbarred in to having random characters being grusomely tortured and killed for no reason other than to add more pointless angst to the protagonists.

All we need now is for khan and the black special snowflake protagonist of discovery to hook up after he violently rapes her and thus makes her fall in love with him and we will have truly entered the lowest depths of fanfiction hell. And maybe have O'brien mentioned to have gone full Chris Benoit a week after the end of DS9 and murdered keiko and his children before hanging himself for good measure

 

[Feline Supremacist]

@Sweet and Savoury

I think you make some good points, but I have to disagree on the overall premise that Star Trek is just evolving. The very existence of TNG proves that's not the case.

There is a reason TNG is called well, "The Next-generation". Kirk and crew, symbolically, passed the torch to Picard and his crew. No matter how great our heroes are, eventually, a Next-Generation has to take over.

Did fans complain they rather have more Kirk and Spock? Sure. People hate change as you say. But this is the biggest difference:

TNG continued the mission of TOS. They inherited it. That's why both shows have the same introduction "to boldy go...". Even if all the characters are different, and technology advanced between TOS and TNG, and TNG adapted to the times, The spirit of both shows remained the exact same.

The same can't be said for ST; Picard and ST; Discovery . They aren't inheritors, they are usurpers. They aren't here to continue they are here to destroy the past.




Why use the name and brand of "Star Trek" then? I mean all this nostalgia bait like literally naming the show after Picard was because they were pandering to old fans. It might as well had been another show with another name if the past truly didn't matter.

However, you are 100% right in that audience they actually want is young people. In their minds, they are just reaching "the millennials" and "Zoomers" that seem unable to shut up about Social Justice on twitter.

Trouble is they have never been the main target of Star Trek.

Star Trek appeals to introverts, to intellectuals, and to dreamers of a better future.




Actually... I do. You see TNG even if it had a bad first season, it didn't air in a vacuum. You are 100% right that TNG would've being canned if it had been the first and only Star Trek. But the reasons people gave it a chance until it got good was because Star Trek had already earned people's goodwill with the original series.

The same can be said fo ST; Picard. People only gave it a chance out of Nostalgia. But, unlike TNG, it simply doesn't have anything to stand on its own at all.



Two words: The Orville.

Another universal truth is that even if stories evolve the core truths within remains eternal. As long as people dream and hope about a better future, and to explore the stars, there will be a demand for Star Trek.




I agree with you that it's important to accept when something it's over. Though what people wanted was a passing of the torch, just like Kirk passed the torch to Picard, not someone stepping on the torch all while calling it racist and homophobic...

I've been watching some Orville episodes and it does have the old Star Trek vibe, and while the silly jokes were silly, it's been toned down as the show progressed. Much better than Discovery or Picard.

 

[Miller]

maybe have O'brien mentioned

Breaking news: Chief O'Brien has been arrested and found guilty of hatespeech after he wrote several anti-cardassian remarks on the Federation Social Media platform. This is FNN.​

It's violent, dumb, melodramatic geek culture wank.

There one thing that I hate the most in the Kurtzman era of Trek is with the way they trivialize violence and death. The Groundhog Day episode of STD with Mudd was painful to watch, did they really think that it was funny to see Mudd kill Lorca and his crew over and over and let him go at the end of the episode? Then in season 2 there's the dead baby head, and now Icheb's suffering and 7 killing everybody with her akimbo Halo assault rifles.

 

[L50LasPak]

It seems modern sci fi shows are afraid of science in a deep sense - they dislike the cold certainty and logic, so they replace them spirituality and belief in higher power. I wonder if it's a generational issue or a gender issue.

I'm really late to the party as usual but there was some critic who said "Sci-fi has not lost faith in the future, its lost faith in the ability to predict the future." And its true. It gets so fucking complicated past a certain point. If you want to do SF for real, if you want to do all the math and get all the physics and chemicals right, you need to really study hard. And if you don't, everyone laughs at it. And if you somehow pull through and do it 100% accurate, people say its boring, or its stupid. Its not worth it to do it right anymore. I hate that.

 

[Flexo]

I agree with you that it's important to accept when something it's over. Though what people wanted was a passing of the torch, just like Kirk passed the torch to Picard, not someone stepping on the torch all while calling it racist and homophobic...

This, this, a thousand times this.

You can have a passing of torches to new characters, that can be fine, but don't shit on what came before. Otherwise why use the name?

Fans loved Batman Beyond for a reason. You could keep everything about the show the same and have Terry be "Teri" - a colored woman - as long as you still had respect for Bruce.

Hell I could buy Burnham as the love child of Spock and Urhura if she struggled to find her place in Starfleet and wasn't the bestest ever at everything.

In Picard I could buy a Federation that's changed, after a devastating Dominion war. Throw in another Borg conflict after Voyager poked the hive and we could have a Federation that was desperate for manpower and forced to create synthetics. But you'd have to show a Federation that felt conflicted about it. A Starfleet that knew it was losing its way, but didn't have any good options.

But then that would make the plot nuanced and complicated. It would show respect to the past. And we know we can't let nuance get in the way of our morality tales or the past be respected in any way.

 

[drtoboggan]

Star Trek has become gay and unrealistic.