Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Ceramite is a non metallic substance that is mostly impenetrable to energy weapons.

Not quite. There's been more than a few instances I've heard that has ceramite getting pierced by lasguns. We see in the Dawn of War cutscene that regular bullets from guns wielded by low-ranking Orks can penetrate the armor fully, and even in the Astartes film, the Space Marine getting hit by a lasgun barrage quickly takes cover-obviously because if he stayed out in the open, the armor won't hold up. This isn't the same case as with beskar withstanding lightsabers like plate armor holds off a sword. More like how Kevlar can hold off bullets, but only to a limited extent.

Lore wise marines aren't just fast, but can shoot/dodge in microseconds. Not milliseconds, and headshot in the kilometer range without sniping. They don't need jetpacks to be more mobile than most enemies save eldar. If I match your autism, that means at low end 999 microseconds, which is 0.999 millisecond, 0,1% of a second. While this speed was replicated by an Old Republic Jedi once, he could only do Force Speed this fast for a limited time.

We've never seen that. Not in any visual medium that GW published. Most of the time, we see Space Marines walking around slowly. Which means that Space Marines being super fast is another example of what GW acknowledges as propaganda in the books.

"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history…

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it. Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.

It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nuclear war; that nails it for me. Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy. To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you."

-Marc Gascoigne, former head and chief editor of the Black Library

And if we're bringing books into this, then the same would be said of the Jedi, who are so fast that they become blurs in certain novels. When Anakin walked in on Palpatine and Windu fighting in the ROTS novel, all he saw were blurs and flashes of light, because both men had activated Force speed at the time. It still didn't stop droids from killing the odd Jedi now and then.

And at least we HAVE seen the Jedi go Force speed like in the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon, that one scene in TPM, and the many SW video games that have it as a power that's usable by the player. Yet the clones and droids were still able to kill them.

If Dark troopers had this, they would have smeared any human opponent who isn't a skilled Jedi.

But the Dark Troopers from Dark Forces DID smear through all opponents that's not Kyle Katarn. And even back in Dark Forces, Vader could already sense the awakened power of the Force strong in Katarn. Dude runs fast as fuck and can punch Kell dragons to death, while unarmored and un-augmented. He can even wield the plasma assault cannons that only Dark Troopers can wield. That's not normal at all.

The autism in you makes you take the maximum EU values against the stupidest of 40k lowballs, but that is because you are autistic. This applies to both franchises and is a result of slop writers not getting physics or scale.

I'm simply applying what I see on both sides. 40K lore claims that Space Marines can be super fast and durable, but that's not what we see in the visual media. However, we HAVE seen the Jedi be super fast, and materials such as phrik and beskar be durable enough to laugh off lightsabers, which usually cut through even the heaviest of armor.

It's one thing to write that a Space Marine or a Jedi is as fast as Sonic the fucking Hedgehog. It's another to actually show it. Yet consistently, we've never seen Space Marines be that fast. Not in the two Space Marine games, not in Boltgun, not in the many licensed animations and cutscenes that has GW's stamp of approval. But we have seen the Jedi be that fast in officially-licensed visual content in both movie canon and the SWEU. I still remember that part where Shaak Ti bolted towards the Chancellor and Grievous in the 2003 cartoon. I sure as fuck didn't see that in the officially-sanctioned Astartes short, even though that's supposed to show us the Space Marines at their best.

Also how would a human like Kyle Katarn be able to kill multiple Dark Troopers? If their plasma cannons are anything like a 40k plasma gun, a single shot would kill anything even if it is a near miss.

Because Kyle is fast. Also, yes, if you do get hit by the plasma cannons of the Dark Troopers, Kyle will die. You have to use speed and cover to defeat the Dark Troopers. Trying to fight them front-and-center just ends in you getting killed.

Also, Kyle has a portable shield generator that protects him the same way the Republic Commandos have it. That's why he can survive a glancing blow from the Dark Troopers, but not direct fire. I remember when I first faced Rom Mohc, he fucking killed me with a single trigger pull of his plasma cannon because I was right in front of him.

Your entire understanding of the franchise is superficial, gleaned from memes, youtube poop and vidya.

That's because GW openly admitted that the books are full of nonsense and lies. Why would I trust them if the company itself says they're full of bunk?

"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."

-Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer, Games Workshop

"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."

-Andy Hoare, Game Designer GW

"There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."

-Aaron Dembski-Bowden, co-author Horus Heresy series

And even if I bring in the 40K books, their lore autism is next to nothing when compared to the SW books. The 40K books constantly remind you in the intro that the Imperium is 1 million worlds strong. The Empire in Star Wars is either 12 million worlds strong (Disney) or 70 million worlds strong (Old EU). The only official firepower calc I can find that's not fanmade wank is the fact that the Mark VI Mars-Pattern Macrocannon is in the kiloton range of firepower. The official SW tech manual for Episode 2 says that turbolasers can go up to the three-digit gigaton range, a figure supported by the books in both the old EU canon and the new canon. Warp travel and astropaths take weeks or even months to send messages or ships to and fro, hyperdrives can allow a ship to traverse the galactic diameter in less than a day, and interstellar communication allows for real-time video calls from Coruscant to the Outer Rim. The Imperial Guard is 500 trillion strong, and that's them drafting any idiot who can hold a lasgun into the service. The Galactic Empire has 100 quadrillion subjects, meaning that if Palpatine drafts just 5% of the populace into the Imperial military, he'd have an army ten times the size of the IG. And that's not even counting each planet's local defense forces.

And that gets to the bottom of how both worlds are designed; Warhammer 40K came out AFTER Star Wars, and the Imperium had all those built-in flaws, because the writers set out to make them more backwards and less advanced than what other sci-fi universes had:

"To me the background to 40K was always intended to be ironic. The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they're brutal, but they're also completely self-deceiving. The whole idea of the Emperor is that you don't know whether he's alive or dead. The whole Imperium might be running on superstition. There's no guarantee that the Emperor is anything other than a corpse with a residual mental ability to direct spacecraft. It's got some parallels with religious beliefs and principles, and I think a lot of that got missed and overwritten."

Rick Priestley, Warhammer 40K lore author and creator, in a December 2015 interview with Unplugged Games

The Imperium of Man is like a small amount of butter spread through a piece of bread. The Galactic Empire is like a large slop of jam on a piece of toast. The Imperium is a society in technological decay, the Empire pulls out new technological miracles out of its ass almost every week. The Imperium takes weeks or months to respond or send reinforcements, the Empire can send reinforcements in minutes. The Imperial Guard needs commissars pointing guns at the back of their heads because they're so disorganized, they can break ranks and run like hell at any minute, the Stormtroopers will step over the bodies of their dead comrades just to take a potshot at the enemy. The Space Marines' vaunted Bolters have rounds that explode on impact like small grenades, but the blasters in the Original Trilogy of SW have that too. The 40K Imperium is stagnant on technology, and the writers can't make up their minds if it's for legitimate reasons, or if it's just religious people being stupid.

The 40K authors purposefully nerfed the Imperium in comparison to other space empires just to show how their society is in decay. Mostly because they're a bunch of British fart-huffers who wanted to bitch about how religion and conservatism hold society back from science and progress, not realizing that the science of Western Civilization had its foundation laid down by priests, and that without the aid of the religious, the early Feminist and Civil Rights movements would be dead in the water.

Meanwhile, Lucas buffed the Empire on purpose just to make them an overwhelming threat. They're damn near everywhere, they can respond quickly, they've got no end to their numbers, and the Rebels have to fight and win by the skin of their teeth and the aid of a supernatural power. Even the Ewoks on Endor would've failed spectacularly if Chewie didn't steal a piece of Imperial tech and turn the tide with a surprise attack while disguised as the enemy. And the EU doubled-down on that. Hyperspace nukes thay can blow up worlds, power-armored soldiers invented on the fly, an Emperor who keeps coming back through cloning and body-surfing, giant flying vacuum cleaners that swallow up mountains and crap out starfighters, figuring out how to give muggles the Force, the works. They only "fell" because they civil-warred themselves to death after Endor, and remnants of theirs survived and even thrived to the point where by the time the EU timeline ends, they are once again the biggest power in a galaxy where there's tens of millions of civilized worlds.

Whereas the most advanced things in 40K like the Blackstone Fortresses or that Necron Star Map that can destroy stars typically predated the Imperium and maybe even the Emperor of Mankind.

Instead of a religious empire that's decaying because the authors are a bunch of fart-huffing twats, Lucas wanted a Goliath that crushes all before it, and it can only be defeated by trusting in a higher power. Which is fitting, considering that he also made the Indiana Jones films where things like the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail have real, supernatural power.

Knowing the reasons behind why people write the factions is just as important as reading the lore, if not more important. Especially since, as you yourself stated, the lore nuts might be a few screws loose now and then, (*cough* Matt Ward *cough* Karen Traviss *cough*) and it's important to get at the purpose of the lore, instead of just the details.

 

[Ghostse]

Discovery has been granted in the the Gina Carano vs Disney lawsuit.

View attachment 7191364

https://x.com/gschaerr/status/1909328233335841048

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I don't want this to get lost in retards slap fighting about whose space men have the strongest pretend metals, becaue Disney getting absolutely buttfucked by e-discovery is exactly what my Tuesday needed.

Rick Priestley, Warhammer 40K lore author and creator, in a December 2015 interview with Unplugged Games

Stop quoting the one guy still buttmad about Thatcher to try to pretend 40k is satire. They kicked him off early. That might be what his headcannon was, but that's not what the setting turned into.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Stop quoting the one guy still buttmad about Thatcher to try to pretend 40k is satire. They kicked him off early. That might be what his headcannon was, but that's not what the setting turned into.

Not according to GW, who still reiterated that the Imperium are backwards-ass morons. GW says Warhammer 40K is satire, and they've got the right to say that, given that they, unlike with Disney and Star Wars, actually created the 40K franchise. They've got every right to say what their franchise's official interpretation is, just as JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis have every right to say that LOTR and Narnia are officially Christian works.

Need I remind you of the "Warhammer is for everyone" quote? At this point, it's the right-wing fans who have their headcannon, and the Lefties who are going with what GW and its writers inteded for the 40K story. Like how Alan Moore wrote Rorschach in Watchmen to be a weirdo stinky right-wing fascist, but the fans headcannoned him into a righteous crusader for justice who won't give up on his principles.

There's no shame in admitting that your interpretation of the lore isn't the official one. Sith/Imperial fans like me have been doing it for years before Disney bought Star Wars from Lucas. Hell, most Imperial fans of Star Wars obviously contradict Lucas with their "the Empire did nothing wrong" mantra. The same goes for 40K, Watchmen, Judge Dredd, and other works written by Thatcher/Reagan-hating hippies. They wrote their story to "own the chuds", but the chuds get the last laugh because the faction that represents them looks better and is more badass 90% of the time, whether it's the Galactic Empire, the Imperium of Man, the Judges, or Rorschach.

Shit, just look at the Gundam fan base. A work written to talk about the horror of war, yet all the fans do is fanboy over the cool robot wars and go "SIEG ZEON!" This despite the fact that the author doesn't approve of the fans being so into cool robot wars or praising the faction that he made to lampoon Imperial Japan and the Nazis.

 

[Adamska]

I'm just going to drop that Pius Dea, the religious movement that Star Wars loremasters made to explain where the Humanocentrism came from, borrowed heavily from 40k and there's no way it wasn't the case given that it first appeared in 2005 in reference notes like the Essential Guide. It never appeared prior to that, and this is after well over a decade since Rogue Trader first came out and post 40k lore settling.

Some things it did included having a monotheistic take on religion, but making it feminine to avoid suits. It was commanded by an Emperor line disguised as Chancellors since all took the name Contispex, the Cathedral Ships with gothic influences and pressure bombs to exterminatus recalcitrant worlds, and Crusades to stomp out the Xenos.

They even retconned the 1982 story with Rur if I recall to synch Alan Moore's little comic book into the lore, making the Order of the Terrible Glare essentially their version of sanctioned psykers. It actively surprises me that GW did not try to do a stupid lawsuit with Lucasfilms over this.

So... yeah. Just gonna zone out until the weird attempts to knife other IPs to upsell this one get resolved, since it reminds me of what a certain rat company that thanks genocide does to market their slop. Also never gave much of a shit for "my IP is stronker than yours" style debates either, just to be frank.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

40k is braindead and so are people who care about its "lore".

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I'm just going to drop that Pius Dea, the religious movement that Star Wars loremasters made to explain where the Humanocentrism came from, borrowed heavily from 40k and there's no way it wasn't the case given that it first appeared in 2005 in reference notes like the Essential Guide. It never appeared prior to that, and this is after well over a decade since Rogue Trader first came out and post 40k lore settling.

Some things it did included having a monotheistic take on religion, but making it feminine to avoid suits. It was commanded by an Emperor line disguised as Chancellors since all took the name Contispex, the Cathedral Ships with gothic influences and pressure bombs to exterminatus recalcitrant worlds, and Crusades to stomp out the Xenos.

They even retconned the 1982 story with Rur if I recall to synch Alan Moore's little comic book into the lore, making the Order of the Terrible Glare essentially their version of sanctioned psykers. It actively surprises me that GW did not try to do a stupid lawsuit with Lucasfilms over this.

So... yeah. Just gonna zone out until the weird attempts to knife other IPs to upsell this one get resolved, since it reminds me of what a certain rat company that thanks genocide does to market their slop. Also never gave much of a shit for "my IP is stronker than yours" style debates either, just to be frank.

40K borrowed heavily from Medieval lore and history, as well as the history of the industrial era, so it's not like they're original. Both SW and 40K borrowed from the Foundation series with their galaxy-spanning empire stories. Arguing over who's original is pretty stupid, especially since 40K practically stole everything they had.

Also, I'm sure Star Wars put knights, princesses, Feudal lords, and Crusades in space long before 40K was a thing. After all, the first movie introduced all those things, and Ben's line about "damn fool idealistic crusades" already put the Crusades in a spacefaring context long before 40K was an idea.

Also, isn't it better to argue sci-fi nerd shit rather than get depressed over how shit Disney is? At the very least, we can argue something substantial, as opposed to whine about how bad a bunch of nepotism babies are at handling a franchise that came before them.

40k is braindead and so are people who care about its "lore".

Funny enough, GW agrees with you on that one. They've been waging a decade-long war against the lore nuts to get their lore changes through, and they even did the whole "no canon" thing as an excuse to be able to change it on a whim. There's no bigger hater of 40K lore nuts than GW.

 

[Adamska]

Also, isn't it better to argue sci-fi nerd shit rather than get depressed over how shit Disney is?

I've just been reading West End games books and doing some lore diving to remind myself of the good, learn things I never knew, repair memories of things I forgot, and so on. I also gave myself time to rethink on things I previously thought were shit.

For example; still not the biggest fan of Dark Empire as a comic run, but it won me over somewhat for having a decently designed superweapon and I do like it trying to explain the nature of the Force and point of view between Lightsiders and Darksiders, being the first media effort to do something like that. I still detest it for retreading Return by having Luke fall, and I hate that it still cheapened Vader's redemption though. I still think I dislike it more than like it, but I gained a new POV on what items it added to the setting and can appreciate it now. It also adds to the galaxy setting by covering the Deep Core.

It also has added amusement for me since it allows you to see what Disney aped, and then boggle at how they somehow managed to fuck up the adaptions they stole. It's actually really fun to take a 1:1 shot look at what they borrowed from, and then laugh as you see how they couldn't understand or figure out how to use it. Like Plan IX legit borrows wholescale how Creamy Sheev returned; and Exogol is no Byss.

I find it more interesting than "my IP can dick punch this IP" debates. I got sick of that shit due to anime spergs decades ago.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I've just been reading West End games books and doing some lore diving to remind myself of the good, learn things I never knew, repair memories of things I forgot, and so on. I also gave myself time to rethink on things I previously thought were shit.

For example; still not the biggest fan of Dark Empire as a comic run, but it won me over somewhat for having a decently designed superweapon and I do like it trying to explain the nature of the Force and point of view between Lightsiders and Darksiders. I still detest it for retreading Return by having Luke fall, and I hate that it still cheapened Vader's redemption though. I still think I dislike it more than like it, but I gained a new POV on what items it added to the setting and can appreciate it now.

It also has added amusement for me since it allows you to see what Disney aped, and then boggle at how they somehow managed to fuck up the adaptions they stole. It's actually really fun to take a 1:1 shot look at what they borrowed from, and then laugh as you see how they couldn't understand or figure out how to use it.

I find it more interesting than "my IP can dick punch this IP" debates. I got sick of that shit due to anime spergs decades ago.

But don't you see? Debates like this can get people to read lore books and get themselves immersed in the lore written decades ago that was so good? 40K lore between 3rd and 7th edition, the old SW EU books, there's so much good lore in them that it's sad people don't dig into them more. At least with the SW books.

 

[Adamska]

But don't you see? Debates like this can get people to read lore books and get themselves immersed in the lore written decades ago that was so good? 40K lore between 3rd and 7th edition, the old SW EU books, there's so much good lore in them that it's sad people don't dig into them more.

I specifically dug into lore before and with not knowing an IP slapfight was going on in this thread. And I did that without and in fact in spite of that debate, since again, I find nothing of value in wanking a setting to try and "win" a tribal display. It was tedious and annoying when I saw weebs do it with DBZ, and it's tedious and annoying now.

Save that display for say the Kaleesh before they murder those baby eating mantis fucks the Yam'rii. Those Huk goddamn deserve it.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I specifically dug into lore before and with not knowing an IP slapfight was going on in this thread. And I did that without and in fact in spite of that debate, since again, I find nothing of value in wanking a setting to try and "win" a tribal display. It was tedious and annoying when I saw weebs do it with DBZ, and it's tedious and annoying now.

DBZ usually has a power level number that settles most debates, don't they? It's usually the capeshit fans who have endless debates since most capeshit power levels are subjective. One moment Superman can survive an explosion as powerful as a supernova, the next, some low-rent criminal like Livewire is shocking him and forcing him to kneel.

The thing is, I originally went into the whole "SW vs. 40K" thing on the 40K side, thinking that with how dark and crazy 40K is, it would obviously win. But the more 40K lore I read, the more I tilted back to SW, especially since unlike most 40K lore autists, I read up on a lot of SW lore, and I tended to cross-reference the two. Most of the results ended with the SW side coming out on top due to logistics, firepower calcs, tech specs, and bigger numbers.

Then I compared the visual media of both sides and firmly planted my flag on the SW camp. Don't get me wrong, 40K visual media is great, but the feats and abilities are bigger on the SW camp. I mean, compare the SWTOR trailers with the Astartes shorts, and you get my meaning. Especially when you look at the authors of both sides, and one side's author wants the Empire to be this nigh-unstoppable force that you can only beat with supernatural aid and the will of the people combined, whereas the Imperium was designed by its authors to be a self-sabotaging beast that creates more problems than it solves.

Most 40K fanboys tend to compare the Star Wars movies and some of the shows to every single 40K book they can dig up that paints their side as superior, while totally ignoring all SW books and any 40K lore that might make their side look bad, which is typically hypocritical of them, especially when their excuse is "none of that EU shit is canon, so none of your fancy SW books matter." Then these fanboys bitch when you compare the visual media of both sides, especially when SW obviously wins that contest, and they get even more pissed when you remind them that GW views 40K books as non-canon; they're less canon than even Disney's view of old SWEU/Legends books.

At least Disney just decided that there's two separate canons, and they even created stuff that was canon for the SWEU like the SWTOR expansions after the canon split, whereas GW, the owners and creators of the 40K IP, openly stated multiple times that none of the lore is canon, and there never was a canon to begin with. Then the same people who dismiss SW novels as non-canon will whine and bitch that 40K novels and codexes are totally canon, despite the fact that their Black Library authors deny the very idea of a 40K canon to begin with.

VS. debates between IPs can be an engaging thing. It should be a Socratic Exercise to see which side has the best advantages and when to deploy them. But the fact is, not everyone plays fair, and when you try to get them to play fair, they call foul, pick up their ball, and leave. That's my experience with VS. debates, be it anime vs. capeshit, or debates between different sci-fi franchises or different fantasy franchises.

Star Wars tends to come out on top in most sci-fi debates once you count in the lore, especially since the numbers tend to favor them high. Unless you bring in some high-end shit like the Protoss from Starcraft or the Forerunners from Halo, SW typically wins the fight, especially since they usually use the Galactic/Sith Empire as the faction for the debate.

Save that display for say the Kaleesh before they murder those baby eating mantis fucks the Yam'rii. Those Huk goddamn deserve it.

#GrievousDidNothingWrong

 

[Bulk Bogan]

But the Custodes are mostly a ceremonial unit after the Emperor "retired". At this point, they don't have much need for tanks or aircraft, and one could surmise that if a Custodes was sent on a mission, it'd be serious enough that he'd bring enough support forces with him, just for ONE Custodes.

Why make definitive arguments about a setting you don't know anything about? Custodes fight a neverending battle against the forces of chaos vomiting forth from under Jimmy Space's golden toilet, that's why they mostly stick around the palace. When they deploy, they have huge support units, unless you're playing tabletop.

I never understood that. Usually, when you have a game based on something with a lore, the stronger units tend to have stronger stats. For instance, in Pokemon, you would typically find your average Mewtwo card to be far stronger than a Pikachu card from the same edition of the card game.

Because it's a tabletop wargame that needs to balance one discreet unit of space marines and one discreet unit of guys from planet gas mask and one discreet unit of green football hooligans and one discreet unit of demons from space hell and one discreet unit of hyper-precursors with god in a pokeball that are all worth the same amount of force points. Powerscaling sincerely is retarded and you should stop, especially since Star Wars is just as inconsistent and riddled with no understanding of scale as 40k. You might as well be arguing Goku vs Superman.

 

[Kharash]

Star Wars?

 

[Male Idiot]

I have said even the Mark IV macro cannon doesn't go clear if its yield or weight is the megatonnes.

All I went in is saying that retard writers, be they SW EU, GW, or Disney, just throw stupid numbers at the walls.

GW has never been consistent any more than Lucasfilm. There are generalisations you can draw, but they can end up in circles.

I would personally apply that games reduce Space Marines, Sith and Jedi because you can't have a human player do superhuman speed stuff unless the whole game is matrix slowmode and ends up being Rebel Moon, an Autism of Slowmo and Grain.

Custodes had a few non infantry made by FW in 30k setting, but not nearly enough. Nothing to match an Astartes tank force at any rate.

Kyle Katarn is just a video game protagonist like Boltgun.
Video games do this shit all the time.

Just to keep it on topic, lets examine the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Its AA flak guns aren't that well defined, but its main guns are situated on either size in 4-4 heavy turrets, 3 dorsal medium turrets, and 1-1 quad wing pod.

-X-wing / Tie Fighter had ISD turrets placed on where it had no turrets. It placed heavy turrets along the upper wedge in a V shape, and 2 on the underside. This was done so you can't just fly under it and shoot at it in your X wing onto infinity. The turrets however were not shield protected.

- Empire at War also had wrong hardpoints. Same as Tie Fighter or BFG games, you can't simulate every small AA turret.

-Rebellion/ Supremacy also did this by having ships fire 1 shot that was an accumulation of all their guns of turbolaser or ion type.

-Battlegrounds had units only use 1 gun type. Tie Bombers could only bomb, not strafe with laser cannons.

Thus using video games for lore is a bit unwise.

Same with 40k, Baneblade in Dawn of War games never has its turret autocannon working. It is a prop that doesn't fire. Like how Battlegrounds has the AT-ST only use an ion gun, when it should have a dual blaster gun and 2 weapon pods on the side.

I am just documenting how dying franchises are mismanaged. Whenever it is by Disney or GW.

GW and Lucas and Disney all saw background material as a nuisance that stood in the way of toy sales.

It is just easier to say it is non canon, nothing matters. Just consume product and get excited for new product.

Another funny is neutronium. Whenever used by any faction, it is never accurate to just how heavy the stuff would be.
It is used by 40k, has been used in either SW Galaxies or SW TOR, it is in Star Trek, yet it is never as heavy as it should be.

But then again Mandalorian had Lizzo on a planet, without sinking to the core, so maybe antigrav tech can counteract its weight?

Why is this shit happening? Because Disney and GW fucked their franchises to the ground and there is nothing they put out worth discussing.

Oh my soy, it is the new Disney+ series or the mext Primaris Lieutenant, this time with a new pose! Must buy, consooooom!

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Star Wars?

We're comparing SW with 40K, because it's a lot better to do rather than just endlessly bitching about how Disney's doing a poor job.

Yes, we know Disney sucks, but at this point, you're just preaching to the choir with that.

Why make definitive arguments about a setting you don't know anything about? Custodes fight a neverending battle against the forces of chaos vomiting forth from under Jimmy Space's golden toilet, that's why they mostly stick around the palace. When they deploy, they have huge support units, unless you're playing tabletop.

Then explain to me why they left their post during the Indomitus Crusade. If they always have to watch out for threats that might spawn from the mighty Space Toilet, then why did they deploy from there to fight all across the galaxy when Jimmy's boy Rowboat Gorillaman came back. Wouldn't that leave the Golden Toilet and all of Terra vulnerable? If the entire Adeptus Custodes was needed to guard the throne from Chaos threats for 10K years, then having them go out into battle during the Indomitus Crusade would leave the Throne and Earth vulnerable, no?

The least they could've done is puppeteer the lords of Terra who are on Earth, so the Imperium would continue to run the way the Emperor would've wanted it. The real-world Praetorians did that with the Roman emperors, after all.

Because it's a tabletop wargame that needs to balance one discreet unit of space marines and one discreet unit of guys from planet gas mask and one discreet unit of green football hooligans and one discreet unit of demons from space hell and one discreet unit of hyper-precursors with god in a pokeball that are all worth the same amount of force points. Powerscaling sincerely is retarded and you should stop, especially since Star Wars is just as inconsistent and riddled with no understanding of scale as 40k. You might as well be arguing Goku vs Superman.

Any game worth its salt can easily balance that out. Like say, you can deploy a larger amount of weaker units, or a smaller amount of stronger units. The same amount of points that would allow you to deploy a small, but powerful Space Marine team, you can use to deploy a massive army of Guardsmen. Doesn't 40K already do this, where factions like the Custodes can't deploy a massive swarm?

It's not that hard to balance out a game and make it so that the stronger units are more expensive and less numerous. Fucking chess has this where you can only have 2 bishops, 2 knights, 2 rooks, but 8 pawns.

I have said even the Mark IV macro cannon doesn't go clear if its yield or weight is the megatonnes.

"Mark VI Mars Pattern Macrocannon - The most common macrobattery, these Macrocannons are reliable, hard-hitting weapons that fire kilotonne-grade ordnance, mounted along an Imperial warship's dorsal ridge or in a broadside."

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Macrocannon

Sounds pretty obvious to me. Especially when it's the ordnance grade, not the weight of the shells.

All I went in is saying that retard writers, be they SW EU, GW, or Disney, just throw stupid numbers at the walls.

Star Wars was always consistent with the numbers, especially when you look at the books and the EU in general.

I would personally apply that games reduce Space Marines, Sith and Jedi because you can't have a human player do superhuman speed stuff unless the whole game is matrix slowmode and ends up being Rebel Moon, an Autism of Slowmo and Grain.

Yes you can. There's no shortage of games with super-speed. Most SW games either have you running really fast with Force speed, or you still run normally, but the whole world slows down to a crawl, to depict you going really fast.

The fucking Sonic franchise lives off from this. So there's no excuse.

There's also no excuse in not depicting their insane speed in non-video game visual media. We see Force speed in the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon, we saw Force speed in that one scene in TPM, shit, we see it a lot in cartoons for Sonic and the Justice League when you have characters like Sonic or the Flash who actually have super-speed. Or DBZ where you have guys who are so fast, it looks like they're teleporting when they run up to someone and sock them in the face. You can easily have an animation where the Space Marine is standing still at one moment, then BAM! He runs so fast and smacks the other guy in the face in a flash-step like he's fucking Raditz or Vegeta from DBZ.

Yet in all the movies and sanctioned animations from GW, we do not see this miraculous Space Marine speed.

Kyle Katarn is just a video game protagonist like Boltgun.
Video games do this shit all the time.

Then you should read some of the novels. Again, the ROTS novel had Force Speed be portrayed to be so fast, all Anakin saw were blurs and flashes of light when he stepped into the Mace Windu vs. Palpatine fight. It's like if Sonic and the Flash engaged in a lightsaber duel. The novels' version of Force speed makes the games' version look like a paraplegic turtle in comparison. And they reference that speed again in the novels. In Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader, the clones who are tasked with hunting down fugitive Jedi lament their task, because they note that the Jedi can run really fast with the Force, and unless the Separatists are helping them, it's not going to be easy.

And if the SW books did that, especially the novelization of a canon movie, then that would automatically count on SW's behalf once you bring in the 40K books.

Just to keep it on topic, lets examine the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Its AA flak guns aren't that well defined, but its main guns are situated on either size in 4-4 heavy turrets, 3 dorsal medium turrets, and 1-1 quad wing pod.

The ISD has guns all over its bow, sides, and near the bridge, and we see this in ESB and ANH when the ISD fires at ships like the Falcon or the Tantive IV. We also can surmise that the ISD only uses enough fire for small ships, especially when it's ships that they want to capture like the Falcon or the Tantive IV. I mean, using full power against a ship might get it vaporized, and down goes your chance of capturing the Princess or the Falcon crew for info or hostages.

-X-wing / Tie Fighter had ISD turrets placed on where it had no turrets. It placed heavy turrets along the upper wedge in a V shape, and 2 on the underside. This was done so you can't just fly under it and shoot at it in your X wing onto infinity. The turrets however were not shield protected.

- Empire at War also had wrong hardpoints. Same as Tie Fighter or BFG games, you can't simulate every small AA turret.

-Rebellion/ Supremacy also did this by having ships fire 1 shot that was an accumulation of all their guns of turbolaser or ion type.

-Battlegrounds had units only use 1 gun type. Tie Bombers could only bomb, not strafe with laser cannons.

Thus using video games for lore is a bit unwise.

Same with 40k, Baneblade in Dawn of War games never has its turret autocannon working. It is a prop that doesn't fire. Like how Battlegrounds has the AT-ST only use an ion gun, when it should have a dual blaster gun and 2 weapon pods on the side.

But what are we supposed to do for 40K, when the IP owners outright state that the books aren't canon, and the movies that they do pump out contradict the books as well?

I mean, if it's like Star Wars and the books ARE canon, then we can throw away the games for the sake of canon consistency and just run with the books and films. SWEU books are canon to the SWEU, Disney canon books are canon to Disney Star Wars. But 40K's owners in Games Workshop stated multiple times that the books aren't canon and are full of propaganda, misremembered legends, and outright bullshit. Their words, not mine. It's the exact opposite of the SWEU authors and Lucasfilm employees who insisted, right up to before the Disney sale, that the EU was canon to the Star Wars storyline.

I am just documenting how dying franchises are mismanaged. Whenever it is by Disney or GW.

GW and Lucas and Disney all saw background material as a nuisance that stood in the way of toy sales.

Lucas employed a team of loremasters that kept the lore consistent. Hence why when a tech manual says that turbolasers can go up to 200 gigatons, they couldn't have put that calc in unless all the books supported that claim, and what do you know, turbolasers being strong enough to glass planets is supported by the books, both before AND after that calc was made. Even fucking Disney supported that calc with the Darth Vader comics.

It is just easier to say it is non canon, nothing matters. Just consume product and get excited for new product.

Disney separated the SWEU canon from their canon, creating two canons. They even created stuff like Knights of the Fallen Empire which is still canon to the old SWEU. GW just said there's no canon for Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and there never was.

Another funny is neutronium. Whenever used by any faction, it is never accurate to just how heavy the stuff would be.
It is used by 40k, has been used in either SW Galaxies or SW TOR, it is in Star Trek, yet it is never as heavy as it should be.

But then again Mandalorian had Lizzo on a planet, without sinking to the core, so maybe antigrav tech can counteract its weight?

Why is this shit happening? Because Disney and GW fucked their franchises to the ground and there is nothing they put out worth discussing.

Oh my soy, it is the new Disney+ series or the mext Primaris Lieutenant, this time with a new pose! Must buy, consooooom!

Disney canon is as consistent as a drunk fratboy, but that doesn't mean the old SWEU canon gets dragged down too, especially when the old Lucasfilm staff did care about canon consistency and often had books cross-reference each other and have authors work with each other. Outside of oddballs like Karen Traviss, who left SW before Disney took over, most EU authors kept things consistent.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

You're both retarded.

 

[Ghostse]

You're both retarded.

Listen you shrivel dick faggot, Imaginatium is clearly a better material than Fantasite. The Void Rangers would absolutely wipe the floor with the Vacuum Legionaries. And I don't need sit silently and put up with retards who suggest otherwise.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Listen you shrivel dick faggot, Imaginatium is clearly a better material than Fantasite. The Void Rangers would absolutely wipe the floor with the Vacuum Legionaries. And I don't need sit silently and put up with retards who suggest otherwise.

They will all fall before the power of the Silentium Troopers and their eldritch god, the Flying Spaghetti Monster of Antioch.

 

[Godzilla@1989]

Daily reminder.

This asshole is the reason Star Wars is driven into the ground, hard.

I guarantee he never watch a second or frame of Episodes 1-6. Just saw the box office and merchandising profits George made.

Even wonder why he allowed Alan Horn to question what the Force and Jedi are without watching a second of those films or allow Kathleen to fuck around for three films? It’s because this turbo cunt never watched any of those movies, and we the fans are getting fucked hard because of it.

Just remember, fuck this clown.

 

[Adamska]

It’s because this turbo cunt never watched any of those movies, and we the fans are getting fucked hard because of it.

It's even worse than that; he actually thought that the current iteration of the Rat could outdo George due to the prequel reactions at the time, how Marvel was going through strength, and how the initial reaction to the Force Awakens went. He reacted to it with pure hubris, thinking that it was just going to print money, no matter who worked on it.

He got arrogant and left the running to Kathy, and tripledowned on it due to corporate refusal to lose face and idiotic politicking.

And it ain't knowing or remembering lore. Dave 'Wolffucker' Filoni did and does; he just doesn't give a shit if it remotely interferes with his garbage fanfiction and might force him to change plot points on irrelevant horseshit. You can get statements by that cowboy hat wearing faggot that he supported the sequel Trilogy to prove how conniving this fucker is. Fat Fuck Hidalgo actively lied and played propagandist before the Ls forced him to drop the act.

The rat has 24/7 admin support disguised as fans to historically mangle Wookiepedo, and could regularly use it as a back-up source in case.

They legitimately took Dark Empire, one of the more key pieces of canon due to it expanding on force powers, and mangled it into a funhouse mirror version while ignoring how a decent amount of diehards had issues with it. They laced it with other less good EU pieces to further prop up their stillbirth of an idea, which they never bothered to plan out after yeeting the Lucas and then another idea outline in favor of Darth Abram's Box of Mysteries. Dave to this day is desperately trying to force through a shithole version of the Thrawn Trilogy even as he makes him the dumbest loser in the universe.

They know the lore exists. Several of them HAD to have read the outline of it to steal the ideas from them. Even those who didn't had minions to read it to them as needed. They even use it as key jangling horseshit; it's just they don't give a single fuck, since they arrogantly thought their incompetent asses could outwrite George. And besides the freak accidents of Mando and Andor; they proved that they were worse than him in every way possible. And that's saying a lot given George is notoriously shit at directing actors to give lines well, and he's bad at writing dialogue.

They struggled to and in most cases could not even beat Lucas on his worst days in the Prequels. They were still consistently near or worse than him during the TCW era where he clearly was giving up on finding a successor and tuning out of the creative process too.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Daily reminder.

This asshole is the reason Star Wars is driven into the ground, hard.

I guarantee he never watch a second or frame of Episodes 1-6. Just saw the box office and merchandising profits George made.

Even wonder why he allowed Alan Horn to question what the Force and Jedi are without watching a second of those films or allow Kathleen to fuck around for three films? It’s because this turbo cunt never watched any of those movies, and we the fans are getting fucked hard because of it.

Just remember, fuck this clown.

View attachment 7200578

He's a symptom of the disease, not the actual disease. Blaming him is like blaming the pimples or the rash on your face, instead of actually looking at what caused them.

Given how everything Hollywood and the Left touches burns to the ground, what happened to Star Wars is not a unique phenomenon. You have to understand, people like Bob Iger are used to commanding others in real life, as well as basking in the respect among their peers. They succeeded in life. They make millions. Telling them that they should learn about the lore of some space war movie that most laugh off as a thing for kids is like, telling a Hollywood star that he should read up on the lore of DnD before making a DnD movie. It's just not happening. They see nerds as losers and weirdos, and they think that ignoring the wishes of said losers and weirdos is A-OK. They wouldn't lower themselves to the same level that the nerds and weirdos are at.

They trampled all over Marvel lore when making the MCU, turning Thanos from a dude who only cares about Lady Death to suddenly caring about overpopulation and balance. The people ate it all up and Disney made billions off that stuff. So no shit, they'd approach Star Wars the same way, especially when voices like RLM already demonized Lucas for them, telling people that the SWEU doesn't matter, that anyone else can do a better job than Lucas, and making the next series be more dumbed-down and to copy the Original Trilogy is the right way to go. So are we truly surprised when Disney chucked the lore into the garbage can and made a hollow facsimile of the first film? Especially when TFA DID give Disney massive financial success?

It's even worse than that; he actually thought that the current iteration of the Rat could outdo George due to the prequel reactions at the time, how Marvel was going through strength, and how the initial reaction to the Force Awakens went. He reacted to it with pure hubris, thinking that it was just going to print money, no matter who worked on it.

A lot of people enabled that hubris. Years of people saying that Disney can do movies better than Lucas, years of Lucas getting demonized and the fact that the Disney sale and the announcement that they would be making SW movies was met with joy from the public. And in the early years of Disney, people cheered them on, cheered Lucas' exit, and cheered Disney as they threw out decades' worth of lore to make a hollow copy of the first film. And the worst part is, THEY SUCCEEDED. TFA was a massive critical and commercial success. So if you were in Bob Iger's shoes, you would be proud, indeed.

The people only turned away once TLJ disrespected their childhood heroes and made them rethink their opinions of Lucas. That, and the rising Millennial/Gen Z culture making the Prequels into meme-machines.

And it ain't knowing or remembering lore. Dave 'Wolffucker' Filoni did and does; he just doesn't give a shit if it remotely interferes with his garbage fanfiction and might force him to change plot points on irrelevant horseshit. You can get statements by that cowboy hat wearing faggot that he supported the sequel Trilogy to prove how conniving this fucker is. Fat Fuck Hidalgo actively lied and played propagandist before the Ls forced him to drop the act.

Like Iger, Filoni was enabled by the fact that his large fanbase supported him. They didn't care about the SWEU lore he trampled; they didn't care that he made his Ahsoka be more of a Mary Sue than Starkiller, Revan, and Kyle Katarn combined. They loved that shit, ate it all up, which convinced Filoni to keep on pushing, since his legions of fans and defenders continued to cheer him on. It's only recently with the Ahsoka show getting a tepid reaction did he slow down.

They legitimately took Dark Empire, one of the more key pieces of canon due to it expanding on force powers, and mangled it into a funhouse mirror version while ignoring how a decent amount of diehards had issues with it. They laced it with other less good EU pieces to further prop up their stillbirth of an idea, which they never bothered to plan out after yeeting the Lucas and then another idea outline in favor of Darth Abram's Box of Mysteries. Dave to this day is desperately trying to force through a shithole version of the Thrawn Trilogy even as he makes him the dumbest loser in the universe.

Them copying Dark Empire for Rise of Skywalker was due to the failure of TLJ. It was just a "Hail Mary" play knowing that they're going to fail anyways, so why not go all balls-out, copy the most bombastic of the SWEU classical stories, and put MaRey Sue on top of it, because they knew they were screwed.

As for Dave, if TCW's positive reception from the fanbase inflated his ego, the people screaming for more Baby Yoda probably ballooned it to the size of the Death Star. At that point, he thought he was untouchable, so he didn't care if he made the Star Wars version of Sun Tzu/Alexander the Great look like a jackass.

They know the lore exists. Several of them HAD to have read the outline of it to steal the ideas from them. Even those who didn't had minions to read it to them as needed. They even use it as key jangling horseshit; it's just they don't give a single fuck, since they arrogantly thought their incompetent asses could outwrite George. And besides the freak accidents of Mando and Andor; they proved that they were worse than him in every way possible. And that's saying a lot given George is notoriously shit at directing actors to give lines well, and he's bad at writing dialogue.

Their minions among the fanbase know the lore. They don't. They occasionally look through the lore to borrow things like Dark Troopers, Mandalorians, Inquisitors, among other things. The average Disney exec sees people who know SW lore as weirdos and freaks; sure, they're weirdos and freaks you can make money off from, but they're still disgusting weirdos and freaks. Hence why they had no problems calling the fans who hated them "racist, sexist, bigots". Because behind closed doors, they've always hated the geeks and nerds, seeing these "saps" as plebs beneath their notice.

They struggled to and in most cases could not even beat Lucas on his worst days in the Prequels. They were still consistently near or worse than him during the TCW era where he clearly was giving up on finding a successor and tuning out of the creative process too.

That's because Lucas still treated Star Wars like his baby. He obviously wanted it to succeed and have a point to the story. He still possessed that animus, that zeal for good storytelling, even when at most, he knows some pieces of it and not the whole thing. But the same could not be said for Filoni and Disney; Filoni just wants to make his characters the new main characters of Star Wars, and Disney just wants another MCU-style money printer, nothing more.