Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

And speaking of Kuvira's story, it could've gone the same. After the New Republic takes over, they become relaxed and decentralized, as a reversal of Palpatine's extreme centralization during the height of Imperial rule. However, this leads to many of the outlying worlds in the Outer Rim being left to fend for themselves. You can then introduce a few well-meaning Imperial remnants who left the core systems instead of disarming, and they use what's left of their military might to eradicate pirates, extragalactic invaders, and feuding factions, in order to create a lawful and organized society in the Outer Rim.

The people, thankful for the Empire's efforts, openly embrace their new rulers and begin to harbor hatred towards the Republic which abandoned them, leading to a Cold War scenario as both sides start to build up arms due to their mutual distrust of each other. You can even have a lot of Imperial loyalists from the Core Worlds emigrate and join them because they disagree with how the New Republic runs things. They use their economic and technical skills to help the Outer Rim systems develop the economy further, which makes them an economic rival to the Republic-aligned Core Worlds.

A border skirmish between the two factions eventually snowballs another war between the Empire and the New Republic, once diplomatic talks break down and hostilities have mounted to a point where it's beyond salvaging.
I wanted the warlords era of the Empire from the old EU to bridge the original and sequel trilogy, the Empire remaining a galactic faction, but a shadow of its former self

The villains in the sequel trilogy being more like the villains of Kotor 2, using subterfuge and clandestine tactics to strike at the heroes. The New Republic will have won the war, but be losing the peace.

I want the last set piece of the saga to be Coruscant burning to the ground as the villains put it to the torch, in the end the center of the galactic government is gone, both the sith and jedi order functionally gone, the galaxy dividing like the Roman Empire, and hopefully the franchise can end there or find a new path free from the shackles of the previous movies
 
Disney’s writers want the Rebellion to be the LARPing as 1900s leftist revolutionaries, but it does make me think about how an actual class-based revolution would work in Star Wars.

We don’t get much of a class consciousness in Star Wars. We have some trade unions. The homeworld of the Gran species, Kinyen, is governed under the socialist demarchic Tayan League.

It would be fun to see a communist uprising in the Corporate Sector. Or, given how monarchies are prevalent in the galaxy, have an anarcho-monarchy.
 
He hates Sidious so damn much because man replaced him and set him up to die in his mind. It was specifically realizing that he was a replaceable tool that made him hate Palpatine that much.
I found Maul's sudden Harlequin/Mill & Boon writing-style flowery soliloquies in the last season of Clone Wars to be fucking hilarious. He went from saying one or 2 words in the entirety of The Phantom Menace, to monologuing like Bloefeld in a 70's Bond film. I know everyone blames Kathleen Kennedy and her merry band of queer writers for fucking up Disney Star Wars, but damn, Filoni is just as bad, if not, worse!

Wookiees make good slaves because a lot of them have technical knowledge, they're strong, and they have a lot of stamina. They were also unflinchingly loyal to the Republic and Jedi, so they were a natural target of the Empire.

True. Although I've noticed there's been a trend with Disney Star Wars, depicting the empire as specifically enslaving animal (or animal-like) races. For example the Lepi rabbit people (wait, is Jaxxon canon now?) were depicted as slaves in a few of those Star Wars cartoon shorts.
 
I found Maul's sudden Harlequin/Mill & Boon writing-style flowery soliloquies in the last season of Clone Wars to be fucking hilarious. He went from saying one or 2 words in the entirety of The Phantom Menace, to monologuing like Bloefeld in a 70's Bond film. I know everyone blames Kathleen Kennedy and her merry band of queer writers for fucking up Disney Star Wars, but damn, Filoni is just as bad, if not, worse!
Funny enough, Prequel haters like the Nostalgia Critic saw that as an upgrade. They complained that Maul didn't do enough in TPM, so Lucasfilm turned him into Sith Shakespeare as a response.

Again, everything you're getting in the New Star Wars was a response of people bitching at Lucas and the PT for their supposed "flaws", then Lucasfilm comes in to "correct" them. And yes, the same crowd that rag on the PT for how "bad" it was, is now the same crowd worshiping at the feet of Dave Filoni and how TCW "redeemed" the Prequels. In their view, Maul was redeemed because he went from a silent assassin to a Dark Side Shakespeare.

True. Although I've noticed there's been a trend with Disney Star Wars, depicting the empire as specifically enslaving animal (or animal-like) races. For example the Lepi rabbit people (wait, is Jaxxon canon now?) were depicted as slaves in a few of those Star Wars cartoon shorts.
Not all animal races suffered. The Trandoshans, for instance, got off real well. And they're not the only ones. Tarkin's wife hosted a ball where aliens who were allied with the Empire showed up, and they didn't look human in the least.

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Leia described them as "Imperial Lackeys", meaning they weren't just guests of honor, but outright allies of the Empire.

Disney’s writers want the Rebellion to be the LARPing as 1900s leftist revolutionaries, but it does make me think about how an actual class-based revolution would work in Star Wars.
That's not gonna work in the SW galaxy, where you have different species and worlds. It'd be hard for you to convince the people of a world to turn against their own elites, when they probably would have more hate for you or the elites of other worlds. Like what happened with the Clone Wars, where the elites of both sides were hated by their enemies, not their own people.

We don’t get much of a class consciousness in Star Wars. We have some trade unions. The homeworld of the Gran species, Kinyen, is governed under the socialist demarchic Tayan League.
There's also the Chagrians where there's a welfare state that ensures everyone is well-taken care of.

It would be fun to see a communist uprising in the Corporate Sector. Or, given how monarchies are prevalent in the galaxy, have an anarcho-monarchy.
Communist uprisings probably won't work there; it'd be more a democratic uprising inspired by New Republic/Alliance ideals. Or a pro-Imperial coup which would put it under Imperial control.
 
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That's not gonna work in the SW galaxy, where you have different species and worlds. It'd be hard for you to convince the people of a world to turn against their own elites, when they probably would have more hate for you or the elites of other worlds. Like what happened with the Clone Wars, where the elites of both sides were hated by their enemies, not their own people.
My issue with the SW Galaxy - which started arguably in the Clone Wars (& was an issue even before Disney got their dumb claws on the property) - was that the Republic should have let the Separatists do their own thing, not gone to war with them.

Sure, many involved in the separatist movement had sinister goals (like the Cato Institute tossing endless cash behind Libertarian politicians. They don't care about personal freedoms - they just want to deregulate environmental laws so they can dump toxic waste into rivers or whatever Captain Planet-villain evil the late Koch Brothers' would get up to) - but to paint the Separatists as evil is throwing they baby out with the bathwater. If planets in the galaxy wanted to exercise their autonomy and not participate in the Republic, than the Republic (if it were fair) should have left them be! Since the Separatists leaders were all unceremoniously slaughtered by Vader (& a few by Republic forces) we have absolutely no idea what a Separatist galaxy would have looked like. Would it have ended up like the Empire? Honestly, I'm not so sure.
 
What's also funny is that the Empire wasn't just good for Naboo, but for Ryloth as well. The local Imperial ruler was busy snorting space crack and enjoying the presence of green comfort women to do anything else:


It got to the point where the officers under the Moff even allowed the local Twi'leks to police themselves. Yet, the Ryloth Resistance Movement couldn't leave well enough alone; they had to start an uprising right when Darth Vader and the Emperor were visiting, causing the latter to force the Moff to shape up her act and be more proactive. Which eventually led to the situation we had in Rebels, where Thrawn of all fucking people was there, looting the place for cultural artifacts while giving the locals no freedom whatsoever. So it's obvious that the local Moff got replaced, and her replacement was more active in oppressing the locals, as opposed to just leaving them to rule themselves.

The Rebels haven't figured out that sometimes, it's just not worth it.

And before anyone says that Ryloth was good under the Republic, it was not. It was a horribly poor system. Hence why the Senator who represented them pigged out the moment he got to the galactic capital of Coruscant. Not only were they targeted by the Seps, but they were also constantly harassed by pirates and slavers in the years before the Clone Wars. Literally, putting turbolasers on some civilian mines was an upgrade compared to what came before:


My issue with the SW Galaxy - which started arguably in the Clone Wars (& was an issue even before Disney got their dumb claws on the property) - was that the Republic should have let the Separatists do their own thing, not gone to war with them.
That was Lucas' point. The fact that the Jedi went along with trying to force systems that seceded from the Republic to come back was a corruption of their ideals, and the start of their path to destruction; supporting an almighty state that one day, decided the Jedi were no longer tolerable.

Sure, many involved in the separatist movement had sinister goals (like the Cato Institute tossing endless cash behind Libertarian politicians. They don't care about personal freedoms - they just want to deregulate environmental laws so they can dump toxic waste into rivers or whatever Captain Planet-villain evil the late Koch Brothers' would get up to) - but to paint the Separatists as evil is throwing they baby out with the bathwater. If planets in the galaxy wanted to exercise their autonomy and not participate in the Republic, than the Republic (if it were fair) should have left them be! Since the Separatists leaders were all unceremoniously slaughtered by Vader (& a few by Republic forces) we have absolutely no idea what a Separatist galaxy would have looked like. Would it have ended up like the Empire? Honestly, I'm not so sure.
It'd probably be just a bigger Corporate Sector; many of the Sep leaders wanted a state with an unlimited commitment to capitalism.
 
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They're getting it from both ends. The dangerhairs think it's their mission to "deconstruct" Star Wars and show that good things are actually bad because of "toxic cishet bro fans" or whatever. The 75 IQ bideojamers are obsessed with "grey Jedi" and "the badass 501st" and how the Imperials were mostly innocent professionals because they have a 12-year-old's understanding of what's cool or just watched Clerks for the first time or are just Nazis flailing to reconcile their real-world politics with George Lucas's series about hippies rebelling against an authoritarian government. The idea of just writing a story where the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad and extending something resembling the themes the first six movies wanted to express is out of fashion. And most of all, the creators who can appeal to one set of political retards or another to cover up their bad writing are a dime a dozen and can be instantly replaced with the next one off the line as soon as they cause trouble, which Disney loves.
 
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They're getting it from both ends. The dangerhairs think it's their mission to "deconstruct" Star Wars and show that good things are actually bad because of "toxic cishet bro fans" or whatever. The 75 IQ bideojamers are obsessed with "grey Jedi" and "the badass 501st" and how the Imperials were mostly innocent professionals because they have a 12-year-old's understanding of what's cool or just watched Clerks for the first time or are just Nazis flailing to reconcile their real-world politics with George Lucas's series about hippies rebelling against an authoritarian government. The idea of just writing a story where the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad and extending something resembling the themes the first six movies wanted to express is out of fashion. And most of all, the creators who can appeal to one set of political retards or another to cover up their bad writing are a dime a dozen and can be instantly replaced with the next one off the line as soon as they cause trouble, which Disney loves.
Fuck no. Much of the joy of playing as the Empire is just playing as the wall-chewing bad guys who have the power to act like assholes and absorb it in. It's just that the new lore and parts of the old lore can just have holes in it which lead to the opposite of their intended message. I mean, why did the largest citizen-army in the galaxy keep serving the genocidal space warlocks? Why are the good guys either ineffective Rebels who fuck up half the time, or using child soldiers in the form of teenage Jedi and ten-year-old Clone Troopers? And this got worse with Disney lore, since the new writers for it, both Filoni and Gilroy, they both think terrorism is a valid strategy for the good guys.
 
The prequels did an incredibly good job of answering the question of "why did people put up with the Empire" - because it was the culmination of a generations-long plan to present the Empire as the only stable alternative to an all-consuming war that killed quadrillions of people. Then we got JJ Abrams and a bunch of stupid Disney writers who can't accept that and build on it, because they are still mentally trying to impress a 2002 AOL chat room full of children by showing how much they disregard the prequels.
 
The prequels did an incredibly good job of answering the question of "why did people put up with the Empire" - because it was the culmination of a generations-long plan to present the Empire as the only stable alternative to an all-consuming war that killed quadrillions of people. Then we got JJ Abrams and a bunch of stupid Disney writers who can't accept that and build on it, because they are still mentally trying to impress a 2002 AOL chat room full of children by showing how much they disregard the prequels.
Can you blame the Disney corpos, though? Their advisors probably told them that appeasing the PT haters would lead to windfall profits, because they're the loudest voices in the room, and it worked as far as TFA and Rogue One. So of course they went with it. They don't care about the movies' story quality, only that the money is flowing.
 
The prequels did an incredibly good job of answering the question of "why did people put up with the Empire" - because it was the culmination of a generations-long plan to present the Empire as the only stable alternative to an all-consuming war that killed quadrillions of people. Then we got JJ Abrams and a bunch of stupid Disney writers who can't accept that and build on it, because they are still mentally trying to impress a 2002 AOL chat room full of children by showing how much they disregard the prequels.
Very well said. Excellent post.
Can you blame the Disney corpos, though? Their advisors probably told them that appeasing the PT haters would lead to windfall profits, because they're the loudest voices in the room, and it worked as far as TFA and Rogue One. So of course they went with it. They don't care about the movies' story quality, only that the money is flowing.
The main feeling i had driving home from my first time seeing TFA was that star wars was now in the hands of people who didn't care that much about it.

Back then i had never really considered there were people who were huge fans of the star wars movies, but NOT the EU. I guess i figured anybody who loved the movies would want more, but the praise that piece of shit got made me realize there are a lot of them. People who maybe played one or two of the games, but didn't think much about them, ignored the prequels, and just watched the OT a trillion times over.

I adore the OT but if that had been ALL there was of star wars growing up it wouldn't have had nearly as big a place in my hear.
 
Very well said. Excellent post.

The main feeling i had driving home from my first time seeing TFA was that star wars was now in the hands of people who didn't care that much about it.

Back then i had never really considered there were people who were huge fans of the star wars movies, but NOT the EU. I guess i figured anybody who loved the movies would want more, but the praise that piece of shit got made me realize there are a lot of them. People who maybe played one or two of the games, but didn't think much about them, ignored the prequels, and just watched the OT a trillion times over.

I adore the OT but if that had been ALL there was of star wars growing up it wouldn't have had nearly as big a place in my hear.
I actually always had a hard time talking about Star Wars to people irl when it came up in conversation because it feels like I'm talking about something else entirely. Even before Disney Star Wars was a thing most people only cared about the og trilogy and TCW and wanted to talk about that, I fucking love the og trilogy so that seems good until I realize I've read Brian Daley's radio drama versions more than I've actually seen the movies lol. There's a lot of differences between the films and those adaptations, it's two different worlds entirely really so I always had to switch up my thinking to level with the person I'm talking to. And that's not even considering the fact that when I do watch the og trilogy films I watch the unaltered original cuts instead of the mega altered special editions that most people watch today. People will want to have a conversation about the prequels and how trash they are but I can't be more lost because I've read the novels more than I've seen the movies and 99% of the points people bring up are non existent in the books, If I bring up some of the events from Cloak of Deception or The Approaching Storm or some shit I might as well be speaking a different language to them as well.

I've only met one other person irl that actually read the EU books and that's it so I always knew that only a select group of fans cared about any of that stuff, which just makes the scope and the amount of work the writers put into the EU making it so large and cohesive with everything way more impressive. Very interesting that a fairly small scale book and comic company put so much care and love into the story and world building of their product while a multi billion dollar industry of films and television shows can't be bothered to put that much work or love into their products.

It should be noted that the video games were the main way most people enjoyed the EU, I've met tons of people that grew up playing the Star Wars EU video games. That being said, a lot of people probably aren't aware of much outside of the video games and probably think they are still canon to the Disney timeline if they even think of "canon" as a concept at all.
 
This idea that the Rebellion has to forfeit the moral high ground to do dirty things against the Empire not only goes against their previous characterization in the old SWEU and the classical films, but it also makes for bad tactics. The Empire is constantly slandering and propagandizing against the Rebels, constantly making them look like terrorists. The last thing the Rebels need is hard evidence of such behavior being seen by the populace, or being presented by the Empire. It made practical sense for the Rebellion to stay on the moral high ground, as it allowed them to attract people of good, moral fiber into their ranks, including many Imperials who got sick of committing war crimes for the Empire, people like Crix Madine, for instance. That gave them a valuable military advantage that they were able to use to win the war in the end.

Meanwhile, if you have this backstab-happy Rebellion that can't even be trusted by its allies, that kills its operatives, a Rebellion that relies on chaos to fan the flames of dissent, then that would drive away the people with moral fiber, (AKA the people you need to build a stable army and society) and instead attract more of the criminal and terrorist element, making the dream of creating a peaceful New Republic down the line a pipe dream, as these idiots would do what it takes to stoke the flames of chaos, while also giving the Empire a propaganda win in the form of hard evidence that the Rebels are criminals and terrorists; instead of joining the Rebels, the people with moral fiber would either stick with the Empire and wipe out these radicals, or just disengage from the galactic political scene entirely.

But don't tell that to the Andor and Rebels fans; their heroes are the kind who carry out terrorist actions in broad daylight, in front of the commonfolk who could get hurt. The kind that would provoke a government to crack down on its citizens when previously, it left them alone to rule themselves. The kind that would send child soldiers against the enemy, while sacrificing/taking out their own allies when it's convenient. In other words, they've begun to worship the death of morality in the battlefield, and it's quite dark, if you look at it objectively. Especially considering the fact that the Rebel Alliance of old was squeaky-clean when it came to this shit, yet they still inspired fans in real life and in-universe to follow their lead.

Very well said. Excellent post.

The main feeling i had driving home from my first time seeing TFA was that star wars was now in the hands of people who didn't care that much about it.

Back then i had never really considered there were people who were huge fans of the star wars movies, but NOT the EU. I guess i figured anybody who loved the movies would want more, but the praise that piece of shit got made me realize there are a lot of them. People who maybe played one or two of the games, but didn't think much about them, ignored the prequels, and just watched the OT a trillion times over.

I adore the OT but if that had been ALL there was of star wars growing up it wouldn't have had nearly as big a place in my hear.
When it comes to my view of Star Wars, I never separated the old SWEU with the OT/PT films. To me, they're one big canon, and it's even moreso with the PT where it was shot with the intent that the SWEU was canon. I only learned about the movies/EU divide from bitchy VS Debaters who don't want to count feats from the SWEU as canon in a debate when debating Star Wars with other universes, because if they did count the SWEU, they'd lose immediately.
 
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It makes sense but also is meaningless. Actors deny being part of projects they've involved in. Actors also change their mind for many different reasons.

I assume Luke is going to be in the Mandolorian movie and they'll do the whole, "Mark Hamill helped play him" and they'll do the sad thing of having fat old Hamill on set in costume with out any of that being used in the final film. With another actor and a CGI head.
 
A tweet on modern Star Wars I actually agree with
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Disney fans always seem to drift between "Hardhitting satire of the US empire" and "Dumb bullshit for babies that an adult shouldn't get worked up about". It reminds me of CinemaSins: Just a joke video but also all my dumb complaints about the movie are perfectly valid.
 
A tweet on modern Star Wars I actually agree with
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Disney fans always seem to drift between "Hardhitting satire of the US empire" and "Dumb bullshit for babies that an adult shouldn't get worked up about". It reminds me of CinemaSins: Just a joke video but also all my dumb complaints about the movie are perfectly valid.
It's whatever excuse they wish to trot out. It's both a complex, hard-hitting satire of the US Empire and a dumb kiddie flick with wizards and space magic.

You're not dealing with people who have a consistent message; you're dealing with people making excuses for idiocy. And it makes sense, given that it's that fanmade idiocy that got Lucas to sell in the first place, especially since they did the same for the PT but in reverse.

"Kids don't want political scenes" they said. Meanwhile, they worship other IPs for doing the same thing.
 
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