🐱 ‘Star Wars’ Spotlights Trans Non-Binary Jedi Characters

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

Antipathy said:
She tried to run away, got captured, broke herself out without effort, and then basically made Kylo her bitch, and proceeded to never lose a fight to him. Do you need to remember that Kylo is a Sith, and Rey is an untrained idiot, except she can do high level Force techniques, because Mary Sue. It's also absurd because Finn was (probably) combat trained (being a Stormtrooper), and got his ass kicked in seconds under the exact same circumstances.

TLJ is her not doing anything of substance, other than, you know, beating (a horribly out of character) Luke Skywalker in a fight, getting Snoke killed and saving the Knockoff Rebellion with a feat of Force power on the level of Yoda, and killing half of Snoke's Red Guards. Without any training. Because... Mary Sue. With Anakin, he was trained by Jedi Masters. With Luke, quite a bit of time passes between each movie of the OT, so there's realistically time for him to advance. With Rey, she is not trained by anyone and no time passes at all between TFA and TLJ, so where the hell did she get so strong from? Mary Sue.

None of her actions have negative consequences for her. Everything she does succeeds either in the short or long term. She also never lost a fight, aside from that tiny moment of weakness in the throne room, which, of course, lead to Snoke's death anyway. So she won there. She just didn't instantly win right there and then by converting Kylo because there needed to be another movie.

Even the original Mary Sue got captured in a moment of weakness, just to break herself out again. Rey is the gold standard of Mary Sue, worse than Kaldor Draigo, Captain Marvel, or Bella Swan.

1: Everyone, even the villains, love and respect and fear her instantly. She's the thing everyone talks about. She instantly is trusted and liked by all the good guys, and even the antagonists have an obsession or infatuation with her that is completely illogical.

2: She instantly and randomly has or gains powers that would take years, decades, or even a lifetime to master, often without any training or advanced knowledge of said powers. Sometimes, she has them without being aware they even existed. She can use the force and duel with a lightsaber on the level of a master... in a day or two after learning these things even exist.

3: She has no meaningful character flaws. They're all either informed, or don't actually get her into any trouble. None of her actions hurt her or cause any issues for her allies, and she wins fights and encounters she realistically should not. Never once does anyone say anything negative about her. Never once does she make a mistake.

4: Other, established characters bend and twist around her. Luke Skywalker became a cowardly, homicidal hermit. Han Solo became a gaping, widemouthed dumbass. Leia got shoved into a corner because Carrie Fisher was dead, but also because there's only room for one strong woman anyway. Poe and Finn don't do anything that she can't do better, despite realistically having training or experience that would make them better at either flying ships or fighting people, respectively.

5: Everything is done by her hand. Basically the entirety of TFA and TLJ were people blundering around until Rey, through no initiative of her own, sets the plot in motion, with the exception of Death Star III getting blown up by Poe.

Kylo isn't a sith, he's a retarded edgelord that got groomed by Darth Bad Touch and had a giant hole in his side when Rey beat his ass. Rey, who might not have had formal training but raised herself on a violent shithole and was established early on as having fighting skills.

Finn got his ass kicked because Kylo was actually trying to kill him, unlike Rey who he wanted to train. Before that he actually held his own very well and honestly spent the movie doing more ass kicking and problem solving than Rey did.

Even with being able to mind trick one(1) stormtrooper, if Luke can make a one in a million shot in the first movie and Anakin can win a pod race as a child, Rey can do a single mind trick. Tbh mindtricking one stormtrooper is tame compared to what Luke and Anakin did.

Already debunked that list of criteria in my other autistic walls of text. Simba fits all of them though, except possibly 2.

Actually, fuck it, I'll bite on 4. How the fuck was Han even remotely a gaping dumbass in TFA? The only thing even remotely close to that is him being impressed that she managed to get his shitmobile running, and he certainly wasn't being a dumbass about it. Luke became a homicidal hermit because he tried to kill his nephew, shit had absolutely nothing to do with Rey. Even Lucas wanted Luke to be in exile in his ideas for a sequel trilogy so if Luke being a hermit makes you REEEEE take it up with him. You're trying to insist Rey is a Mary Sue for shit that straight up didn't actually happen, didn't involve her, or was planned long before she was created.

Antipathy · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
Kylo isn't a sith, he's a retarded edgelord that got groomed by Darth Bad Touch and had a giant hole in his side when Rey beat his ass. Rey, who might not have had formal training but raised herself on a violent shithole and was established early on as having fighting skills.

Finn got his ass kicked because Kylo was actually trying to kill him, unlike Rey who he wanted to train. Before that he actually held his own very well and honestly spent the movie doing more ass kicking and problem solving than Rey did.

Even with being able to mind trick one(1) stormtrooper, if Luke can make a one in a million shot in the first movie and Anakin can win a pod race as a child, Rey can do a single mind trick. Tbh mindtricking one stormtrooper is tame compared to what Luke and Anakin did.

Already debunked that list of criteria in my other autistic walls of text. Simba fits all of them though, except possibly 2.

Kylo isn't a Sith, he's just a trained force user with a lightsaber and a couple of rather high end abilities. Let's not split hairs here. Kylo wanting to train Rey, for no reason, is first of all, an assumption, and secondly, a sign of Mary Sue. There's no reason he'd want to do that. He doesn't know her, she isn't valuable. He never said or implied anywhere in TFA that he wanted an apprentice and seemed perfectly content to obey Snoke.

Qui Gon wanted to train Anakin because he thought Anakin was the Chosen One. Obi-Wan wanted to train Luke because Luke was Anakin's son. Kylo wanted to train Rey because... Mary Sue. This falls under Point 1. Or he didn't, wanted to kill her, and lost despite showing he wasn't slowed down much by that injury. Either it's a Point 1, with Kylo irrationally obsessed with her, or a Point 2, with her randomly having powers. Either way, it's a Mary Sue.

The Force providing a boost to physical attributes, IE, reflexes and precision, doesn't seem to be as advanced a power as a Mind Trick or telekinesis. Luke could use the Force to boost his own physical abilities, to a point, in A New Hope, but needed to train until Return Of The Jedi before he could even attempt a Mind Trick. Anakin could boost his reflexes with the Force in Phantom Menace, but needed years of training before attempting techniques as basic as telekinesis in Attack Of The Clones. Compared to what Luke and Anakin could and did do by even Return Of the Jedi and Revenge Of The Sith, respectively, Rey was matching them in The Force Awakens!
Rey could somehow use both Mind Tricks and telekinesis completely untrained on the level of a Jedi Grandmaster, untrained. This falls under Point 2.

As for Finn kicking more ass, did we watch the same TFA? He did basically nothing and needed to be saved by Rey constantly. He was the least useful character in the entire movie and served primarily as an exposition dump by saying he cleaned that area. You could very easily put him and knockoff ball R2D2 together to form a single character, and the story wouldn't change at all. He was there to tick off the "black" diversity box.

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

Antipathy said:
Kylo isn't a Sith, he's just a trained force user with a lightsaber and a couple of rather high end abilities. Let's not split hairs here. Kylo wanting to train Rey, for no reason, is first of all, an assumption, and secondly, a sign of Mary Sue. There's no reason he'd want to do that. He doesn't know her, she isn't valuable. He never said or implied anywhere in TFA that he wanted an apprentice and seemed perfectly content to obey Snoke.

Qui Gon wanted to train Anakin because he thought Anakin was the Chosen One. Obi-Wan wanted to train Luke because Luke was Anakin's son. Kylo wanted to train Rey because... Mary Sue. This falls under Point 1. Or he didn't, wanted to kill her, and lost despite showing he wasn't slowed down much by that injury. Either it's a Point 1, with Kylo irrationally obsessed with her, or a Point 2, with her randomly having powers. Either way, it's a Mary Sue.

The Force providing a boost to physical attributes, IE, reflexes and precision, doesn't seem to be as advanced a power as a Mind Trick or telekinesis. Luke could use the Force to boost his own physical abilities, to a point, in A New Hope, but needed to train until Return Of The Jedi before he could even attempt a Mind Trick. Anakin could boost his reflexes with the Force in Phantom Menace, but needed years of training before attempting techniques as basic as telekinesis in Attack Of The Clones. Compared to what Luke and Anakin could and did do by even Return Of the Jedi and Revenge Of The Sith, respectively, Rey was matching them in The Force Awakens!
Rey could somehow use both Mind Tricks and telekinesis completely untrained on the level of a Jedi Grandmaster, untrained. This falls under Point 2.

As for Finn kicking more ass, did we watch the same TFA? He did basically nothing and needed to be saved by Rey constantly. He was the least useful character in the entire movie and served primarily as an exposition dump by saying he cleaned that area. You could very easily put him and knockoff ball R2D2 together to form a single character, and the story wouldn't change at all. He was there to tick off the "black" diversity box.

Kylo wanted to train Rey because he's a lonely, horny idiot and related to the whole force sensitive kid that was abandoned thing. Kylo is my favorite SW character and the butthurt fanboys clutching pearls over Rey never fail to greatly overestimate his competence. Kylo is basically space Jace. No shit he got his ass kicked by some feral desert gremlin when he just killed his dad and had been bleeding everywhere for a good minute.

Finn beat the shit out of a bunch of troopers in the same battle Rey was running the fuck away from. With the legacy saber that Rey just said hell fukkin nah and chucked as she was running the fuck away.

He also helped fix and fly the Falcon and up until Kylo beat his ass was just as active and involved in shit as Rey if not moreso.

Btw being a super special chosen one is a pretty common Sue trait. I'd say being the Chosen One(tm) makes Anakin more of a Sue, not less. If Anakin can be the super speshul awesome chosen one, then Rey can be a white trash girl strong in the force frenemies with a retarded goth.

The fact that dudes like you always have to ignore like half the shit Rey does and twist and even make up random shit that doesnt happen to make Rey fit the Sue definition is pretty telling. As is how yall inevitably get massively butthurt when I point out a character you personally like like Simba is just as bad a Sue as Rey is (personally I think Simba is way worse).

You know, I think you and the bad comics featuring bad token alphabet soup characters deserve each other. Two peas in a giant, autistic pod.

TowinKarz · Apr 4, 2021

Maybe Rei isn't a Mary Sue, but, she is quite obviously an attempt by Disney to bury everything Star Wars did before her as irrelevant and make everyone love her more than the beloved characters she replaced.... and while that could have worked if done correctly, they were so desperate for cash and asspats for their "bravery" that they didn't pass the torch to her as much as lit everything else around her on fire.... because they wanted that successful next generation Tumblr and male feminist approved cash-cow, and they wanted it NOW!

Hence the disaster that was the Disney Trilogy.... in an effort to make her the star, they destroyed everything else either on purpose through IDPOL injections or through bungling by rushing it out the door without a coherent story that actively thumbed it's nose at canon and it's creators excused with comments about there being no expanded universe material to work with, showing themselves to be either liars or ignorant of things even minor SW fans know of like the Dark Horse comics or the Zahn novels.....

And they didn't even have to do it, that's the tragedy...... they owned the whole franchise.... they'd make money off the "old" stuff too... .they just couldn't, in their hubris, stand the fact that what they made, might not be even MORE popular than preexisting films. So, everything before TFA had to go..... because it wasn't DISNEY and the execs can't handle the thought that what they come up with isn't the best ever.

It was the same thing as a person who, despite their family telling them they love them just how they are, opts to get plastic surgery anyway because the fact they have C instead of D cup breasts makes them depressed, and dies on the table due to a surgeon's mistake..... it ended worse for everyone, and it wasn't even necessary.... you lost it all over things that 99.9% of people wouldn't even recognize as problems.

Hollywood Hulk Hogan · Apr 4, 2021

If you care this much about Star Wars you are an even bigger loser than the people this thread is talking about

Antipathy · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
Kylo wanted to train Rey because he's a lonely, horny idiot and related to the whole force sensitive kid that was abandoned thing. Kylo is my favorite SW character and the butthurt fanboys clutching pearls over Rey never fail to greatly overestimate his competence. Kylo is basically space Jace. No shit he got his ass kicked by some feral desert gremlin when he just killed his dad and had been bleeding everywhere for a good minute.

Finn beat the shit out of a bunch of troopers in the same battle Rey was running the fuck away from. With the legacy saber that Rey just said hell fukkin nah and chucked as she was running the fuck away.

He also helped fix and fly the Falcon and up until Kylo beat his ass was just as active and involved in shit as Rey if not moreso.

Btw being a super special chosen one is a pretty common Sue trait. I'd say being the Chosen One(tm) makes Anakin more of a Sue, not less. If Anakin can be the super speshul awesome chosen one, then Rey can be a white trash girl strong in the force frenemies with a retarded goth.

The fact that dudes like you always have to ignore like half the shit Rey does and twist and even make up random shit that doesnt happen to make Rey fit the Sue definition is pretty telling. As is how yall inevitably get massively butthurt when I point out a character you personally like like Simba is just as bad a Sue as Rey is (personally I think Simba is way worse).

You know, I think you and the bad comics featuring bad token alphabet soup characters deserve each other. Two peas in a giant, autistic pod.

Kylo Ren, being a Dark Side user, would logically be empowered by the Dark Side after killing his father, considering the whole fear + anger + hate. The fact that even with this boost, and the fact that his injury was minor and probably would've amped him up further, he jobbed to Rey, who he would still be trying to disarm (probably quite literally) and wound to capture if he wanted to train her (POINT 1), shows that something is clearly wrong. Obviously, he was a little bitch not on par with Vader, Maul, or Dooku, but he was still actually trained, and Rey was not, so he should've won.

Being the Chosen One can be a Sue trait, sure, but as outlined above, Anakin isn't a Mary Sue due to most everything he did blowing up in his face spectacularly. Anakin was born through literal immaculate conception and he still wasn't the strongest or best. Rey, by contrast, never made a single action that hurt her in any meaningful way, and is instantly the most powerful person in the room the moment she starts attempting any task. There's no sense of threat, since she's never hurt. She won every single fight in the movies she was in.

Mary Sue is a sense of relative power to setting. This is why Rey is a Mary Sue, and Superman doesn't necessarily have to be (although he can be, and has been, depending on the author.) An ordinary 40k Space Marine would be a Mary Sue in low fantasy, but in the confines of 40k, isn't. In the words of Syndrome: "When everyone's special... no one will be."

The entire trilogy falls apart on itself because at the most fundamental level, the basics of storytelling are violated and the main character wins without effort. Sure, protagonists usually win, but they usually learn, suffer, and change first. Rey skips development and ends the franchise exactly the same person as when she started. TFA is just a poor man's ANH, TLJ is a schizophrenic mess of a film seemingly made out of malice, and I couldn't even bring myself to watch TROS, but from what I know of it, it was JJ Abrams, in all his limited ability, desperately trying to fling enough shit at the wall to lurch towards a conclusion.

As for Simba, no, I was just curious, I never saw The Lion King and thus can't actually make an argument about things. The fact that you've been crying salt for a page because I hurt your precious Space Twilight Mary Sue feminist "icon" by leveling the obvious claim that a completely infallible, nearly invincible, universally loved character who outshines everyone at everything ever is a Mary Sue shows that I'm striking a nerve.

Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
If you care this much about Star Wars you are an even bigger loser than the people this thread is talking about

I never said I wasn't a loser. Shouldn't you be posting mediocre takes on everything on a different thread, though?

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

TowinKarz said:
Maybe Rei isn't a Mary Sue, but, she is quite obviously an attempt by Disney to bury everything Star Wars did before her as irrelevant and make everyone love her more than the beloved characters she replaced.... and while that could have worked if done correctly, they were so desperate for cash and asspats for their "bravery" that they didn't pass the torch to her as much as lit everything else around her on fire.... because they wanted that successful next generation Tumblr and male feminist approved cash-cow, and they wanted it NOW!

Hence the disaster that was the Disney Trilogy.... in an effort to make her the star, they destroyed everything else either on purpose through IDPOL injections or through bungling by rushing it out the door without a coherent story that actively thumbed it's nose at canon and it's creators excused with comments about there being no expanded universe material to work with, showing themselves to be either liars or ignorant of things even minor SW fans know of like the Dark Horse comics or the Zahn novels.....

And they didn't even have to do it, that's the tragedy...... they owned the whole franchise.... they'd make money off the "old" stuff too... .they just couldn't, in their hubris, stand the fact that what they made, might not be even MORE popular than preexisting films.

It was the same thing as a person who, despite their family telling them they love them just how they are, opts to get plastic surgery anyway because the fact they have C instead of D cup breasts makes them depressed, and dies on the table due to a surgeon's mistake..... it ended worse for everyone, and it wasn't even necessary.... you lost it all over things that 99.9% of people wouldn't even recognize as problems.

Lucas was also planning on having a female protagonist in his ST ideas. If you think something having a female protagonist and some non-white characters is idpol bullshit, I don't know what to tell you other than you're just as clueless to what idpol actually is as you are to what a Mary Sue actually is.

Also lol yes a movie you don't like is totally comparable to someone dying from botched plastic surgery.

TowinKarz · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
Lucas was also planning on having a female protagonist in his ST ideas. If you think something having a female protagonist and some non-white characters is idpol bullshit, I don't know what to tell you other than you're just as clueless to what idpol actually is as you are to what a Mary Sue actually is.

Also lol yes a movie you don't like is totally comparable to someone dying from botched plastic surgery.

I never even saw the movie... so I'm not defending it or trying to crush it for political points. I'm just trying to make sense of the fan animus as an "old school" Star Wars fan who saw Return of the Jedi in theatres... and never got on board with the prequels as to me they just seemed like loud CGI-filled popcorn trash, with my original thoughts on TFA from the trailers being the same, "hmmm, looks like more gussied-up special effects and very little characterization think I"ll pass" And the word of mouth I've been hearing since is that I was right, the Disney Trilogy are just the prequels, with a Disney Princess main character. Yawn.

The problem isn't female protagonists, it's badly-written ones.

Rei probably would've worked if they'd have stretched out her "hero's journey" from scrap peddler to Jedi Knight over the three films.... but Disney demanding eveyrone love her and be in awe of her by the end of the first film (for merchandise/Disney princessifacation reasons) is why everyone hates her.

Not because she's a woman, but because she represents everything wrong with a woke megacorp trying to produce entertainment these days..... can't let the story organically evolve, gotta have the success NOW.

Isn't it Disney right now trying to get rid of every female character in The Mandalorian? Who happen to be, popular with fans? And are FIGHTING the fans as being toxic because they don't APPROVE of the removal of said "problematic" women?

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

Antipathy said:
As for Simba, no, I was just curious, I never saw The Lion King and thus can't actually make an argument about things. The fact that you've been crying salt for a page because I hurt your precious Space Twilight Mary Sue feminist "icon" by leveling the obvious claim that a completely infallible, nearly invincible, universally loved character who outshines everyone at everything ever is a Mary Sue shows that I'm striking a nerve.

Dude you've been crying salt for pages too because I dared to point out the girl space wizard isn't the worst character in anything ever and its dumb how butthurt people still are over her. This thread included a dude unironically calling the sequel trilogy Satanic as well as people comparing it to family members dying. I think that shows a much bigger nerve being struck than any of my autistic text walls.

This could be the last post I make ITT and I guarentee it would still go on for at least a couple more pages with dudes baaaawing about how the new space wizard movies literally ruined their lives forever and how dare a Star Wars protagonist do typical SW protagonist shit but as a new character and a girl so that means she's the worst Mary Sue to ever exist (even though Rey doesn't hold a candle in Sueness compared to any of the characters I mentioned).

The sequel trilogy exists, EU got tossed, Rey is a pretty standard SW movie protagonist at worst, no Star Wars movie will ever be as good as the OT was when you were a kid, cry more.

Antipathy · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
Lucas was also planning on having a female protagonist in his ST ideas. If you think something having a female protagonist and some non-white characters is idpol bullshit, I don't know what to tell you other than you're just as clueless to what idpol actually is as you are to what a Mary Sue actually is.

Also lol yes a movie you don't like is totally comparable to someone dying from botched plastic surgery.

I'm fine with female characters, and black characters. Metroid and Aliens? Mace Windu in the Prequels? Lando Calrissian and Leia in the OT? I'm totally fine with these. Stop strawmanning people as bigots because they don't like a shitty, subpar product riddled with elementary writing errors and a Mary Sue so egregious that it has become the fucking textbook definition of Mary Sue. Female Jedi? Totally reasonable. I just want basic competence in the creation of these characters. It's idpol bullshit that this random character just wins at everything forever, it's idpol bullshit that the casting lineup feels like a checklist for minorities given how little most characters do, and it's idpol bullshit that I've been slandered as a sexist, a bigot, and a Nazi by pointing out that this random Mary Sue is indeed a Mary Sue. Not by you, but by Disney.

Android raptor said:
Dude you've been crying salt for pages too because I dared to point out the girl space wizard isn't the worst character in anything ever and its dumb how butthurt people still are over her. This thread included a dude unironically calling the sequel trilogy Satanic as well as people comparing it to family members dying. I think that shows a much bigger nerve being struck than any of my autistic text walls.

The fact that you've stopped even bothering to defend the Mary Sue and have shifted almost entirely to personal attacks is evidence you're getting fucking assblasted. You can like your shitty movies made by predatory megacorporations all you want, just remember it's still a Mary Sue.

Male Idiot · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
A whole fucking lot of autism.

Wow you are a massive retard.

I love how they just look like bald dudes and their names have the Naitsirc treatment. But SJWs get the quality they deserve.

Hollywood Hulk Hogan · Apr 4, 2021

Antipathy said:
I never said I wasn't a loser. Shouldn't you be posting mediocre takes on everything on a different thread, though?

Is that how you guys are coping now days?

Antipathy · Apr 4, 2021

Male Idiot said:
Wow you are a massive retard.

I love how they just look like bald dudes and their names have the Naitsirc treatment. But SJWs get the quality they deserve.

I like how, once the retard gave up on convincing me that Rey isn't a Mary Sue, it immediately turned to calling me a sexist.

Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
Is that how you guys are coping now days?

Help me, Hulk Hogan, I'm so autistic and and also alone. Ever since Macho Man Randy Savage abandoned the Kiwi Farms, you're all I have left.

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

Antipathy said:
I like how, once the retard gave up on convincing me that Rey isn't a Mary Sue, it immediately turned to calling me a sexist.

Show me the receipts honey, because I'm pretty sure I never said a word about sexism unless you're having an interesting Freudian slip.

Antipathy · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
Show me the receipts honey, because I'm pretty sure I never said a word about sexism unless you're having an interesting Freudian slip.

Ahem

Android raptor said:
This could be the last post I make ITT and I guarentee it would still go on for at least a couple more pages with dudes baaaawing about how the new space wizard movies literally ruined their lives forever and how dare a Star Wars protagonist do typical SW protagonist shit but as a new character and a girl so that means she's the worst Mary Sue to ever exist (even though Rey doesn't hold a candle in Sueness compared to any of the characters I mentioned).

Emphasis mine. The implication being, if this blatant Mary Sue were a male, I wouldn't mind, implies I am sexist.

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

Antipathy said:
Ahem

Emphasis mine. The implication being, if this blatant Mary Sue were a male, I wouldn't mind, implies I am sexist.

Or maybe its implies you're a retard that thinks a Mary Sue is a female protagonist with long brown hair you personally dislike because you first saw the term from people bitching about Twilight (and its female Mary Sue protagonist who has long brown hair).

That said an A&H poster being a sexist would be about as surprising as an A&H poster being an antisemite. And you did openly admit you like at least one blatant Mary Sue that's a dude (James Bond).

Now that I think about it, the Bond series is more or less just Twilight for boomer dudes. Like isn't it just schlocky wish fulfillment about a dude that's a super awesome badass spy that always saves the day and bangs hot chicks and lives in luxury and shit? And even when he's a raging asshole it's ok because he's such an awesome badass?

Troonologist PhD · Apr 4, 2021

TowinKarz said:
I never even saw the movie... so I'm not defending it or trying to crush it for political points. I'm just trying to make sense of the fan animus as an "old school" Star Wars fan who saw Return of the Jedi in theatres... and never got on board with the prequels as to me they just seemed like loud CGI-filled popcorn trash, with my original thoughts on TFA from the trailers being the same, "hmmm, looks like more gussied-up special effects and very little characterization think I"ll pass" And the word of mouth I've been hearing since is that I was right, the Disney Trilogy are just the prequels, with a Disney Princess main character. Yawn.

The problem isn't female protagonists, it's badly-written ones.

Rei probably would've worked if they'd have stretched out her "hero's journey" from scrap peddler to Jedi Knight over the three films.... but Disney demanding eveyrone love her and be in awe of her by the end of the first film (for merchandise/Disney princessifacation reasons) is why everyone hates her.

Not because she's a woman, but because she represents everything wrong with a woke megacorp trying to produce entertainment these days..... can't let the story organically evolve, gotta have the success NOW.

Isn't it Disney right now trying to get rid of every female character in The Mandalorian? Who happen to be, popular with fans? And are FIGHTING the fans as being toxic because they don't APPROVE of the removal of said "problematic" women?

Wokies hate strong women.

Android raptor said:
Or maybe its implies you're a retard that thinks a Mary Sue is a female protagonist with long brown hair you personally dislike because you first saw the term from people bitching about Twilight (and its female Mary Sue protagonist who has long brown hair).

That said an A&H poster being a sexist would be about as surprising as an A&H poster being an antisemite.

“I never called you sexist!”
*calls him sexist*
You are fucking retarded.

Android raptor · Apr 4, 2021

Troonologist PhD said:
Wokies hate strong women.

“I never called you sexist!”
*calls him sexist*
You are fucking retarded.

We're posting in a thread about Star Wars on an autistic shitposting forum. We are all retards.

Though nah, I wasn't calling him sexist, just a retard that has no fucking clue what a Mary Sue actually is and only knows the term from people bitching about Twilight almost 10 years ago.

That said, this is a forum where I see "islam is right about women" posts on at least a weekly basis along with all the other usual thunderdome hatred of Jews and black people and whatever. It's A&H. Half the people here are rejects from /pol/ who wandered in for the Christchurch thread and never left. Trying to say there are no sexists here is even more retarded than sperging about fictional space wizards.

Troonologist PhD · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
We're posting in a thread about Star Wars on an autistic shitposting forum. We are all retards.

Though nah, I wasn't calling him sexist, just a retard that has no fucking clue what a Mary Sue actually is and only knows the term from people bitching about Twilight almost 10 years ago.

“You’re a sexist!”
“I did not call you sexist.”
You’re really bad at this.

Antipathy · Apr 4, 2021

Android raptor said:
Or maybe its implies you're a retard that thinks a Mary Sue is a female protagonist with long brown hair you personally dislike because you first saw the term from people bitching about Twilight (and its female Mary Sue protagonist who has long brown hair).

That said an A&H poster being a sexist would be about as surprising as an A&H poster being an antisemite.

Mary Sue is a nebulous term but I use it in the context of a character without meaningful flaw or obstacle. Phenotype or sex is irrelevant. I mentioned Kaldor Draigo as a Mary Sue earlier, because he is (or was, I haven't kept up on that shit and retcons fly pretty hard and fast in 40k when it comes to characterization). I also mentioned some incarnations of Superman (and also Batman, while we're at it.)

While I doubt a male Rey counterpart would have been written given who was writing and in charge of Disney Star Wars, if one was, I would still point it out.

Here is my extended definition of Mary Sue, and why Rey is one:
A Mary Sue is a character who experiences no obstacle, has no flaws that are relevant to the story, and is unrealistically fawned over by other characters. A Mary Sue is defined by arbitrary, unearned abilities, items, or accolades, bizarre character relationships where nobody insults the Mary Sue, and anyone who opposes the Sue is viewed as evil or wrong, and who never fails in a meaningful sense. Established competent characters are often made incompetent for the sake of the Mary Sue.

Mary Sues are typically protagonists, and are often also author self-inserts, but this need not be mandatory. Mary Sues are often viciously defended by their creators, but this also need not be mandatory. Most Mary Sues also, by nature of their infallibility, have little actual personality, having at best a vague array of quirks, and at worst, no definable traits whatsoever beyond "strong" or sometimes "feisty".

Because of these things, Mary Sues remove all tension from a plot, and thus, all reason to care. Over the past page I have exhaustively pointed out why Rey fits the above mention: All her flaws are informed or headcanon, all characters unconditionally like her, or are incredibly interested in her, despite her having no actual charisma or personality, she randomly gains or has a massive array of abilities at levels far beyond what she realistically should have, and she never once makes a meaningful error in three movies or loses a fight. Characters who dislike her are universally portrayed as stupid and often ugly. Established competent, charismatic, intelligent characters become incompetent, fearful, and reclusive so she may have their spotlight.

Despite all this, she has no definable personality traits and is impossible to describe as a person without either extensive headcanon or using source material outside of the movies.

While not a strictly defining term, Disney (and you) were all too eager to leap to the defense of this character, slandering me (and many like me) as Nazis, bigots, sexists, retards, what-have-you, over a label being applied to a fictional character, and my distaste towards a movie.

I understand full well what the term Mary Sue means, even though it is a nebulous and somewhat difficult to define term considering how often it has been used and misused in discourse. Stop slandering me as a retard, a sexist, a bigot, or whatever. Either you can show me an instance of Rey not being a Mary Sue, or you cannot. I've demonstrated why Luke and Anakin are not Mary Sues/Gary Stus (namely their repeated failures, people not liking them and not being portrayed as stupid or evil for doing so, their naivete or ego as character flaws that get them into genuine trouble, respectively), and I've demonstrated, ad nauseum, why Rey is.

🐱 ‘Star Wars’ Spotlights Trans Non-Binary Jedi Characters

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

Extreme Repugnance

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

You'll Soon Get Your Thumbuppance.

I cyberbully Thunderdome incels

Extreme Repugnance

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

You'll Soon Get Your Thumbuppance.

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

Extreme Repugnance

Das rite!

I cyberbully Thunderdome incels

Extreme Repugnance

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

Extreme Repugnance

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

Be happy

Ignore this user's posts about abortion & church

Be happy

Extreme Repugnance