Team Four Star - Creators of a bunch of stuff to make people laugh trying to figure out what to do after a decade of comedically retelling Dragon Ball Z.

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Does the thing created and marketed specifically to young boys in the late 80s-90s really deserve criticism for not having more strong women? If anything I think we should be impressed they don't spend most of their panel time getting upskirted or having beach episodes.
Now that I think about it, the series is actually remarkably tame when it comes to fanservice like that, Bulma was part of the team since day one even if she wasn't a fighter, and to my count we've seen Goku naked way more than her.
 
Now that I think about it, the series is actually remarkably tame when it comes to fanservice like that, Bulma was part of the team since day one even if she wasn't a fighter, and to my count we've seen Goku naked way more than her.
She was in a playboy bunny outfit and showed her ass when she flashed Roshi in the first volume but for the most part yeah she wasn't really used for fan service in the original manga.

But because it had Japanese sensibilities where women quit their jobs and become house wives when they get married, unlike modern western sensibilities, then that makes Toriyama awful to them.
 
But because it had Japanese sensibilities where women quit their jobs and become house wives when they get married, unlike modern western sensibilities, then that makes Toriyama awful to them.
Which is funny because Bulma is quite progressive in being a CEO, a scientist, and a mom even with her vanity still intact. Guess girlbosses just aren't allowed to be flirty.
 
Which is funny because Bulma is quite progressive in being a CEO, a scientist, and a mom even with her vanity still intact. Guess girlbosses just aren't allowed to be flirty.
They're strong and wildly independent and don't need no man
However bulmas evolution isn't wholly unbelievable, being married to the king of effort in the form of Vegeta certainly would force you into a success in your own fields, you either embrace the power couple or you accept your lack of a spine and to be mogged by your partner until one of you dies
He beds no weaklings
 
Isn't it ironic that in a series meant (I guess) to teach kids that you can achieve anything if you train hard enough, the king of effort who trains like a psychotic madman always comes second to the guy who just was born the strongest?
I know Goku has never technically beaten Vegeta straight up, but I don't think Goku's coming in second in the grand scheme of things.
 
Isn't it ironic that in a series meant (I guess) to teach kids that you can achieve anything if you train hard enough, the king of effort who trains like a psychotic madman always comes second to the guy who just was born the strongest?
I thought Goku had to train to get where he was. There was even a point to where Bardock was stunned at his low power level.
 
I thought Goku had to train to get where he was. There was even a point to where Bardock was stunned at his low power level.
Well yeah, his kid is technically the strongest being in the universe but he's more interested in books than fighting. To become super sayian for the first time, Goku just had to become very very mad... and he was supposed to be the only one until Toriyama's editor threatened him with a katana.

And there's that scene where Goku picks up the Kamehameha technique in a minute with Roshi commenting that he had to train all his life for what this little shit learned without effort.
 
I wonder if that means the kamehameha isn’t all that special. The galick gun is basically the same thing but purple so there’s probably a ton of kamehameha-likes out there
 
And there's that scene where Goku picks up the Kamehameha technique in a minute with Roshi commenting that he had to train all his life for what this little shit learned without effort.
I wonder if that means the kamehameha isn’t all that special. The galick gun is basically the same thing but purple so there’s probably a ton of kamehameha-likes out there

To be fair, all of Roshi's students quickly picked up that technique. Goku just did it first.
 
To Roshi’s credit, he don’t have anyone to show him how it was done. He had to basically invent the technique wholecloth with only theories about Ki to guide him.
 
It mostly is. I still really like it though.

I'm already a sentai fan and I think the more low-stakes superhero work/"trying to balance being normal and a superbeing" stuff is cool. I like Gohan and Videl as a couple too, which helps.

I wish the Saiyaman stuff lasted longer before sprinting towards the Tournament shit.
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I always found it endearing and in character for someone like Gohan to like henshin heroes. Outside of saving the Earth (and anime filler) Gohan lived a basically isolated childhood. That along with Chi-chi's overemphasis on studying and Gohan would've never learned what was "cool" for a 17 year old. He would've fixated with one of the few outlets Chi-chi would've allowed which was cheesy do-gooders in tokusatsu media. I couldn't tell you where I first saw it, but I also like the fan theory that Goku would've snuck in comic super heroes in between all the books Chi-chi expected him to study.

It worked because Martin was an adult when he started watching the original, found it stupid but fun, and poked at it from a place of riffing. TFS on the other hand were all kids who grew up on DBZ and loved it. Kaiser admitted he used to mutter "Kaioken" to get through difficult moments. And most other abridgers were similar, they watched YGOTAS because they were fans of the original and liked poking fun at it, and then when they tried to copy LK's formula, they went for things they'd grown up on instead of something they'd never seen before and thought was ridiculous but still fun.

And I'll admit, I'm one of them, I grew up on DBZ and YGO (Even played the card game) and I still have some fondness for them. But I'm also adult enough to make fun of them and not add the reverence that TFS does.
From what I remember of DBZA, they very rarely touched upon all the edits that the English dub(s) had done. A lot of the humor from YGOA stems from changes in the 4kids dub. Shadow realm, fate of the world over card games, invisible guns, etc all originate from the 4kids dub. YGO is silly, but the 4kids dub did it (and many other anime for that matter) no favors. If they didn't like poking fun at the series, TFS should've focused on the dumb localizations. The problem was that A LOT of people have a huge fondness for those changes. Lots of people like the changes in the YGO dub but once they learn about it, rarely will anyone will tell you that they made the anime better or have a problem mocking them.

Does the thing created and marketed specifically to young boys in the late 80s-90s really deserve criticism for not having more strong women? If anything I think we should be impressed they don't spend most of their panel time getting upskirted or having beach episodes.
There's this weird thing that a lot "woke fans" (for lack of better term) do where they act very offended that female characters aren't made physically super strong in series where the conflict resolution is primarily resolved via violence. Personally, I think it's actually far more sexist to only see the worth in female characters when compared to their male counterparts. Bulma has already been brought up but she's the prime example. She's smarter than all the male cast but isn't a flawless. She can be vain and shallow but she ultimately cares a lot about her friends and family. She's better written and more well rounded than modern girlbosses. She's also continuously involved in the main story in some way or another. She gets better treatment than actual Z Fighers like Yamcha or Tien.

And there's that scene where Goku picks up the Kamehameha technique in a minute with Roshi commenting that he had to train all his life for what this little shit learned without effort.
Goten and Trunks go Super Saiyan as kids without any real effort or trauma. Things which were once meta defining eventually become afterthoughts.
 
Isn't it ironic that in a series meant (I guess) to teach kids that you can achieve anything if you train hard enough, the king of effort who trains like a psychotic madman always comes second to the guy who just was born the strongest?
Don't say that around here. I did in the DBZ thread and it was as if I had insulted people's families.
Goten and Trunks go Super Saiyan as kids without any real effort or trauma. Things which were once meta defining eventually become afterthoughts.
Vegeta does posit in his first appearance that unions between humans and Saiyans produce powerful hybrids. It's still silly, though, when even Gohan had to work hard for SSJ 1.
 
It's still silly, though, when even Gohan had to work hard for SSJ 1.
I'll do you one better and point out that Trunks had to work hard for SSJ 1, at an older age, in the future timeline.

Granted, kid trunks in the Buu saga is without a doubt leagues stronger than adult trunks in the android saga.
 
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