Why is the even a debate? No one is going to agree.
The two ideas are literally.
A) Abortions are baby murder.
Or
B) Abortions are not baby murder.
That being said. Spergpost time:
There is no scientific method of identifying the soul, consciousness is a collection of different things that we cannot realistically call yes or no on at any stage larger than a penny; and the emotional nature of the debate means that no one is going to agree with anything other than the ideas they came in with.
I think abortions are baby murder. Simple as that, no argument of 'My body!' is going to ever change my mind on that; and likely no amount of me going 'baby killer' back is going to change anyone else's mind. This entire thread is a perfect example of this. It's filled with women and cucks howling like babies are these bizarre parasites that will ruin their life and destroy their bodies and poison them and they have to have them out, out, out! If you don't want them, don't have sex. It's literally that easy. I think people should assume responsibility for their actions; and at the same time I think that abortion is no different to smothering a new born in the crib. Someone who is pro-killing babies likely sees it very differently.
But on the anti-baby murder side, banning abortions is literally the very last step in a long, long, loooong list of things that should be done beforehand. Pretty much no one one goes into an abortion clinic tittering about how much they love killing children (I'm sure you can find some strawman, or one will quote me, but they're not the norm.); it's an unpleasant, embarrassing and degrading experience to go through. No one plans to have an abortion when they have sex. People have abortions because they don't see an alternative. Fix the adoption system, the ease of access to tube tying, teach women to keep their legs closed and men not to fuck anything with a pulse. Deal with the fact that very young mothers having children are having their long term prospects literally destroyed by having the child. Raise sons that not only try not to act like fuck boys, but if they do get a girl pregnant will actually stick around; and be the sort of parents that help out as well.
An abortion is like abandoning a baby; no sane person is going to shrug and dump a baby on the side of the road; and no one looking at a person leaving a baby on the side of the road is going to think:
"Ah! That's a woman who has a strong financial situation, strong moral principles, a loving extended family, and lots of options." Banning abortions outright won't send them underground (The study that "Proved" that was performed exclusively on poor streetwalkers), but if you don't fix the conditions that lead to abortions you can sure as shit believe the rates of abandoned children, suicidal teen parents, broken homes and beaten girlfriends would rise through the fucking roof. A teenage girl getting an abortion because he boyfriend will kick the shit out of her isn't going to magically not get her head stomped in by Mr. Putsholesinthewallwhenhe'sdrunk because she had the baby, she's just going to expose herself and the baby to further violence.
Children are also pretty dammed expensive, you can't with one breathe chat about the sanctity of life, and then with the other dismiss the cost of raising that life. Childcare costs money and time; having a baby young prevents women from furthering the careers they need to earn a living. It would be great if it were the fifties and a guy working in an office can bring in enough to support three kids, a spouse and a house; but he cannot. Is it horrible that some women put money before the life of a baby? Sure; but you can also look at it as women being forced into having an abortion because they will be forced into a subsistence poverty lifestyle if they don't. Our society has become incredibly consumerist and incredibly money focused. Men are not willing to take care of women like they used to, and realistically most men cannot afford to. A two person income in most places is still barely enough. If society is not willing to offer women assistance, but will offer them an alternative, why wouldn't they take the alternative?
The issue of men is also another problem. What man in his earlier twenties is ready for children? I'm sure as shit not. I have debt I owe, work I need to do pretty much all the time. I don't have time for children. If I got my girlfriend pregnant, then the only rational financial choice to make. I honestly don't know how I would react; but that in of itself would not be a tick in the 'keep the baby' column. If even the idea of having a baby makes me go
'fuck my career is over because I now have to work full time instead of doing my dissertation.' and all I have to do by law is provide a pittance in financial aid, then she'd be having a fucking panic attack. I wouldn't want her to get an abortion, but for her is it a better option to have a baby, then both of us spend the next eighteen years working middling office jobs to raise them, or for her to have a procedure than makes the issue go away? If a man cannot offer a stable home life for a woman to feel confident in raising a child in then he's part of the problem. It costs in the UK around 250 a week for nursery. That's 9:30 - 3:30, that's time enough to work a dead end job and fuck all else.
Essentially TL;DR: An abortion is the result of multiple failures, failure to not have sex, failure to use protection, failure to raise men and women, failure to support your children, failure of society to support mothers, failure of men to support their partners. Trying to get rid of abortions without first fixing those issues is pointless. The idea of this cackling witch woman gleefully killing a baby is not helpful and is actively insane. Your mother, your sister, your cousin, your grandmother, your friends and your coworkers have all probably had to face the idea of aborting a baby for a variety of reasons. I guarantee you none of them did so with malice, and most of them probably would not want to do it; but given the choice between a life changing (for the negative) decision or 2-3 days of unpleasantness and guilt (or not, depending on the woman) most would choose the latter.
We as a society have made it impossible for women to take the good choice and have made it far too often a choice between two evils. Life is not some masterpiece that you hang on the wall of oblivion, existence is not the final answer. Life is meant to lived and used. Yes, abortion is a terrible thing, and yes it is a sin, and yes it is immoral; but so is denying women and girls the opportunity to properly live, so is having children in a terrible situation and so is demanding perfection from imperfect beings. The question shouldn't be 'How could you get an abortion' it should always be 'Why did you get an abortion; what caused you to choose this?'. It is overly simplistic to completely reduce this issue down to 'killing babies bad'. Of course killing babies is bad. But it's
never that simple. Right now if it was a choice between the conservative government banning abortion outright in the UK, or keeping it I'd rather they keep it. Because banning it would solve nothing except to hide the problem among battered spouse, abandoned children, abused children and broken home statistics. It genuinely disgusts me that I feel that way; but the reality of the matter is that I like my mother, I like my girlfriend, I like my sister and my aunt and my cousins. I don't want them to have their lives upended because they fucked up once and there is zero support for them.
Nah, pretty sure humans will continue to exist even if one woman never has kids. If anything, abortion means less dead women and girls.
If everyone behaved like the pro abortion countries did? Nope. Our birth rate is far below the needed for replacement. We'd be gone in about a hundred years. The only thing keeping American and European populations increasing is migration and anchor babies. But also 'have kids or humans will die out' is really fucking creepy ngl. People shouldn't have kids because they have to, they should have children because they want to.
