The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Lemmingwise]

Andrea Yates didn't just wake up one day and drown her kids for shits and giggles, she was a woman who endured years of her husband using her as a broodmare which only worsened her psychosis til the voices in her head convinced her that drowning her kids was saving them from a fate worse than death.

Considering she was mentally ill (even before meeting her husband) it seems strange to atttibute reasonable reasons why she murdered her children.

He was certainly beyond deluded. Still wanting to restart their family after she murdered their children. But let's mot act like she was a pure victim in this story either. It takes two people to get pregnant. She could have divorced him.

I'm just going by the wikipedia article, but I don't think he raped her?

To put the responsibility of those deaths (and of her mental illness) is completely absolving these factors. There's clearly plenty of blame to go around in this arc of a story, but are you really that deluded that not an iota of it belongs to her too?

 

[Android raptor]

Considering she was mentally ill (even before meeting her husband) it seems strange to atttibute reasonable reasons why she murdered her children.

He was certainly beyond deluded. Still wanting to restart their family after she murdered their children. But let's mot act like she was a pure victim in this story either. It takes two people to get pregnant. She could have divorced him.

I'm just going by the wikipedia article, but I don't think he raped her?

To put the responsibility of those deaths (and of her mental illness) is completely absolving these factors. There's clearly plenty of blame to go around in this arc of a story, but are you really that deluded that not an iota of it belongs to her too?

She was already mentally ill (just like I am), but the constant pregnancy and childbirth undeniably worsened her mental illness, especially since it made her unable to take her meds most of the time (can't take most psych meds while pregnant and nursing). Plus I'm pretty sure the weird fundie cult they were into didn't like meds anyway.

There were tons of warning signs, at one point she even tried to commit suicide because she was afraid if she didn't she'd hurt her kids. Iirc that sent her to psych ward for a bit, but as soon as she got out her husband was back at having her go off her meds so she could keep getting pregnant and crapping out kids. Even though every time she did she got crazier and crazier because again, pregnancy and childbirth is notorious for causing or worsening symptoms of mental illness. Her husband was one of those nutty Quiverfull types that believe women exist to pop out as many babies as possible, as quickly as possible, with no regard for their wellbeing.

She did choose to stay with him instead of getting a divorce and chose to carry out her pregnancies instead of aborting them, but at the same time I kind of wonder if she was cognizant enough to even consider the possibility of divorce (especially since I'm pretty sure that was another thing the fundie cult they belonged to didn't like). Like, if you're so delusional you're convinced drowning your kids is the only way to prevent them from burning in hell for eternity, there's a good chance you also believe divorce will cause hell burning and other shit.

Cases like Andrea Yates are part of why I've made the choice to never have kids, and to abort if heaven forbid I got pregnant. As much of an edgelord as I am that likes to joke about murdering babies, even I realize that murdering an actual baby is infinitely worse than yeeting an embryo and would much rather yeet an embryo so baby murdering never becomes a possibility. If nothing else, I'd rather not spend the rest of my life in prison for making dead baby soup. So I'm nipping it in the bud long before that becomes a possibility.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Her husband was one of those nutty Quiverfull

Why do I get the impression that you're giving her a defense for mental illness and not him? If he was nutty, would that same defense not hold for him too?

 

[Android raptor]

Why do I get the impression that you're giving her a defense for mental illness and not him? If he was nutty, would that same defense not hold for him too?

Because he wasn't literally hearing voices delusional batshit crazy, just an asshole with retarded religious beliefs.

 

[Muh Vagina]

Are you fucking comparing pregnancy to cancer?

To some women, the idea of getting pregnant and pushing a baby out is a fate comparable to cancer. And with good reason. It's fucking scary.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Bruh I've said there's a good chance I'd straight up murder a baby if I couldn't abort it as a fetus. Psychosis is probably the bare minimum that pregnancy would do to me since I'm already mentally ill and pregnancy/childbirth is notorious for making that shit worse. People like me are proof that some people should never be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth.

You wallow in your mental illnesses despite the fact that you're clearly able to process better alternatives-- people compelled by mental illness aren't able to do that. Or maybe you're actually unable to do so, in which case you're also incapable of even having this discussion... which may explain why you're keen on continuing to call me an incel despite the gestalt of my reasoning, as if you can't distinguish between appropriately holding women accountable for their decisions and being an adherent of some obscure philosophy wherein children are tools of punishment for women... for not having sex with... me.

I know that's something you pulled out of your ass just now and not some reasoning that actually exists in any incel community because at least an incel community would have beaten their desires into a philosophy less incoherent than that, even if it isn't reasonable.

Wild how giving FAS to a hypothetical fetus is reprehensible, but women and girls dying horribly in unsafe abortions is cosmic justice.

People-- not just women-- dying from something they inflicted upon themselves for no good reason in the process of killing any kind of innocent, especially their own unborn children, is something I freely call cosmic justice. Just not wanting a child when there are ways to resolve the matter without snuffing their lives out (or worse, crippling them before they even exit the womb) is beyond barbarism.

You do realize the fetuses die with these women and girls, right?

The fetus ends up in a situation where they'll unfortunately be killed due to the callousness of their own "mothers", in a way that kills either just them or them both. Best for the woman to not be able to walk away from behaving worse than an actual sow, who at least has the excuse of being an actual beast of the field.

And a lot of them already have children

It's unfortunate that they left their children behind on top of killing themselves while trying to kill their own offspring.

I can't be too surprised that a woman who would inflict any child she had with FAS would sympathize with the woman in this situation instead of her orphaned children.

To some women, the idea of getting pregnant and pushing a baby out is a fate comparable to cancer. And with good reason. It's fucking scary.

You haven't the slightest clue what either of those things are if you've even considered giving credence to those who equate them.

Stop being a fucking idiot.

 

[Android raptor]

>>>totally doesnt hate women
>>>says they're worse than pigs


Btw you realize it's not even just grown women that have died from unsafe abortions, but children as well? Like 16 year old Becky Bell, who died following an unsafe abortion due to her state not allowing minors to get them without parental consent. I'm sure girls even younger have died as well, since most girls hit menarche around middle school age (or younger). So not only are you cheering the deaths of women, but actual children as well. Aware, sentient, whole-ass children, not embryos.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Rape exists, you retard.

Even with rape taken into account, she's still far less likely to have to deal with abortion or pregnancy than anyone in this thread.

We have several times, actually. You just keep throwing an autistic tantrum because they go against your fee fees.

Where? Which one? Point it out. I'll wait.

 

[Android raptor]

Even with rape taken into account, she's still far less likely to have to deal with abortion or pregnancy than anyone in this thread. Though it would be really cool if there was a way to implant unwanted embryos into their bodies since they care so much about them and all.

Where? Which one? Point it out. I'll wait.

Pretty sure the people ITT that don't have uteruses are the ones the least likely to ever have to deal with pregnancy.

My risk is extremely low, but it ain't 0 and that freaks me the fuck out. Like I've said earlier it's highly unlikely I'll ever be struck by lightning, but I still stay the fuck inside during a thunderstorm.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Pretty sure the people ITT that don't have uteruses are the ones the least likely to ever have to deal with pregnancy.

My risk is extremely low, but it ain't 0 and that freaks me the fuck out. Like I've said earlier it's highly unlikely I'll ever be struck by lightning, but I still stay the fuck inside during a thunderstorm.

It takes two to tango. When men get a woman pregnant, they don't just walk away clean. They don't carry the pregnancy to term, but saying they don't have to deal with it at all would be incorrect.

And, as I said earlier, the chances of you getting pregnant from a rape are so small, its not worth going through life dreading it. That's not to say you should pretend that rape doesn't happen, or you should never take precautions to protect yourself. Far from it. I encourage you to maintain vigilance, but don't let that fear control your life.

 

[Lemmingwise]

>>>totally doesnt hate women
>>>says they're worse than pigs

It just seems to you that way, because you even prefer to identify and empathise with the mother who killed 5 of her children. You've got women on such a high pedestal, that anyone who argues for a more balanced perspective, one where both men and women can be culpable for their actions, is perceived as a woman hater.

I even as an idiot word searched for "pig", because I thought you might have a point. But of course you were making shit up again.

I'm sure girls even younger have died as well

Yes, a whole lot of pre-0 year old girls every year die due to abortion.

 

[Zarael]

Are we just going to ignore that autismo over here just said she'd happily induce fatal birth defects in a fetus so they die shortly after leaving the womb? Are we sure you don't have a fetish for child murder or something?

Unfortunately flat out misanthropy is often the endpoint of these views. When you devalue human life as just a "bundle of cells" it's not that far to just saying your autonomy simply outweighs the lives of other humans period. It's utilitarian thinking at its worst. Me, me, me, my rights, my body. The fact you've brought a life into the world and ended it without a thought because it was inconvenient is barely a blip. Because in the end what is the value of human life when weighed against the inconvenience it might cause me?

What is something that never enters into these discussions for the pro-abortion side? My duties, my responsibilities, my obligations for how I use my autonomy. I think that's telling.

 

[Android raptor]

It just seems to you that way, because you even prefer to identify and empathise with the mother who killed 5 of her children. You've got women on such a high pedestal, that anyone who argues for a more balanced perspective, one where both men and women can be culpable for their actions, is perceived as a woman hater.

I even as an idiot word searched for "pig", because I thought you might have a point. But of course you were making shit up again.



Yes, a whole lot of pre-0 year old girls every year die due to abortion.

Nah, I just empathize way more with actual people than I do embryos. I don't give a fuck about embryos.

If abortion bothers you so much, just pretend all aborted fetuses are female and destined to become evil thots that have unprotected sex with Chad and get abortions.


A sow is a female pig, fyi. Or other animal, but usually a pig. So nah, once again I'm not making shit up.

 

[Predilection]

Nah, I just empathize way more with actual people

Agreed. Abortion is one of our best defenses against the spread of niggers.

Anything that helps protect actual people from those sub-human ape creatures is a moral good.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

>>>totally doesnt hate women
>>>says they're worse than pigs

Everyone can tell you're an A&N regular because your ability to read has been shot to shit and you can still manage to act self-righteously.

Unless all women willingly abort their children literally only because they don't want them, there's zero indication that I gave that I hate all women and think they're worse than pigs. Stop hiding behind your vagina as you concoct schizophrenic distortions of reality.

What the hell are you screencapping for, as if you're preserving anything for posterity when you yank comments out of context?

Nah, I just empathize way more with actual people than I do embryos.

Not if you'd willingly inflict congenital defects onto a fetus you'd be giving birth to (supposedly, because you couldn't get an abortion).

 

[Vulva Gape]

If you're a pro life dude you should get a vasectomy and freeze your sperm and then use IVF if you ever want to get kids. Or never have sex other than for purposes of procreation. I mean that's the standard you want women to live to, so why not do it yourself?

 

[ABE LINN COHN]

The way I see it, the left is proposing a solution to the problem that is morally abhorrent to the other side, that is, what the other side views as murder. The right is proposing a solution that shouldn't be seen as nearly as objectionable to the other side, that is, abstinence and personal responsibility. Therefore, as a compromise that should satisfy both sides, abortion should be banned and abstinence encouraged. When 99% of abortions are done for pregnancies that were 100% preventable if the two parties just abstained, I don't see how the left can object to this solution.

 

[Nom Carver]

The way I see it, the left is proposing a solution to the problem that is morally abhorrent to the other side, that is, what the other side views as murder. The right is proposing a solution that shouldn't be seen as nearly as objectionable to the other side, that is, abstinence and personal responsibility. Therefore, as a compromise that should satisfy both sides, abortion should be banned and abstinence encouraged. When 99% of abortions are done for pregnancies that were 100% preventable if the two parties just abstained, I don't see how the left can object to this solution.

Because they can't feed their degenerative sex addiction. They're more than willing to come up with bullshit or quote "muh science" without actually bringing in any sources to back up their points to justify killing unborn children so they can fuck more. And then they wonder why they're so unhappy.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

@Zero Day Defense, enabling women to abort if they do not wish to have kids is the entire point of the procedure

The entire point of the procedure is the medically induced termination of gestation. The reasons for why one would procure an abortion is a different, though adjacent, discussion.

There are abortions that occur because of medical emergency. There are some that occur due to the circumstances of the conception being far from ideal (i.e. rape or incestuous rape). The main justification, however, begins and ends at the woman or anyone pressuring her not wanting the child.

You are not entitled to a stronger justification as you have made no substantiated points proving that fetuses are living beings

If you can't tell that an organism that has its own DNA, has human progenitors, and grows into different forms that can be intuitively arranged into a narrative of "human development" is a "living being" (and far more importantly, a living human being), then you have no business participating in a discussion about the costs of drinking orange juice right after brushing your teeth, much less abortion.

This isn't to mention that I've made the case for the humanity of the human fetus probably multiple times in this thread, and you're making this response very late in my involvement.

Slander @Android raptor however you like,

You also don't know what "slander" is, never minding that slander is spoken. There isn't a single accusation I've made against @Android raptor that isn't outright what she's written of herself or is otherwise necessarily resultant of such.

but you are giving me the impression of being far more unhinged than she is in spite of her self-admitted shortcomings.

This woman said that she'd drink hard enough to kill her kid if she couldn't get an abortion, either by way of automatic miscarriage or by so severely disfiguring the child that he would die shortly after birth. Not even getting into the likelihood that the child would "only" end up being afflicted with severe FAS, and not even getting into the fact that she would sooner say she'd do this than say that she'd arrange for the child's adoption so that at least his life wouldn't be in imminent danger from her, it's certain that you're very absent in this conversation and have no business in it until you get a grip of what everyone's saying. And if you gotten to that point and you haven't recoiled at the fact that such people not only exist but continue to successfully justify their existences, then there's probably nothing that can be done for someone so detached from reality.

If you're a pro life dude you should get a vasectomy and freeze your sperm and then use IVF if you ever want to get kids.

Let's ignore the false equivalence for a moment: you realize that IVF involves the generation of multiple embryos, right? Seeing as it's impossible to use all those embryos outside of all but one of them failing implantation, do you understand that the only other option is ultimately to destroy the other embryos if you achieve success prior to exhausting all of them?

In other words, the aftermath of IVF is often abortion still.

 

[Vulva Gape]

The way I see it, the left is proposing a solution to the problem that is morally abhorrent to the other side, that is, what the other side views as murder. The right is proposing a solution that shouldn't be seen as nearly as objectionable to the other side, that is, abstinence and personal responsibility. Therefore, as a compromise that should satisfy both sides, abortion should be banned and abstinence encouraged. When 99% of abortions are done for pregnancies that were 100% preventable if the two parties just abstained, I don't see how the left can object to this solution.

No, your compromise is retarded because it's a control freak fantasy that would never happen irl. Abstinence based education does not work. People like to fuck. Millions of years of evolution have drilled in our brains that having sex is one of the main goals of life. So if you want to abolish casual sex, you'll have to use some draconian government control, or it won't work. Tell me how you would implement this "compromise"? Would you tell teenagers to wait until marriage? Oops, already been tried, and it didn't work. Would you criminalize abortion? Already been tried, women will have unsafe abortions and end up dead.

I think most of the pro lifer extremists are just mad they don't get laid enough and take it out on women because they're true misogynists. Seethe more, incel.