The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[ABE LINN COHN]

Would you tell teenagers to wait until marriage? Oops, already been tried, and it didn't work.

Worked pretty well until the sexual revolution

 

[Vulva Gape]

Because they can't feed their degenerative sex addiction. They're more than willing to come up with bullshit or quote "muh science" without actually bringing in any sources to back up their points to justify killing unborn children so they can fuck more.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

No, your compromise is retarded because it's a control freak fantasy that would never happen irl.

"Let's encourage people to not have sex until they're in a good position to potentially have children if it comes to that!"
"OH MY GOODNESS THIS GUY WANTS TO CONTROL PEOPLE'S GENITALS AND STUFF!"

Millions of years of evolution have drilled in our brains that having sex is one of the main goals of life.

Specifically, procreation.

It's wild that you're appealing to evolution while advocating the retention of a system that works against what we were supposedly drilled to do for millions of years.

So if you want to abolish casual sex, you'll have to use some draconian government control, or it won't work.

How did we get from "watch out for the gays, they're pedophiles" to gay marriage being federally legalized?

What's going on is that your flimsy argument needs that the only option to enact the proposed vision be draconian control, when obviously there's a variety of potential solutions with varying levels of success.

Would you criminalize abortion? Already been tried, women will have unsafe abortions and end up dead.

Which means that less people will be willing to get an abortion, period. Not that I'd argue for a criminalization of abortion, given the limited circumstances in which it's justified-- however, my goals of less dead babies would also be accomplished by a straight criminalization of abortion. Problem is that that's an incomplete solution that doesn't get to the heart of the matter which is that we've severely devalued sex and life itself, which means that while we may end up with less dead babies, we may end up with more orphaned kids without adequate means to take care of them all-- another issue to be rectified.

I think most of the pro lifer extremists are just mad they don't get laid enough and take it out on women because they're true misogynists.

I think you think that because you've debased yourself into being a hole.

 

[Vulva Gape]

"Let's encourage people to not have sex until they're in a good position to potentially have children if it comes to that!"

You're just mad that I didn't pull out when I fucked your mom last night.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

You're just mad that I didn't pull out when I fucked your mom last night.

The last refuge of people with no real argument: childish insults.

I think most of the pro lifer extremists are just mad they don't get laid enough and take it out on women because they're true misogynists. Seethe more, incel.

I find it funny how you people constantly talk about how pro-lifers are obsessed with other people having sex...while constantly throwing around sex based insults as if they're supposed to win you the argument. The only thing those insults do is make it clear you've lost the argument because your only recourse is to attack someone else's sexual history...a history you can't possibly know, making your insult dubious at best and just plain stupid at worst. Its the argument of mental children.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

You're demeaning another user dismissively and in bad faith by making her mental illness sound much worse than it perceivably is. Hell you can't even tell how unhinged you come across right now so stop judging other people's state of mind.

Nobody has demeaned her. She has demeaned herself, outright stating that she wished she was aborted, and stating in way too much detail how much her life sucks and how mentally unhealthy she is. She has literally said she'd rather try induce Fetal Alcohol syndrome in her own child than just have it and give it up for adoption. She has given more than enough information to judge her current state of mind as unhealthy, and has actively made it clear that it is.

 

[Vulva Gape]

What's so wrong about "killing" unborn babies? Really. Can you make an argument that isn't based around "muh degeneracy" or religion? It's a bean that doesn't even have a consciousness, yes, I will kill it 100%.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Can you make an argument that isn't based around "muh degeneracy" or religion?

Yes, and multiple people have throughout this thread. You want the arguments, you can go back and read them. Just talking about myself, I've already made the argument that the child is a separate living being, as defined by science, and would thus have the same basic rights as another human being. You want the arguments, there is a search function for a reason. Search the thread for my name.

It's a bean that doesn't even have a consciousness

This entire consciousness argument has already been shot down by @Zarael across multiple posts.

 

[Android raptor]

Worked pretty well until the sexual revolution

Actually it didn't, teens fucked plenty and if they got pregnant they either got shipped off to homes for unwed mothers or had to play Russian roulette with illegal abortion. Girls with rich parents could probably pay a doctor to do it under the table, but other girls were fucked. It was taboo to talk about openly, but it absolutely happened.

Fun fact: in Ireland especially the (catholic run) homes for unwed mothers were notorious for actual, honest to god baby killing. Mass graves have been unearthed with hundreds, sometimes thousands of dead babies. Women who survived the homes have talked about suffering horrible abuse at them.

Also since we've all established I'm fucking crazy I'm still not sure why anyone thinks that if god forbid I got pregnant I should be forced to gestate and birth the thing, even though we've established nothing good will come from that route. And that my hypothetical fetus is always a "he"

 

[ABE LINN COHN]

Actually it didn't, teens fucked plenty and if they got pregnant they either got shipped off to homes for unwed mothers or had to play Russian roulette with illegal abortion. Girls with rich parents could probably pay a doctor to do it under the table, but other girls were fucked. It was taboo to talk about openly, but it absolutely happened.

Fun fact: in Ireland especially the (catholic run) homes for unwed mothers were notorious for actual, honest to god baby killing. Mass graves have been unearthed with hundreds, sometimes thousands of dead babies. Women who survived the homes have talked about suffering horrible abuse at them.

Also since we've all established I'm fucking crazy I'm still not sure why anyone thinks that if god forbid I got pregnant I should be forced to gestate and birth the thing, even though we've established nothing good will come from that route. And that my hypothetical fetus is always a "he"

You should be put in an asylum far away from any potential sexual partners

 

[Nom Carver]

What's so wrong about "killing" unborn babies? Really. Can you make an argument that isn't based around "muh degeneracy" or religion? It's a bean that doesn't even have a consciousness, yes, I will kill it 100%.

If you kill off all of your young then you're going to die out.

 

[Android raptor]

If you kill off all of your young then you're going to die out.

Everyone is going to die someday but an abortion carried out under the supervision of trained medical professionals is extremely unlikely to kill you. In fact it's actually 11 times safer to have an abortion in the US than to give birth.

You can have many abortions and still live to a ripe old age.

 

[Nom Carver]

Everyone is going to die someday but an abortion carried out under the supervision of trained medical professionals is extremely unlikely to kill you. In fact it's actually 11 times safer to have an abortion in the US than to give birth.

You can have many abortions and still live to a ripe old age.

No dumbass, I mean the entire race. In evolutionary terms, killing your young or disregarding their safety and well being is a bad idea.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

The entire abortion debate hinges on that adjacent point?

No, it hinges on whether the subject of abortion is actually a human being. This is what I'm talking about when I said that you're unaware of the state of the discussion.

Before you talk about whether abortion should be legal, you need to talk about what's being done. Are you discarding of a mere clump of cells, or are you terminating a human life?

If the former, then on moral grounds, it doesn't matter. If the latter, then it's semantically identical to killing or murder.

A conversation on abortion typically goes nowhere because this matter isn't settled before the bulk of the argument is undertaken-- one, for example, argues that abortion should be legal because its prohibition is an undue restriction on the woman's body and personal autonomy (let's ignore that another person will be involved in the abortion-- the surgeon). That the fetus isn't human, or otherwise has no rights, is a given in this argument. Ideally, an argument about abortion would begin and mostly be about whether the fetus is human in the first place, because we recognize murder as wrong already.

If you're going to appeal to the above-mentioned intuitions you may as well start talking about the sanctity of sperm or the ova

It's baffling how you can read so intelligently yet still be simple in your rationales. Being unable to tell the difference between gametes and a zygote is pretty damning.

You're demeaning another user dismissively and in bad faith by making her mental illness sound much worse than it perceivably is.

She said she would drink hard enough to either kill her child in the womb or give it a host of congenital illnesses so severe that it'd die shortly after birth. She's said herself that she's a fucked up person. Because I've stated that single mother households are generally detrimental to the growth of its children because of-- among other factors-- the stress of all parental duties converging on the sole mother and because I asserted that the father has responsibility for the child, she's accused me of calling single mothers "evil". I've been repeatedly accused, for reasons perhaps beyond human understanding, of only being pro-life because I want to punish women with pregnancy for not having sex with me, no matter how much I've stated that my desire is for a cultural shift against the institution of abortion. Just now, she accused me of calling women pigs because I stated that women who kill their children out of desire rather than necessity are worse than sows because sows have the excuse of being a beast of the field.

Get your head out of your ass and actually achieve competency in any of the prerequisite topics for this discussion, including the actual discussion. The vitriol I direct towards her is perfectly justified, because it's not even coming from the fact that we disagree on a stark issue-- it's because she repeatedly exposes herself as a reprehensible individual while arguing in bad faith.

The vitriol I have towards you is justified because you're so out of your depth you can't even tell the difference between a gamete and a zygote as though you were a high schooler, and you have no idea what is going on in this conversation despite the fact that you repeatedly comment on it.

 

[Muh Vagina]

@Zero Day Defense thinks that birth control encourages promiscuity. Just sayin'.

The way I see it, the left is proposing a solution to the problem that is morally abhorrent to the other side, that is, what the other side views as murder. The right is proposing a solution that shouldn't be seen as nearly as objectionable to the other side, that is, abstinence and personal responsibility. Therefore, as a compromise that should satisfy both sides, abortion should be banned and abstinence encouraged. When 99% of abortions are done for pregnancies that were 100% preventable if the two parties just abstained, I don't see how the left can object to this solution.

My bodily autonomy is more important than that of a nonsentient blob.

Here's my compromise: if you don't like abortion, don't have one.

 

[ABE LINN COHN]

Here's my compromise: if you don't like abortion, don't have one.

"Don't like murder? Don't commit one."

 

[Vulva Gape]

If you really think your chaste pipedream will ever happen with the American population, just remember WAP was the #1 song a couple months ago. Once you pornify a culture, you never go back. Cheers!

 

[Nom Carver]

This is an abortion thread and pro-lifers are aborting it over personal grievances, neat.

@Zero Day Defense Your argument against abortion is like a fishing net without a trout: It's stringed together from every possible aspect and detail of the fetal development but does not capture the moment when a fetus becomes a "human being". Accordingly, I may argue for any stage (or component) of conception to be the starting point of human life, sperm cells included. For all its complexity your argument is simply redundant. I'm also unsure what's wrong about @Android raptor disclosing her mental wellbeing within the confines of this thread. Everything she says is meant to convey that, in her own case, an abortion is better than her being pregnant. You can't simply dismiss her for a loon when history is ripe with such cases. Also, as @Muh Vagina's link suggests, you may be more politically radical than you are letting on, in which case good faith is as good as nonexistent here.

It's posts like these that really make me want the autistic rating back.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

@Zero Day Defense thinks that birth control encourages promiscuity. Just sayin'.

...yes. If you can significantly reduce the risk of consequences for engaging in a particular activity that you otherwise like to do, then it only makes sense that you'll now do more of that activity.

This isn't even a gotcha. Anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature would be able to understand this. Now, pointing out that you're unironically pro-feticide (and not in a cutesy, "pro-choicers are the real racist murderers" way, but in a "you don't care about bodily autonomy if someone exercises it to preserve the life of their offspring so they can ensure it has the best life he can" way)-- that's a gotcha.

It's stringed together from every possible aspect and detail of the fetal development but does not capture the moment when a fetus becomes a "human being".

From conception, as all the components that I invoke in proof of the fetus' life exist from the moment that the egg is fertilized. The issue isn't that the answer wasn't already there, but that you're defaulting to stock answers instead of engaging with what's been said.

 

[Vulva Gape]

1. Life begins at conception.
2. Abortion purposefully ends a life.

If I were to concede these points and believe they are true, I would still argue that abortion is the moral option. I don't think being alive is anything special. If you gestate a baby knowing that you don't want it, and prolong its suffering just because you thought it immoral to terminate the pregnancy, that causes more suffering and harm overall. If a woman does not want to go through the extreme and possibly dangerous consequences of becoming pregnant, she still has the choice about her own body. I put more worth into the fully conscious, remembering being than the one that hasn't entered the world yet.